I've been thinking . . . (kinda long ramble)

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

This morning while I was out for a walk in the desert/bush here in AZ, looking for a rabbit or two to shoot with my .22 . . . what should my next gun be . . . I'm fairly sure now that I want a flintlock . . . but a small caliber rifle or a fowler?

I mostly will use it for rabbits, (can't hunt birds with a rifle!) so if I had a fowler I could also get some quail . . . this morning I came across two coyotes who stopped broadside for me at about 80 yards . . .

I am rather frugal . . . and have been thinking of a 36 - 40 cal rifle . . . this morning if I had been carring my 12 gauge double there would be rabbit in my pot tonight! So I was thinking as I walked along "what about a frugal fowler, like 28 gauge?" (My friend has a 20 gauge ordered) Would a 410 be enough for rabbit? How far out could I figure reaching with a 410? 28 ga? 20 ga? The one reason I was carring my 10/22 was that I'm not crazy about the idea of digging that #6 out of a rabbit (Although I have never shot a rabbit with a shotgun) . . . what if I loaded #4 or #2, certianly easier to find . . .

I like the idea of the 36 cal as its easy to cast roundball, not much powder, lots of fun practicing . . . and since I practice using a boolit trap, I can reclaim my rb!

With a fowler, it seems I would need to buy my shot $$$! and a lot harder to recover from practice shooting, and I could shoot roundball with it . . . but with much more powder useage.

The rabbits around here usually bolt and run aways . . . the cottontails take off from 5' - 25' away, and run 25 - 50 yards, and then freeze . . . the jack rabbits ussually take off from about 30+ yards, and will stop around 50 - 80 yards out, then look around and amble on, if your not chasing them . . . I seem to see more jacks . . . this morning I had a jack take off about 20 yards off, running like a dog, not hopping/jumping like a jack, I flushed it out from under a mesquite bush, and it ran with it's ears laid back to about 40 yards, then it switched to those big jumps/hops, kept going out to about 90 - 100 yards . . .

What about a double 28 gauge / 36 cal, is there such a beast? would it do what I want?

[dromia]

I'd get a .36" calibre rifle, you can always load it with shot.

[pietro]

FWIW, The T/C .56 Smoothbore Renegade is virtually a 28ga (some use 28gs shotcups in theirs) fowler that also can shoot some pretty decent PRB groups, since it's issued with Thompson's iron sights .

If you also feel the absolute need for a .32 or .36 , a GM accessory barrel in one of those calibers can be had.

.

[1Shirt]

Back when I was shooting a lot of front stuffers, I shot from 69 cal top down to 32 on the low end and 20 and 12 g smoothbores and a few trade guns, and a fair amount of muskets. If I was going to settle for a rifle instead of a shotgun, it would be a 40 cal first pref, and 45 second choice. 40's have appreciable more going for them than does 32 or 36, with not much more powder, and lead. If I were going for shotgun, it would be a side by side 12 like the CVA I just sold. Took turkey with that gun at 35 yards (took both bbls however), and with patched round ball it would stay in the black at 25yd and on paper with about half in the black at 50. In preference, however, I would have one of each.
Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[oldhickory]

Let's face it, you been bit and need both!:grin:

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Let's face it, you been bit and need both!:grin:

Yes probably, but . . . not that flush on cash . . .

Right now with the 22, I have to wait for them to stop thier little zig zag, and then find them, and they are a ways off. (I'm also using a 3X12 scope!) shooting them at 50-80 yards, will a 36 or 40 do the job out that far? I've read that the smaller calibers don't like wind, blows atleast half the time here . . .

If I got a fowler, I would not have to wait for them to stop . . . but how far will I be able to shoot? most of the jack rabbits are spooked from a distance.

What if I loaded up #4 Buck in a 28 guage . . . will that reach out farther than say #4 shot?

Maybe I'll have to load up some 12 gauge and see what it does, but it is Imp/Mod choked, but I only have #6 & #9 shot . . .

[Mk42gunner]

The most practical "If I'm going to eat today, I need to shoot something" gun is a shotgun.

A 20 ga trade gun would be very practical. With shot it should provide decent patterns to around thirty yards, and with a patched round ball it would easily double that range for big game.

Of course for your 80 yard rabbits you will need a rifle.


Robert

[rhbrink]

Buy or make a underhammer and switch barrels, 32 -36 small game, 40 general shooting target, 50 to 58 for the big stuff, and off course a smoothie for whatever.

[Richard B]

A trade gun or fowler with cylider choke is going to be limited to 25-30 yards with shot and perhaps twice that range with a round ball on deer sized game. You can have them jug choked but that adds to the expense. I would lean towards a 20g rather than a 28g because the larger bore will give you a better shot collum with large shot. I have used both and prefer the 20g. See if Jackie Brown is still making guns as he used to make a well priced simple fowler and trade gun.

Any round ball is going to punch a big hole in a rabbit and most black powder hunters limit themselves to head shots so that they have something left to eat. I hunt jack rabbits with a .50 cal T/C Hawken flinter but limit my shots to uppper body/head when they stop. When you hit them with a .50 cal rb they do stop.

For snowshoes I use a T/C New Englander 12g as the range is much shorter, sometimes feet rather than yards.

One option for you if you can find one is a Thompson Center New Englander combo with a rifle barrel (.50 or .54) and a 12g barrel.

