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Recluse
02-11-2010, 12:55 PM
Now, I know what kind of (potential) abuse I'm opening myself up for by posting this seeing what happened the last time a reloader had FTF problems with CCI primers. So I'll preface this by saying I've been pulling handles on reloading presses for right at forty years, with thirty of those years by myself (first ten were with my dad). I've loaded and shot several hundred thousand rounds in my life up to this point.

I know how to seat a primer. I know how not to contaminate a primer.

With that said, I popped open a 100ct box of Wolf primers, small pistol, and loaded up some .38 Special 105SWC 2.8gr Bullseye loads for my daughter. Loaded up 100 rounds.

Gun is a S&W Model 19, 2/ 12" barrel, Hogue grips, no trigger job or action work. Stock gun. This is a gun I used as a backup gun during my LE days. It is fired regularly.

Out of the 100 rounds I loaded, almost half failed to fire on first double-action trigger pull. I checked to see if she was maybe short-cycling the trigger, but they failed to fire with me as well.

Out of that forty-plus, I got about half of those to fire after repeated single action attempts.

Now, odd thing is that this particular 100ct box came from a standard 1000ct brick. I've already loaded--and shot--about half of that brick up to this point. Zero problems. Some of the rounds loaded were fired in the same Model 19 my kid was firing. Some were fired in any number of the 9mm guns, the .380 and my 686.

It was only this box that gave me trouble.

I ran some identical reloads (.38Spcl, 105SWC, 2.8gr Bullseye) but that were primed with Winchester small pistol primers, and had zero FTF. Ran some 148WC rounds through loaded with CCI primers, zero FTF. Went back to the Wolf-primed loads and kept getting FTF.

? ? ?

Went back to the reloading bench when we got home to see if anything might have contaminated the primer tray or press or (primer) seating area. Nothing, nada, zippo.

Loaded up another 100ct box, same load, went back out next day and only had two FTF.

Indentations were as strong and deep as you can get. Primers were seated as flush as you can get. No contamination.

I'm scratching my head.

:coffee:

felix
02-11-2010, 01:07 PM
They used multiple assembly lines in making those primers, no doubt. The same happened with a 5K round lot of Hansen (Hungarian) 22LR ammo. No failure to fire, but the ammo shot into TWO distinct groups with a 22LR BR gun. Each group was statistically the same, however, but one lot was detected inferior by eyeball. Unfortunately, the folks doing the boxing had intermixed the produce into ONE (as marked) lot, making it impossible to separate the lot into TWO distinct lots. The ammo was sold to a back yard shooter who couldn't detect any difference whatsoever. ... felix

Recluse
02-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Thanks for that info, Felix. It makes perfect sense.

My very first initial thought was that due to the incredible demand for primers, and Wolf's efforts to get on the market, there could've been some QC issues. I know we certainly saw that with Lee.

So far, I've been okay with the Wolf primers, and this episode doesn't change that. I had a bad box of CCI primers many years ago. Called them up, sent them the bad brick and they sent me a case (five bricks) in return.

Doubt Wolf will do that and I'm not asking for it, but just curious as to some thoughts and opinion on what could have happened.

One bad box out of the brick is kind of unusual.

:coffee:

mike in co
02-11-2010, 02:28 PM
my comment would have been, try some in the 9mm.....but seems too late for that

i assume they are all gone at this point....

as in try some of that box of 100 in the 9....yes it can be done...just push the primer out and load the 9's with them.

i have been luckie, shot lots of the sr/223, and some lr no FTF.

mike in co

fredj338
02-11-2010, 02:58 PM
I can only offer that Wolf priemrs seem slightly oversize & requir a bit more force to seat them completely. The fact they are firing on the 2nd go, tells me they were not completely seated. JMOE, but have seen ti using Wolf primers, LP or SP. You just have to make sure they are seated firmly. I have not had any issues w/ WOlf LP ieven in a tuned M625 or striker fired XD.

Recluse
02-11-2010, 03:04 PM
I can only offer that Wolf priemrs seem slightly oversize & requir a bit more force to seat them completely. The fact they are firing on the 2nd go, tells me they were not completely seated. JMOE, but have seen ti using Wolf primers, LP or SP. You just have to make sure they are seated firmly. I have not had any issues w/ WOlf LP ieven in a tuned M625 or striker fired XD.

