It really bothers me......

[Ben]

It really bothers me when little kids are shot ( and killed ) with their parent's handgun. When you leave a loaded pistol around young children, it is just a matter of time.............

So senseless & needless.................! ! !

I've given my son Dusty a Colt Detective Special, 38 Spec., 2 " in pristine condition.

I've also given him an insulated " double walled " fire resistant metal " Lock Box " for the pistol and ammo to stay in at all times.

I'll keep a key locked in my gun safe, and Dusty will keep a key.

I don't want my grandson to be a victim of a careless parent.

Ben

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-34.jpg

[PepperBuddha]

Good idea!

[Lead Fred]

Disagree

My parents had loaded handguns in the house as long as I was alive, and before.

Unlike the parents and kids today, we were taught at a very young age, like fire, poison, and strangers, firearms are a dont not touch thing.

My parents would leave matches, and other stuff out just to see if any of us kids would play with them.

Dont blame the kids for being curious, Its on the parents, and the designation of morality that is where the problem is.

[gray wolf]

And that pistol is supposed to be for what ?
Sounds like the pistol is for him and the lock box is for your piece of mind.
I don't agree, but if the training is lacking then I guess it is MUCH better than an accident.
I Just hope he don't need it in a hurry. It don't sound like a target gun.

[Ben]

but if the training is lacking

How exactly do you train a 10 month old child to be safe with a handgun.

I'm amazed at some of these comments ? ? ?

I was always taught that safety came NUMBER 1 !

[Echo]

but if the training is lacking

How exactly do you train a 10 month old child to be safe with a handgun.

I'm amazed at some of these comments ? ? ?

And How, exactly, does a 10-month old HANDLE a firearm?

Training can start early, but not that early. And the training is a part of overall child training, where the grownups make ALL the decisions from an early age, allowing a little more freedom of action as they grow older, until they are trained to make correct decisions (most of the time!).

[stillwell]

Disagree

My parents had loaded handguns in the house as long as I was alive, and before.

Unlike the parents and kids today, we were taught at a very young age, like fire, poison, and strangers, firearms are a dont not touch thing.

My parents would leave matches, and other stuff out just to see if any of us kids would play with them.

Dont blame the kids for being curious, Its on the parents, and the designation of morality that is where the problem is.

that is how i was raised and live now. some of my friends have kids and at times bring them to my house and when the do i pick all the wepons and put them up for the night you just never know. but i have no plans on doing that with my kids. if i tuched a gun or even thought of tuching one with out my dad right there well thats a paddling.

[shooterg]

When my daughter was young I kept the home defense piece unloaded when not in possession, but accessible, kept the loaded mag on my person. Usually had the gun on me anyway, but a locked up defensive firearm is same as not having one. A hundred things in a household could kill a 10 month old, it's never a good thing.
Buy the son a speed loader too ! Quicker than a key.

[deltaenterprizes]

I was taught to gunproof your children not make guns childproof.
Education and enforcement are the key.

[gray wolf]

You didn't say 10 month old--or did I miss that?
but you did say careless parent. I am getting confused.
If there was no dander of the child getting the gun and the lock box was to protect the family from a careless parent. Well now I realy don't understand.

[Jim]

I trained my son instead of him training me.

[rob45]

Lead Fred,

+1000

[R.C. Hatter]

I strongly disagree with the locking away of loaded firearms in the home. I raised my two children with nine loaded pistols in the house. Curious kids, playing with a firearm, most commonly are the cause of a bad accident. I took away my kids' curiosity by instructing them with firearms at an early age, teaching them how to look for cartridges in them, letting them fire them so they could see a gun's power, teaching them safe gun handling procedures, shooting WITH them, and if they just wanted to look at one, going immediately with them and allowing them to see whichever one they wanted to see. We never had any trouble in our home over firearms and our kids were 11 years apart.

[montana_charlie]

but if the training is lacking

How exactly do you train a 10 month old child to be safe with a handgun.

I'm amazed at some of these comments ? ? ?

