Can lead break my barrel?

[shootinxd]

Been casting for couple months,broke my stock barrel,and an aftermarket barrel.My stocker had several thousand rounds so I am not sure if wear and tear had any effect,but a new stainless?
175grn tc lee boolit,5.5 grains of #5 accurate.seat to fit the camber of 1.089" almost not crimp at all.no sign of leading,dont seem to be heavy hitting.crono at 900fps.Just had it fail at the end of 3gun.:evil::evil::evil::evil:
Has anybody else seen this,I have been reloading for better than 2 yrs without having any issues with gun or reloads.155 grn berrys plated,7.2 grns #5 no issues!!!!!

[HammerMTB]

What do you mean, "broke" your barrel? The term is too generic. Pics would be helpful.
In and of itself, lead cannot "break" a barrel. But since there are a lot of factors involved here, the devil is in the details.

[shootinxd]

Here are some pics.Thanks

[shootinxd]

The details are pretty ugly ,uh.

[thx997303]

I would say that your loads are too hot for your recoil spring, and that lug is slamming against the locking block. Heavier recoil spring ought to help.

[shootinxd]

This is the starting load for #5,can I go lower?(would save on powder)

[jdgabbard]

I would say something is definitely amiss... I would get a heavier spring, and look at a different load all together....

[HammerMTB]

If both your barrels broke like this, that is really bad.
Even if just the one did, it appears you have a load that is significantly stronger than your recoil spring.
I shoot the same boolit, but use a load of AA#5 to make major PF in a 40S&W.

My pet load is about 975 FPS, give or take a bit.
They also get seated to 1.135, which will give lower pressures.
Is your barrel badly leaded when you finish a shoot?
Any signs of pressure from the brass?
Any other notable battering of the frame or parts?

[shootinxd]

No pressure signs on brass or primers.No barrel leading or anything.felt good til it quit.Corno at 900fps.First barrel broke at 6.1grn #5.Crono at 1045fps (max)so I dropped down to 5.5 I had been shooting 5.8 for awhile.Scale just checked weighted.Just checked 1 that i pulled aprt,really close to the 5.5grns.this is starting to cramp my style if ya know what i mean.

[OLPDon]

Not a good thing for sure. If it were me I would have gunsmith do a once over on it before any else get damaged or injury.
Heart breaking to say the least. Keep us informed.
Don

[shootinxd]

I am not so sure 175grn boolit is going to work.who else makes a mold say 155grns.I can't have this!Is there another load that I am overlooking?This casting is addictive(800) that is was going to load up tomorrow.

[ScottJ]

Go to http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/tapioca.html and read though the rest of his website about using AA #5.

I love Accurate powder from my experiences building rifle loads with it so when I first start to load .45 ACP and 9MM I went with #5.

After reading the stuff at TGZ about setback and what it can do I'm thinking of switching to other powders and use what little #5 I have left for revolver stuff.

Problem is I have about 250 9MM j-word loaded over #5. Just a little .45 ACP.

[HammerMTB]

I am not so sure 175grn boolit is going to work.who else makes a mold say 155grns.I can't have this!Is there another load that I am overlooking?This casting is addictive(800) that is was going to load up tomorrow.


The 175 may well NOT work for you. It is a bit difficult to load properly, and is deceptive in some ways.
What I mean:
The TC tapers to full boolit dia. If I got to do the design, I would have a small SWC step at the base of the TC. Then they could be loaded to max COAL. I don't know of anyone with a stock chamber that can load these to max COAL. They always have to be shortened. The big deal with that is that the cartridge chamber pressure rises as the boolit is seated deeper. It makes me wonder- have you looked at a few of these after they are chambered and removed? Could it be that the boolit is being driven deeper by feeding?
If you need to make major PF, you can do it with a 155 boo, too. Lee makes a 145, I think. If you want to design your own, look at Mountain Molds. You can make anything your mind can dream up....
One other Q- are you sizing these?

[thx997303]

I see that you are essentially not crimping. Your boolits may be setting back.