I have noticed that they take a bit more force to seat--not as much as CCI or the Remington Bench Rest primers, but still a bit more.

Secondly, I load these particular rounds (105SWC 2.8 Bullseye) exclusively in nickel cases, which also seems to take a bit more force. This was my first foray with Wolf primers in nickel cases for anything.

I'm going to take a box of 100, load some in 9mm and .380, and the rest in the nickel cases--but for the nickel cases, I'm going to use my little Lee hand primer to seat them to ensure proper depth/seating.

Will see what happens.

:coffee:

Wayne S
02-11-2010, 03:14 PM
Interesting, I too have just primed some 38 Spl. Nickle cases with the Wolf SPP, They were a lot harder to seat than Fed.SPP, and I notice the cup is bronze colored instead of the standard nickel color.I'll limit their use to loading 38 Spl. so I don't get them confused with Rem. BRSRP

azrednek
02-11-2010, 03:18 PM
I recently shot up a thousand Wolf brand large pistol primers in 44 Mag, 45ACP and Colt. not a single hick-up. During the same time frame I shot up a thousand Remington small pistol and had three duds. The duds were all in my Taurus 9MM, my Ruger and S&W 38 and 357's no problem. One of the duds fired on the second strike so it is a good possibility it was my fault. The nines were my first run through my new Hornady Lock N load so I'm more inclined to believe it was operator error.

truckmsl
02-11-2010, 03:27 PM
Wolf changed their small pistol primers when they went from the brass color to the nickel color. Before the nickel, they were flawless in my striker fired pistol, after the change, terrible reliability. It does not have anything to do with seating. Yes, some will fire after two or three hits, but others never will. Wolf has acknowledged a problem with these nickel colored primers, and will refund unused primers if you contact them. They seem to be more reliable in hammer type pistols. It's obviously a quality issue related to a wide range of sensitivity with these primers.

Marlin Hunter
02-11-2010, 03:42 PM
Most, if not all of my FTF rounds fall into 2 catagories.

1) Dirty gun or firing pin. Some dirt, lint, or carbon prevents the firing from completely denting the primer. This has been more common on .22 LR's when I go camping and shoot several 100 rounds without cleaning the gun. I have never had a FTF on any other gun (pistol or revolver). My friend had FTFs from lint in his revolver.

2) Primer not seated completely on reloads, and the initial hit from the firing pin finishes seating the primer. I noticed this one time when I had a FTF and looked at the primer. It was still above the base of the cartridge. After firing a second time, the primer was below the base. The high primer can be cause by a dirty primer pocket, or dirt or something else preventing the reloading press from fully seating the primer.

Marlin Hunter
02-11-2010, 03:49 PM
Wolf changed their small pistol primers when they went from the brass color to the nickel color. Before the nickel, they were flawless in my striker fired pistol, after the change, terrible reliability.


A lot of the lower cost primer are now made from steel instead of brass. If you put a magnet on the primer, you can see which ones are steel and which ones are not. The color of the primer has nothing to do with their material. Some American made brass primers are nickel plated and some brass colored primers (foreign) are steel. I think they call it brass washed steel. As an example, if you put a magnet on the base of cheaper shotgun shells that look brass, you will notice that they are magnetic. I think Winchesters and low cost Remingtons (not STS or Nitro) are brass colored steel. Most Euro shells are brass colored steel.

jdgabbard
02-11-2010, 06:24 PM
I've personally had great experienses with Wolf primers. I used to have CCI as the staple primer in my press's diet. After I had 1k that decided they didn't want to go off I went to Wolf. It's possible that it was a bad batch, but if the rest rife, stick with them. Honestly, I use wolf when I can. For me everthing else is substitute standard.

Boz330
02-11-2010, 06:28 PM
Just a stab in the dark here but I thought that I read somewhere that the Wolf anvil will come out pretty easy. If you ran these through a progressive press maybe some of the anvils were separated from the primer. If you haven't deprimed some of the cases yet it might be something to look for. If some of them went off on a second try I'm at a loss other than the obvious suspects.

