Which progressive? [Archive]

crabo

02-27-2010, 01:08 PM

dragonrider

02-27-2010, 01:14 PM

What they said, Dillon.

Lloyd Smale

02-27-2010, 01:17 PM

ive load quite a bit on 1050s and 650s and there great presses. I own three hornady lock and loads and one 550. All good presses but if i could only have one progressive (semi progressive i guess) press it would hands down be a 550. Nothing is more reliable and it will crank out a respectable amount of ammo in any caliber. If push came to shove i could probably get by with a 550 for every bit of loading i do. But then i could probably get by with one gun too but what fun would that be.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

02-27-2010, 01:23 PM

From what I read, if your looking at the LNL, you need to go to the 650 Dillon to get apples to apples likenesses.

I started loading in the 60s, and just recently went to a progressive.

A friend who is a long time loader/owner of a Dillon 500 - 550 was over the other day, and seemed to be rather in awww of my new Hornady. Grease zerks in the linkage, auto indexing etc. etc. etc.

The LNL comes with a very good powder measure and you current dies will work just fine.

I bought some additional LNL bushing, some of the case retainer springs and a few other parts, all of which, except for the bushings, I haven't needed, but like a boy scout I like to be prepaired.

The Dillon owner folk have "a thing", but I have read some posts from LNL owners which were almost as bad. To each his own.

However, with the "free" bullet offer from Hornady and the fact that other then shell plates there is nothing needed but what already comes packed with the LNL, The Hornady is clearly the winner in the price department.

I though about a Dillon, they of course be'in "THE PROGRESSIVE FOLK", for quite awhile. but could never bring myself to go that way.

A good supply of "Cabela's Points" and the "free" bullets put me over the hump for the HORNADY and I can see no way I made a poor choice.

Lee, NOT! - See, my "thing" is Lee!

Go with the Hornady, it is a fine machine, backed by a good company ------

BUT after years on a single stage press, be prepaired for a LEARNING CURVE!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Xcaliber

02-27-2010, 01:36 PM

Dillon for me. I have no experience with either Lee and the Hornady . Try DARYL here on this Forum, he might have one for sale. Good luck.

Dale53

02-27-2010, 01:49 PM

I have loaded on a number of Progressive presses. When you factor in all of the costs and want it rifle AND pistol capable the Dillon 550B is it, hands down.

Incidentally, the Dillon works fine with four die sets. On ALL of my pistol loading, I seat in one die and crimp in the last one. I use cast bullets exclusively in my pistols and revolvers.

The Dillon 550B is NOT the fastest machine out there - however, you can do 400-500 per hour. This is not "at the rate of" but 400-500 per hour REALLY.

That is fast enough for me. Much is made of the fact that you have to manually index the Dillon 550B. However, you have to be there to load the bullet with your left hand and you just merely advance the shell plate while setting the bullet. Not a problem, not awkward, just plain user friendly.

Dillon's warranty is legendary.

Using standard dies was a MUST for me. I had most all of my dies, already. I use Lyman, Lee (lots of Lee dies), RCBS, CH, and Dillon dies. Dillon's dies are the most advanced (you can easily disassemble without losing the adjustment by means of snap clips - that is very nice touch). Downside of Dillon dies is that they are expensive compared to Lee's for instance.

I honestly believe that the Dillon 550B has a much shorter learning curve, going from single stage to progressive.

FWIW
Dale53

Shiloh

02-27-2010, 01:58 PM

Dillon for me. I have no experience with either Lee and the Hornady . Try DARYL here on this Forum, he might have one for sale. Good luck.

Neither do I.

Still using the Dillon I purchased used years ago. At the time, the first user friendly commercial press. The Dillon warranty is great. Dillon has supplied me with free replacement pars as needed.

There are fans and supporters of the other machines, so they must work well. They continue to be sold.

Shiloh

GSaltzman

02-27-2010, 02:14 PM

Another Dillon fan. Like crabo I have 2 SDB's one for small and one for large pistol primers.

Lloyd Smale

02-27-2010, 02:34 PM

like i said ive got 3 of the horndays and bought them mostly because of the free bullet offer. With the free bullets the presses were very cheap and well worth it but id argue with anyone that said there as good or better then a 650. The indexing syslem isnt near as good. I requires adjustment for wear and mine will sometimes require adjustment for even switching calibers. One was returned to hornday because it was constantly going out of ajustment. Ive got a buddy with a 650 thats loaded thousands and i mean thousands of rounds on his 650s and they never go out of time. The dillon case feeder is also a more reliable unit then the horndays. I have two of them and they are in need of constant tweeking. Again the dillons set up just works and part of that is because the 650 was designed to use on and its not just an add on like the hornday. Primer feeds ill give a toss up to both. the horndays is more suseptable to dirt but if you keep it clean its a simpler design then the dillon. Powder measures go to hornady. I think there hands down better then the dillons and with the snap in ajustment stems its easy to keep extras set right up in the powder charges you use the most. Calber changeout is about a wash. It may cost a few more bucks for the dillon because you have to buy a die head which is a bit more then 4 lock and load bushings but its not alot more and either are fast. the hornday probably would get the small advantage because you can remove or add individual dies a bit quicker. Bottom line is the bullets are shot up and to be honest id rather have 3 650s sitting here right now.

Doc Highwall

02-27-2010, 02:45 PM

I have two 550's and a 650 Dillon is the way to go. I have used a square deal and I liked it too.

cricco

02-27-2010, 02:50 PM

The Dillon seats and crimps the bullet in a single operation..

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I have a Dillon 550B. I also use Dillon dies. My seating, and crimping are two seperate operations. Seating is stage 3, and crimping is stage 4.

Crash_Corrigan

02-27-2010, 03:08 PM

I have a Lee hand press, Lee Challenger, Lee Classic Turret Press, Midway SS90 single stage, Dillon 550B with casefeeder and a Dillon Square Deal.

I use all of them. I take the hand press with a small scale and powder and such to the range to develop new loads. I use the Lee Challenger to deprime all my cases prior to tumbling. The Lee turret press is used when I am just making a small number of loads and to kill time while I am listening to music on the computer speakers.

For serious rifle loading I use the Midway single stage press and measure and weight every charge etc for serious consistency.

For my .223, 30-06, 327 Federal Mag, 38's and 357's and .45 Colt I go to the Dillon 550. For my 9 MM's and .45 ACP's the SQuare Deal gets the job done.

The 550 Dillon is the fastest one to use and also the most able to adapt to different calibers. Over the years I have aquired all the basic shell plates and funnels that I need. When I added the case feeder a few years ago my output really went up. I can load 300 to 450 rounds per hour on this press and not even rush. It is a nice rythem and breaks are taken to reload primer tubes and refresh the powder dispenser and the case feeder.

