Need help with Browning BPCR 45/70.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have had one of these for several years now, but have hardly used it. I shot about 20-30 rounds of jacketed bullets which I had in stock not long after getting it and about 10 rounds of Black Powder paper patched boolits. I have been on the road withwork since and have not had the opportunity to cast for it.

I know I should have run the barrel in, but at the time, had only heard of running in stainless Bbls.

What should I do now regarding running in or just get out there and shoot the sucker?

If I realised at the time that it had a Badger bbl, I would have genuflected before using it.

Mick.

[45 2.1]

I got one of these when they first came out and tested it extensively. The first thing you need to do is slug the throat. The barrel on mine seems to be larger than the normal run of the mill. I used a 0.462" boolit to get it shooting correctly with smokeless. Get a boolit mold that fits your barrel and shoot it. It does not need broken in.

[Nazgul]

The Badger barrel on mine has lived up to its reputation. The smoothest bore I have ever seen. Mine has many thousands of cast BP bullets through it. Never had a jacketed bullet down the bore, but have used smokeless from time to time. It is still very smooth and accurate. Best I have done is 10 shots at 300 yds into 7" with black powder of course.

My opinion is that Badger barrels are so well finished that they don't need much breaking in. I just found the best shooting cast bullet, the Lyman 500 gr RN, and practiced with it.

[McLintock]

I've had one for several years now and shoot it both in Cowboy Action Long Range side matches and NRA BPCR Silhouette. Like 45 2.1 said, you'd do well to slug it, as everyone will tell you that a .45 Cal Badger barrel is .458, but I got .459 on mine and I've read where others have also. I shoot .460 bullets in it from a Steve Brooks 540 Creedmore mould and it does really well, if I do my part.
Everything I've read has said to "season" your barrel and I think even Badger says to do so in their instructions. The procedure is to fire a couple of rounds and clean it, fire two or three more and clean again, and keep increasing the number between cleanings until you've got up to fifty or so rounds through it. This is supposed to get all the pores filled and any filings or rough spots smoothed out for the serious work. It's just me, but now I don't even fire any smokeless loads at all in mine, just black powder only in order to maintain a constant seasoning; don't know if this helps, but it makes me feel better.
McLintock

[bobthenailer]

in my browning 45/70 BPCR after 500 rounds down range with 2 different saeco cast bullets a # 017 a 350 gr gc and a # 020 a 540 grgc bullet and every recommended powder for the 45/70 except black powder , i found the magic load! saeco 540 gr gc , cast from ww + 2 % tin , sized to 0.459 dia ,in starline brass, fed lr primers, cases neck sized, and lightly taper crimped to straighten up flaring, 50 gr acurrate arms MR 3100 which is slightly compressed with bullet when seated to correct col to engage rifleing on loading , 25 shots in 2 1/4 inches at 200 yards with a 6.5x 20 leupold. if i remember this is about 1350 fps without looking at my records ,with the 540 gr bullet you will have to shoot at least 200 yards for the bullet to stablize, the 350 will be ok at 100 yards. good luck bob

[Bigjohn]

Everything I've read has said to "season" your barrel and I think even Badger says to do so in their instructions. The procedure is to fire a couple of rounds and clean it, fire two or three more and clean again, and keep increasing the number between cleanings until you've got up to fifty or so rounds through it. This is supposed to get all the pores filled and any filings or rough spots smoothed out for the serious work. It's just me, but now I don't even fire any smokeless loads at all in mine, just black powder only in order to maintain a constant seasoning; don't know if this helps, but it makes me feel better.
McLintock

Damn, must've missed that section in the Destruction book (Instruction book) when I got my Browning BPCR 45/70.:roll:
I have shot about 120 rounds through my rifle of smokeless and blackpowder loads. All were CAST only. On the 50 metre pistol target at about 90 metres I can 'chew' the centre out of the target; mainly the nine and ten rings; this is with the aperture sights as supplied.