Bob

lwknight
02-11-2010, 07:27 PM
You never know what you will get. I have some older CCI primers that never FTF and some newer ones that never fire unless I put them in my SA Ruger SBH.

mike in co
02-11-2010, 08:13 PM
A lot of the lower cost primer are now made from steel instead of brass. If you put a magnet on the primer, you can see which ones are steel and which ones are not. The color of the primer has nothing to do with their material. Some American made brass primers are nickel plated and some brass colored primers (foreign) are steel. I think they call it brass washed steel. As an example, if you put a magnet on the base of cheaper shotgun shells that look brass, you will notice that they are magnetic. I think Winchesters and low cost Remingtons (not STS or Nitro) are brass colored steel. Most Euro shells are brass colored steel.

i disagree with the term "alot"....some are steel, and if you recheck your shot gun shells you will likely see that it is not the primer, but the adapter around the actual primer that is steel.

and no wolf is not steel in thier commercial primers.

mike in co

c3d4b2
02-11-2010, 08:53 PM
I could not find the link......

When Bob Jones first started selling Russian primers there were several instances of them not going off the first firing pin strike, but they would go off the second. What was happening is the primers were not seated deep enough. The first firing pin strike would seat the primers deaper and the second would ignite the primer.

If I am remembering correctly (hopefully). The Russian primers were not as deep as the US primers and when they looked normal they were not seated correctly. It might be worth your while to measure the depth of the primer pocket and te depth of the primmer.

Willbird
02-12-2010, 01:05 AM
I have NEVER had a FTF with a primer I seated into a case. I have never fired any Wolf primers.

I do know a guy in Florida however that shoots and reloads a LOT, and he bought a slew of WOLF primers of all sizes. He found the LP magnum primers would not light H110/WW296. I have mentioned that to a few people but they seem to not want to hear it......it really scared me away from buying any so far.

Bill

home in oz
02-12-2010, 01:24 AM
Are the Wolf primers "harder?"

helg
02-12-2010, 02:11 AM
I have shot a sleeve (5K) of Wolf SP primers, and now on the second sleeve. The primers need about the same force to be seated as CCI 550 which is higher than the force needed for Rem 1 1/2 primers. Cup diameter for Wolf SP is claimed to be 4.43mm (.1744")

http://www.flame.murom.ru/en/Htmls/primers.htm

Miking has shown that the cup diameter is a few microns (about one ten-thousandth) larger than the declared size. It is still 4.43X, not 4.44mm.

All went bang. Most in my 9mms, and some in 7.62x38 Nagant. I would say that the cup is definitely harder than in Federals, and is slightly harder than in Rems. Once you strike them with sufficient force, should be no problem to ignite, and it should withstand +P loads much better than Feds and Rems.

Lloyd Smale
02-12-2010, 07:57 AM
i posted this a whle back when i first used wolf primers and got hung out to dry by guys that didnt believe me. I bought lg and small pistol and lg pistol mags. The small pistol seemed to work fine the lg pistol mags worked fine but were no hotter then a standard federal primer. The large pistol i got were junk. I had hang fires missfires and the worse deviation readings ive ever seen accross a chorno. I even found a couple primers out of that case that were missing anvils. They were also all very mild and only suitable for fast burning flake powders like bullseye. Was it a quality control problem. Id guess so as others didnt share my problems. Either that or didnt really test them throughly. It convinced me that the only way id buy them again is if they were the only primer i could find. Even one misfire out of 5000 isnt exceptable as that one could be the one your counting on your gun to protect your family.

prs
02-12-2010, 10:03 AM
Well; surprise, surprise. Lower priced goods from the third world are often of lesser quality than are those produced by reputable companies in the developed countries.

prs

helg
02-12-2010, 02:17 PM
Well; surprise, surprise. Lower priced goods from the third world are often of lesser quality than are those produced by reputable companies in the developed countries.

prs
Russia by definition of the term is not a country of the "Third world"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World

However, I am not surprised by the mistake. Here everything outside the country border is named "third word".