[yondering]

What recoil spring weight do you have in the gun? I wonder if you have either a really light spring, or a really heavy spring. A really light spring will let the slide slam back too hard and batter the barrel lug; a really heavy spring will slam the slide closed too hard. Either one could cause the barrel problem you have.

I had this same thing happen once with a Taurus PT945, the cause was a combination of 10,000+ rounds through the gun, and some ammo that was accidentally loaded with large rifle primers, causing an over-pressure situation. Fortunately Taurus replaced the barrel with no problem.

Can you post some better close-up pictures of the fracture surfaces? We can tell you more about what happened from the appearance of the broken area.

[sagacious]

I have seen those lugs sheared off before. In the instances I have seen, it was a case of a range rental gun that was shot a lot. When the dual spring recoil assembly gets fatigued, simple battering of the barrel locking lug against the locking block can definitely shear off the locking lug.

A quick check of your loading recipe does not indicate anything amiss. But this does not preclude a problem caused by reloads, though.

One does not need to shoot heavy loads for this to happen-- simply shooting a whole lot of target-level or mid-level loads can cause it. I know, these guns are supposed to run for zillions of rounds with no maintenance, etc, and perform flawlessly. Maybe some individual guns last forever, but these breakages do show up in the real world. I have seen the same breakage in Glocks, HK USPs, and SIGs in several calibers. My assessment is that many of these breakages may simply be caused by fatigued or damaged springs.

So, OK, what does one do about it? If it were my pistol, I'd send it back to Springfield with a note about your experience, as the XD owner's manual specifically advises to send back an XD with a damaged barrel. I'd be honest and admit that you were using handloaded ammunition-- factory gunsmiths appreciate the real story, whatever it is. This step will insure that there's nothing wrong with the barrel/loading block geometry that could exacerbate the locking lug battering.

Next, are you using the captive dual-spring assembly or an aftermarket spring, or does your specific XD model not use the dual spring? The dual spring is specifically designed to reduce locking lug battering. You should perhaps consider replacement of the spring assembly on a yearly basis since it only costs $20. A semi-auto pistol is 100% dependent on it's springs for proper function.

Hope this helps, best of luck! :drinks:

[mike in co]

I see that you are essentially not crimping. Your boolits may be setting back.

bingo!!!!!

move the bullet and pressure spikes.....

load the gun with 10 rounds shoot 7

take out the mag and measure the oal of the 2 remaing rounds.

the powder and the load does not produce enough pressure to break the gun unless the lug has a flaw( both bbls from the same place ??)

for those wondering about 5, i shoot a ton of it.
i do not shoot it in 45 acp, i use aa2 with a 230 lrn at 800 fps.

not sure what your issues have been with aa5, but i have shot for years with aa5/135 g bullet/boolits at 1300/1200 fps......lost more brass from flying out of here than from splits.

i still shoot it in 9 mm with 135 nosler(357 bullet) and 115 hp's.

mike in co

[wizard93]

Any time a barrel is replaced, the springs should be replaced too. My bet is on the springs.

wizard93

[mike in co]

Go to http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/tapioca.html and read though the rest of his website about using AA #5.

I love Accurate powder from my experiences building rifle loads with it so when I first start to load .45 ACP and 9MM I went with #5.

After reading the stuff at TGZ about setback and what it can do I'm thinking of switching to other powders and use what little #5 I have left for revolver stuff.

Problem is I have about 250 9MM j-word loaded over #5. Just a little .45 ACP.

based on what FACTS ??
I read, there are no facts that the aa5 powder has any resposibility in the blow up.

go read it again( i read it cause i shoot a lot of 5, and at medium to high pressures.)

if he only shot 2, were the others in the mag ? what is thier oal ?
miss that 7.5 by a tenth ot two( easy to do with a beam scale), set the bullet back 30 thou and into some high pressure.......over max.......

with all those pics...why no bbl pics ?......the way the gun is broken i'd go for out of battary ignition...detonation with some of the case out of the chamber.

load your ammo correctly and its not an issue....crimp to prevent set back.

i use to shoot 7 in 40 when i shot 180/175, but when i went to 165 i went with 5 in my 40. no issues......

