340gr H-110 starting charge w/.44mag?

[the_ursus]

Getting ready to do some testing with h-110 and 340gr cast in my SRH. I thought 17 grains would be a good place to start since I had a hard time finding data.

Sound good?

[Rocky Raab]

Well, H110 doesn't like to be compressed, and it doesn't like to have airspace, so that pretty much means that the min and max load is right to the base of the bullet. Measure from the base to the crimp groove, fill the case to that level, and see what happens.

I am NOT saying such a load is safe, mind you. I don't know either way. I'm only saying that IF is it safe, that will be the load with H110.

[the_ursus]

I just found on the Hodgdon site they recommend a 19grain starting charge 330 cast and 17.5grain starting charge for 350 cast. According to that if I split the difference it would start out closer to 18 grains.

I'm too scared to fill the case for a starting load, I know I can get at least 21grains in there.

[yondering]

Well, H110 doesn't like to be compressed, and it doesn't like to have airspace, so that pretty much means that the min and max load is right to the base of the bullet. Measure from the base to the crimp groove, fill the case to that level, and see what happens.

This is NOT correct, and is very bad reloading advice. Please don't do this!
Rocky, you should know better!

[gray wolf]

Originally Posted by Rocky Raab
Well, H110 doesn't like to be compressed, and it doesn't like to have airspace, so that pretty much means that the min and max load is right to the base of the bullet. Measure from the base to the crimp groove, fill the case to that level, and see what happens.

This is NOT correct, and is very bad reloading advice. Please don't do this!
Rocky, you should know better!

I am glad someone corrected that statement.
Please go by the book--at least to start Eh.

[Rocky Raab]

As I emphasized, I have no idea what that charge weight would be or if it would be safe to shoot. But it IS true that H110 does not perform well either compressed or with airspace.

If you cannot get nearly a full case (to bullet base) with a recommended charge of H110, then H110 may not be a suitable powder for that cartridge/bullet combo.

[the_ursus]

Well I know I'm going to have air space in my starting charge. I'd rather have some air in there to start with rather than a FULL case to start with.

I did notice and appreciate Rocky's disclaimer.

[lwknight]

A starting load with H110 and a 240 grain bullet is @ about 90% capacity and the 340 grain bullet should be even less. A 100 percent capacity charge is only needed with 240 or less grain bullets and is maximun.

[Glen]

Actually, for a staight-walled pistol case that is 1.29" long, Rocky's advice is pretty much right on the money (obviously it would be very dangerous to do something like that in say a .30-06). It is also worth considering that the original poster specified that these loads were for a Ruger Super Redhawk, one of the strongest .44 Magnum revolvers ever built. In fact, Cameron Hopkins (at that time the editor of American Handgunner) went into print saying that one could not put enough slow-burning pistol powder (e.g. 2400, H110, 296, etc.) into a .44 Magnum case, and still be able to seat a bullet on top of it, to hurt a Ruger SRH.

I have loaded heavyweight cast bullets in the .44 Magnum and I used 17.5 grains of 296 with 350 grain cast bullets with complete satisfaction. Keep in mind that heavyweight bullets may have VASTLY different seating depths and a good load for one may not be safe for a different bullet design, even if they are the same weight.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44OverWeight.htm

Basically, Rocky's advice is good -- measure the case volume of a .44 Magnum case with your bullet seated and crimped and then work up a 296 load that fills that case volume. I suspect that you'll end up with 17.5 or 18.0 grains and you'll get about 1200 fps.

[lwknight]

You can bust a Ruger cylinder with 2400. Thats why its good to have your glasses on when setting the scales. Ruger replaced the cylinder free of charge and no shipping.

[yondering]

In fact, Cameron Hopkins (at that time the editor of American Handgunner) went into print saying that one could not put enough slow-burning pistol powder (e.g. 2400, H110, 296, etc.) into a .44 Magnum case, and still be able to seat a bullet on top of it, to hurt a Ruger SRH.

I've read this before too. It may be true for some bullets, but is not true for all bullet weights across the board, which was how Rocky's post reads.
I have more experience with 45 Colt, also in Ruger's; you can get into some pretty high pressures by following Rocky's advice. Will it blow up the gun? I don't know, but charges can easily be over max published data by that method. I'll measure specific charge weights tonight if you don't believe me.

On the other hand, the little 22 Hornet in a modern action does seem to handle as much H110 as you can get in the case under the bullet.

[Rocky Raab]

Ahh, I see where the red flags arose. My words would have been highly improper if I had meant them for all bullets - or even all cartridges and guns.

But I was replying to the VERY specific conditions of gun, cartridge and bullet listed in the original post. And to those conditions only.

I hope that's clear. (And I'm grateful to those who read my words correctly and agreed with them.)

[yondering]

But I was replying to the VERY specific conditions of gun, cartridge and bullet listed in the original post. And to those conditions only.

OK, I see what you meant. Sorry for jumping on you.

Just for fun, I checked some charge weights for the 45 Colt with H110 last night, based on using all the air space behind the bullet. (I don't have any heavy .44 bullets or I would try that too.) With the case filled to the base of the bullet with H110, I found the following:

360gr NEI - 26gr H110
300gr Lee, forward crimp groove - 26gr
300gr Lee, rear crimp groove - 29gr
280gr LBT WFNGC - 31gr :shock:

All of these are significant over charges in a six shot Ruger revolver. For anyone glancing through this post, DO NOT USE THIS DATA.

I think this shows pretty conclusively that the above described method of determining H110/296 charge weights should not be used in the 45 Colt. If somebody could tell me base to crimp groove dimensions for some heavy .44 bullets, I'll check those too, just out of curiosity.

[r6487]

www.reloadammo.com

325 grain bullet h110 20.0---22.0 grains
350 grain bullet h110 17.5---18.8 grains

[Lloyd Smale]

my go to load with a 330 was 19 grains but i guess about 18 would be a good starting place. 22 in the bisley i was using was flattening primers. This bullet did have two crimp groves and had to be seated to the deap one in a super. Im sure you could add a grain and seat it out in my redhawk.

[the_ursus]

Update:
I finally got up to the range to do some testing with the 340's and h-110. I started at 17 grains and ended with 21 with no flattened primers. Then final charge of 21 got my group down to 2.75" @ 50yds which is good but I think it will do better. I plan on working up the charge in half grain increments and see if the group will shrink. Recoil was healthy but not painful at all.

Oh, of all the cast I've shot through this revolver, these bullets leave the barrel the cleanest. No scrubbing, only a patch with solvent after 30 rounds!

I love my super redhawk!!

[the_ursus]

Update: Charges of 21.5 and 22 were no good. Groups opened up to 5-6" on both loads. Primers started flattening at 22.

21 grains it is....