Wolf rifle primers show way less ES than local brands - there are zillion of claims on this on the Internet, including David Tubb's one.

softpoint
02-12-2010, 02:35 PM
I recently aquired 8k of the Wolf primers. Lg. pistol and Lg. rifle. I have used about 400 of the Lg. rifle in recent load development. Many in 45/70 . In the 45/70, Many of the loads were with loads of 5744 which didn't fill the case even halfway. I got superb accuracy out of those loads,even without fillers. I intend to use their harder seating characteristic to advantage, as I am going to use them in a bunch of Federal gold medal brass in .308 that has slightly loose primer pockets.
I don't doubt there are some bad ones out there, but I wonder how they were handled during shipment, stored, etc. The Wolf brand is certainly OK, go over to the rimfire forums and see what the say about thier .22 ammo.:drinks:

mpmarty
02-12-2010, 05:24 PM
Back when B.O. got nominated by popular acclaim I bought 30,000 large pistol primers from Grafs and son along with enough powder to get their discount. i'VE used those LP primers in 45/70 and 7.62X51 for cast boolit loads and they work fine every time. I'd buy more of them in a heartbeat if I could get the same price which was $85 a sleeve of five thousand primers.

emorris
02-15-2010, 10:39 PM
My experence with wolf ended with their loaded ammo. I bought a p3-at in .380 and was only able to find wolf steel case berdan primed (reloaders nightmare) ammo. I did not have the dies to reload .380 so I was dependent on factory ammo. These were cheap and i purchased several boxes. When i got home for what i expected to be a joyful expierence shooting a new gun, I was in for a real suprise. almost every round i tried would not fire on the first strick and most would not fire on the second third fourth....... attempt. I had the gun checked out and it was ok. I was finally able tofind some different ammo (tn cartridge reloads) and they shot fine. the primer strick on the wolf ammo seemed good. A long story made short goodby p3-at and hello s&w 642 airweight 38 special (even got lucky and got one WITHOUT the lock.

blackpowder man
02-16-2010, 12:46 AM
I had a bad box of 100 wolf large rifle primers. During the obama ammo/component shortage I have had a long year of making what I can find work. While many people stockpiled I was not financially in a position to do so until too late. The 2k primers I ordered last June and have been on backorder at cabelas are supposed to be here tomorrow. So when wolf primers showed up at a local store that has continually increased their prices during the shortage to a high of $59.99 per brick the wolf primers for 4.59 a sleeve or 39.99 a brick seemed like a deal. I bought 200 and shot them no problem. Bought another 200 and before I shot them another 500. These were from 2 different bricks. Then I went to shoot and had a lot of ftf probably the same or a little less percentage wise. These were mostly in .30-30, but some .25-06 improved. My marlin left a pretty good dent in the primer and I tried them all twice and then again in a winchester 94. I called the store from the range and they gave the usual do you have a hammer extension and how old is the gun stuff, but they exchanged them for powder when I showed them the size of the dents in the primers and they probably resold the primers to the next guy. I shoot alot and have had 1 cci ftf. I have shot a reasonable amount of wolf military loaded ammo some years ago and don't remember too many if any ftfs. The wolf primers that went off shot fine and consistently in at least 4 different rifles it just happened to be the .30-30s that got most of the bad ones, but the .25-06 improved was a remington 700 and it did the same as the lever guns.

mike in co
02-16-2010, 01:45 AM
My experence with wolf ended with their loaded ammo. I bought a p3-at in .380 and was only able to find wolf steel case berdan primed (reloaders nightmare) ammo. I did not have the dies to reload .380 so I was dependent on factory ammo. These were cheap and i purchased several boxes. When i got home for what i expected to be a joyful expierence shooting a new gun, I was in for a real suprise. almost every round i tried would not fire on the first strick and most would not fire on the second third fourth....... attempt. I had the gun checked out and it was ok. I was finally able tofind some different ammo (tn cartridge reloads) and they shot fine. the primer strick on the wolf ammo seemed good. A long story made short goodby p3-at and hello s&w 642 airweight 38 special (even got lucky and got one WITHOUT the lock.

wolf is a marketing company.
they sell whats available....in this case the primers and the ammo are not related.....

sorta like not ever buying a forgien car cause your yugo sucked....



mike in co

Nate1778
02-16-2010, 10:17 AM
I have had a handful of FTF using the same primers. Some of it may be my fault, some of it may be the primers, some may be the gun. Either way they are plinking and target rounds, and a FTF is not that big a deal. I would however never use these in any SD round.