Since I shoot so much 9MM and .45 ACP I have the square deal just for those calibers. Again it is a no brainer. Just sit there and crank out the rounds while listening to decent music on the computer speakers. It is auto indexing and requires very little adjustment. The 550 is a living breathing female and requires a certain amount of lubrication and care. If you understand how to take her slow and not rush too fast you will get excellent results and not get furstrated nor tired. However if you try to rush things and you do not listen and feel every primer when it is installed then you are asking for trouble. It requires concentration and a level of skill to use but the results are worth it.

I am still working with the Lee Classic Turret Press and the priming thing so the jury is still out. It is faster than a single stage press but it is nowhere near as fast as a Dillon.

If you are just assembling a couple of calibers then I would go with the Dillon Square Deal. If you are also doing rifle rounds ie: .223 and 30-06 etc then the 550B is the way to go.

I cannot comment on the Hornady Lock N Load as I have had no experience with them. I did have a Lee Loadmaster that drove me crazy with primer problems and I junked it.

helg

02-27-2010, 03:08 PM

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/helgp/lee-dillon.gif

RobS

02-27-2010, 03:20 PM

First off progressive presses = more setup time and more problematic issues to overcome aka "tinkering".

I will not state what the best press is as that is left to an opinion and this thread will easily turn into a Dillon love/hate affair and a pissing match between the different presses on the market. I cannot make up your mind for you and that is not my intent, however I will give you some insight on the progressives presses on the market:

Dillon=less fuss straight out of the box and is good for the longevity although it is a progressive press and there will be the possibility of tinkering from time to time. Additionally Dillon's warranty is rock solid.

RCBS=Good machine and when set up not too bad although the priming may be a bit of a PIA as it has been for some people. Great warranty as well.

Hornady=Solid machine with some minor tinkering along the way and the new update to the case ejector is a much need improvement. This press is cheaper than the other two presses mentioned and many people have been happy with their purchase. Also very good warranty.

Lee Load Master=spotty quality control out the door and probably the reason for such terrible reviews. Once set up though this press can run good ammo and at 1/3rd the cost of the other companies. Warranty issues can arise although once you talk to Lee they are more than happy to accommodate the customer even if you explain you messed up. Ask to talk with a service technician though.
NOTE: I traded off my Dillon 550 for a 45 colt Blackhawk and a what most people would consider a *** Lee LM. Of course I did this after figuring out my first LM and if you have the mechanical aptitude the LM can run with pace of the other progressives assuming they are all run without the case feeder. I own two.....one for small primers and the other for larger primers and switching calibers have never been an issue and is done in about 2 minutes.

Overview:
If you desire less fuss straight from the box and have the money buy a Dillon 650 as it compares to the other auto progressives........if not then possibly the Dillon 550. If you only plan on pistol then the Square Deal.

I see the RCBS and Hornady presses as a close comparison as they both will have their "issues" from time to time. If it were me though I would go with the Hornady as they are less expensive.

The Lee LoadMaster is a reliable machine if you are so inclined to tinker with it and plan on trouble shooting for a while prior to using it. I spent around 3 hours setting up the presses I own and then at that I've actually spent more time making modifications as well. Neither one since I first adjusted the machines have went out of time. This press is NOT for someone who wants to reload straight from the box as it will simply piss you off. I highly suggest that a person look at the LoadMaster Zone forum prior to purchasing this press as it will ease your nerves when you first open the box to set it up.

FWIW that is my experiences with my presses and/or the several experiences I've had using these different progressive presses.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

02-27-2010, 04:03 PM

Well said RobS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

jcw1970

02-27-2010, 04:40 PM

I like my old Hornady Projectors. I had always used an old C press until I got one at an auction one day for $65. Had everything in the box. I liked it so much, I now have 5 of them. At one time I had 7 but that was a little too much. I ran out of bench space so I sold them on here. I've picked them up at garage sales, ebay, and craigslist. I have one for 45,38, 9mm and 30 carbine. The last one I use for 270,308,06. I did have to purchase 2 LNL powder measures and some shellplates and I've had to get a few parts from Hornady which are still available. I have upgraded to the case activated powder drop on 4 of them but still like to do the rifle one manually. I would say that I have around $900 invested in the 5. I don't think you can come close to that buying new ones.

HeavyMetal

02-27-2010, 05:05 PM

My current press collection:
Two Dillon 550's
One Lyman All American
one Lee Challanger, with Steel linkage upgrade!
five Lyman Tru line jr's, one converted to a six hole 7/8x14 die setup the others are in line for this as the economy gets better!

Sold a Co-Ax press, wasn't being used and needed cash, Great single stage!

Gave away a Lee C press to a kid I work with to get him started in reloading.

Won't even mention the shotshell stuff!

I've also had a variety of single stage and turret Lyman's RCBS and "off Brand" stuff like Eagle and Herters.

I have seen a Hornady LNL and it looks good but don't let free stuff buy you off cause that is short term thinking! After the boolits are gone you still need to load on the darn thing!

Having said all that if I was going to buy a progressive press today what would I buy?

If it was going to be used for pistol only: I hunt up the best deal I could find on a new or used Dillon Squre Deal and live with the propriatary die set up cause it works!

If I was going to do pistol and rifle: I'd hunt up the best deal on a new or used Dillon 550.

Why?

Because I could find one frozen in a lake and send it to dillon and have a new press in two weeks!

Lloyd Smale

02-27-2010, 05:54 PM

one thing to keep in perspective here is when taking advice from people on which progressive to buy find guys that load a couple thousand rounds a month on them not that use them to load an occasional 200 rounds. The real test of a press is what it does after its loaded 10000 rounds. I remember writing a glowing report on my lnls the first month i had them. I still think there a good press but really dont believe there the best anymore. I had square deals that burned in the pole barn fire that had over a half a million rounds loaded on them. Id have to guess there isnt but a handfull of lees that have 10000 rounds on them in the country. Most guys have traded up well before that round count comes.

helg

02-27-2010, 06:12 PM

Id have to guess there isnt but a handfull of lees that have 10000 rounds on them in the country. Most guys have traded up well before that round count comes.
1. My Loadmaster has over 10K rounds.
2. Have you seen Loadmasters traded for less? This forum has a swapping section. I do not see there the Loadmasters with bargain price.

I doubt that your guess is not grounded.