I was always taught that safety came NUMBER 1 !
The comments amaze you because they were directed toward a misconception.

You started this by saying you had given your son a gun, a lockbox to keep it in, and his very own key.
The comments were opinions about training a youngster in a way that keeps him safe. Opinions on that vary.

Then, you spring it on us that your boy is only ten months old!
What on earth does he need a revolver for?
It'll be a couple of years before it's time to teach him how to (safely) use a steak knife to cut his own meat...and then comes slingshot safety instruction.

Yeah, you're right. Safety is number one.
So, are you gonna leave the gun loaded and the box locked until he's (like) six?

I don't understand your rush...

CM

[Ed Barrett]

I don't remember when there wasn't a loaded gun in the house when I was growing up. I was taught not to touch it until I was told to. Never had a problem. My kids grew up with a loaded gun or two in the house, I instilled in them not to use or touch it until they were old enough. The only problem was when I trained the older one, the younger bugged me everyday asking "Am I old enough now" for a year. I believe in training the child not locking up the tools weather they are guns, drills, kitchen knives, or anything else.

[Ben]

Sorry I even made a comment about this. I simply wanted to keep my 10 month grandson safe. Maybe best that I keep my thoughts to myself.

[OutHuntn84]

I'm assuming he has a grandson that is 10 months old. ( I know ass-u-me )

Safety is Rule #1 and IMHO the best way to teach safety in to teach common scenes!

I was raised with no curiosity about guns all I had to do was ask. It was not a dirty little secret hidden away just awaiting my discovery. Until we moved, I was about 10, momma says new house new rules guns are to be put up and hid away and locked up. Well guess what, curiosity got the best of my lil mind and I got to "my gun" to check it out. While making it safe(unloading it), as I was taught to do, it jammed. Put it back as safe as possible knowing I screwed up and would be busted, told my dad right as he walked through the door. He chews my rear end off sends me to my room until he can figure out what to do to/with me. Him and momma talk it over and couldn't figure out why I would do such a thing cause I never did anything like that before, so the asked. I told em the truth; I was just wondering. Well after getting one last stern talking to I got a gun rack installed in my room with my deer rifle pellet gun and 22, it even had a nifty lil lock on it so I can keep em out of idle hands and they kept the ammo. If I wanted to shoot had to get their permission. Never had a problem after that.
I plan to teach my son, who is about to turn two, the same way; as long as he shows me he has good common sense. My guns that I keep out for obvious reasons are put up and away from idle hands, but in plain sight. The first time he showed me that he was curious, about 10 months old, I asked him "ya wanna see daddy's gun" he nodded. So I sat him down, unloaded it and sat it in front of him. The whole time I was making a big thing of DADDY getting the gun and DADDY making it safe for the boy. He looked it over and was content that he got to check it out. I have done this multiple times now with my son every time I see the little wheels are turning. We have now progressed to daddy field strips it and boy as best as he can puts most of it back together or tells me how it's done (Remember the game were kids drop certain shaped pieces into certain sized holes; yea we do that with guns!).
You can't safety wrap the world, on the flip side you can't expect folks to act like and adult all the time, but you can teach them right from wrong and to use good common sense and that goes for the parents and the child.

[Hickory]

Sorry I even made a comment about this.


Ben, you do whats right for you, reguardless what others what to do.
It's you friends and family you want to protect.

Myself, I've always had loaded guns around the house.
I let my kids shoot as soon as they wanted to,as much and as often as they wanted to.
Guns were never a nolvity to them.

[Ben]

Thanks Hickory,

There will be a day for plenty of training with my 10 month old grandson, but for right now........My 28 yr. old son and I both think the lock box is the safest manner to store his revolver and ammo and prevent an accidental discharge with my 10 month old grandson.

[Springfield]

I don't worry about MY kids, it's their friends coming over to visit when they get older. So to compromise I have bought one of those fast access small bullet boxes for the home defense pistols. The rest I have in my safe in case of burglars when I'm not home.