a not if you cannot get your crimps right, consider loading a volume of powder that fills the case.
yes you will have to search and try stuff....but much harder to set back if the case starts at 100/102% full......

mike in co

[shootinxd]

Thanks to EVERYONE for all the suggestions!I have ALOT of checking to do,you guys have given me plenty to do.Rest assured I will.The springs are dual type(stock),cast boolit shows aprox .001" indentation.I will be sending my XD back to springfield as suggested to make sure this doesnt happen again.The aftermarket barrel will also go back.I would have thought running them thru the crono would have shown an over-pressure problem.I did this in stages from 5.6-6.1 grns.with not alot of change.My low was 899fps,with a high of 1024fps in 10 shot groups.I clean my gun after every shoot,no more than 200 rnds.I was sooo happy to have cured the leading issue i thought all was good.Yes i do run them thru a sizing die.I will be check the rounds that were still in the mag when i unloaded to make safe,to see if some set back has happened.

[wiljen]

get new springs. The 5.5gr load only generates roughly 16,000 PSI per QL at your OAL. NO way that barrel should look like that unless you just didnt have a spring in it that could take any pressure or your bullets are retreating under recoil. If you replaced the barrel and kept the same springs, that is why the 2nd one did the same thing. Other thing, Have a smith check the frame to make sure the battering hasnt damaged it beyond the point of being safe. If it broke the linkage, its likely broken or weakened the slide stop too.

Your #s indicate a problem to me. QL says 5.5gr at 1.089 with the Lee 175 TC should be 16,000 PSI at 775fps. to get that load to 900fps, I have to shorten the round to .985 which drives pressures up to 38,000 PSI (Above SAAMI Max). I'd run a mag through the gun without pulling the trigger and measure the lengths after they have been through the action. Something dont fit.

[Spudgunr]

Maybe I missed, but have checked the bore size on both of your barrels? I wouldn't THINK that a thousandth or two would make a huge difference with lead, but maybe?

[shootinxd]

Bore of the stock barrel was .4015 ish,new is right at .395.that why i started to resize.stock barrel leaded up when cast were sized.so i just loaded as cast,leading gone,bollits were cast .4035-.404.

[shootinxd]

Just checked the bullets from the magazine at time of failure and yes they 1.089-1.092 and fit the camber with barrel removed just flush and almost fall out when barrel is inverted.

[243winxb]

.I will be check the rounds that were still in the mag when i unloaded to make safe,to see if some set back has happened. Set back happens when the nose of the bullet hits the feed ramp and the bullet is pushed deeper into the case. If your bullets are that much ovesize, i dont see set back happening.

[243winxb]

I have been reloading for better than 2 yrs without having any issues with gun or reloads.155 grn berrys plated,7.2 grns #5 no issues!!!!! Seems lead broke your barrel.
new is right at .395.that why i started to resize.stock barrel leaded up when cast were sized.so i just loaded as cast,leading gone,bollits were cast .4035-.404. Your bullet are .008" to .009" larger than groove diameter??

[ghh3rd]

I see that you are essentially not crimping. Your boolits may be setting back.

I haven't been at this very long, but have read lots and lots of posts, and recognize the statement above as being one to look out for.

I crimp until I see the crimp, and then add just a little more to reduce the risk of my boolit setting back and causing a pressure spike.

Good luck in resolving the problem.

Randy

[shootinxd]

Thanks wiljen,
I think u are onto something.i will contact u as soon as i find out.maybe the weather will clear to shoot some 9mm.again Thanks

[Walt]

It may even be more than the minimal crimp.....your expander may be to large/out of spec.

[sleeper1428]

While it's anecdotal evidence only, I've been loading for my Glock 22 since the time of its purchase in the early 1990s and the only powder I've ever used is AA#5. The amounts vary, of course, depending upon which cast boolits I'm using - 155gr SWC (SAECO), 175gr SWC (SAECO), 175gr TC (SAECO), 175gr RFN (Lyman) or 175gr TC (Lee) - but are generally in the range of 6.0 to 7.0gr. One of my most accurate loads is 6.5gr of AA#5 behind the old Lyman 38/40 175gr RFN boolit sized 0.401 and with a COL of 1.125. As noted above, I've had this handgun for close to 20 years and have shot thousands of cast rounds through both the stock barrel and a Lone Wolf aftermarket barrel purchased last year. I haven't changed the recoil spring and I've never had a problem such a the one described in the original post. With all this in mind, I have to agree with those who have suggested that this may be a problem with inadequate crimping thus allowing recoil to drive the boolits in the mag deeper into their cases and increasing the pressure which in turn will put added stress on the recoil spring and recoil lug.