Lloyd Smale

02-27-2010, 07:04 PM

didnt say there not out there with that round count i said it was rare. I dont see many used progressive presses for sale of any brand and to be honest never paid attention to what they sell for used. I had one i bought new and it cured me of keeping track of the market on them. My buddy said it best. he allways said that theres probably as many collecting dust on benches and stuffed into closets then are really in use. Ill never claim that cant be made to make ammo but it takes alot more relaxed personality then mine to deal with one. I bought one because i was pulling my hair out with a pro1000 and found the 1000 to be the more reliable of the two presses. i dont want to get into a pissing match about presses but id about bet if you spent a couple days with a 550 or 650 youd be breaking the piggy bank to get one if you load that much.

runfiverun

02-27-2010, 07:28 PM

straight up the 550's.
i had a lee pro umm,,,, whatever it were, i could not sell it,
not in good conscience.
it went over the cliff,the dies are still in it.
simple is good,the 550's are fairly fast,but reliability and consistency is better.

RobS

02-27-2010, 07:30 PM

It is hard to comment on the longevity of a press if you do not have personal experience. I owned a Dillon 550 and traded it with the idea of a Blackhawk and that I could comfortably work the Load Master

With that:

I've had three LM's. My first one bought new currently has over 10,000 rounds and I still have it and it is still going strong. The second one I picked up from a fellow for the 45 Blackhawk deal who loaded around 200 rounds on it and got pissed, I loaded 7,000 rounds on it until I sold it to a friend to buy a reconditioned one from Lee as I basically wanted a new/different set of dies so sold him the press for the cost of a reconditioned and ended up with dies for free. That friend has put around 4,000 rounds or so through it. My reconditioned press had???? (probably not too many though as it looked new when I received it) and now I have around 8,000 rounds on it. It all depends on how you treat things I guess. Also I swear by slick 50 engine treatment. I lube the whole press with it and I find it amazing. In fact I use the engine treatment on everything as it is in several oil cans around the garage.

FWIW.

If a LM can manage to work through all the rounds I put them through all these presses should last a very, very long time that is if a person takes care of them. There is nothing wrong with any of them other than the little quirks that they all have from time to time. Some have more quirks, some have less etc. Lee on the other hand has very bad quality control issues that will drive a person nuts. Dillon by standards has the market on a solid press with a great warranty (i.e. send a press in for $25 I believe it is and they will recondition it to new and do all the upgrades) now that is something. I though elected to work with the Lee press as I could make them work and work well and I could have two progressives that were less than the cost of one of the others. The two Lee LM’s I have with dies etc. would cost me $375 and that is something to talk about too.

Opinions yes………………….with some facts. Now if I weren’t so cheap/poor or frugal as I like to call myself then I would go Dillon all the way as their customer service is unreal and they make a good product.

Gunslinger

02-27-2010, 08:56 PM

I'm with the Dillon guys on this one.

I have a 650 and I love it. It would lie in my bed had it not been so heavy and cold! I finde the powder measure extremely accurate. I tested 40 rounds of 9mm a while back, all were between 1108fps and 1118fps... I was really surprised!! I've had it for less than a year, and I think I've loaded around 12.000 rounds on it. I've had 2 primers seated upside down (cannot rule out human error on those 2), no crushed primers and well.... it just works the blue thing.

Besides... you can also load .223 on it. If you say you get tired of loading 800 a week on a turret, get the progressive... you'll be glad.

mack1

02-27-2010, 09:06 PM

I have had a 550 for 7 years and loaded 22-250 38/357, 308 and 45acp this is a very universal press by not auto indexing die and powder adjustments are a snap also the priming system will return an unused primer to the magizine. The only problems I have incountered have been wiyh lose powder gumming up the works a little a can of compressed air will usually cure this. My new 650 arrived 2 weeks ago and I have only loaded about 1500 38 sp and maby 300 357 so far for the large runs the 650 is much better and the powder cheack is cheep insurance for light charges of fast powder where a double charge might go unnoticed. I have no experienc with the other brands but I like to get what all the others are compared to and that seems to be Dillon.

mpmarty

02-27-2010, 09:35 PM

A friend I shot IPSC with and I went together and bought a 550B in 45acp and with a match every week and practice we went through thousands of rounds on this thing. It is rock solid as is the warranty. Those folks at Dillon know what they're doing and aim to please. If I had it to do over I'd buy the 650 as it is faster but for all my rifle and pistol reloading the 550 does it just fine thank you.

scb

02-27-2010, 09:37 PM

I really liked my Dillon Square deal for pistol calibers. Let it go (shouldn't have) when I got my Ammo Master. It works OK, not real thrilled with the primer feed.

fredj338

02-27-2010, 10:46 PM

Here's my take.....

If you want to do large amounts of pistol and revolver ammo, go with the Dillion Square Deal. It automatically indexes and you can crank out 300-400 in an hour easily. I do mine when I watch television. (flames suit on, I don't want to hear it) The downside is you have to buy caliber conversions. I buy the die plates so I can leave my dies adjusted and change caliber in about 2 minutes.

If you want to do rifle and pistol, go with the 550. It is not as fast and you have to manually index the machine, but all of your dies will work.

I have 2 Square Deals, one set up in large primer and one in small primer. Both have been sent back to the factory for rebuilds at no cost except shipping to them. I just used them to the point they were being a little difficult to operate. I would have fixed them myself, but with the customer service Dillon gives, why bother?

SUre, I'll flame on. Reloading is not a pass time. Not paying attention, like watching TV, will eventually bite you in the ***. Ok, flame over.
As to the SDB, not a good choice if you want to load rifle in the future. The auto indexing is totally over rated. I can easily load 400rds/hr on my 550B, hour after hour. I can get a bit faster for a one hour period, putting out 450/hr.
Dillon is almost pricing themselves out of the game IMO, & I run two 550B. If I were buying today, the LNL can be found cheaper & is pretty user friendly. It compares to the $250 higher priced Dillon 650. BOth offer great warranty service if needed. I prefer the tool head design of the Dillons to the bushings of the Horandy, but that is not a big deal.

Colorado4wheel

02-27-2010, 11:31 PM

I had a Dillon 550. The Dillon holds 4 dies, and the Hornady holds 5 dies. The Dillon seats and crimps the bullet in a single operation..

ALL Dillons seat and crimp in seperate stations. The LnL is a 5 station press ALL the Dillons are 4 or more.

1) Size and prime
2) Expand and Charge with Powder
3) Seat
4) Crimp.

LnL

1) Size and prime
2) Expand
3) Charge with Powder
4) Seat
5) Crimp

I guess 2+3 could be reversed as well. On a LnL you can buy a PTX to allow you to expand the case and charge the case at the same time. You can seat and crimp the same time if you like on any press.

I can load 500 rds a hour on my 550 pretty nicely. I have loaded way over 10K rounds on the machine.