I had and have heard about seasoning a barrel as well as various methods of doing the same but never did it to any of my rifles.

I use (NOW) Winchester cases, primed with Federal 215 Magnum Rifle primers, charged with as much GOEX 2fg powder as I can trickle in behind the projectile which is the LYMAN Schmitter 457658, cast from ww's, and still load the round into the chamber. The only variation to the powder charge depends whether or not I compress the charge or drop tube it. I place a .5" diam milkcarton wad between the powder and the projectile.

I have on one target placed these projectiles through one hole measuring .459" by .700". Someone saw the second shot go through the hole made by the first, via a scope, otherwise it would have been declared a miss, the third shot opened the hole up to the finished group size.

John:castmine:

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yeah dang it I gotta get moving on this. I have a sweet looking Postell style (whatever that is) boolit mould which was made by Cast Bullet Engineering in Sydney. Apparently it drops about 530gns. I can't remember the exact group size with jacketed at 100yds, but it was around 1" and as good as most of my hunting bolt guns with scopes attached. Mick.

[McLintock]

Hey Bigjohn, I didn't say anything about it being in the instruction book for the rifle, I said that Badger, and probably Green Mountain and many other custom barrel makers recommend seasoning it before using it for serious work. Also, if you're serious about your group sizes try shooting some10 shot groups at 2-300 yards and posting the results, if they'er still MOA or under you'll really impress me and probably a lot of others.
McLintock

[Bigjohn]

McLintock; Down where I live, we don't have access to the information on a lot of things to do with shooting, both information and equipment.
The internet here is on dail up, no broadband capability available and some of the oldest copper wire phone lines in Australia (I have a permanent noise on my phone line which they can not fix and very slow downloads).
I meant no offence by quoting your posting and should have posted the 'chain' next to my comment. After struggling for years with little information on the subject of BPCR, the internet has been of great assistance with increasing my knowledge of the sport and methods.
I am especially indedted to this forum and it's members for their assistance in helping increase my knowledge.

I agree with your comment about posting a group shot over a longer distance and I would love to do it. My problem is range availablity. The club which I shoot with can only manage 90 metres. Clubs in this area which have longer ranges can be so tied up with Insurance and National rule issues that they don't want to know about anything different to their discipline. Hence I make do and improve my abilities as best I can within the limitations of the clubs range.

The group I mentioned is one shot at the end of the day with the last of the rounds I had with me and IMHO it would have been interesting to have continued shooting to see what would have developed from these initial three shots.

Normal groups for me with aperture sights and either the Browning or the Pedersoli run in the 1.5" to 2.0" region. Most of the problems with the accuracy from the rifle is due to the loadings and I know I have a lot more work to do to improve the constitency. I am still using up my supply of powder bought some twenty years ago for M/Ls.

On behalf of the BPCR shooters in my club, I am negoiating with a landowner two hours drive north of here for permission to do some private shooting. Whether or not we get this permission will depend on his interest in our sport.

John.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Where are you at Big John? I am at Muswellbrook in the Hunter Valley in NSW.

I belong to the Mudgee SSAA club and they have a pretty spoofy range at Ilford. Cowboy shoot coming up, might be able to squeeze some BPCR in.

[Bigjohn]

Mick; The lower south east of south australia, 26k south west of Mt. Gambier on the Limestone coast.

John.

[McLintock]

No problem, and no offense taken, just wanted to clarify that it's basically a personal choice of each rifle owner on whether to season or not, but the actual makers recommend it. Sounds like it's about as hard to find a place to shoot long distances there in Australia as it is here. Most local type shooting ranges are limited to 100 yards and one has to go out and find a place, usually on Federal land to shoot at longer distances, at least here in the western U.S. I've been lucky and have found places in Flagstaff, Az where I lived for over 30 years, and now here in Prescott, Az, where I currently live, on National Forest land. I've been able to shoot at my leisure almost, at least duing the weekdays, out to 4-500 yards, with nobody to bother me.
Good luck with your Browning and hope you keep shooting those MOA groups in the future.
McLintock

[Bigjohn]

Mick and McLintock,

Yes it can be difficult to find a place with long range abilities, it is three and a half to four hours driving to the nearest SSAA range with capablities. At least we would be able to do a round trip in one day and have a decent shoot on the private property. One thing we have going for us is this fellow is also a shooter, just trying to convince him to convert to BPCR.

