Got a problem w/9mm

[xxclaro]

I am trying to load up my 124gr cast bullets in my 9mm and have a problem. The manual says to seat to 1.150 OAL with a similar bullet, but using my barrel as a guide, I have to seat to 1.090 or so to get them to sit almost flat.
I loaded some up with 4.1gr Red Dot, which is .4 under max,but I'm not sure I should shoot them. I did use a fairly mild load of Unique with this bullet and gun before,and it worked okay. I'm not sure if the Red Dot might be hotter.
I I tried maiking up a dummy round seated to 1.150 and pushed it all the way flush with the barrel. The rifling marks are clearly visible on the bullet. If these round nose bullets won't work,I'll have to buy a different mold. Any suggestions of what I should maybe try next? Kinda sucks as I just bought this mold last year and cast some nice bullets with it.

[Nate1778]

The red Dot is going to be hot but the load should be OK. You need to be careful using fast powders and shortening that caliber. I use 4.6 of Unique and a OAL of 1.04 to chamber in my gun. Shoots awesome.

[runfiverun]

using a shorter oal or different from the book is common.
your load needs to be adjusted to compensate for your situation.
try a few of what you got,then adjust.

[fredj338]

What book, what data? All bullets do NOT load to the same OAL. Most TC shaped bullets load shorter because of the problem you state. I load the 120-124grLTC (Saeco mold) to 1.060" as about max for all the 9mm I shoot it in. Just adjust your powder charge down a bit. A chronograph helps find the relationship for you.
RedDot is definitely faster burning than Unique, so caution in deeper seating is certainly in order.

[xxclaro]

I was using data from a Lee manual. The bullet is also a lee roundnose. I seated one out to 1.150 and then pushed it forcibly into the chamber till flush. I pried it out and the rifling marks were clearly evident on the bullet. Is all lost?

[runfiverun]

i think you'll be okay.
i seat in the .05-6 range too with 124 rn's,but use 4.0 titegroup.
a pretty quick powder too.
really didn't get into trouble till i went to a 158 swc and walked the powder charge back up to 4 grs. [don't do this unless you don't like your gun,or fingers]
try one or two and read your brass and results,if things are working then keep going

[kawalekm]

Claro, the very first thing I alway's do when I start loading a new bullet is find out what OAL will set THAT bullet against the rifling. Why didn't you do that first?

The proper way to develop a new load for an autoloader is to first figure out what will fit into your chamber, then determine what will load into your magazine and feed out of it, THEN you start working on the powder charge!

Here's what I do. Take a fired, but unsized case and put one of your ready to load bullets into it. The case should have just a slight friction grip on the bullet, but it should be able to slide in and out of the case. Gently push the case/bullet into the chamber of your gun, and let the bullet slide into the case as it butts against the rifling. Gently remove the case/bullet without disturbing its position and record the OAL where the bullet just touches the rifling. Subtract 5-10 thousandths off of that number to allow the bullet to have a free start before running into the rifling.

You might have to make your OAL even shorter to fit the cartridges into the magazine, and maybe shorter still for proper feeding. These the the preliminaries you need to check before you ever reach for your powder scale. You then select a starting load and begin experimenting with what will become you most accurate reliable load.

By the way, I load Lee's 120 grain TC to an OAL of 1.070" in my 9mm.

[GabbyM]

I'd try shooting them at that length since your charge looks to be stout. The slide should drive that bullet home. On the next lot use your barrel as a gauge to find COL. You may find it works just fine at the long length. Are you engraving groves in the bullet or just shinning lines? Does your mould cast a bit on the fat side?

Lyman book for their 120 grain RN list Red Dot at 3gr to start and 3.9 max for a paltry 1140 fps.

[fecmech]

The devil is in the details as they say. A great example in the 9MM is the popular Lyman 356402 truncated cone 121 gr bullet. This is a "pointy" tc bullet with a .280 length bearing area. The Lee is a less "pointy" tc bullet of 120 grs also with a .280 bearing area. Lyman recommends an oal of 1.110" with their bullet. If you load the Lee to that oal the lube groove is out of the case and it won't camber in most 9's. However if the Lee is loaded to 1.048 it has .280 of the bullet in the case the same as the Lyman does at 1.110. I would also bet that pressures with any given powder charge behind these 2 bullets loaded at the different oals would be the same or very darn close. Cartridge pressures are determined by bearing area, case capacity and the weight of the bullet mainly. 9MM oals are all over the place, my main concern has always been how much does the bullet weigh and how much is in the case.