HangFireW8

02-28-2010, 12:51 AM

There was a good article about 5-6 years ago in Precision Shooting about what it took to take the vertical slop out of the Dillon 550. It takes a lot.

I got out my dial indicators and measured the vertical slop in my Projector. It was less than the article writer's stock 550 and almost as good as his heavily modified 550.

What am I talking about?

Put shells in all 4 or 5 stations, seat a bullet, measure that bullet ON THE OGIVE with the proper equipment. (Don't measure COAL, with bullet tips varying +/- 0.010", that measurement is useless). Do five cartridges, keeping every station filled at all times.

Then, repeat, clear the stations, running 5 more carts through from all stations one at a time, that is, there is only ever one cartridge on the press at a time.

Measure and average both sets of 5 cartridges. You will find, on any brand, make or model of progressive press, the 5 cartridges created with a full press will be longer than those made with an otherwise empty press. Why? Compression of the press components is greater when resizing then when not.

I like my Projector because it doesn't have a turret or LNL bushings to compress. There is some compression in the ram and rotor stack... just like every other brand of progressive press. I don't like the primer feed, but I can and have got it adjusted to work 99.99% of the time. It is just a pain to adjust, that is all.

The moral of the story? Whatever level of progressive reloading you do, every station, every other station, one on the press at a time, do it that way, every time, if you want consistant COAL (as properly measured on the ogive). So, whenever some progressive press owner goes all Blue or Green on me, I ask him what his measured vertical variance is on his shellplate seating station, with and without a shell on the sizer. When I get the blank stare back, then I know. Mindless brand shilling.

-HF

Russ in WY

02-28-2010, 01:06 AM

!st one was a plain 550 bout 20yrs back. When the "B" Mod came out got it. Great upgrade . Picked up the 2nd 550B maybe 10yrs later. Have loaded thousands of pistol while shooting NRA Bullseye comp. Since have moved to rifle & find the 550B to be excellent there also. Can crank out Pd loads by the hundreds & still hold Min of PD all the time. I don't mind the manual advance in the least . My 2¢ Russ.

Ferdinand

02-28-2010, 01:39 AM

I have a Dillon Square Deal - pre-B model. I bought it used in 1989. I've cranked out tens of thousands of rounds of .357, 9mm, and .45 ACP on it, and it's been great. Like any machine, parts wear and fail with use. Dillon has replaced them without hesitation and the diagnosis/service has been excellent. I feel guilty calling them when something breaks now, as they've given me more in parts than what the machine costs new. It's a great product, but as I mentioned, stuff does fail after time - and at a totally acceptable rate for me.

That said, I load my rifle ammo on a single-stage, , since this is more precise and gives me a chance to check each step visually. Also I don't consume this type of ammo at the rate that I use pistol ammo, so the loading rate is fine with me. I'd buy Dillon again without hesitation. :smile:

Marlin Hunter

02-28-2010, 02:59 AM

I bought some additional LNL bushing,...

However, with the "free" bullet offer from Hornady and the fact that other then shell plates there is nothing needed but what already comes packed with the LNL, The Hornady is clearly the winner in the price department.

Spare bushings are good to have. A 10 pack can save you a few $$$. Five L-N-L bushings cost less than 1 Dillon tooling plate. Another piece that is worth getting is the quick drain plug that goes into the powder measure to drain all the powder from your hopper real quick.
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Powder-Measure-Drain-Insert-1-Each/
http://www.hornady.com/store/images/T/050125.jpg

You can get a press conversion bushing to allow your RCBS Rock Chucker to use dies with the Hornady bushings installed. I have one on my RCBS.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Bushing-Press-Conversion/

Russel Nash

02-28-2010, 03:12 AM

Back in calendar year 2008, I was keeping track of all the rounds I expended at the USPSA/IPSC, IDPA, and steel plate matches.

The total for that year was right around 7,200 rounds. I'm sure there were .22LR rounds in that count too, but I can't exactly remember. So...I dunno...we'll say then that I shot 5,000 centerfire pistol rounds. All of them loaded up on a Dillon 550.

So...hmmn....Yeah...You can call me a drinker of Dillon blue Kool-Aide. [smilie=l:

I also have a Dillon 650 with a Case Feeder. That is just set up for .223.

Out of all my IPSC buddies, there is only one that I know about who has a non-Dillon, and IIRC, that is a Hornady Lock and Load. Everyone else who reloads has a Dillon.

Now, this is just anecdotal, but I do recall the guy with the Hornady LnL having problems with his ammo at matches.

Yes, the Dillon 550 is just a 4 station or 4 die machine, one of which is the proprietary Dillon belling and powder through/powder charging die. I am using an Evolution Gun Works/Lee resizing decapping die in Station 1. It eliminates that Glock bulge or belly, especially with the .40 S and W cases. Then Station #2 is the Dillon powder/belling die. Station #3 is the Redding Micrometer Adjustable Bullet Seating Die. These are great if you change bullet weights or designs on a regular basis. Just write down the micrometer's settings for a particular bullet and OAL and dial right back to it at a later time. Then Station #4 is a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I reckon I actually make about 300 honest to goodness rounds with the Dillon 550 per hour. I will make 100. Then plunk my butt down on the sofa in front of the TV, case gauge them, place them into those flip lid plastic ammo boxes, check for high primers, and then dump them into a GI ammo can. Then I go back to the Dillon 550 and crank out another 100.

I timed my buddy one time for about a minute with his casefeeder equipped Dillon 650. If he could keep it fed with primers, he could crank out 1,200 rounds per hour.

Yeah, there is some float with the tool heads and the shell plates on both the Dillon 550 and Dillon 650, and yes that can lead to some variances in OAL of your rounds. What I did on the 650 since it is set up for .223, is I drilled and tapped the tool head for set screws. That took a lot of the slop out of bumping the shoulders back on those bottlenecked cases when I go to resize them.

I think the other alternative that might work is where the two pins are that secure the toolhead into the press could be drilled and tapped for set screws (long and skinny screws) and then those could be tightened down to clamp the toolhead...to keep it from moving around.

There is, I think, also an outfit or two like CED or UniqueTek who make a special clamp kit for the Dillon toolhead to take out the up and down play as well.

G. David Tubb (you might have heard of him ...wink, wink) I think put out a reloading video where he shows how he makes his match ammo on a Dillon progressive press.

I reckon if it is good enough for him, it is good enough for me.

Marlin Hunter

02-28-2010, 03:17 AM

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I have a Dillon 550B. I also use Dillon dies. My seating, and crimping are two seperate operations. Seating is stage 3, and crimping is stage 4.

