.404 Jeffery and the NEI 421-390GC

[BruceB]

The rifle is a Cogswell & Harrison-built standard Mauser '98, 3-leaf express sights, 21" straight-taper barrel. It has a Weaver K-1.5X scope mounted, with post reticle. It's still well under nine pounds WITH scope. That Decelerator pad works overtime, lemme tell y'all.

The bullet: 398 grains semi-roundnose, straight wheelweight alloy, water-quenched from the mould, casts at .421", sized at .419", Hornady .44 gaschecks, Felix lube in all grooves.

Cases: Remington .375 UltraMags, sized and fireformed to become .404 Jeffery brass. Works great at a fraction of the cost of .404 brass. CCI 200s supplied the spark.

On the previous thread about "biting the bullet", I detailed the first loads, which used XMP5744 powder.

Today, I fired a series of loads with 2400 at the lighter end, and with H4895 on the higher-powered end. Accuracy was not all that great, but not all that bad, either. I may mount a higher-powered glass just for load development, and one event gave me some pause today with this 1.5-power scope. Somewhere in the middle of all the shooting, I noticed that the crosswire had MOVED UP to become absolutely flush with the top of the post, whereas it's normally in a position where the post projects noticeably above the crosswire. Where to aim, and with what???? A few shots later and it was back in normal position, where it remained for the rest of the outing. This MAY have had some effect on a group or two, but I don't know for sure.

2400 loads, WITH and WITHOUT dacron:

26.0 2400, NO FILLER: 1314 average, 36 extreme spread, 15 standard deviation, 1.1"/5rds/50 yards

26.0 2400 WITH DACRON: 1338 fps, 17 es, 0.6"/4rds/50.....one hangfire gave only 1244 fps and dropped well out of the group, so I disregarded it. The .416 Rigby also gave me some hangfires with 2400 until the stuff started burning better with heavier loads. Note that this hangfire occurred with a dacron tuft in the case....that surprised me a bit.

28.0 2400, NO FILLER: 1374 av, 45 es, 15 sd, 2.0"/5/50

28.0 2400 WITH DACRON: 1421 av, 44 es, 17 sd, 1.4"/5/50

30.0 2400 NO FILLER: lost readings, 1.5"/5/50

30.0 2400 WITH DACRON: 1461 av, 34 es, 14 sd, 1.1"/5/50

32.0 2400, NO FILLER: 1499 av, 41 es, 14 sd, 0.9"/5/50


The H4895 series:

ALL loads used dacron except the very last one with 60.0 grains of 4895.

50.0 H4895: 1686 av, 71 es, 26 sd, 1.1"/5/50

52.0 H4895: 1753 av, 95 es, 37 sd, 1.7"/5/50

54.0 H4895: 1823 av, 34 es, 12 sd, 1.8"/4/50 with a low uncalled flyer.

56.0 H4895: 1855 av, 30 es, 14 sd, 1.1"/5/50

58.0 H4895: 1939 av, 23 es, 9 sd, 2"/5/50

60.0 H4895: 1991 av, 17 es, 7 sd, 1.2"/5/50

60.0 H4895 NO FILLER: 1958 av, 54 es, 21 sd, 2.0"/5/50.....compare with 60.0 with dacron immediately above.

I felt myself to be on very safe ground with these loads, particularly in the case of 4895. I have loaded MUCH heavier charges of H4895 than those above, with both Barnes Original 400-grain jacketed bullets and their 400-grain X-Bullets, both at .423" diameter (in my .4185" bore!!!!) At the 60.0 charge level, the primers were just barely starting to show any flattening at all...before that, they were all very rounded in contour after firing. My brass should last forever at these pressure levels.

I think the dacron is showing its benefits to a degree, although not with the startling results I've seen in other combos.

Lots more to come. I'm sure enjoying getting this old rifle out for some exercise with a proper cast boolit, and I'm even remembering to keep my tongue where it belongs without any painful reminders from the rifle...

