45/70 TC Barrel Design

[Topper]

I've really wanted a 45/70 for quit some time.
This will be my first rifle barrel for my TC Contender.
Bullet weights will range from 300gr to 405gr unless there is a good reason to shoot heavier, and I want to shoot mostly cast?
I need advice on twist rate and optimum barrel length.
I believe I read somewhere that after a certain length, you actually loose velocity:coffee:
Considering a 24" barrel length unless longer will provide more velocity.
Totally new to this caliber, so experienced advice is greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[jhalcott]

Midway shows a 24" stainless barrel with a 1 in 20 twist.They have barrels with 1/16 and 1/18 twist also. That is a really light rifle to be shooting 400-500 grain chunks of lead thru. If you keep the speed down,I guess it won't kick too hard

[dragonrider]

I assume you are talking about a carbine, because the 24" barrel on the Contender with a handgun grip is illegal. With the shoulder stock it is not. Go figure. There is a 45-70 barrel for the contender as a handgun, I think it is 16"s. I can tell you not from experience but from watching someone else that it hurts alot. If fact he broke a bone in his hand, but he was shooting full house rifle loads. My advice would be to start light and work up. This is a very fun caliber because you can do alot with it. There are many loads and bullet types, therefore a lot of experimenting can be done.
I have a TCR 87 rifle with a 24" 45-70 barrel and sometimes I wish I had a compensator on it, it is a light rifle and with heavy loads you feeeeeeel it when recoils. But I LIIIIIKKKKKKEEEEE IT.
I also have a contender and a 30-30 barrel with a compensator and that is one comfortable shooter even with heavy loads. The recoil is straight back, the barrel does not flip up, sooooo I'm thinking one on the 45-70 might be a good thing what with these aging shoulders and all. I'll have to start designing one.

[cabezaverde]

I assume you are talking about a carbine, because the 24" barrel on the Contender with a handgun grip is illegal. With the shoulder stock it is not. Go figure. There is a 45-70 barrel for the contender as a handgun, I think it is 16"s. I can tell you not from experience but from watching someone else that it hurts alot. If fact he broke a bone in his hand, but he was shooting full house rifle loads. My advice would be to start light and work up. This is a very fun caliber because you can do alot with it. There are many loads and bullet types, therefore a lot of experimenting can be done.
I have a TCR 87 rifle with a 24" 45-70 barrel and sometimes I wish I had a compensator on it, it is a light rifle and with heavy loads you feeeeeeel it when recoils. But I LIIIIIKKKKKKEEEEE IT.
I also have a contender and a 30-30 barrel with a compensator and that is one comfortable shooter even with heavy loads. The recoil is straight back, the barrel does not flip up, sooooo I'm thinking one on the 45-70 might be a good thing what with these aging shoulders and all. I'll have to start designing one.

I wouldn't get in a fistfight about this, but I think you have it backwards. Pistol grip with any barrel is okay. Rifle stock with a barrel under 16" is illegal.

[Topper]

Thanks for the input gentlemen.
I probably should have been a little clearer with the orginal post
This will be a custom barrel with a brake that should tame the beast a bit.
Twist rates available are 18, 20, and 22.
Definitely a carbine or rifle barrel.
From the research I've done, the faster twist rate is prefered with the heavier boolit??
Am I getting the correct information??
Is 1-20 a good happy medium for cast weight options?
Thanks again for the feedback;-)

[ebner glocken]

I have a 16 inch barrel T/C factory no comp. Yes, you want the faster twist with heavier bullets but unless yours has a deeper throat than the factory this may be a moot point. When I try to load 500s in mine they have to be seated so far back it really runs pressures up if I want much velocity at all. I have a tendency toward heavier bullets per caliber but have pretty much stuck to 405s be they paper patched, plain base, or gas check. As far as accuracy goes I can pretty much hit an 8 inch gong @ 100 yards at will off a good rest. This is assuming this is during the first 20 round fired, after that I'm doing pretty good to hit the backstop due to flinch.

[Bass Ackward]

With lead, you always want the least amount of twist rate that will result in stabilization. So much depends on how you want to shoot this thing. I would say a 22" twist would stabilize anything up to the 405 grainer. If you want to run BP velocities, then go with a 20 twist.

As far as barrel length, 20 " burns most powders and doesn't tax your lube carrying capability with some common designs. And remember, if you would like to shoot factory molds, go with a 456 bore diameter. Not 458. Other wise you will need molds that throw larger bullets.

[BABore]

If your seeking a truly custom barrel for shooting cast, check out this link.

http://www.ottllc.com/

They use the EDM process to cut the chamber and throat to exactly what you want. No reamers involved with perfect roundness and concentricity. Decent prices to. I'm sure there are several members here that could help you design the perfect cast friendly chamber.

[felix]

Good idea that EDM is. Have the dies made at the same time. ... felix

[dragonrider]

Cabezaverde,
You are probably right.

[Larry Gibson]

Topper

I shoot 500 gr bullets in my H&R TD carbine with 1-22" twist with very good accuracy down to 800 fps. The faster twist is to keep the long 500+ gr snover/schmitzer type bullets stabilized at long (1000 yards) range. Frankly I don't shoot many (actually none anymore) 500 gr bullets in the light weight TD carbine. I seriously doubt you will in the TC Contender unless you are a real glutton for punishment. The 1-22 twist is excellent for the 400-405 gr bullets of which I shoot quite a few at 1150 fps. It is very, very accurate with the Rapine 460250 (275 gr bullet) at 1050 fps of which I mostly shoot. A 45-70 can be a very enjoyable cartridge to cast bullets for, load for and to shoot, enjoy.

Note; I also shoot the 275, 400-405, and a Rapine 460500 (replicates the M81 bullet) gr bullets out of an H&R Officers Model and an original M1884 TD. Both have the 1-22" twist and handle the 400 and 500 gr bullets very well to over 1000 yards. I won't get into the 450-400-70 (45-70) Siamese Mauser loads but it also has a 1-22" twist and shoots everything just fine.

Larry Gibson

[lovedogs]

Cabezaverde is correct on bbl. lengths for pistol and rifle legal lengths. As far as having a bbl. too long... that's not correct info. In my shooting club we have a variety of lengths from 22 to 34 inches and even with fast powders the long bbls. are faster. Mine wears a 32 in. bbl. and gets a lot more vel. than some of my friends 22, 24, and 28 inchers get with powder of the same burning rate. My .45-70 uses a 1 in 20 twist and shoots everything from 300 through 500 gr., lead or jacketed very well.

[Topper]

Thanks again for the input.
This will be an OTT barrel;-) and I'm very excited to have a barrle made by Mike.
Already saving spare change to order a stock.

[Rafe Covington]

You would do better to get an Encore, I have an .45-70 barrel from Fox Ridge[bull barrel]. It kicks alot but not uncomfortable. My brother has a .45-70 in a Contender and has a healthy kick.