That makes two of us :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

For some reason I can remember something about seating and crimping in the same operation on the Dillon. Are Dillon pistol dies different from rifle dies? :confused:

Russel Nash

02-28-2010, 03:21 AM

Back when I first started reloading with an RCBS single stage press I used RCBS dies. I think when I first got the Dillon 550, I was using the combination RCBS bullet seating and crimping die in the 550.

Then I heard about the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Now, all my RCBS dies just sit in a box.

sargenv

02-28-2010, 03:41 AM

I too started with a Rock Chucker.. and wife bought me a Dillon 650 as a wedding present to me since she saw what kind of effort it took to crank out 200 rounds for a match. Since she actually wanted to see me she thought getting me a 650 was probably one of her better investments.. Now 13 years later I could say that I have probably loaded about 200,000 rounds on that press and I wouldn't be surprised if that # were higher. I load 223 Rem, 30-30 Win, 38 super, 38 spl, 357 mag, 40/10 mm, 45 acp, and 9mm. If/when I want to I will likely get the 308 Winchester conversion kit at some point. I have used Dillon, Lee, Hornady, Lyman, and RCBS dies in my 650. I have the case feeder and have every feed device save the magnum rifle case feed plate. I would reccomend the 650 to anyone except those who need a primer pocket swager.. and then I still might if cost were a factor and they didn't mind using the manual off press swage processing tool. To give you an idea, I cranked out about 800 rounds just this evening.. I have enough primer tubes to use up an entire box of 1000 primers (9 tubes, first one goes into the press). I have had too many people who weren't paying attention or were temporarily distracted and double charged a case on a 550 (I know 3 people who did this) with catastrophic results.. If I were to be in the market today, I think the 650 is still one of the best priced progressives on the planet.

Southern Son

02-28-2010, 04:30 AM

I have a 550 with a case feeder. Before the case feeder I loaded everything on it from 38Spl to 308Win. The rifle loads may not have been bench rest accurate, but the rabbits never seemed to notice. Since putting the casefeeder on it, I have only loaded 38Spl on it. I can fill a 2 liter icecream container with loaded .38 Specials in about 30 minutes.

I had a Loadmaster and if the primer feed was more reliable, I would probably still be using it. It was quick and made pistol ammo just as accurate as anything else. Loading the primer feeder was much quicker thant the Dillon, but it just broke down too often. The Dillon Tube might be a little slow to get loaded, but it has never let me down.

dudel

02-28-2010, 06:41 AM

Dillon or Hornady. If this weren't a boolits forum, I mention the great deal that Hornady has on their free projectiles with the purchase of a press...

Since you are considering .223, I'd stay away from the Dillon Square Deal B (a nice press for pistol rounds only; but it uses proprietary dies). After 20 years, I moved from a RockChucker to a Dillon 550b. Well there was a old Hornady Projector way back (nice machine; but the powder dump was a dump) and Lee LCT in between, but the Lee was a short lived affair.

The Hornady might be a better value (and the auto dump feature has improved); but the Dillon 550b is a solid machine with a great customer service.

cephas53

02-28-2010, 07:53 AM

Have had a Dillon 550 for a decade or so, no issues. Some little part was needed last year. After a phone call to them received it in the mail free, within a week. It was my choice mainly because I could use other dies with it. The only thing is every once in awhile I wish I had a powder check die. Never had a problem in all these years, but never say never. Pay particular attention to visually check charge thrown.

bullshot

02-28-2010, 10:03 AM

Here is my opinion and recommendation FWIW. I own two Dillon 550's. I'm happier than a pig in **** with them, but that's my opinion. I would suggest trying to find someone in your area with a progressive of the manufacturers that you are considering and see if you can have some hands on time with the machine. What I like you may hate. You get in Ct your welcome to try mine.

alg3205

02-28-2010, 10:13 AM

I recommend the Dillon line of products. I first started using a 450 in the early 80's, I got a 550 latter and upgraded the 450 to the 550 level. I now have a dedicated machine set up for large primer and one set for small primer, the priming change over is the only weak link in the Dillon. With new alignment tools provided, once you have a primer size set up, there are few problems. With two 550 machines, I load 45 acp, 308 and 30-06, on the the larger primer setup, just change the tool head and go. The small primer set up is for 380, 9 mm, 38/357 and .223. This works great for me and keep 3 people in ammo all year long. All my other loading is done on a Old RCBS Rockchucker.

Go with the Dillon if you can afford it, or keep an eye out for a used machine.

Shiloh

02-28-2010, 10:15 AM

So...I dunno...we'll say then that I shot 5,000 centerfire pistol rounds. All of them loaded up on a Dillon 550.

]So...hmmn....Yeah...You can call me a drinker of Dillon blue Kool-Aide.

I'll have some of that. Been drinking Blue Dillon Kool-Aid for 25 years

Out of all my IPSC buddies, there is only one that I know about who has a non-Dillon, and IIRC, that is a Hornady Lock and Load. Everyone else who reloads has a Dillon.

Me too!! That being said, Most of the guys I know were hooked on Dillon Years before the others came on the market

Yeah, there is some float with the tool heads and the shell plates on both the Dillon 550 and Dillon 650, and yes that can lead to some variances in OAL of your rounds. What I did on the 650 since it is set up for .223, is I drilled and tapped the tool head for set screws. That took a lot of the slop out of bumping the shoulders back on those bottlenecked cases when I go to resize them.

Mine is secured with aluminum shims from a Diet Pepsi can. Not high tech, but it works fine

I think the other alternative that might work is where the two pins are that secure the toolhead into the press could be drilled and tapped for set screws (long and skinny screws) and then those could be tightened down to clamp the toolhead...to keep it from moving around.

This could be a possibility as well. My shims work fine.

There is, I think, also an outfit or two like CED or UniqueTek who make a special clamp kit for the Dillon toolhead to take out the up and down play as well.

G. David Tubb (you might have heard of him ...wink, wink) I think put out a reloading video where he shows how he makes his match ammo on a Dillon progressive press.

Doesn't surprise me a bit.

I reckon if it is good enough for him, it is good enough for me.

Shiloh

chaos

02-28-2010, 10:31 AM

Colorado4wheel

02-28-2010, 10:46 AM

There was a good article about 5-6 years ago in Precision Shooting about what it took to take the vertical slop out of the Dillon 550. It takes a lot.

If you want to remove the slop you just tap the toolhead with a tap, drill the very top of the two holes a little larger then your tap, use bolts to hold the Toolhead. Simple. Also, someone makes a kit if you like that does not modd the press at all. That "BIG SLOP is no big deal. The best way to get rid of it in pistol is simple to set your Sizing Die to touch the toolhead and raise it. BINGO no slop. It's one of those things people talk about but never makes a bit of difference for most people.