Maybe it's just that I'm lucky and that I got my Glocks back when they were a 'new' item and perhaps had a bit better quality control and higher quality materials. I only say this because I also have a very early Glock 20 that has also seen extensive use without a single problem while there have been many reports of fractures developing around the metal guides and recoil bar on newer Model 20s. While this isn't directly related to the problem in question, it does offer another possibility that needs to be explored, that being, of course, if the fracture lines on both barrels show any indication of old metal fatigue or manufacturing defects.

sleeper1428

[fredj338]

I am not so sure 175grn boolit is going to work.who else makes a mold say 155grns.I can't have this!Is there another load that I am overlooking?This casting is addictive(800) that is was going to load up tomorrow.
It's not the load or the bullet. Something else is wrong. Have you changed recoil springs, maybe gone lighter? That just shouldn't happen. I have never had a bll, on any caliber, even hot 10mm do that. I doubt bullet setback too. That bbl is nopt KB, it's broken. An over pressure would blow someplace in the chamber, not knock the lug off. The only other thing I can think of is wrong recoil spring. One reason I never change to a lighter spring to shoot a reduced load. I load to the gun, not change the gun to the load. Invariablely you'll have the wrong spring in at the wrong time.

[sagacious]

Hot loads, or set-back bullets are not required to cause locking lug failure. The XD in question had a captive dual-spring recoil assembly. The dual spring is designed to allow unlocking of the breech under less spring tension, and then cushion and slow the slide under much heavier spring tension.

That dual spring system prevents the locking lug and frame from damage by the occasional very heavy load, or even repeated use of very heavy loads. As an example, a similar dual spring system is what allows the 45ACP HK USP-series pistols to use +p and +p+ ammunition. (this is not a recommendation of hot loads, consult your firearm's user manual for ammo compatibility.)

The photo below shows what happen may when a pistol with a fatigued recoil spring assembly is shot a lot with standard-velocity factory ammo (primarily Federal and Winchester). In this case the shooter noticed that the slide was slightly askew, and ceased firing. One more shot would undoubtedly have sheared the recoil lug. This was not my gun, it was a range gun, and range guns see a lot of use. I have collected several more barrels from various makers that show the same locking lug failure-- enough rounds with a fatigued recoil spring, and breakage will likely occur.

Plain old wear-and-tear can cause mechanical breakage, though we often want a more provocative explanation than that. Periodic spring replacement is cheap and good insurance.

Hope this helps, best of luck with your pistol. :drinks:

[mike in co]

While it's anecdotal evidence only, I've been loading for my Glock 22 since the time of its purchase in the early 1990s and the only powder I've ever used is AA#5. The amounts vary, of course, depending upon which cast boolits I'm using - 155gr SWC (SAECO), 175gr SWC (SAECO), 175gr TC (SAECO), 175gr RFN (Lyman) or 175gr TC (Lee) - but are generally in the range of 6.0 to 7.0gr. One of my most accurate loads is 6.5gr of AA#5 behind the old Lyman 38/40 175gr RFN boolit sized 0.401 and with a COL of 1.125. As noted above, I've had this handgun for close to 20 years and have shot thousands of cast rounds through both the stock barrel and a Lone Wolf aftermarket barrel purchased last year. I haven't changed the recoil spring and I've never had a problem such a the one described in the original post. With all this in mind, I have to agree with those who have suggested that this may be a problem with inadequate crimping thus allowing recoil to drive the boolits in the mag deeper into their cases and increasing the pressure which in turn will put added stress on the recoil spring and recoil lug.