gasboffer
02-16-2010, 10:25 AM
I feel like that as an experienced leader and shooter, (translated+ole fart) that you have checked the mainspring strain screw on the Smith. When I was firearms training officer for my PD, back in the 70s and 80s, all we carried were revolvers. When the troops came to the range, I would always have my trusty little screwdriver to tighten the strain screw on the Smiths. The guys would loosen them up to get a smooth and light trigger pull.
Clyde

Recluse
02-16-2010, 11:36 AM
I have had a handful of FTF using the same primers. Some of it may be my fault, some of it may be the primers, some may be the gun. Either way they are plinking and target rounds, and a FTF is not that big a deal. I would however never use these in any SD round.

Yep, that's my philosophy.

I already have a good variety of self-defense/hunting ammunition that I have 99% confidence in. The Wolf stuff facilitates my plinking and fun shooting.


I feel like that as an experienced leader and shooter, (translated+ole fart) that you have checked the mainspring strain screw on the Smith. When I was firearms training officer for my PD, back in the 70s and 80s, all we carried were revolvers. When the troops came to the range, I would always have my trusty little screwdriver to tighten the strain screw on the Smiths. The guys would loosen them up to get a smooth and light trigger pull.
Clyde

Funny you should mention this.

I took the Hogue grips off this Model 19, and sure enough, the screw had come out a bit. Tightened it back up, but haven't had the chance to go shooting again. Will probably do so this weekend.

But, judging from the size of the pin-strike craters in some of the FTF rounds, that wasn't the problem. Put the calipers and the micrometer to some of the FTF rounds, and primer seating wasn't the problem.

Not that big of a deal. I've been reloading and shooting for enough years to know that if you do this long enough, you're eventually going to run into a bad batch of primers or powder or incorrectly sized/plated bullets, etc.

It's simply the law of averages.

:coffee:

softpoint
02-16-2010, 02:16 PM
And, the fact is with primers(and everything else), 20 years ago, if a bad, or mishandled brick of primers showed up somewhere, only the customer and his gunshop owner knew about it. Now, with the internet, 30 minutes after a misfire, thousands know about it....:!:

doubs43
02-16-2010, 02:48 PM
I've been using Wolf LP primers in my 45ACP & 44 Mag reloads. Loading the 44 Mags on a Hornady L-n-L press, I had an occasional FTF with 100% firing on the second strike. I took a careful look at the primer seating as the cartridges came off the press. While they appeared to be seated deeply enough, running them through a Lee hand priming tool showed that they lacked the final few thousands from being fully seated. Now I run all of them through the Lee tool and have not had a single misfire since.

ALL manufacturers can - and will - put out a faulty product on occasion. Any who haven't are simply too new but, sooner or later, it'll happen.

emorris
02-16-2010, 08:23 PM
Thanks Mike for the info. I always thought that they were the same. Due to me thinking that they were the same I have passed up on some at reasonable prices (in todays market). Powder valley shows that they have them in stock. Midway had some cci sp in stock today, but only lasted a short time.

shooterg
02-16-2010, 08:31 PM
No FTF in over 5K Wolf small pistol, and a few less in small rifle magnum, only tried a couple hundred of LP, no FTF. Have mucho Federal LR, so haven't even bought any Wolf in that size.
Like others, I do believe they're a little "fat" which is OK in some of my many times fired brass. All in all, satisfactory for me, but I'd still like to be able to buy Federal again !

bearcove
02-16-2010, 08:41 PM
I seat my primers till they bottom in the pocket. I don't care if they are flush. Just not above flush. Then when the pin strikes it has impact on the anvil. Some primers have seated deeper than others. Primer pocket depth is another variable.

shepheard
02-17-2010, 08:20 PM
I emailed Wolf about all this and they said the SP and LP have harder cups now. I just got 5000 LP to load up in a 1911, hopefully they work as well as others I used to be able to find. If not Wolf has a great waranty, send back the EMPTY box with the reciept and they will send you a check in the mail. ( so I've heard )

HangFireW8
02-17-2010, 09:02 PM
I always scrounge brass at the range when I shoot.

When I see empty boxes of Wolf ammo, usually .223, I invariably find some unfired ammo with firing pin strikes amongst the empty brass.