I know you heard the SDB is faster then the 550. I don't think it is. The thing is tiny. I would recommend the 550. Go to brianenos.com and read that

http://www.brianenos.com/pages/dillon.html

Mumblypeg

02-28-2010, 10:59 AM

If you get the toolhead for the Square Deal and you're not changing primer size, it's not to bad to change cal. on it. I do this for 38spl. and 40 S&W. If you change alot just get two Square-D's. I know that that sounds like a lot but there are a number of people that do this and I would if I did it again. Just for pistol, I think the Square-D is tops if you leave it set up for just that cal.

Russel Nash

02-28-2010, 11:47 AM

As far as loading bottlenecked rifle rounds on a progressive press, YES! It can be done.

On my 650, I have 2 separate toolheads for .223. The one toolhead just has a Dillion full length resizing/decapping die.

I use a little tool or jig that clamps onto your digital caliper's "jaws".

This is it:

http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Kits/

So that allowed me to figure out how far back I was bumping the shoulders on my .223 brass.

That's when I figured out there was some "float" with the toolhead.

So once I got the correct amount of bump back dialed in, then I cranked all the brass through just that one sizing die. Which was super, super easy since it has a casefeeder. I just kept my right hand on the handle and cranked away. The auto-indexing of the 650 just moved the brass to the next station...BUT!!! There weren't any dies in any of the other stations...just air. So the brass just gets ejected out the back end of the brass and into what would normally be the loaded round bin.

Then I used a Possum Hollow Cutter and its tool holder chucked in a drill trim the brass down.

This is what the Possum Hollow Cutter/Trimmer looks like:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=127743

And with the tool holder for it, here:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=295771

See? It also fits your chamfering/deburring tool, which if I remember, I will write more about that in a minute.

This how quickly it trims:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i42nDelSKf8

You can also chamfer/deburr with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=volkNAxUiOo&feature=channel

And this is the part that I remember, it is just that I haven't tried it for myself yet. So I don't know if it works or is true, but I have heard that you can use the same chamfering tool to remove the crimps that crimp in military primers. So no need to get that 90 something dollar swaging tool that Dillon sells.

So with that Possum Hollow Trimmer, you set it up so that, if I recall correctly, the brass is 20 thousandths under the trim to length. I think for .223 it is supposed to be 1.75 inches long, so just trim to 1.73.

Then you put the 2nd toolhead in the 650. For that time around you can do without a sizing or decapping die in there at all, just go right to priming and then powder charging and bullet seating and possibly crimping if you want to...if there is a crimping cannelure there.

So then you mark all your tumbled rounds so that you know when you get your brass back.

So now with that brass back, you put an RCBS X-sizer die into your toolhead with the mandrel screwed down. The mandrel is what keeps the brass from growing every time it gets shot and/or resized.

Go here:

http://www.rcbs.com/

Right when that page opens up, on the video screen there is a video tip segment on how the RCBS X die works. Click on that and watch it.

So then your twice fired brass can from then on be treated pretty much like straight cased semi-auto brass. Just squirt 'em with some lube (I like the Dillon lanolin/rubbing alcohol stuff), and then dump them into your casefeeder's hopper...and go to town! :smile:

Once you get that RCBS X sizer die there is no more of this on the press, trimming and then back into the press rigamorale. :smile::smile:

By the way... you do NOT need two separate .223 small base (if for an AR, small base is recommended) resizing/decapping dies. You can just buy the RCBS X-die small base in .223 . Then in the first toolhead you can have it so that it bumps the shoulders back so far, but...BUT the mandrel is screwed in the UP! position. Then for the second toolhead that you move the X die to, just remember to screw the mandrel down.

Doc Highwall

02-28-2010, 11:50 AM

The reason I have two 550's is one is set up for large primers and one is set up for small primers. And my 650 is set up for small primers.

Lloyd Smale

02-28-2010, 12:07 PM

sorry 550 lovers i can leave my 550 in the dust with a square deal and id bet in a good rythm would give a 650 with a case feeder a good run for its money due to its longer stroke. Square deals are slick little presses left set up in one caliber. Before the fire i had 5 of them and cranked out enough rounds with them to fill a good sized truck!

Shiloh

02-28-2010, 12:29 PM

WOW I appreciate all the response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might just go with a Square deal as I really cant see loading any rifle rounds on a progressive, but a 550 isn't too terribly much more

I am overly ANAL about my rifle loads and weigh every charge.

I do have a friend with a Hornady LNL. He doesn't load enough to justify a progressive press so I really cant go by what he has said. ( Had problems with it right out of the box, but Hornady fixed him up and has run without a hitch ever since)

Is it a PITA to change back and forth between .44 and .45 on one of these Square Deal presses? Should I spring for the 550?

I am not much for being a KOOL-AID drinker as most who have met me can attest. I am having a hard time finding ANYBODY who has much negative to say about a dillon machine.

Spring for the 550. If you ever decide to load rifle cartridges you have it.
The fact that you can use anyone's standard 7/8 x 14 thread rifle dies would seal the deal for me.
You can also have extra toolheads to leave your dies set up. The only thing you'll have to do
is change the primer bar from small to large. A 2 minute job

That being said, I size and prime rifle dies as a separate operations with a single stage press and hand held LEE priming tool.

I remove the Deprime/sizing die from station #1 so my procedure doesn't change.

SHiloh

mag44uk

02-28-2010, 12:30 PM

Another vote here for the Hornady LNL Auto press. Couldnt be any cheaper to swap dies and shellplate. Mine is the "older" wire ejector model and I have never had a problem with it. Also have the case feeder.
I take the primer feed apart each year and clean it.
Reloading 45acp.44 mag,41 mag and 7.62 x 39.
I use Hornady,RCBS and Lee dies. I like the Lee disc powder measure which fits too.
A mate has the 650 (fine tool )and I wonder how much all the extra tool heads cost him.
Used to have a Loadmaster..blurgh!
HTH
Tony

snake river marksman

02-28-2010, 12:30 PM

Long ago, back in the late 80's, three friends and I went together and bought a Lee Pro
1000. We were all new to metallic cartridge reloading ( I had loaded shotgun shells before). We mounted the press to a piece of 1/2" aluminium plate and C clamped the plated to what ever surface was handy to make the press portable. We loaded a LOT of 9mm and 45acp on that press. As I recall, it had some issues with primer feed, and it would frequently get out of time. The more we used it, the worse it got. HOWEVER a great deal of that could have been because some of us just forced it when it didn't work right. Plastic gears don't like to be forced.
Today, I'm in the market for a progressive to do pistol and 223. I lust after a Dillon 550b, as most everybody says they are the standard by which all other presses are measured. Each time I save up just enough money to buy one, I end up spending the money paying bills. And so I look in the want adds, and at the Midway site etc at that economically priced Lee Pro 1000 and wonder, "If I'm the only owner/operator, will it work better? What if I buy a replacement metal gear for that one that keeps failing, will that make it more reliable?"
And I look.
And I read.
And I wonder......