Maybe it's just that I'm lucky and that I got my Glocks back when they were a 'new' item and perhaps had a bit better quality control and higher quality materials. I only say this because I also have a very early Glock 20 that has also seen extensive use without a single problem while there have been many reports of fractures developing around the metal guides and recoil bar on newer Model 20s. While this isn't directly related to the problem in question, it does offer another possibility that needs to be explored, that being, of course, if the fracture lines on both barrels show any indication of old metal fatigue or manufacturing defects.

sleeper1428

there is something you do not understand about guns and springs.

shoot the gun... the springs wear!

failure to replace your spring in 20 years is only correct if it has just sat in the safe for those 20 years. if you have shot it as much as you say, you do not understand guns.

plain and simple...springs wear and need to be replaced on a regular basis.( they wear when they cycle).


my club ipsc 9x21 gun REQUIRES new springs every year...or it starts to have issues.


mike in co

[mike in co]

Thanks to EVERYONE for all the suggestions!I have ALOT of checking to do,you guys have given me plenty to do.Rest assured I will.The springs are dual type(stock),cast boolit shows aprox .001" indentation.I will be sending my XD back to springfield as suggested to make sure this doesnt happen again.The aftermarket barrel will also go back.I would have thought running them thru the crono would have shown an over-pressure problem.I did this in stages from 5.6-6.1 grns.with not alot of change.My low was 899fps,with a high of 1024fps in 10 shot groups.I clean my gun after every shoot,no more than 200 rnds.I was sooo happy to have cured the leading issue i thought all was good.Yes i do run them thru a sizing die.I will be check the rounds that were still in the mag when i unloaded to make safe,to see if some set back has happened.


can you look at your shot string and see if the higher velocities came later in the string.

setback can occur in the mag...simple moving of the bullet back in the case as the gun is fired.

its one of those things that must be checked in a semi auto hand gun....


mike in co

[ScottJ]

based on what FACTS ??
I read, there are no facts that the aa5 powder has any resposibility in the blow up.

go read it again( i read it cause i shoot a lot of 5, and at medium to high pressures.)


Look at the picture of the round with the set back. Speir thinks that 5 by itself is no big deal. But a loading of 5 which suffers setback can be very bad.

Elsewhere on the site (I've not been able to find it) he details some discussions with the folks at Western who confirmed that the pressure curve with 5 and reduced case dimension goes up very quickly.

Of couse pressue goes up with any powder when there's setback but stands to reason some could be less forgiving of it than others.

[sleeper1428]

there is something you do not understand about guns and springs.

shoot the gun... the springs wear!

failure to replace your spring in 20 years is only correct if it has just sat in the safe for those 20 years. if you have shot it as much as you say, you do not understand guns.

plain and simple...springs wear and need to be replaced on a regular basis.( they wear when they cycle).


my club ipsc 9x21 gun REQUIRES new springs every year...or it starts to have issues.


mike in co

Thanks, Mike, for pointing out how little you think I know about guns and springs. So in the same vein, perhaps I ought to point out that you don't appear to understand what the word 'anecdotal' means. I specifically said that what I posted was 'anecdotal' material only and I suppose I assumed that readers such as yourself would understand that this in no way meant that I was endorsing the prolonged use of springs, especially the recoil spring, in semi-auto handguns. I was simply pointing out that although I've shot literally thousands of rounds through my Glock 22 and nearly the same amount through my Glock 20, I've not had a single problem such as the original poster described. Whether this excellent service life of my recoil springs is due to a better quality spring in the early model Glocks or simply the fact that I've been exceptionally lucky, I have no way of knowing. But I can assure you that I do understand the mechanics of semi-auto handguns - my machine shop courses were taught by an outstanding gunsmith who willingly passed on his knowledge to anyone who was willing to learn - and I do understand that springs may well exhibit fatigue and a decrease in their ability to handle heavy recoil after a certain period of time and usage. What I'm trying to say is that making an assumption such as you made regarding a given person's understanding of the mechanics of firearms may come back to bite you since you have no knowledge whatsoever of that person's background, training, knowledge and experience.

sleeper1428

[ANeat]

One note on polymer framed guns, at least on Glocks and XD's, they have a metal insert for the barrel to lock up into. Most of the time its a non issue but I have heard of instances where the insert develops a crack or even has part of it come off. That can cause timing problems and problems like we see here.

