44 mag for lever and handgun

[healey55]

Ok.. New here but been shooting 44 mag handguns and cast bullets for decades.

A couple of years ago I bought a Henry Big boy and my brother bought a marlin, both in 44 mag.

I was a little miffed that my favorite 250 grain Kieth load would not work in the lever guns as it was too long. I had some accurate loads for it and they were also accurate in the lever guns when single loaded.

I am working up loads that will work in both the lever guns and handguns. Broke out a couple of old lee SWC molds that have a short nose and drop bullets at about 260 grains with wheel weights. They shoot pretty good so far.

I also bought molds that are round nose flat point and truncated cone in 245 and 285 from saeco and magma. Working on loads for them now.

I tried seating the old Keith type bullet deeper in the case (with a reduced powder charge) but don't really like the results. No crimp groove means that some of the rounds are pounded down even deeper in the case.. at least in the dummy rounds I made to check feeding. That is pretty dangerous in my book.

Anyone know why all the lever guns in 44 mag seem to be so short on the lifter or carrier or whatever?

[fecmech]

One way around this would be to use .44 spl brass, this would give you the crimp you desire and would require a powder reduction for the shorter oal. Another way is to shorten mag brass enough to feed and still another is to file back the lifter stop in the rifle to allow the longer length. If you do a search you should be able to find the "how to" for the lifter mod.

[JesterGrin_1]

Look Here :) http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7750

[healey55]

Thanks for the quick replies and the link. I do not want to use 44 special cases nor do I want to shorten my 44 brass. Don't need the confusion.

I have thought about altering the gun for a little more COL capability. The Henry is pretty new and I admit that cutting on it at this point is a bit scary.. Plus.. I would then have to do my brothers marlin for him.

[Joneser]

Scary for me too. Let us know what you decide to do.

[NHlever]

The bottom line here is that most Engineers / gun designers are not shooters, and are really not aware of what most shooters are using, or have available. To make matters worse the folks the gun companies send to the SAMMI meetings have the same problem. I had several discussions with Engineering when Ruger came out with the 77/44 but my words didn't mean much when it came to the magazine, and the gun was designed to SAMMI specs as are the Marlins, etc. I am pleased that the head Engineer at the time asked for some input on the twist, and I was able to influence the resulting 1-20" twist in the Ruger barrels.

[JesterGrin_1]

Too bad Marlin did not listen and go with the 1-20 twist in there 44. :(

[RobS]

healey:

The Henry is a PIA to load for. In my Dad's case the bullet nose length needs to be short at .320-.330 which limits an individual to a few molds or a custom mold. What Saeco and Magma bullets are you feeding your Henry, I'm interested to know and what are their nose lengths as well.

Rob

[blaster]

You would think Marlin would at least offer a 1-20 as an option. They aready stock them for the 444. All they would have to do is cut the blanks with a different chamber.

[Dixie Slugs]

Somewhere here on Cast Boolits is the spec sheet on a 265 gr Truncated Cone bullet we designed to give 100% feeding in the Marlin 94 guns. Also the length of the bullet is designed for the Marlin twist.....James

[JesterGrin_1]

You would think Marlin would at least offer a 1-20 as an option. They aready stock them for the 444. All they would have to do is cut the blanks with a different chamber.

44Man and I have talked with Marlin about the very same thing with No Joy. :(

[Corbi]

I load for a Marlin'94 in 44mag and a 4" Redhawk in 44mag. I have given up on one round working well in both guns.

For the rifle I am using a RD 265 grain bullet W/WW296. This load is no fun out of the pistol. I am planning on using a Keith type of bullet for the pistol loads W/Unique. This will give me two different looking cartridges one for the rifle and one for the pistol. This way if I get the cartridges mixed up I can tell them apart.

The Ranch Dog bullet works real well in My Marlin. If there is a group mold buy, you might consider one.