The grouping of shots I mentioned in my previous entry was as much a shock to me at the time but in my mind it showed me that the rifle can shoot if all else falls into place (loads, me and weather conditions). I will state here that I will have much to learn when we can extend the distance over which we can shoot.

I believe that with the number of shots already through the barrel it would be too late to season the barrel or would there be any value in cleaning thoroughly and seasoning the barrel now?

McLintock; a question off topic to you. Family history of your name, scotish? I worked one time with a McClintock.

John.

[August]

BREAK-IN PROCEDURE FOR BARRELS-Jacked bullets

For the first ten shots we recommend, if possible, using jacketed bullets with a nitro powder load. Clean the oil out of the barrel before each shot using something as simple as Windex which will soak the oil out of the pores. After firing each bullet use a good copper cleaner (one with ammonia) to remove the copper fouling from the barrel. We do not recommend anything with an abrasive in it since you are trying to seal the barrel, not keep it agitated.

After cleaning with bore cleaner, clean with Windex after each shot. Use Windex because many bore cleaner use a petroleum base which you want to remove before firing the next shot. This will keep the carbon from building up in the barrel (oil left in the pores, when burned, turns to carbon).

To keep the temperature cool in the barrel, wait at least 5 minutes between break-in shots. The barrel must remain cool during the break-in procedure. If the barrel is allowed to heat up during the break-in, it will destroy the steel's ability to develop a home registration point, or memory. It will have a tendency to make the barrel "walk" when it heats up in the future. I am sure we all have seen barrels that, as they heat up, start to shoot high and then "walk" to the right. This was caused by improperly breaking in the barrel (generally by sitting at a bench rest and shooting 20 rounds in 5 minutes or so). Then, for the rest of the guns life the man complains that barrel is no good. If you take a little time in the beginning and do it right, you will be much more pleased with the barrel in the future.

If you look into the end of the barrel after firing a shot, you will see a light copper-colored wash in the barrel. Remove this before firing the next shot. Somewhere in the procedure, around shot 6 or 7, it will be obvious that the copper color is no longer appearing in the barrel. Continue applications through shot 10.

If you have any ammunitions left, you then may shoot 2 rounds and clean it for the next 10 shots. this is simply insuring that the burnishing process has been completed.

IN theory you are closing the pores of the barrel metal which have been opened and exposed through the cutting and hand lapping procedures.

BREAK-IN PROCEDURE FOR BARRELS-Lead bullets

The same shooting-cleaning process may be used when firing lead bullets and black powder with this exception: shoot 2 bullets, then clean for the first 30 rounds. Naturally, you will use a cleaner appropriate for black powder. You can also use harder lead if available to accelerate the break in. This will accomplish the same as the jacketed bullets.

It may take 80 to 100 rounds to break in with lead. That is why we recommend using jacketed bullets when possible. After this procedure, your barrel's interior surface will be sealed and should shoot cleaner and develop less fouling for the rest of its shooting life.

[felix]

Sounds very good, August. It appears the best time to break in a barrel would be at sunrise on the coldest day of the year, after leaving the gun in the trunk of the car all night. In fact, some of the best sillywet shooters always leave the gun in the car. His insurance agent know this too, in case the car is stolen, broken into, or crashed. Must have an insurance agent to cover these things, and those with discretionary cash do. This means this cash can be used for anything the agent desires in terms of any insured loss without claims folks getting involved. For example, the State Farm agents have a 5K immediate allocation without claims being called. ... felix