[SharpsShooter]

You are fine Ben. The point some miss is the enjoyment of gifting a firearm to a grandson and then being a responsible enough to assure his safety so that he lives long enough for you both to enjoy it. When training time comes around, the rules may change, but for the present it is "His" gun in safe keeping


SS

[jim4065]

I have a bunch of loaded guns upstairs. My wife knows where they are, and the assorted nieces, nephews and grandkids know that the stairs are off limits and whippin' time. When I'm not here it's my wife's responsibility to keep "foreign" kids off the stairs - period. My own kids are over 30 and have their own guns and rules.

[Frank]

What about a burglar? You leave them out for them too?

[BD]

I grew up in a house with firearms. We all knew where they were and how to use them from the time we were big enough to reach the top of a dresser. Otherwise they'd have been pretty useless if dad wasn't home.

You wouldn't have caught any .45 acps from me at 8 years old. Who had time to dig around in the old mans sock drawer for an unfamiliar weapon? You'd have caught .22s or a load of 16 guage #4 shot as they were MY guns and I sure knew how to get to them in a hurry.

I have no objection to anyone's thought out system of keeping self defense firearms in the house. It's the firearms belonging to those who haven't thought it out that cause the tradgedy. Lock them up or teach your kids, or both. Just think it through, and establish your system, and enforce it.

Most of the real carnage seems to come from older kids who set out with evil intent. I've never been able to understand how thier parents lived with them in the house without getting a clue as to the evil intent. I am totally at a loss to explain the teenagers who have guns in the house, and even bomb making materials, without the knowledge of thier parents. I think the definition of "parent" must be quite different from mine in some segments of society.

My Primary self defense firearm is always on me, except in the shower or in bed when it's on the night stand. Thus no need to lock it up. I have to turn a key to get real serious, but the key is always on me. That's more about where I'm living, and burglars, than anything else. But it's also the most reliable system I've found.

BD

[geargnasher]

Do what my Dad does with small grandkids as he did with me (refer to Lead Fred's post, same beliefs and methodology), and add that he only leaves 1911-style automatics and pump shotguns out of the safe, loaded, and in condition 3. I have yet to see a toddler who is physically capable of racking the slide on a full-sized 1911 or pushing the lock release and chambering a round in a 12-gauge. Built-in toddler-proofing. By the time they are old enough to, they are teachable not to.

Gear

[Dannix]

I have yet to see a toddler who is physically capable of racking the slide on a full-sized 1911 or pushing the lock release and chambering a round in a 12-gauge. Built-in toddler-proofing. By the time they are old enough to, they are teachable not to.
That was my first thought. I keep my semi unchambered. If I really wanted to get annal I could always put a dummy at the top of the mag so the it would have to be racked twice. I know non-gunny grown women who would have some difficulty racking a slide.

I'm personally not fond of the idea of giving a gun to someone who's not ready for it. I would just wait and give it when the time came. But grandkids can make you do crazy things. ;) :)

[jim4065]

What about a burglar? You leave them out for them too?

I'm here and my dog will wake me up. :D

[stillwell]

so do you beat the burglar with the lock box or hope he doesnt find a gun in a strange house that he has never been in or only cased once

[fivegunner]

I to was raised in a diffrent time, my dad had guns and (we the kids) did not touch then. now I have a 5 year old grandson, when he is here there are NO loaded guns laying around they are in the safe`s, or on me ,I carry a gun most times. I will do my best to train Eathan, but I will take no chances.

[DLCTEX]

I respect Ben's way of gun safety for his loved ones. I don't know the people involved so can make no judgment as to how to best handle the situation. We haven't heard anything about the DIL and her feelings in the matter.Her feelings do matter and have to be respected. I raised 5 sons with loaded guns available all the time. They were always permitted to handle and shoot them whenever they asked. Of course. we lived in the country most of the time, so that was easier than for some folks. We spent 7 years as house parents to boys homes and that time was an entirely different matter. All guns were kept locked up and ammo was kept separate and hidden. Those boys were from varied backgrounds and some had emotional problems. Some were allowed to handle and even shoot my guns, but that privilege was earned. Some boys would have never gotten their hands on my guns. So, each situation is different and there is no one solution for all.

