Aluminum in a bore ????!!!

[buck1]

Ok guys a simple question with a hard answer.
Will aluminum harm a bore when fired through it?
Aluminum gas checks, swaged jackets from Blazer cases , Is the reason for my question.
we have all seen threads that talk about aluminum oxcide used in sand paper. A good point, but at the sane time they make dimonds from graphite, plastic from oil, We shoot paper patched boolits , paper will dull a knife fairly quickly.
And, How would you clean aluminum fouling from a fired bbl? Aluminum solivent?

I dont want to hurt my guns but I hate the thought of not useing a cheep easily gotten resource ?
These questions keep poping up in my head and I cant forget agout them (try as I may). We have some great minds here, someone here has got to KNOW the answer to this.
Thanks in advance....Buck

[BerdanIII]

I don't think you could harm the bore with a metal that's softer. Hanned Precision used to make a tool for forming gas checks from aluminum cans and plate called FreeChec that was tested and reviewed in The Fouling Shot. No one mentioned aluminum fouling; they were more concerned with whether the gas checks could make the trip down the bore and if they helped prevent leading. Low material cost was unimportant if aluminum couldn't stand the strain.

How are you able to form jackets from Blazer cases? I have read that aluminum work-hardens like crazy and that Blazer cases can't (or shouldn't) be reloaded because most of them will split on the second firing.

[Gunfixer]

IIRC Winchester silvertip pistol bullets are aluminum jacketed

[Trey45]

Winchester Silvertips are indeed aluminum.

[Jim]

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought Winchester Silver Tips are brass jacketed with an aluminum tip over a lead filler.

[Gunfixer]

The rifle bullets have the aluminum tip. The Pistol bullets are all aluminum

[Eutectic]

Winchester Silvertips are indeed aluminum.

SOME.... of the Winchester pistol/revolver Silvertips are aluminum jacketed plus THEY ARE LUBRICATED. Other Winchester handgun Silvertips (Usually hotter loaded ones like .357, .44 Mag) are in fact guilding metal jackets plated with nickel or cupronickel for the 'silver' look.

Rifle calibers in Silvertip have an aluminum tip or cap covering the lead nose. Now if you really want to get confused, when Silvertips first came out decades ago, the silver cap was cupronickel!!!!!!

A bullet make from aluminum Blazer casings would need some type of bullet lube added. Enough that lube grooves would be needed like a cast boolit!! I think it a bad idea personally...

Eutectic

[JIMinPHX]

I've used aluminum gas checks. I've made them out of flashing & I've made them out of aluminum beer bottles (not cans). They gave me no trouble shooting in a standard steel barrel. Accuracy was as good as copper GCs. There was no fouling. However, they fouled the living daylights out of a chrome lined barrel & the residue was VERY difficult to remove.

[Hickory]

I don’t think I’d ever use aluminum for gas checks.
Aluminum when it oxidizes or “rusts” produces aluminum oxidize,
This is a very hard material. The same thing that is used to make sand paper.
Aluminum gas checks may be ok if they are shot right away, I don’t think I (myself) would use them.
I’d search out a source of copper before I’d use aluminum.

[mnzrxer]

I don't have any input on whether or not aluminum would work as intended for a gas check, but if aluminum fouling did build up the easiest way to remove it would be with muriatic acid. I don't know what this might do to the finish of the gun however. I have used muriatic acid many times to remove aluminum from the cylinder walls of two stroke engines after seizing a piston. When on bare aluminum it bubbles and slowly dissolves the aluminum leaving the iron or plated cylinder clean.

[KCSO]

Muratic acid will remove blue and will etch steel if left in contact for a period of time. I use it to help clean out old military barrels that are hopelessly fouled and you really need to be carefull. I use to shoot a lot of 45 acp silvertips as they were our duty load and after 500 rounds i never noticed any fouling that a good cleaning with hoppe's didn't take out.

[StarMetal]

You castboolit fellows are amazing and worry too much about very insignificant things. The oxide that forms on the surface of aluminum is .0000001 mm thick or put another way 3.937 -09 inches. That last one is the number to the negative. We're talking about a very very very small oxide crystal. I doubt that would have any effect on the bore of a rifle at all. Paper patched bullets would be a lot worse. I can assure you that the abrasive manufacturers don't oxidize aluminum and scrap the oxide crystals off for such abrasives as sanding papers, etc..