Tazman1602

02-28-2010, 12:51 PM

...........but as of lately have also been looking at Hornady's lock and load system also.

............still want a Forster Co-Ax for a single stage but the ole' Rockchunker has been spitting them out for 25 years now....

Colorado4wheel

02-28-2010, 01:24 PM

mpmarty

02-28-2010, 02:34 PM

Inasmuch as I only load cast boolits and most of my shooting is bottle necked rifle stuff (308, 30/284, etc.) my 550B is set up a bit differently than most:

Station 1 has a Lyman "M" die in it
Station 2 is the powder charging spot
Station 3 seats to proper OAL
Station 4 crimps with a LEE FCD

I tumble my cases after firing and then use a universal decapper to knock out the primers. Next a LEE collet neck sizer is used. I then hand clean primer pockets and reprime with a hand held priming tool. Cleaned primed cases go into storage until time to load them.

This process is for bottle neck rifle cases only. Pistol cases get treated entirely differently my 10mm and 45acp setup is as follows:

Station 1 deprime and resize (Carbide RCBS die)
Station 2 bell mouth and dump powder
Station 3 seat boolit to proper OAL (RCBS DIE)
Station 4 taper crimp (RCBS DIE)

Cases are tumble cleaned prior to processing

AZ-Stew

02-28-2010, 04:10 PM

For all intents and purposes, my Dillon 550B was given to me. A gent who was once handloading editor for American Handgunner received it for evaluation, but after writing it up had no use for it, so he sold it to me with a BUNCH of accessories for $100 in the mid 80s. My point is, I don't have a lot of money tied up in it, so my statements aren't based upon bias caused by investment $$. I have run several tens of thousands of rounds through it. I've added caliber conversions over the years and now load for 11 different handgun cartridges using it. I don't load any rifle cartridges with it. All rifle ammo is done on my 35+ year old Rockchucker, which has had hundreds of thousands of rounds loaded on it. I just can't see loading rifle ammo using a progressive. I strive for precision, not quantity. There's just too much stuff going on at the same time with a progressive for me to be totally in control of all processes. YMMV.

When it's working correctly, and there are a number of ways to have it not work correctly, the Dillon powder measure is very consistent. When it's not working correctly, some rounds don't get charged. This usually results in having to get out the cleaning rod to push a stuck bullet back into the case to clear the gun.

The deprime function is less than optimum. My press tends to throw primers everywhere, rather than having them funnel down into the clever little dump chamber that drops them into the spent primer catcher. The most frustrating ones drop into the channel where the primer slide moves back and forth. This prevents the slide from lining up properly underneath the shell plate and ties up the machine until the spent primer can be cleared.

It would be nice if there was an easier way to change shell plates and primer sizes, but I can live with what I have.

Of all the die plates I have (11), three hold Dillon carbide dies, all for auto pistols (9mm, 40 S&W and .45 ACP). The remainder hold Lyman carbide dies, all for revolver cartridges. The Dillons are 4-die sets and crimp separately from seating, while the Lymans are 3-die sets and crimp and seat in one step. No problems.

Those things said, I wouldn't trade for a different machine. I'm satisfied with Dillon.

Regards,

Stew

DLCTEX

02-28-2010, 04:35 PM

Snake River Marksman:What if I buy a replacement metal gear for that one that keeps failing, will that make it more reliable?" Is there a metal replacement gear available for the Pro 1000? Never heard of one.

Lloyd Smale

02-28-2010, 04:39 PM

mack1

02-28-2010, 05:16 PM

[[LIST]
The deprime function is less than optimum. My press tends to throw primers everywhere, rather than having them funnel down into the clever little dump chamber that drops them into the spent primer catcher. The most frustrating ones drop into the channel where the primer slide moves back and forth. This prevents the slide from lining up properly underneath the shell plate and ties up the machine until the spent primer can be cleared.
I have had the same problem with my 550 the cotter pin that holds the flipper gets bent and will not let it close so the spent primer falls where it will. replace the pin and bend so as not to bind the flipper also move the ram and make sure the pin is not cacthing on anything. I bent 3 pins before getting one gust right.

Colorado4wheel

02-28-2010, 05:29 PM

dont want to argue with you but with auto index and a much shorter stroke theres no way you can out load a square deal with a 550. Ive been loading on both of them for many many years and i know it isnt possible. the 550 is a darned good press and is in my opinion the most reliable high volume press out there with maybe the 1050 as an exception but its not fast.

It just depends on your workflow. I seat the bullet on station #2. Indexing is occuring while you are grabing the case for the next round. So there is no wasted time indexing. Most people seat the bullet on station #3. That wastes time. But your right, you don't buy the 550 for speed. Reality is you shouldn't buy the SDB for speed. Neither is a fast press. SDB to me is very small. I would miss my roller handle. I don't like the layout of the existing SDB handle and lever nearly as much as the 550. To me the way the handle pivots just feels odd now that I have used the 550 with roller for so long. Never mind I switched to the roller handle to protect my wrist and that was very helpfull. You just don't have those options with a SDB. Why limit yourself to save a couple bucks.

Lloyd Smale

02-28-2010, 06:07 PM

I see what your doing but it wouldnt work for me. i like guideing the bullet up into the die to insure its started straight in the case. I also dont like putting a big bell on my cases.

snake river marksman

02-28-2010, 06:31 PM

DLCTEX,
Lee doesn't offer a metal gear that I know of. I haven't tried, because I didn't know about such things 20yrs ago, but I think a metal gear could be found at McMaster Carr or some other supplier unless it is something totally off the wall. With the measurements of the existing gear, you should be able to find something here:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#brass-gears/=60oy9w
that would work. It looks like it would cost about $10 with shipping.

Colorado4wheel

02-28-2010, 06:44 PM

I see what your doing but it wouldnt work for me. i like guideing the bullet up into the die to insure its started straight in the case. I also dont like putting a big bell on my cases.

You don't need a big bell. I use the mid point of the bell Dillon recommends (whatever that is I would have to look it up). You also can still guide the bullet into the case as you just finished indexing and your hand is right there. The savings is you already have grabbed the bullet and placed it in the case before indexing. Otherwise you index and then grab the bullet, or try and index with the bullet in your hand.

jimb16

02-28-2010, 07:55 PM

I'm a Dillon fan too. I've got 2 550Bs one set for large primers and the other for small. I prep my rifle cases on a single stage so it was interesting to see someone using the priming station for the Lyman M die. Great idea!