[mike in co]

what no one has mentioned is boolit dia.

have you slugged your bbl ?

what dia have you sized them to " or shooting as cast, again what dia ?


i don't think you should shoot them......

not till we have all the data on the load.

what is the boolit length ?
what is its dia ?
and are you sure you got 4 gr of red dot in the case ??

ok i'm having some issues with red dot an quickload data.
i put 4 gr in a 9mm case and i get about 0.220 available for boolit seating, quick load says its over 100 percent.....
and i'm getting over max pressure at 4.0 with an oal of 1.169 and a 124 gr boolit.

so again dont think you should shoot till we have more data...



mike in co

[Bwana]

The way I find the maximum length of a particular bullet in an auto pistol's bbl is remove the bbl, drop the bullet into the bbl, measure the distance from the bullet base to the back of the bbl hood. Then remove the bullet and add its length to the first measurement and that would be the maximum length for that bullet and that bbl.
Then, of course, the other factors; feeding, magazine length, lube grooves, come into play in making the final determination of overall length.

[fredj338]

I'd try shooting them at that length since your charge looks to be stout. The slide should drive that bullet home. On the next lot use your barrel as a gauge to find COL. You may find it works just fine at the long length. Are you engraving groves in the bullet or just shinning lines? Does your mould cast a bit on the fat side?

Lyman book for their 120 grain RN list Red Dot at 3gr to start and 3.9 max for a paltry 1140 fps.

Jambing the bullet into the lands w/ a near max charge of uberfast powder is not wise or safe. You should only be loading 10rds for testing anyway. This is AFTER making sure the bullets fit the chamber first using a dummy round. If yo uhave to pull them all, then next time you'll remember the correct way to work a load up.:groner:
One of my issues w/ Lee loading data i syo uhave no idea what bullet they are loading. It just says 120gr lead or 124gr jacketed, yes, bullet shpae is totally relavent to safe OAL.

[xxclaro]

Well alright, looks like got some things to figure out. This pistol stuff is still pretty new to me. This bullet is not a TC type but a round nose. It drops from the mold at .358 or .359,though I've run them through the .356 sizer with no difference. Bullet length is .575 and bearing surface,close as I can measure is .280. When I drop teh bullet in the barrel, it leaves .453 to the top of the barrel hood. Haven't properly slugged teh barrel yet,so not exactly sure on that measurement.

[mike in co]

Well alright, looks like got some things to figure out. This pistol stuff is still pretty new to me. This bullet is not a TC type but a round nose. It drops from the mold at .358 or .359,though I've run them through the .356 sizer with no difference. Bullet length is .575 and bearing surface,close as I can measure is .280. When I drop teh bullet in the barrel, it leaves .453 to the top of the barrel hood. Haven't properly slugged teh barrel yet,so not exactly sure on that measurement.



ok i dont think my quickload is perfect for reddot...but it does show this load with your oal and that boolit length to be way over pressure...but about 10kpsi.....


so like someone said...pulll'em( 3.5 appears to be max for this boolit at this oal)

for the record i like aa5 in 9mm


mike in co

[GabbyM]

Jambing the bullet into the lands w/ a near max charge of uberfast powder is not wise or safe. You should only be loading 10rds for testing anyway. This is AFTER making sure the bullets fit the chamber first using a dummy round. If yo uhave to pull them all, then next time you'll remember the correct way to work a load up.:groner:
One of my issues w/ Lee loading data i syo uhave no idea what bullet they are loading. It just says 120gr lead or 124gr jacketed, yes, bullet shpae is totally relavent to safe OAL.

Well if you read my post you'll see that I pointed out to the OP his load was beyond Lyman's max load for their 120 grain bullet. But that's the Lyman data and the OP has the Lee bullet with Lee data.

As for “jamming the bullet” into the lands. As you refer to it. That 's the only proper way to load a 9 x 19mm NATO chamber if you want any kind of accuracy. I'm thinking you've never loaded a 9x19mm in your life but some how think you can criticize me and others. We'll insert that groan smiley here. Back at you!