Just my thoughts

rb

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I have a .36 & .50 switch barrel Flinter. Both are 38" long and when I return next time up I am seriosly considering reaming the .50 rifled to .58 smothbore. I have a .58 Flint musket smoothy that shoots as good as patterns as my .62. The 58 RB is a hard hitter and I see no lack of power in it. If I want to shoot a .54 RB I just need a thicker patch. I have shot down to .51 RB in the .58 but that needs a thick leather patch which would last a long time if I ever shot it all day. But I like a .54 ball. But the 58 smoothy with 1 1/4 #5 shot & 85 grains 2F will puff a crow at 40 yards if I can keep the pattern centered on those pesky noise makers.
The problem of trying to have just 1 gun is that it will have to be a comprimize in all hunting aspects. But with that .36 barrel I then can shoot lots cheap, pop little critters accurately out to 70 yards and when I want I can go bigger bore for whatever.
BUT I have few plans on selling anything else so it really is a mute point. You just never know when a rampaging elephant comes about in need of a .80 RB...

[Dean D.]

Or.....you could go this route: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6293.0 :holysheep :kidding:

Sorry, I couldn't resist

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Dean, the only way I could be able to catoragize a two bore as FRUGAL would be if I had 20 rabbits all running in ranks of 4 or 5 abreast . . . and then I'd be over limit . . . unless they were jack rabbits . . . we can only bag 10 cottontails per day out here. 24 pounds is kinda heavy too!

I'm gonna take my 12 out this afternoon with some shells I found I had left over from turkey time in VT . . . some BB & Duplex 2X6 1.5oz each . . . If I use a shotgun I want to pick out as few pieces of shot as possible . . .

So will a 12 bore black powder have the same effective range as mine with smokeless shells? (providing the same choke) Not that I'm considering a 12 Flinty . . . well yet, anyways!

[Marvin S]

You might check out Caywood, they make flint guns with switch barrel options. Just search the web for them. Have a rear sight put on the 20 ga smooth barrel and then get a 40cal for the other. I made a mold to cast about a .190 dia shot for my 20ga Fusil, its easier to find the pellets.

[Hanshi]

What you need is a .40 flint rifle; nothing more, nothing less. A .36 will sub okay, though. forget about anything else.

[Cactus Farmer]

I have a 40 flint and a 28 ga South American/African trade musket with no sights. The 28 will shoot a lot farther than you would think if you use plastic shot cups. Mine won't work with Remington wads but is the berrys with AA Winchester wads. I've never played with big shot,7 1/2s work well and no shot in the bunnies to speak of. Now here is the cool part,a .490 ball will fit quite nicely in my gun with 60grns of 2f and it is amazingly accurate. More than good enough,ie, minute of deer or coyote. No rear sight is necessary with a little practice. My little toy weighs a whole 3 3/4 lbs empty. Yep, it does kick a might but I'm hunting and it's not bad enough to make me think about it. Have you ever felt recoil if you were shooting at game........didn't think so.:bigsmyl2:

[Marvin S]

The rear sight sure makes an accuracy difference when shooting PRB in the 62cal smooth barrel.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Howdy Cactus!

How far are you reaching out with that 28 bore?

Do those plasic wads mess up the barrel?

Is your 28 choked? how much?

On a different note:
I took my 12 out today and shot some 2 3/4" magnum 1.5oz of BB at 40 yards the improved Cyl was a bit open, but the Modified did pretty good on the cardboard . . .

[Cactus Farmer]

123 B,

I'm guessing at least 30 yards with birds. The plastic isn't a big deal,your hunting and will only shoot a few times before cleaning, I use a 20 ga Tornado brush after the normal hot water wash. Clean as a pin. Get a gasket punch or make a punch and cut over shot wads out of thin cardboard. With a double they need to handle the recoil of the first barrel,but with a single barrel that is a moot point.
I love hunting dove with it in the early season. Adds a little sport to a meat hunt.
And I do get some meat. Shot 12 times and brought ten home. One clean miss and shot one twice as I was tired of chasing the thing.

[Odinbreaker]

I have a 36 and two 54 smooth bore's GM barrels one is flint the other percussion. The 36 is a CVA bobcat. with 25 gr of powder a 60 gr 32 cast bullet and a sabot. PRB are the best group in this gun. Yes you can get sabot to reduce 36 to 32. I shoot 1 inch groups at 25 yds I can do much better at 50ft which is squirrel range. The 54 loaded with 60gr of 2 f and two felt wads and an over card wad with 7/8 oz of # 5 shot is good squirrel and rabbit medicine out to 50 ft.

[StrawHat]

I own and enjoy more than a few flintlock rifles. My favorites being a 58 (1803 Italian Harper's Ferry) and a 32 I made in the late 60s. These are the two I shoot the most. The 32 is what I use for rabbit and squirrel, groundhogs and other vermin also. The 58 is for bigger game, which in Ohio means deer. I have other calibers but those are the two I seem to grab for most of my shooting. I am considering another 58 flinter, but so far have not shaped any wood for it.

I have used the 58 on small game but it is not as frugal as the 32.

[northmn]

Flintlocks ares fun. When you mention using a scope you are automatically limiting yourself for range by using an ironsighted rifle of any caliber. Swivel breeches have been made that have one smooth bore and one rifle, but if you want to be frugal the cost of one is out. I knew a gunsmith that would install a 50 cal barrel in a Navy Arms shotgun so that they would have one rifle and one 12 bore barrel. About the most economical Trade Gun would be to get a Nortwest Gun. I really doubt in a flintlock muzzle Loader that you would notice any large performance difference between a 24 or a 20. In smoothbores I prefer a larger bore like the 12 as they handle a little heavier shot charge. For a rifle I would get a 40 as they handle themselves better at longer distances. The difference between ball, if purchased for a 40 and the smaller bores is about $1.00 per hundred.

Northmn