Duck45LC

03-01-2010, 07:47 PM

new to this forum and reloading. i have been loading on a 550b but i am interested in a lock n load progressive as well. To those that own one: are the LNL bushings in the press(female end) replacable or are you just screwed if the get worn out. Obviously the die bushings are replaceable but are the ones in the press replacable. If not with the dillon toolhead being replacable i would have to say they have a great advantage in the longevity department.

Down South

03-01-2010, 09:58 PM

I don't know beans about an L&L or a 650. I have a RL550B and just bought a second one. The 550 does a great job or I wouldn't have bought the second one. They are pricey but do a great job.
I do hear a lot of good stuff about the L&L though. I’m not sure if all factors are taken into account if it could beat a 550 even with the cheaper price and a hand full of free bullets.

Southern Son

03-02-2010, 08:06 AM

AZ-Stew, Have you tried adjusting the decapping pin in the sizing die? Mine was doing it for a while then when I put some new dies In the press (same calibre, different brand) it stopped. The only thing that I can think of is that the old decapping pin was at a different depth and that was causing it.

Firebird

03-04-2010, 02:34 AM

There is another progressive press, and while it hasn't caught on very well, it is by far the best - the RCBS Pro-2000. This press has 5 die stations and is available with either manual or auto indexing. It comes with the allen wrenches needed to do it's adjustments, but you need to supply the open-end wrenches to finish assembly of the handle etc. Comes with the bullet tray and completed cartridge bins, you don't have to pay extra like you do with a Dillon.
Used primers getting everywhere? Not on a 2000, they go down into a cup that can easily hold several hundred. Keep the tube clean by running a 22 caliber cleaning brush through occasionally and the primers don't stick or hang up.
Yes, it uses the APS priming system, and the press comes with the tool and several strips of both sizes and many colors to load any make of primer into the strips so you aren't restricted to CCI primers. The primer strips are pretty expensive, unless you buy CCI primers already in the strips; but once you do you can keep reloading the strips all you want. Unfortunately with the primer shortages the APS loaded primers aren't available from CCI, hopefully they will be soon as it seems inventories of primers are slowly starting to appear in stores again.
Changing primer sizes - takes maybe a minute if you are slow getting the new primer size adjusted.
Change calibers - by far the fastest. Change the die plate in maybe 5 seconds, change the shell plate in 30 seconds or so if you get an extra allen wrench and cut it down to make it easy to spin inside the frame without hitting the powder measure etc. Yes, changing the powder in the measure is a pain, but that's true of all of the systems and I probably just notice it more with the 2000 since the other changes (caliber & primer size) are so easy to do. The press comes with a Uniflow measure and both the rifle and pistol drums; and the micrometer adjustment screw so that if you keep track of the settings it is fairly quick and easy to reset to the load you want. As with any progressive, always check the weight of the powder being dispensed every ten cartridges or so, and be prepared to pull bullets if you find a load that's off more than one or two tenths of a grain.
I haven't loaded a bottle neck rifle cartridge in mine yet, so I don't know about runout and OAL changes. My pistol cartridges (32 Magnum, 41 Magnum, 44 Special and 45 ACP) haven't shown any problems in this area; but I haven't really looked for them either.

GMT210

03-04-2010, 08:05 AM

Take a look at this comparison that was done. I was in the same boat you are last year. After reading the article I felt like I at least had a sound understanding of how the presses operate. I ultimatele bought the Horhady and have no regrets.

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

GMT

Dutchman

03-04-2010, 08:39 AM

I've been handloading for about 17 years . 99% of what i've loaded has been on a RCBS partner and Rock Chuckar presses.

I did have a real ********* lee progressive at one point but the relationship was short lived.

I am looking at getting a progressive at this point as I cant keep up witht he volume that me and the boys need since I started casting.

Primary calibers will be 45acp and 44 mag. Might need .223 in the future as well, but will probably do those on the single stage.

What do you fellers/ ladies recommend? Loading 500-800 rounds a week has gotten to be a pain on the rock chucker.

I'm not even going to read the 4 pages of replies.

In 1984 I bought a new Dillion 450b. Best $235 I ever spent. That sucker can load 500 rds an hour with very little practice if you do everything right. You may not be able to load that 2nd 500 rds in the 2nd hour but you will get 500 rds in one hour.

The only die problem I've ever had is with the Lee .45 acp sizing die and that was an old one with short outside thread length. I bought just the Dillion .45 acp carbide sizing die. No problems with other dies ever.

I also use a Lee 4 hole turret. No problems or complaints. Been handloading 42 years.

Dutch

Master Mariner

03-04-2010, 09:24 AM

I have been loading several handgun calibers on this blue beauty.

While i was in Glock competition, I would shoot up to 800 rounds per week.

The Dillon 650 is smooth and rugged.

I load my rifle rounds with a basic Lee press, because i want the ten bullets through one hole at 100+ yards.

EDK

03-04-2010, 10:21 PM

I started "back in the stone age" with a LYMAN turret press for handgun ammo. I bought a SQUARE DEAL for my 45 Autos and loved it. When I went to shooting mostly revolvers, I bought a 550 (1988?) and re-did the SD to 357...then sold it. Two years ago I worked a large amount of overtime and said "the primer switch is a PITA" and bought another 550. New machine is set up for Large primers and the older one for small. Problem solved.

Get a DILLON 550B, but buy DILLON dies for it. Other brands will work, but can you say "PITA!" The aggravation...and ruined cases...slow down your production rate.

:redneck::cbpour::Fire:

fredj338

03-05-2010, 12:44 AM

I think the other alternative that might work is where the two pins are that secure the toolhead into the press could be drilled and tapped for set screws (long and skinny screws) and then those could be tightened down to clamp the toolhead...to keep it from moving around.
All you need to do is turn the tool head over & put a dimple on each side. This small dimple will hold the tool head in place in the race way. Small metal shims are another easy approach. Make sure the shell plate is at minimal tolerance & locked down & OAL is as repeatable as any.
As to speed, I like to talk about sustained rate, not loading for 1min & mutliplying by 60, that is not likely sustainable. Most can do an honest 400-500rds/hr on a 550B, about the same on the LNL w/ case feed, 600-700 on a 650 w/ case feed. That is hour after hour rate. Even when I was shooting 2K rounds a month, I did not need anymore press than the 550B. I could load all my ammo in 1hr a week. GUys that buy the 1050 do it because they can. Is it a better machine than a 650, maybe for a select few, but a 650 will do it w/ a bit less complication.