Corbi

[Rodfac]

I've had good luck with Lyman's 429215 gc sized ,.432" in both my Marlin 336 .44 Magnum and 3 Ruger single actions. The bullet is over sized for the Rugers, but I keep the loads down to 1100 fps and have had no pressure issues. That bullet will shoot 1"+ gps at 50 yds from the Marlin also from my son's 1894 .44 Magnum. From the Rugers, and one S&W M-29 Classic, it'll do the same size gps at 25 yds. The carbine loads chrono at 1300 fps.

Feeding through the Marlins is fine so long as you use a good normal cycle on the lever; slow cycling to watch the feeding sometimes allows the fwd band of the bullet to hang up. It's not a length issue, it's the fwd bullet band.

Regards, Rodfac

[EDK]

NOE has/had group buys for lube groove clones of the RANCH DOG boolits that were designed for MARLIN rifles. I've got RD originals for the 265 grainer and ordered the plain base NOE clone....I like those boolits in my VAQUEROS and MARLIN Cowboy rifles!

It's a ****-shoot on what a particular rifle will feed. So far, so good for me. I am using 429244, 429215, 429667, 427666 plus some group buy clones of 429421, in addition to the RD and 429640.

I like the inter-changeable ammo, but I load it to lower levels...mid-range ammo for this old guy's pistols. RIFLE SPECIFIC is a whole different ball game...follow Corbi and Rodfac's lead. You CAN use it in your hanggun, but I don't recommend it. John Taffin is praising the 44 Special a lot more lately...his wrists and hands are paying the price of "454/475/500 wrist wreckers!"

:redneck::cbpour::Fire:

[Rodfac]

I should reiterate one point I made earlier....If you need oversize boolits for your rifle, ie. they're over size for your hand guns, then be real careful about pressures. I use mine for practice in the rifle...and the same for pistol tho 1000 fps with a 220 gr SWC is nothing to laugh about. Hot loads demand careful study, boolits that fit your cylinder throats, and sensible charge levels. Safety is a lot more important than that last smigeon of velocity.

I use the 429215 gc only for these moderate loads...and it's the only one over size for my Rugers and Smith. For high velocity, deer killer loads, with cast boolits, I use Ranch Dogs 265 gr FP, sized only for the rifle...I don't use it in the hand guns...so identification of the rounds is easy to see. No chance of mixing them up.

JMHO, Rodfac

[MT Gianni]

My older Rossi Puma 92 feeds the 429421 and Lee 310 gr with no hesitation.

[1Shirt]

Just sold my 77/44 Ruger, and bought a older 94 Marlin. I shot the Ruger a lot less often than I will the Marlin. Appreciate the info on this thread. Will probably be shooting more Ranch Dogs out of it than any other blt.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[healey55]

I am using the 44-285 FP FB bullet mold from magma. I believe it is the exact same as the lazer cast bullet in 300 but with a flat base instead of a bevel base. it comes out at 1.600 COL and feeds very well.

I also use the saeco 245 flat point round nose which comes out at a tad longer overall but feeds well and is very accurate.

The lee molds that work are the newer SWC 240 tumble lube one and a couple of older lee non tumble lube SWC that come out to about 1.600 and weigh about 260 grains in wheel weights

[DistRifle]

My Marlin 1894 feeds the 429421 sized .431. It's an Ideal mold. It shoots them into 1.25" at 50yds with either 12gr HS-7 or 19gr 2400. I've shot both these loads in my S&W 29. Groups were as good as I can shot it.

[RobS]

I am using the 44-285 FP FB bullet mold from magma. I believe it is the exact same as the lazer cast bullet in 300 but with a flat base instead of a bevel base. it comes out at 1.600 COL and feeds very well.

I also use the saeco 245 flat point round nose which comes out at a tad longer overall but feeds well and is very accurate.

The lee molds that work are the newer SWC 240 tumble lube one and a couple of older lee non tumble lube SWC that come out to about 1.600 and weigh about 260 grains in wheel weights

Thanks,

I'll pass this on to my father.

If you are looking for a heavier mold with a gas check then the Lee 310 crimped on the shorter COAL crimp grove feeds without a hitch in the Henry Big Boy.