[Cherokee]

Ben - We all have opinions and on this forum, we express them. Don't take offense if we do not agree for we never know all the circumstances. Sometimes it help to reevaluate our decisions for things we might not have thought of. Have a great day....enjoy that grandson!!

[Ben]

DLCTEX , Cherokee :

Thanks for your comments ......My 28 yr. old son , his wife and I have talked about this , at length. We all feel that my 10 month old grandson's safety is paramount right now. He can't even talk right now. How can I teach him firearms safety now ? He is beginning to walk now. There is the danger he could pull out a drawer and pick up this revolver. Leaving the revolver unloaded and locating ammo in the night will take longer than inserting a key into the lock , opening the box and being able to have your hands on a LOADED pistol.

I can assure everyone here that we can teach little Trevor all about gun safety as soon as he is able to communicate with us and be of an age to be a responsible shooter.

For this narrow time window ( until my grandson reaches a responsible age ) , we feel it best to use this lock box. My son and his wife are willing to risk a short 20 second delay in being able to get the key and be able to open the lock box & get their hands on a loaded pistol if the need for self defense arises.

Thanks to all of you that have chosen to respect this concept.

Ben

[WILCO]

I don't want my grandson to be a victim of a careless parent.

I would've just kept the gun and not worried about it. A parachute only works when the ripcord is pulled by the user.

[sdelam]

I have a lock box mounted to the top of my gun cabnet. I leave the door open at night and mostly carry the gun during the day. It's high enough that the little ones cant get to it without bringing a chair from another room, (not that i think they would, they know better) but easily accesable to me.

I still have not found away to keep the shotgun easily accesable but still be out of little hands. The cheap cabnet makes a god awful racket when it's opened and it reqs a key.

[OutHuntn84]

All else aside, cause no two people think alike and not everyone will agree with everything, but I believe we can all agree on this though. You're a lucky man! Having the opportunity of ushering in two generations into this sport /culture /hobby /addiction is truly blessing. Congratulations!
The knowledge that you have passed down to your son and the combined knowledge you both will pass to your grandson, will surely be treasured memories for you all. Enjoy!

[Lead Fred]

some of my friends have kids and at times bring them to my house and when the do i pick all the wepons and put them up for the night you just never know.

You tell their parents, its then on them. Kids have NO business in YOUR bedroom.

If you have them scattered about your place. Then you need to have them up out of sight. You only need one loaded firearm in your bedroom, anything else is overkill.
Ask a Cop.

BTW they are firearms, not weapons, unless you use them as such.


And How, exactly, does a 10-month old HANDLE a firearm?


Mr YUK stickers are for kids under two. Id be more worried about them under the sink then in your bedroom.

[Ben]

OutHuntn84 :

I like your words.......hobby , addiction.

For me it is often times more of an addiction.

I think you can see my concern in this photo below ;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0001-38.jpg

[Ajax]

i have gun racks in my house. but all the guns are empty and the ammo is locked up my home self defense guns have always been and always will be shotguns. i keep one downstairs loaded but not chambered behind my chair and one in the bed room by my bed. my child has always been taught to never touch my guns or his with out me present, he also knows my room is off limits, we also keep the door locked when we are not in there. but i do understand how you feel ben. when my son was small i kept all my guns locked up till he was old enough to teach. now he is 12 and still wont touch his guns without my permission.

Andy

[stillwell]

You tell their parents, its then on them. Kids have NO business in YOUR bedroom.

If you have them scattered about your place. Then you need to have them up out of sight. You only need one loaded firearm in your bedroom, anything else is overkill.
Ask a Cop.

one in the bed room, one in the kitchen, one in the living room, all are out of sight but the one in the bed room. not a fan of commuting to find what i need. and you know how some parents are

[Uncle R.]