Fredj338 you have no idea of what you speak. Typical of CA attitude. If you did know anything about a 9x19mm you'd know this fellows load is no where close to NATO ball pressure. If you had any respect for your fellow man you'd give him credit for his ability to recognize an over pressure load after a few shots. His load in no way can blow up a pistol or anything close to that.

I may sound a bit confrontational but I'm actually holding back a lot. Not really in much of a mood the last ten years to put up with this. Actually expect an apology from you. You can call me an AH but you really need to back down. Unless you want to stand by 4.1 grains of Red Dot blowing up a 9x19mm.

[mike in co]

Well if you read my post you'll see that I pointed out to the OP his load was beyond Lyman's max load for their 120 grain bullet. But that's the Lyman data and the OP has the Lee bullet with Lee data.

As for “jamming the bullet” into the lands. As you refer to it. That 's the only proper way to load a 9 x 19mm NATO chamber if you want any kind of accuracy. I'm thinking you've never loaded a 9x19mm in your life but some how think you can criticize me and others. We'll insert that groan smiley here. Back at you!

Fredj338 you have no idea of what you speak. Typical of CA attitude. If you did know anything about a 9x19mm you'd know this fellows load is no where close to NATO ball pressure. If you had any respect for your fellow man you'd give him credit for his ability to recognize an over pressure load after a few shots. His load in no way can blow up a pistol or anything close to that.

I may sound a bit confrontational but I'm actually holding back a lot. Not really in much of a mood the last ten years to put up with this. Actually expect an apology from you. You can call me an AH but you really need to back down. Unless you want to stand by 4.1 grains of Red Dot blowing up a 9x19mm.

all i got to say is duh!
i have never settled on a jam in either 9mm nor in 9x21 to get best accuracy. 10-12 yrs of ipsc competition...never a jam length load. used up a coupe of guns, barsto bbls, factory bbls...no jam length ammo.

and no i did not say it would blow up a gun..but 4.0 of red dot, with his boolit and the listed oal of 1.090 is way over pressure.

your comment on lymans data of a paltry 1140 implies alot, but not that thier data is at 32kpsi...close to max.

mike in co

[GabbyM]

all i got to say is duh!
i have never settled on a jam in either 9mm nor in 9x21 to get best accuracy. 10-12 yrs of ipsc competition...never a jam length load. used up a coupe of guns, barsto bbls, factory bbls...no jam length ammo.

and no i did not say it would blow up a gun..but 4.0 of red dot, with his boolit and the listed oal of 1.090 is way over pressure.

your comment on lymans data of a paltry 1140 implies alot, but not that thier data is at 32kpsi...close to max.

mike in co

OP never said the load jammed. All he said was their were marks on the bullet.
Fredj338 used the term jamb then I quoted his term argumentatively. Seams all you've done the last six months on here is trash talk other members.

I'll keep on loading my 9mm bullets out touching the rifling the way I've done it for thirty-six years.

[mike in co]

OP never said the load jammed. All he said was their were marks on the bullet.
Fredj338 used the term jamb then I quoted his term argumentatively. Seams all you've done the last six months on here is trash talk other members.

I'll keep on loading my 9mm bullets out touching the rifling the way I've done it for thirty-six years.


huhhhh ?
"As for “jamming the bullet” into the lands. As you refer to it. That 's the only proper way to load a 9 x 19mm NATO chamber if you want any kind of accuracy. "


seem you have a memory issue

that right there says jam is the only way....

its not members i pick on, its poor statements made by memberes that i pick on.
i have never met you, do not know you, but i can read what you post.

mike in co

[GabbyM]

NO Mike you obviously cannot comprehend what I have written their.

You're just being a total PITA as usual. Jumping in on a post that was not even aimed at you. Just couldn't pass up a chance to be contrary could you.

[mike in co]

NO Mike you obviously cannot comprehend what I have written their.

You're just being a total PITA as usual. Jumping in on a post that was not even aimed at you. Just couldn't pass up a chance to be contrary could you.

lol...
more like you got caught and cannot stand it....

its there in black and white for all to see.....


explain what i cannot comprehend



mike in co

[wrinkles]

I shoot 9mm Lee 124gr ltc with 4.0gr Red Dot with an OAL 1.070. Been shooting it for a couple of years with no issues.