[NVcurmudgeon]

Bruce, it sure looks like 2400 was too low pressure in that cavernous case, until you got in the higher part of the range. The H4895 looks very promising, as well as delivering closer to respectable factory loads. It's early days, but the old C&H looks well on the way to being a real CB thumper. Keep the reports coming!

[Buckshot]

...............Neat work so far Bruce! 4198 is a nice powder to try if you have some. Try it starting where you left off with 2400.

...............Buckshot

[BruceB]

Days-off, and time to play (at least, before the days heat up, toward noon-hour!)

I pushed the NEI 421-390 a bit harder today with 5744, and the accuracy went right down the tube.The loads were 52.0 and 54.0 grains with dacron.

52.0 grains: 2088 average, 6 extreme spread (yes, SIX fps!) std deviation 2 fps. However, the "group', using the term literally loosely, was 6.2" for five rounds at fifty yards, and three boolits were clearly tipping. Yikes.

54.0 grains duplicated the British factory load for ballistics: 2148 av, 49 es, 19 sd....and a shotgun pattern of 8.6" for five from 50 yards. One boolit keyholed, showing almost a full bullet-profile hole, and two others were obviously unstable. Not good at all, although pressures were still moderate, primers not flattening to any degree and extraction was still easy.

The other series fired today used IMR 4198, all loads with dacron fill.

44.0 4198: 1762 av, 28 es, 11 sd, 1.0"/9/50 with an uncalled low flyer 2" out of the group ( at least this time there WAS a "group").

46.0 4198: 1821 av, 35 es, 12 sd, and a loosey-goosey group of 1.8"/10/50.

48.0 4198: 1872 av, 56 es, 17 sd, grouping 0.6"/8/50 and two tipping low flyers about an inch or so out.

50.0 4198: 1918 av, 21 es, 7 sd and 1.4"/9/50 with an uncalled flyer up out of the group.

52.0 4198: 1987 av, 21 es, 7 sd and 1.1"/8/50 with two tipping fliers taking the total group size out to 4.7"

The 5744 loads at today's level are clearly beyond the point of usefulness. 4198 was quite encouraging, as I had several of the above groups with six to eight rounds in single-ragged-hole impacts. I'm commencing to wonder if sizing the boolits (actually just lubing) in my .424" die instead of sizing at .419 might help with these tippers. As-cast diameter is about .421".

I changed the scope on the rifle, from the Weaver K-1.5x to a Leupold 2-7X with fine crosshairs and dot. MUCH better sight picture, using the benchrest-type hollow black squares for aiming marks. I have a lot more faith in the results with the better visibility through the Leupold. Hope my wife doesn't notice that I borrowed the sight from her .270.

Those first 4198 loads, fired after the 5744 recipes, were verily like maiden's kisses compared to the 2150 fps jobs. 300 to 400 additional feet-per-second make a BIG difference when driving 400-grain boolits! I was mighty glad to finish up the seventy rounds fired today....

[NVcurmudgeon]

Bruce, it is good to see that you are doing your testing of tembo loads in hot weather. That has been my practice for some time. I have worked up some very accurate high velocity loads in cool weather, only to have them pattern about improved cylinder when fired in summer heat. Going the other way, I always found that if it shoots in July, it is usually OK in winter. The 4198 loads are looking real good.

[Frank46]

BruceB, gotta get ready for them charging prarie dogs huh?. Sounds like fun. Sure will be awhile before the bbl needs replacing with the cast bullets. Have fun, Frank

[BruceB]

A few days back, I sat down with all the results from my loading and shooting of the NEI .404 bullet, and did some serious one-man think-tanking. A few things seemed to give indications of where to go next, and I applied those factors in the next set of loads.

I can now say that I'm happy with results achieved today, and will likely adopt two of the loads fired a couple hours ago as my "standards" for the .404 and the NEI 421-390GC.

The tipping of bullets has ceased even at factory-load levels (2150 fps), and I strongly suspect that it stopped because I was firing un-sized .421" boolits instead of ones sized at .419".