Because of this, I've never bought their ammo nor their primers. Perhaps some batches are great, some of their factories are fabulous, etc. That's OK, for other folks.

I've had PMC and Remington .22LR ammo both fail to fire, have huge extreme spreads over the crono, and even leave bullets in the bore. I do not buy either brand of .22 ammo any more. (I do buy Remington primers, which have never failed me).

If these companies want to piss on their own brand name, let them, but I'm not going to encourage them by buying their products. I can afford for novelties and entertainment electronics to fail. I might need a firearm to work someday, even a rimfire or a handload, and it better darn work when I need it.

That's why I don't buy Wolf primers. I like to reward companies that get it right, consistantly. I also had enough primers on hand when Obama got elected. Not hoarding, just made sure I had enough, didn't run out and buy more because I already had enough. Been through it when the last Democratic party President was elected, not surprised by the idiocy of the American consumer. At least it was good for the industry. Now that the Supreme Court has lifted the ban on Corporate giving, I hope the ammo manufacturers have saved up a political war chest with all the panic buying. They will probably need it.

-HF

mike in co
02-17-2010, 09:52 PM
I always scrounge brass at the range when I shoot.

When I see empty boxes of Wolf ammo, usually .223, I invariably find some unfired ammo with firing pin strikes amongst the empty brass.

Because of this, I've never bought their ammo nor their primers. Perhaps some batches are great, some of their factories are fabulous, etc. That's OK, for other folks.

I've had PMC and Remington .22LR ammo both fail to fire, have huge extreme spreads over the crono, and even leave bullets in the bore. I do not buy either brand of .22 ammo any more. (I do buy Remington primers, which have never failed me).

If these companies want to piss on their own brand name, let them, but I'm not going to encourage them by buying their products. I can afford for novelties and entertainment electronics to fail. I might need a firearm to work someday, even a rimfire or a handload, and it better darn work when I need it.

That's why I don't buy Wolf primers. I like to reward companies that get it right, consistantly. I also had enough primers on hand when Obama got elected. Not hoarding, just made sure I had enough, didn't run out and buy more because I already had enough. Been through it when the last Democratic party President was elected, not surprised by the idiocy of the American consumer. At least it was good for the industry. Now that the Supreme Court has lifted the ban on Corporate giving, I hope the ammo manufacturers have saved up a political war chest with all the panic buying. They will probably need it.

-HF

what makes you think wolf primers are any worse than any other primer?
it has been clearly stated thet wolf ammo( mil spec stuff) and thier primers have nothing in common. they also market a premium line of ammo.
it has been clearly stated that wolf and pmc/wolf primers are highly desired by benchrest shooters.

maybe you would like to provide documentation of zero failure to fire data for your primer of choice ?
another comment that makes no sense.........

" i'll never buy a ford product because the edsel sucked" has as much common sense.


"i saw an x auto in an accident, the driver died, so i'll never buy an x auto"........same reasoning....of course the the driver was drunk and on the wrong side of the road..but why let facts get in the way of a closed mind.

wallenba
02-17-2010, 10:03 PM
I have zero experience with Wolf products. Here in Michigan I have not seen them retail and at least one gun range I frequent has it posted "NO WOLF AMMUNITION". Never got curious about the reasoning until now. I will inquire about it next visit.

HangFireW8
02-17-2010, 10:27 PM
Mike,

It has also been clearly stated that there are failures with Wolf primers. And disputed. A lot of things get clearly stated. Big deal.

Competitors will try anything looking for an edge but they will go back to what works. The Federal BR primer still reigns supreme on the benchrest line. Somebody will try any new thing that comes along. Big deal.

Anyway, I clearly explained my reasoning, which you clearly ignored. You can set up some straw man examples, go to town, I won't stop you. If you lose sleep about Wolf's good name being dragged in the mud, well, I won't.

Like I said, some factories, some batches, some good stuff, some bad stuff, I'm not hard up enough to have to sort that out when I still have, and can get, the good stuff. If going cheap on primers works out great for you, fabulous. For me, they have pissed all over their good name, more power to them for that. In this market, they can get away with that, and just being here will help keep the price of the US primers down. I hope. All hail the open market!