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Folks who use aluminum beverage cans for making gas checks do not have to be concerned with the issue as the metal is coated before being used so that there is no contact with the air which contains oxygen. Anyone who has ever taken some course in general science has-or should have been-told that to get an oxide of any kind that you have to have access to Oxygen. The equation is very simple, no Oxygen=no oxide. Non coated aluminum would have to be exposed for a very long time to tarnish and whatever "oxydation" even when it took place would not produce any significant amount....certainly not enough to have any effect on the steel of a rifle or pistol barrel. The numbers given to us by Star Metal are so infinitely small that they could not be seen without the aid of an electron microscope. In your lifetime, no matter how many beverage can gas checks nor non coated aluminum gaschecks you send down the barrel there will be no effect on the steel in the barrel. If you still believe otherwise that is your choice, but a good compromise to counteract your fears or beliefs would be to keep the checks that you make in an airtight little jar until you put them on and seat them in the cartridge case. LLS

[HORNET]

Some people just gotta find stuff to worry about. There was a long-running argument on here a couple of years ago about antimony causing excessive barrel wear. Some people on other forums refuse to use alloys containing antimony, consider it to be a contaminant, and stick to the exclusive use of lead/tin alloys. Whatever floats your boat....
I really doubt that aluminum gas checks are going to be a major factor in eating your barrel. High pressure loads, fast shooting, and stainless bore brushes: possibly.

[felix]

The stainless bore brushes are great for all kinds of barrels. One warning: When they get flats across the coils, that is when they can be too aggressive and jerk off any flakey steel that would have been gone sooner or later anyway. So, as a general rule, do NOT use the stainless brushes when flats appear, and minimize that kind of occurrence by using these brushes only with a real slopy oil, and NOT with a watered down, intended type, bore cleaner oil like Ed's Red.

Also, aluminum's natural color is black. It oxidizes so fast, lightning fast actually, that it becomes silver almost immediately. Yes, the oxide is very thin, and stays thin in normal conditions. Because of this thinness, there can be no harm to barrels in one's lifetime. Heat is the only culprit, and elevated heat is made by shooting efficient burning powders for the load intended. ... felix

[HORNET]

I've got some stainless brushes from Faith Associates that aren't the loop type, they're made just like the bronze ones except from stainless. I tried one after I got a little leading in a .41 Mag Ruger barrel and after 10 passes it looked like it had steel wool in the bristles- it was shaving bits off the inside of the barrel. They're stored in a box where I don't grab them by mistake now.

P.S. Hokey-smoke! I got a silver boolit...- LOL

[buck1]

You guys are awsome! Thanks very much!!!I figured it would be ok , But could not bring myself to do it.....Buck

[Bad Water Bill]

If you want to see how abrasive an AL gas check is take a beer can and tell us how long it took to file ONE finger nail.

We are not going to wait more than 7 days.

[Molly]

I don't have any input on whether or not aluminum would work as intended for a gas check, but if aluminum fouling did build up the easiest way to remove it would be with muriatic acid. I don't know what this might do to the finish of the gun however. I have used muriatic acid many times to remove aluminum from the cylinder walls of two stroke engines after seizing a piston. When on bare aluminum it bubbles and slowly dissolves the aluminum leaving the iron or plated cylinder clean.

Aaaahh, no. Gotta disagree. The acid will mess up the finish of the bore and remove blueing as well. Use a dilute lye solution. It'll dissolve aluminum even faster, and won't affect steel or blueing at all.

[Bent Ramrod]

Sweet's 7.62 will take care of a thin layer of aluminum.

[Eutectic]

Molly may have the best idea for aluminum fouling... Aluminum is 'eaten' quite readily with caustic (or basic) type solutions. I'd go slow and easy though.

The secret of aluminum in a friction situation is lubrication. As mnzrxer told us the aluminum deposits in his motorcycle cylinder came from lack of lubrication.

I think our bullet lubricant is sufficient in most cases in the use of aluminum gaschecks as long as the amount doesn't get too 'sparse'. I wouldn't worry about wear too much either.... I've seen way too many aluminum sleeve or insert bearings last a mighty long time against a steel journal without wear to the journal. AGAIN WITH CORRECT LUBRICATION!

I have pulled bullets from the WW .45 Auto Silvertip load that was mentioned. It has a lube groove that has a black tar-like looking lube as a lubricant.... Velocities are not high either.... Faster loads are not aluminum jackets in the Silvertip handgun line. I can't say if the extra 'speed' is detrimental to fouling or over-expansion however.

Eutectic

[mnzrxer]

Aaaahh, no. Gotta disagree. The acid will mess up the finish of the bore and remove blueing as well. Use a dilute lye solution. It'll dissolve aluminum even faster, and won't affect steel or blueing at all.

As I mentioned, I wasn't sure what the acid would do to the finish, but it will remove the aluminum.

Eutectic is right about lubrication with aluminum. Unlubricated the aluminum would require about 30% more force to slide down the bore than copper. Thankfully a little lube makes a big difference.