[healey55]

Thanks for all the advice but, even tho I have loaded ammo for 30 years or so and cast for a couple of decades on and off.. I am not sure what bullets you guys are talking about when you just rattle off the mold/manufacturer number.

What are the shape and weight of some of these bullets and what is the COL on em?

The magma is a long bullet at 290 grains in WW metal but it crimps real high. short overall length. I believe that lazer uses the same mold for their 300 TC.. at least they look identical.

[RobS]

healey55:

here is a link to midwayusa regarding the Lee 310 mold.

Double cavity:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=511417

Six Cavity:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=949198

I can't give you a COAL as I do not reload for 44 mag, but I can give you the nose length as I have a few of them down stairs
.323 nose with top crimp groove
.395 nose with bottom crimp groove

Add these to the length of your brass and you'll be close.

[Lloyd Smale]

best luck ive had in my marlin p is with the rcbs 240 swcgc. Its a great shooting 44 bullet in about every 44 i own

[chaos]

best luck ive had in my marlin p is with the rcbs 240 swcgc. Its a great shooting 44 bullet in about every 44 i own

My marlin is not Ported but likes the exact same slug

[cajun shooter]

Have you tried using the Lee Factory Crimp Die? That's what a lot of lever action action shooters use when using bullets that don't have nor line up with the crimp groove. I use them to load all of my Cowboy Action loads for Rifle and revolver. The die will put a crimp broove of it's own in the bullet. I load the 427098 in my 44-40's for my 1873. Because of the short carrier I have to deep seat the bullets and the Lee FCD works wonders. It is the best and cheapest way to fix your problem.Later David

[healey55]

Thanks again guys. I measure overall length since it is simpler I need something in the 1.600 range.

I have an RCBS mold that is a 245 SWC and is very much a keith type and it is too long to feed.

I don't like gas check bullets. I don't have much experience at shooting them without GC tho. I figure that if I have to buy gas checks.. why not just buy jacketed bullets?

[healey55]

cajun. I don't have that die. I did try to crimp above the groove but most Keith type bullets have a very narrow band ahead of the crimp groove.. even on the dummy rounds I made the bullet was getting set back from repeated cycling of the action. I do not want to risk a short, too high pressure round.

[WyrTwister]

Ok.. New here but been shooting 44 mag handguns and cast bullets for decades.

A couple of years ago I bought a Henry Big boy and my brother bought a marlin, both in 44 mag.

I was a little miffed that my favorite 250 grain Kieth load would not work in the lever guns as it was too long. I had some accurate loads for it and they were also accurate in the lever guns when single loaded.

I am working up loads that will work in both the lever guns and handguns. Broke out a couple of old lee SWC molds that have a short nose and drop bullets at about 260 grains with wheel weights. They shoot pretty good so far.

I also bought molds that are round nose flat point and truncated cone in 245 and 285 from saeco and magma. Working on loads for them now.

I tried seating the old Keith type bullet deeper in the case (with a reduced powder charge) but don't really like the results. No crimp groove means that some of the rounds are pounded down even deeper in the case.. at least in the dummy rounds I made to check feeding. That is pretty dangerous in my book.

Anyone know why all the lever guns in 44 mag seem to be so short on the lifter or carrier or whatever?


I had been casting for .44 Mag handgun for several years . But the SWC I had been casting feed poorly in my .44 Mag lever gun .

Bought a Lee 6 cavity RNL mold , feeds great . But it is a ~ 240 grain mold .

My experience with " standard " weight RNL & RNFP molds , for lever guns , has been good .

God bless
Wyr

[29yrsreload]

There is a good picture of assorted 44 bullets with mold numbers on page 1 of post "Changes in .Lyman 429421", http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3352488/1

I use the Lyman 429421 bullet in my Marlin 1894 Cowboy. The bullet my mold casts looks very much like the one in the link above, and weighs about 254 grains with wheelweights and an extra 2% tin. As a previous poster stated, it feeds well as long as the action is cycled normally. When crimped in the crimp groove, overall cartridge length is about 1.705 inches. As crimped, bullet length in front of the case is about .435, and nose length from the front edge of the front driving band is about .315

Hopes this helps a bit.