how important is a "match grade barrel in a 45?"

[223tenx]

Twenty five years or so ago I shot the lug off of a Colt 45 barrel and sent it back to Colt Firearms with a note telling what happened w/ load data and etc. Didn't hear from them for a month or two and went ahead and bought a rotoforged barrel from Sarco for about $70. Fitted it myself and it shot as well or better than the original Colt barrel. Three months later I got a new barrel from Colt in the mail and it didn't shoot any better. So, now I have a friend wanting to build up a 45 for carry and he's wanting to buy a "Match Grade" barrel from Brownell's and lay down mucho bucks for it. I'm wondering how important is it to have a match grade barrel, OR is it more important to fit it properly? Accuracy for a carry piece is only needed for 10 yds at most. It seems to be a waste of money. Anybody have any opinions?

[S.R.Custom]

'Match' barrels are indeed worth the money...

But the question you should be asking is "are the barrels Colt puts in their guns any better than cheap junk off the shelf?" And, being the honest guy that I am, I would answer "No."

[gray wolf]

Who is going to fit this big, bucks $$$ barrel ? Bad job = bad shooting.
7 to 10 yards IMHO does not call for a match barrel, Spend the money on making the pistol go bang every time, and on ammo and practice time. Perhaps a good holster.

[snake river marksman]

Match barrels are absolutely worth it. IF you're shooting matches. For a carry barrel, I want one with the sloppiest chamber and fitting around so that it is totally reliable with any and all ammo I could possibly find, and just accurate enough to reliably stay within 4" at 25yds.
OK, I'm exaggerating on the sloppiness bit but you get the point. For a strictly carry gun, a match barrel is totally unnecessary.

[paul45120]

For a carry piece reliability is 10X more important than accuracy.
Your friend needs to spend his money on ammo good mags and holster.
Then practice,practice, practice. And never leave home without it.

[JSnover]

According to the Gun Rags, you need to spend $1000 for a CC weapon and another $2000 getting it tuned by a custom shop. Tell your friend to spend his money on a range permit or gun club membership and practice.

[jsizemore]

Before you invest in a new barrel, buy a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's 'The Colt .45 Automatic, A Shop Manual'. It might give you a little more understanding of what's involved in making a 45 go bang and be accurate. You can put a high dollar barrel and bushing in a wore out frame and slide and you'll only buy frustration. I'm not advocating doing your own gunsmithing, only have a better understanding of what it takes to make a gun accurate and whether what you have is a candidate. Good Luck

[ANeat]

For anything inside of 25 yards I would say its a waste of money. Ive seen some pretty wore out 1911's that still shot 3" at 25 yards.

If you need 2" at 50 yards, yes get a Kart barrel and have it properly installed.

Ive also known some guys that just had to have a Les Baer carry gun, 1.5 inch guarentee at 50 yards,,,,,,,, and the never shoot anything past 10 yards

[JIMinPHX]

A match barrel is worth it if the rest of the gun is up to match grade spec. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link & a 1911 is only as accurate as it's most poorly fit part.

From my personal experience, the hood/barrel fit & bushing/barrel fit are the most important. I've gotten better accuracy than I expected from loose slide rails, despite what a bunch of "pistol smiths" told me.

You can get a chromed barrel for about $60 if you look around. That will be something that will be easier to clean. Other than that, I would not bother with anything more expensive unless the rest of the gun is fit up tight. That usually costs real money.

That Jerry K. book, that was listed 2 posts ago, is worth every penny.

[yondering]

OR is it more important to fit it properly?

A cheap barrel fit properly should outshoot a great barrel fit poorly, in most cases.

You can improve accuracy a bit by just installing a barrel bushing that fits right. Measure the OD of the barrel, and the ID of the slide, and look through the Midway and Brownell's catalogs to find a bushing that matches those specs. That, and tailoring ammo to fit the gun, will be the biggest "bang for the buck", for accuracy improvements. Sloppy barrel hood/slide fit can be partly accounted for with bullet seating depth, within reason.

(Unless he's got a chrome lined barrel with the chrome flaking off in the bore, like my buddy's gun. Then it won't shoot cast bullets too well.)

[BruceB]

IF you're shooting Bullseye competition (3.34" ten-ring at FIFTY yards) then anything you can do to tweak the gun for better accuracy is justified.

For defensive carry, tight-fitting parts are the ENEMY of reliability, and reliability, above all, is the crucial factor. Improvements in sights and trigger-pull are desirable, but target-quality accuracy is NOT. Once you have a gun that works 100% of the time, then practice becomes the important thing.

I have a commercial Colt 1911A1 which is as loose as the day it left the factory in 1959, and that's pretty loose! It will still group inside about 3"-4" at 25 yards with factory ball ammo, and a bit better with cast-bullet handloads tuned for the gun...which I don't normally bother with. I usually load a generic factory-power load which is fired for practice in all our .45 ACPs.

Considering that the most-likely defensive use of the gun will be at much closer range than 25 yards, or even closer than 25 FEET, it is simply idiotic to worry about 25-yard accuracy. I do most of my defensive practice inside ten feet, because that's what my scenarios tell me I'll need. Of course, occasionally I shoot at much longer ranges just for familiarity. That old 1911A1 will hit an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards quite reliably, and it has NO match parts or tuning whatever.

It's much like the target-shooters say: "You can't BUY good scores." Neither can you buy good hits in a defensive shooting. If that dreadful eventuality should come to pass, it will be nerve and skill which win out....NOT the presence of a "match" barrel.