A fairly rare occurance but it has happened.

Anyway, not sure if something like this may have contributed to the barrel problem. I agree with sending it back to Springfield for a checkup.

My guess is they will replace everything related, barrel, locking lug, recoil spring. Make sure the timing is as it should be and call it fixed.

Hopefully they can give you a solid reason for what happened.

[mike in co]

Look at the picture of the round with the set back. Speir thinks that 5 by itself is no big deal. But a loading of 5 which suffers setback can be very bad.

Elsewhere on the site (I've not been able to find it) he details some discussions with the folks at Western who confirmed that the pressure curve with 5 and reduced case dimension goes up very quickly.

Of couse pressue goes up with any powder when there's setback but stands to reason some could be less forgiving of it than others.


that is not because of the use of aa5, it is casued by poor crimp...not the powders fault, the loaders fault. any similar powder will show similar pressure inceases as volume decreases due to setback.


mike in co

[mike in co]

Thanks, Mike, for pointing out how little you think I know about guns and springs. So in the same vein, perhaps I ought to point out that you don't appear to understand what the word 'anecdotal' means. I specifically said that what I posted was 'anecdotal' material only and I suppose I assumed that readers such as yourself would understand that this in no way meant that I was endorsing the prolonged use of springs, especially the recoil spring, in semi-auto handguns. I was simply pointing out that although I've shot literally thousands of rounds through my Glock 22 and nearly the same amount through my Glock 20, I've not had a single problem such as the original poster described. Whether this excellent service life of my recoil springs is due to a better quality spring in the early model Glocks or simply the fact that I've been exceptionally lucky, I have no way of knowing. But I can assure you that I do understand the mechanics of semi-auto handguns - my machine shop courses were taught by an outstanding gunsmith who willingly passed on his knowledge to anyone who was willing to learn - and I do understand that springs may well exhibit fatigue and a decrease in their ability to handle heavy recoil after a certain period of time and usage. What I'm trying to say is that making an assumption such as you made regarding a given person's understanding of the mechanics of firearms may come back to bite you since you have no knowledge whatsoever of that person's background, training, knowledge and experience.

sleeper1428


so what is your excuse/reason for failing to do normal maintaince on your glocks if you know what should be done ???

sorry i think i got it right the first time.

and i'm not really picking on you...my opinon is that most semi auto owners do not do normal required maintenance...repalcing springs.....gun and mag springs.



mike in co

[shootinxd]

Accurate has asked for 20+rnds of loaded ammo,Gun has been sent back to Springfield.Got to be an asnwer somewhere in this mess.Thanks to all for your may suggestions.But lets not get into an argument over who knows what.Every opinion and suggestion has merrit.This is a Great place!

Thanks Shootin XD

[sagacious]

Sounds good, hope it works out well and gets taken care of fast.

Keep us posted with an update on the results.

[mpmarty]

Back when I owned Glocks I'd make the local GSSF match and the Glock armorer would replace springs and such annually. It's easy to check the Glock recoil springs. To do so just point the unloaded pistol straight up and holding the trigger fully to the rear ease the slide to the rear and then ease it forward until it stops. The slide should stop just short of going into battery until you release the trigger, then it should snap home into battery. This is with a clean stock pistol. If when you release the trigger it fails to go into battery you need a new recoil spring.

[Windy City Kid]

shootinxd,

I have seen a couple Springfield XD-9 barrels with chipped barrels like your factory barrel. All of the XD-9's didn't have that many rounds through them, under 10,000 rounds. Springfield Armory replaced the barrels for free in each case.

They might charge you for a new barrel if you tell them you have been shooting your reloaded ammunition in your Springfield XD.

I have a Springfield XD-9 Tactical with over 60,000 rounds through it and never had an issue like yours. I have replaced my recoil spring quite a few times, they do get tired and they are cheap.

Good luck and I hope everything works out for you.