I'm not foolish enough to think that any one method works for all kids, in all situations. I agree that it's better whenever possible to gun-proof the kid than try to kid-proof the gun. I'm convinced that the worst thing by far is the "forbidden fruit" factor - when a kid finds a hitherto unknown of pistol in the old man's sock drawer.
<
WHOOaa! Looka here - dad has a gun...
THAT is a disaster waiting to happen.
<
My kids would be unimpressed by such a find. "Of course dad has a gun - dad has lots of guns - what's the big deal? If he finds out you've been messing with that he's gonna blister your tail."
<
In accordance with <Ahem> "The Ayoob Doctrine" I've told them explicitly "If you want to see my guns all you have to do is ask. If you want to touch my guns or handle them all you have to do is ask. But ONLY when I am there. Mess with them when I'm not around and I'll make you sorry."
<
My kids know that I don't bluff and I don't make idle threats so it's best not to provoke the old man. SO far - it's worked well. That said, I still don't leave 'em loaded. That just seems a little over the top to me. A full magazine or speedloader nearby is good enough - for me. To each his own...
<
I realize that my response would be delayed by two seconds or so because of that policy but I have a very effective early warning system that will (hopefully) allow me the luxury of taking those few extra seconds. My early warning system has very sensitive multiple sensors, is self-propelled. patrols in a random manner and has a pretty effective built-in defense mechanism. It's capable of adjusting its response to different situations - it even recognizes our vehicles and won't sound the alarm when I come home late myself. There's no keypad or code to remember - it's completely voice activated. It weighs 95 lbs and doubles as a playmate and protector to my kids. It flushes hidden or running pheasants and retrieves ducks and I feed it Purina One and take it for walks and scratch its back now and then. It's a heck of a security system and I recommend it to everyone.
<
Uncle R.

[OutHuntn84]

Ben,
Good look'n grandson ya got there! You sure can see the wheels turning in that picture.:bigsmyl2: Reminds me when my son was born. The nurse was checking all his part to make sure they worked. She says okay everything works. I said wait a second you missed one of the most important parts, checked the trigger finger! Works just fine. Take him out hunt't tree rats from time to time and he will point them out and go BANG! I just have too much fun with my lil man and they said parenting is tough. Ha not when your just a big kid!:bigsmyl2:

[stillwell]

uncle r
your response system is well noted but i would recommend two there more fun to play with that way.cheep intertanment, great alarm, fathfull friend cant go wrong

[eljefe]

"You only need one loaded firearm in your bedroom, anything else is overkill.
Ask a Cop."

What does a "cop" have to do with anything? Most of the police I have met know
less about firearms than most of the people on this board. Many
police I have seen are not particularly good shots, either. I have also met my fair share of officers
who don't think that we, the public, should be armed.

No, I am not anti LEO...just pointing out that they are not the be all and end all of
things firearms related.

If anyone wants to decide on how many loaded guns
to have available based on Officer Friendly's advice, that is fine. Personally, I
think that the decision warrants much more thought and planning than that.

By the way, when you are in the basement or living room of your home and someone breaks in,
how useful is the loaded gun in the bedroom going to be?

[Uncle R.]

uncle r
your response system is well noted but i would recommend two there more fun to play with that way.cheep intertanment, great alarm, fathfull friend cant go wrong

Agreed! One is good but two units are much more reliable. Higher numbers increase effectiveness even more. By the time you have employed perhaps four or five units you've made it dang-near impossible for anyone to catch you by surprise - ever - no matter how soundly you sleep.
:grin:

[mastercast.com]

Folks here is how it used to work.

When I was VERY Young, I had an iterest in firearms.

My Grandfather, and my Father, both told me that any time I wanted to look at one of the guns they had, all I had to do was ask. That took all of the curiosity and mystery out of it.

I never disappointed them in that regard.

[Lead Fred]

"You only need one loaded firearm in your bedroom, anything else is overkill.
Ask a Cop."