Spend the barrel's price on practice ammo, and the shooter will be better served.

[softpoint]

Most of the time, match grade barrels are indeed worth the money. I prefer the bull barrel configuration and i like Schuemann barrels. Abull barrel doesn't shoot any better, I just like them.
My advice is to shoot the gun first. I have a friend who has a box-stock Colt 1911A1, blued, plain jane that will stay with all but very darn few match pistols. I know this is the exception, but accidents do happen:-D And what level of accuracy does that person require? I'd think that more often than not that extra money ought to be spent on ammo or components.:drinks:

[Frank46]

I used to shoot steel plate matches with a 1943 ithaca. but got a good deal on a springfield nm
pistol with a nowlin bbl and all the goodies. Still have both. Frank

[Wayne Smith]

For carry purposes you are replicating combat conditions. The original design, loose enough that sand won't stop it, is the model you need to follow. That's a battle pistol requirement. For carry the only extra requirement I would have is that it be tight enough not to rattle.

[223tenx]

I agree that for carry #1 is reliability and #2 is accuracy. Now I can print this out and not have to argue the point. Thanks.

[KCSO]

I do some 45 work and have gotten to test a lot of different guns and barrels so for what it is worth...
How good do you shoot? Is this for carry or for target/field use? For carry you want a chamber that will run dirty with any ammo. Now as to the barrels themselves. Remember in the 70's Swenson used Colt stock barrrels fitted and welded. I never shot a Swensen gun that wasn't one hole at 25 yards. For pure target use a match grade barrel properly fitted may, if you are a real good shot, be worth a couple of points in a match. I just finished a Ballester Molina rebuild for a fellow and after fitting and tightening the original barrel will plunk them into 2" at 25 yards. I can't see that he will need anything more for a home defence gun. A Properly fitted standard Colt barrel will shoot 6" groups at 100 yards, a Bar Sto barrel fitted to the same gun would shoot into 4". The Bar Sto had a tight chamber and was ammo finicky and ended up going to a target shooter and the Colt barrel is still in the gun. IMHO too many folks try to replace skill with gizmos and gadgets, most of which are doubtfull in the real world. When you can shoot 90 or better 25 yard slow fire offhand then you should be ready for a match barrel and you'll gain at least two points.

[Echo]

Hear hear. My AFPG wad gun would shoot 2 1/2" groups @ 50 yards, and so would my Willing Competitor (built by Lew Willing), and they both had stock Colt barrels.

[HeavyMetal]

Barrel quality comes into play when re building a worn 1911.

For a lightly used 1911 the box stock barrel should be shot first and evaluated for it's intended purpose!

I have shot a lot of Mark IV's series 70 guns with my pet load of 4.4 grain Winchester 452AA and The Lee H&G 68 clone.

Every one of these untouched guns would put 5 rounds of this load in a hole you could cover with a quarter at 20 yards!

I've shot a few match barrels and, quite honestly, most aren't worth the price!

The Bar Sto's have been the best I've shot and the drop in's provide excellent accuracy for a reasonable price.

[ole 5 hole group]

A very, very good match 45 will print 2 to 2-1/2 inches at 50 yards and will cost you some good money. That pistol will only shoot those groups with a specific load. If you ever run across a 45 that can shoot a hair under 2" at 50 yards, you will have one of only a handful in the USA and you better hang onto it, because it's rare and there will be a 2700 shooter or two that will offer you so much money that will be hard to refuse. I've got a Clark & a Shockey and both were the best in its day and the 10-shot test target shot from a ransom rest was right at 2-3/4 inches at 50 yards. I was never able to shoot to either pistols capabilities, as I would clean the 25 yard target but with only 4 to 7 X-count and high 80's and an occasional mid-90's was the best at 50 yards. The good shooters rarely shot under 90 at 50 yards and raised hell with the X-ring at 25 yards. If your 45 can consistently shoot 2" groups at 25 yards - you got a keeper. There are a few Sig 220's that shoot pretty good right out of the box and anything under 4" at 25 yards is good.

[223tenx]

All very good posts, but I can see that the definition of accuracy depends on where you're coming from. Back when I shot the lug off of the Colt barrel, I was shooting in a Friday night combat club. We aways ended a run with an 8" stop plate and it had to fall, not just spin or clank. So--8" was our target accuracy at ~10yds. Most of us practiced with paper plates as targets. Also bear in mind this was shooting for time as well as score and with a little adreneline load nobody shot 2 0r 3 inch groups and there were a couple of really good shooters with high $ match grade pistols. The better shooters consistantly won-not the better guns.

[Char-Gar]

There are good barrels and bad barrels. There are barrels that fit the slide well and barrels that don't fit the slide well.

If a barrel fits the slide well, you will get all the general accuracy you need. A barrel doesn't have to be fits so tight there is reliability problems under service conditions to give good accurach.

The biggest advantage about a match barrel is they are oversize in the rights areas, so they can be fitted to any slide. The higher quality of the inside of the barrel is just icing on the cake.

A couple of years back I bought a new Sprinfield GI and the accuracy was deplorable. About five or six inches at 25 yards after 1,000 round. The springer comes with a two piece barrel. I bought a good used Colt barrel and with a little fitting, it droped right in. Accuracy shrunk immeidately to 2 to 3 inches at 25 yards and 100% reliability.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that barrel fit comes first for match barrels or service barrels. A good smith can fit a new match barrel to either match tolerances or service tolerances.