WCK

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Trust me the Cast Boolits didn't breake your gun, me thinks you are abusing your weapons just a bit...IMHO

[sleeper1428]

so what is your excuse/reason for failing to do normal maintaince on your glocks if you know what should be done ???

sorry i think i got it right the first time.

and i'm not really picking on you...my opinon is that most semi auto owners do not do normal required maintenance...repalcing springs.....gun and mag springs.



mike in co

Well, Mike, as someone stated long ago, opinions are similar to the terminal end of the alimentary canal - everybody has one. I guess my final comment would be this - just as Glock and most other manufacturers caution against using reloaded ammo in order to protect themselves from lawsuits, if the recoil spring absolutely needs to be replaced every year in order to maintain proper function, these same firearm manufacturers would undoubtedly have included this caution long ago. The very fact that there are no such cautions listed in the Glock owners manual leads me to believe that this has not been a serious problem with these firearms nor have there been any significant legal actions against the manufacturer based on failure of the recoil spring secondary to prolonged usage. Again, just my opinion but it's based on knowing how careful firearms manufacturers are when it comes to opening themselves to lawsuits for any reason. Perhaps this could be the basis for an interesting couple of questions posed to the participants of this forum in the form of these two questions - 1) Do you routinely change your recoil and mag springs every year, yes or no. And 2) If not, how often do you change these springs and what objective (not subjective) criteria do you use for determining when to change these springs?

sleeper1428

[mroliver77]

It is my understanding that aside from neglect causing rusting, grit etc, that the plain act of shooting a gun will ruin it. Shoot it more and it will wear out faster. I don't replace every year as my autos don't get shot that much. If I was competing you bet they would be replaced at regular intervals along with other preventive maintenance. Springs are relatively cheap and I will grab some when at Perry or wherever and replace when doing a complete tear down and service when I am that bored.;).
Jay

[David2011]

Some experts tout replacing recoil springs on competition guns every 3000 rounds. I think that's a little too often but I generally replace the recoil spring in my STI about every 10,000. Magazine springs got replaced after 3 years but I won't wait that long next time. I was starting to have failures to feed in a gun that had run flawlessly for its first 2-3/4 years.

The failure in question does look like a timing or recoil spring/ battering related problem to me.

David

[sleeper1428]

Back when I owned Glocks I'd make the local GSSF match and the Glock armorer would replace springs and such annually. It's easy to check the Glock recoil springs. To do so just point the unloaded pistol straight up and holding the trigger fully to the rear ease the slide to the rear and then ease it forward until it stops. The slide should stop just short of going into battery until you release the trigger, then it should snap home into battery. This is with a clean stock pistol. If when you release the trigger it fails to go into battery you need a new recoil spring.

Thanks for the info regarding the Glock armorer's method of checking recoil springs. I just finished performing precisely that check on both my Glocks - a Model 20 and a Model 22 - both of which were purchased over 20 years ago and both of which have had many thousands of rounds put through them. And once again, while I'm certainly not suggesting that recoil springs never need to be replaced, I must tell you that both my Glocks snapped smartly into battery when the trigger was released, thus indicating, according to what you said, that the recoil spring in each handgun is still operating properly. Considering the length of time that these springs have been in use, I will most certainly continue to do that check on a regular basis and I won't hesitate to change the springs if/when they show any indication of weakening. Thanks again for the good info.

sleeper1428

[inuhbad]

My stocker had several thousand rounds so I am not sure if wear and tear had any effect...

REPLACE THAT RECOIL SPRING ASAFP!!! :Fire:

Recoil springs - ESPECIALLY those on High-Pressure cartridges such as the 40 S&W, 10MM, 45 GAP, etc... They are a CONSUMABLE part, and need to be replaced approximately every 3000 rounds! If you've fired over 5000 to 8000 rounds through your gun - you DEFINITELY need to replace it!

If you DO NOT replace your recoil springs, the slide & barrel slam into the frame block with such high force that they can damage BOTH the Frame, and the Barrel Lugs!

Springs require REGULAR replacement at specific Maintenance Intervals. That's like driving 80,000 miles on your new car, and NEVER getting an oil change! It's not good for the engine, and it's sounds like you've already REPLACED the damaged barrels twice...