With casting, I control the quality of the bullet, with reloading, the brass dimensions and the powder fill. I like having choices in the primer market, since I have no plans to make my own, but that doesn't mean I have to buy them all. Maybe I'm missing out on Wolf primers, but since I have plenty of everything I need in stock, who cares? The existence of this thread doesn't want to make me want to run out and try them now, I'll tell you that for sure.

-HF

mike in co
02-18-2010, 12:16 AM
I have zero experience with Wolf products. Here in Michigan I have not seen them retail and at least one gun range I frequent has it posted "NO WOLF AMMUNITION". Never got curious about the reasoning until now. I will inquire about it next visit.

THE MOST PROBABLE REASON IS STEEL JACKETED BULLETS...they often have a copper wash or plate..but most indoor ranges will not allow wolf mil spec ammo.

mike in co
02-18-2010, 12:30 AM
Mike,

It has also been clearly stated that there are failures with Wolf primers. And disputed. A lot of things get clearly stated. Big deal.

Competitors will try anything looking for an edge but they will go back to what works. The Federal BR primer still reigns supreme on the benchrest line. Somebody will try any new thing that comes along. Big deal.

Anyway, I clearly explained my reasoning, which you clearly ignored. You can set up some straw man examples, go to town, I won't stop you. If you lose sleep about Wolf's good name being dragged in the mud, well, I won't.

Like I said, some factories, some batches, some good stuff, some bad stuff, I'm not hard up enough to have to sort that out when I still have, and can get, the good stuff. If going cheap on primers works out great for you, fabulous. For me, they have pissed all over their good name, more power to them for that. In this market, they can get away with that, and just being here will help keep the price of the US primers down. I hope. All hail the open market!

With casting, I control the quality of the bullet, with reloading, the brass dimensions and the powder fill. I like having choices in the primer market, since I have no plans to make my own, but that doesn't mean I have to buy them all. Maybe I'm missing out on Wolf primers, but since I have plenty of everything I need in stock, who cares? The existence of this thread doesn't want to make me want to run out and try them now, I'll tell you that for sure.

-HF


hang fire the point you are missing is the "wolf" brand is a marketing name only.

wolf 22 rf ammo has no connection to wolf mil ammo which has no relationship
to wolf primers which has no relationship to the gold line of wolf premium ammo.

its a marketing name only. the companies making the products are complety independent of each other.

sorta like sears marketing tires under thier name, but made by michelin, firestone and goodyear.

inspite of your claim about unobtainable fed primers in br, a common primer is the wolf srm for short range and lr/lrm in 600 and out.

match published results often have little to do with what is actually used on match day. that data is collected why ahead the match...things change.

we dont have a final test on this listed ftf...there is stil a retest pending.

we do know that in pistol some people have not been seating the primers to bottom of the pocket.

and they aint cheap...they cost me more than any other sr/lr/sp/lp primer...


ya have a good day...

mike in co

uscra112
02-18-2010, 08:21 PM
And like Sears, et.al., Wolf may well have what the Sears folks call "promotional grade" merchandise. i.e. junk that they can sell at a reduced price, stating "compare to" and citing a much better quality item. And like many Far East "trading companies" they will rush to market with a junk item that can imitate a good one whenever there is a sudden high demand for the good one. Saw this time and again during the late 1960's "minibike" craze.

mike in co
02-18-2010, 09:19 PM
And like Sears, et.al., Wolf may well have what the Sears folks call "promotional grade" merchandise. i.e. junk that they can sell at a reduced price, stating "compare to" and citing a much better quality item. And like many Far East "trading companies" they will rush to market with a junk item that can imitate a good one whenever there is a sudden high demand for the good one. Saw this time and again during the late 1960's "minibike" craze.



but not true of the wolf primers......

these have been on the market since '04/05 as pmc and now as wolf........

not true of the match/target wolf 22 ammo out of GERMANY.

just how much wolf primers have you shot ?

how about some personal facts on the subject ??

mike in co

HangFireW8
02-18-2010, 09:22 PM
I got the point, as you can see... by reading carefully, you'll see I said I don't want to bother sorting out the good from the bad, and if that is the value of their brand to them, that is the value of their brand to me.

-HF