Getting out early this morning to beat the heat, I fired three shoot-and-adjust rounds to get a fifty-yard zero with the following load:

The NEI 400 grain 421-390 was unsized at approximately .421" on all bands except the front one, which is .423". 48.0 grains of IMR 4198, dacron tuft, CCI 200 primer, gave these results:

1883 fps average, 26 extreme spread, 7 std deviation. Since the third sighter was absolutely dead-center on the target, I fired four more rounds to keep it company. Those five rounds form a perfectly-round group of 0.9" at 50 yards. Hombres, that's good enough for me.

To cover the "need" for a higher-powered load, I made up ten rounds with 60.0 grains of H4895. Five had dacron, and five didn't.

WITH dacron: 2090 av, 43 es, 16 sd. 4 rounds in 0.7" and a called "misteak" an inch out at 8:00.

WITHOUT dacron: 2020 av, 71 es, 26 sd, and four in 1.1" with a similar "misteak" an inch out at 8:00. In the no-dacron loads, three of the five rounds had perceptible but FAST hangfires.......they went "cli-BOOM!", with barely enough time to register that it hadn't worked quite right. Under those conditions, I'm kinda tickled that my follow-through still allowed the rounds to group decently.

Anyway, the 60.0/4895 will be my go-to load for near-factory duplication. It will of course use dacron, and I think I may use a magnum primer just in case, keeping those marginal hangfires in mind.

I was shooting at benchrest-style hollow black squares, and all eight of the rounds included in the two groups did NOT touch any black paper whatever, being completely inside the 2" white squares inside the black boxes. These are .42-caliber boolits, and I believe that's pretty decent accuracy.

The 60.0 loads also had a rather heavy crimp, which I normally never apply. I found that the .300 RUM and .338 RUM cases, when necked up to .404 Jeffery shape, have neck walls too thin for good bullet retention (when sizing in the .404 Jeffery sizing die). In the .338 and .300 cases, I could easily move the bullet with my fingers, with the .300s being a bit looser, naturally. The .375 cases seem OK, but I crimped these rounds anyway and fed them from the full magazine. Due to the crimp, no bullets receded under recoil.

There are a couple of options. The .404 case necks can be sized about 2/3 of their length in the .416 Rigby sizer if I just HAVE to use the thin-necked brass. However, I'm going to put the .300 and .338 brass aside for future emergency needs, and stick with the .375 brass. I'm also going to dress the .404 expander down another couple of thousandths to tighten the fit. The crimp certainly didn't seem to hurt anything, and I'll likely continue using it IN THIS CARTRIDGE, but only because of the severe recoil. Apart from this one example, and a few other specialized situations, I'm no fan of crimping rifle cartridges.

I'm calling this project, and this bullet design, a success. Thanks for your patience with my long-winded posts.

[Buckshot]

.................BruceB, "I'm calling this project, and this bullet design, a success. Thanks for your patience with my long-winded posts."

............You're posts are interesting and informative, even to those of us not blessed with a .404 or a .416 :-). Always interesting to read experimantal reloading data and results. Especially when it ends on a positive note.

.................Buckshot

[BruceB]

Kind words, Rick! Thank you.

I was just out back cranking out another 150 rounds of experimental 7.62 NATO loads, and the thought struck me that I really should see if the .404 will shoot the cast 400 as fast and as accurately as it does the 400-grain X-bullet and Barnes Originals (copper-tubing jacket).

Frankly, I decided that I've had enough of the clamp-the-teeth-and-it's-really-not- that-bad-BLAAAAMMM!!!! (yes, it IS that bad on the bench), at least for a while. The high-performance stuff can wait until I build a standing rest for the van. With this boolit, "high performance" should mean somewhere in the area of 2400-2500 fps. The "Ruger Rigby" has given me well over 2600 fps with the RCBS 416-350, which is more of the same sort of "fun". 300-grain X-Bullets, driven by a confidential "over 100 grains" of IMR 4831, have left the muzzle at 2990, and what a long-range elk load THAT would be.... 300 Maggie muzzle energy, but at 300 yards! Whiplash and detaching retinas (and shoulders) are a definite possibility, though. I would never, ever, try shooting that load from prone position.

Thanks again for the nice sentiments.