Change out those recoil springs, and not only will your barrels LAST longer, but you'll have notably LESS RECOIL.

I've DESTROYED a Colt after firing only 8000 rounds through it without a recoil spring change! (As in shot it so much the WHOLE FRAME WARPED beyond reasonable repair).

Although the "Glock Armorer's Test" is commonly touted as the 'Be-All-End-All' test of a recoil spring - this is NOT TRUE. That's TESTING THE SPRINGS FOR FAILURE, whereas you should replace your springs BEFORE THEY FAIL to the point where they are dangerous!

"...according to what you said, that the recoil spring in each handgun is still operating properly." NO, THEY ARE NOT operating Properly. They are operating Minimally within a certain tolerance range!

Glocks use a Standard 17# recoil spring (IIRC, XD40 springs are 18# standard), and ALTHOUGH it will continue to function just fine between approximately 6-7 lbs... Every round you fire is REDUCING the power of your recoil spring... It's a cumulative problem! Striker fired pistols such as Glocks and Springfield XDs, S&W M&Ps, et al, are considered 'So Reliable' because the WILL fire so long as the Recoil spring is still strong enough to overcome the striker spring's pressure! Meaning, the gun WILL fire - even if the recoil spring has degraded to the point where it is only functioning around SEVEN POUNDS!!! At that point, it is still capable of locking up the barrel & slide!!! Which is also just BARELY enough to overcome the reverse pressure of the striker spring, and sufficiently lock up the barrel!

However, you're STILL firing a gun that has a recoil spring that is thus imparting the other 5 to 10 POUNDS of force into your hand through much more 'Snappy' recoil! Does this mean the gun is "Still Operating Properly" in your opinion? It's STILL FUNCTIONING, but, IMHO, it's NOT operating 'Properly', and IT IS doing damage to your barrel (particularly the bottom barrel lugs), and also doing damage to the block and frame of your handgun!

If you shoot 3000 rounds through your Glock, your recoil spring has likely reduced in effectiveness to approximately 15 or 16 pounds instead of the standard 17... If you shoot over 10,000rds you're probably MUCH closer to about 12 lbs to 14 lbs in your gun... That's a HUGE difference between 17# to soak up recoil, and 12# to soak up recoil! Remember, you WANT the gun to transfer a majority of the recoiling forces of the fired cartridge INTO THE SPRINGS - and NOT into the critical structural elements of your gun and into your hands!!! Much of the force is imparted into the barrel pivoting point, the frame block, the slide, and into your hands!

I've seen a Glock with a cracked slide... After asking the guy when was the last time you replaced your recoil spring? He looked at me like I had bugs crawling out my nose, and stood there scratching his head, "You mean, I have to replace the springs on this? I was told this gun was RELIABLE, and NEVER needed 'fixin'!"

Well, Replacing a consumable, regular maintenance item on a gun does NOT mean it needs 'FIXING' - it means it NEEDS IT FOR PROPER OPERATION. To keep the gun from further encroaching upon the bare minimum operational limits of potential failure.

[Greg5278]

What make is the barrel? Does the broken part look really crystalline, and grainy? It could be a bad run of castings, but I doubt it. The recoil spring probably needs to be heavier to prevent the battering.
Greg

[shootinxd]

Greg,I dont want to bad mounth the barrel maker til I have all the information to determine root cause of this.Barrel does look a little grainy though.

[shootinxd]

I just wanted to clear the air about Accurate #5 and the barrel issue with my XD40.Accurate just e:mailed back the results from their lab.Velocities,pressure,load amount all came back in acceptable limits and they conclude that the lead bullets,powder and charge all were well within saami limits(-28% below max).I just want to say thanks for the help,suggestions I receive here and for the level of attention I receive from Accurate powders.My gun will be back soon from Springfield,and my new barrel from Fire Dragon has arrived.I just felt much relief that it wasnt my new found hobby of casting bullets that was at fault.A special Thanks goes out to wiljen for his help and the concern he showed for my wellbeing,enough to pick up the phone and call me.The people here and related to the sport should be proud,I know I am.
Jim AKA shootin-xd