What does a "cop" have to do with anything?

Figure of speech, I wont talk to a cop for any reason.

I meant in some states more than one loaded firearm in a home can be used against you after you take out the bad guy.

The courts will say you were looking to kill someone.

Happened to a friend, then the purps family sued him, and he lost his house and had to leave the state. Those illegals are still here BTW.

[wills]

Happened to a friend, then the purps family sued him, and he lost his house and had to leave the state. Those illegals are still here BTW.

Cant happen in Texas.

[skeet1]

Let me tell you all a story. I was in my third year as Sheriff of Chaffee County Colorado. One day I got the word of a shooting and went to the hospital to help get the information for a report. It turns out that the five year old had gotten his fathers keys to the gun cabinet and got out the loaded Ruger Single Six and was playing with his 3 year old brother. The older brother had shot the younger brother right between the eyes. I had to take photos of the body and I can still remember that beautiful cold child.

Was the father careless? Were the children some how at fault? I guess it doesn't make any difference the little guy was still dead.

All I'm trying to say is that with guns around we have to do the best job we can to make everyone safe. This is a awesome responsibility.

Skeet1

[Johnch]

Well IMO if the kid shoots someone
It had better be in self defence

As a youngster , I grew up with a cocked and locked 45 in dads night stand
A loaded 12 gau and 22 rifle in the broom closet

As a youngster I was tought to shoot them all and to not play with them
And if I had a freind over , it was my job to make sure they left the guns alone

IMO parents or grand parents should teach the kids to respect the guns and not play with them

John

[Char-Gar]

Who would of thought a simple post about keeping guns and kids apart would stir up this much passion. I guess, folks have a vested interest in the notion of "The way I did it is the correct way".

I was raise, the old way with a 22 rifle and a shotgun in the closet and ammo in the dresser drawn. In the same dresser drawer was a loaded Smith and Wesson 38-44 Heavy Duty. Yes, I did know it was there. Yes, I was trained to not pick it up without permission. Yes, I did pick it up without permission when the folks couldn't see me. No, I was never caught and no, I never shot anybody or anything.

When my kids were little I didn't have a gun safe, so the ammo was kept in a different part of the house in a locked cabinet. The only exception was my home protection pistols, that lived beside my bed. I loaded it every night before I went to be. I unloaded it every morning and the ammo went in my pocket where it remained until I loaded it again at night.

My kids were trained about guns from the time they could walk and I never had any problems and probably could have left loaded firearms laying about.

HOWEVER! There is no way you can 100% train a child to do anything. If you could, parenting would be a breeze and kids would never do anything their parents didn't want them to do. Yeah right! Children's brains are underdeveloped and their abilities to reason and control their impulses just are not 100% formed. They will do what they know they should not do and that is just a plain hard fact.

No matter how much you train, you can never be 100% certain. In fact children who have been trained, still injure themselves or others with guns. The training helps, but there is no guarantee.

Both my son and daughter were taught gun safety and how to shoot at an early age. Today thery are both gun owners and shooters. My first Grandchild was born in October last, and when my son found out his wife was expecting, he bought a gun safe.

Train, train, train, train, but also keep those children and guns apart. It just isn't worth the risk.

In Texas, if a child gets a gun and injures him/herself or another, the parents face criminal charges, and rightly so. Parent hood brings with it tremendous responsibilities of all kinds.

Now that is the way I was raised, the way I raised my kids and so on. You are free to do any thng you wish. Your are the grown up and you can call the shots and take the consequences.

[DLCTEX]

Lead Fred: as stated by wills, it couldn't happen in Texas. First we have the castle doctrine that protects us against civil suits when defending our property. Then we also have homestead protection which prevents your residence from being taken for debt. Of course it doesn't protect in a divorce, a mortgage, or from the IRS.

[StanDahl]

As to leaving loaded guns around the house, a guy in my club said: "If I come home and there's someone in there ransacking the place, if he's gonna shoot me, he'll have to bring his own gun."