Weighing Cast Boolits?

[HiWayMan]

Simple enough, I know. Do you weigh your bullets before or after applying lube and does it make a difference? Currently I weigh a 10% random sampling after sizing and lubing to get an average weight. At most the lube would contribute maybe 3/10 of a grain I would think.

[NVcurmudgeon]

HiWayMan, first, I only weigh CB when I think I may need the utmost precision. That would be for postal matches, the Nevada Cast Bullet Shoot, or when working up a load. Most of my other shooting is from standing or kneeling positions, where I can't shoot well enough to need weighed boolits, visual inspection is plenty good. When I do weigh boolits, I am trying to eliminate internal variations that might cause a flyer-voids, weight variations caused by non uniform temperature, etc. Therefore I weigh before sizing, lubricating, or adding gas checks. I can't do anything about the weight of the GC or lube, so I ignore it.

[454PB]

I've done the weighing routine and found that a good visual inspection before sizing and lubing is all that is required. I did an experiment comparing the two methods, and found that it made no difference in accuracy. These weighed boolits were segregated into about five different lots, and each of the five lots shot the same. Weighing certainly takes a lot more time, and after doing hundreds of them I found that my boolits only varied by a few grains.

[Sailman]

HiWayMan

If you want to get some idea how critical it is to weigh bullets, try the following.

When you start casting bullets, save the bullets that come out of the mold when the mold is not up to casting temerature. I am talking about the ones that look like prunes, wrinkles etc. However they must have a good base for the gas check.
Weigh those bullets and record their weight.

Next, after the mold warms up and is casting good bullets, select the best looking bullets and weigh and record their weight.

Load up two lots of cartridges, one lot using the prune bullets and one lot using the good bullets.

Go to the range and shoot those two lots of cartridges. You will probably find out that there is not much difference between the two lots.

Having said the above, if you were going to shoot in a match with lead bullets and you are not lazy like me, you might want to weigh the bullets to give you a slight advantage over shooting bullets selected at random.

It is critical when you make the above test to use a rifle that has a scope. By using a scope mounted rifle you eliminate much of the sight error that is possible by shooting an iron sight rifle.

Sailman

[Bob S]

I guess whether weighing your bullets makes a difference depends on if you're shooting something that would be able to tell the difference, and what your accuracy standard is. Harry Pope weighed his bullets to the tenth of a grain, both as cast AND after he greased them. Some of the other old-timers didn't feel it was necessary. Pope usually won.

I cast with a dipper and I use a themometer, keeping the melt with 10 degrees. If my bullets vary by more than a few TENTHS of grain after both the melt and the mould are up to temp, something is wrong. For serious shooting, "keepers" are +/- 0.1; and since about 85/100 will make it in those limits once the median weight of a cast lot is found, weighing goes quickly. With weighing and orienting the bullets from the mould to the chamber, I seldom get unexplained fliers.

For semi-serious shooting, I accept +/- 0.2, and with those limits, I seldom have to reject a bullet. "Semi-serious" shooting would be an as-issued rifle.

This is an old target, which is why the pic is crap. These bullets were NOT weighed. With a Leuopold 24 X scope on the Model 70 international, that low shot was NOT called out of the group, nor were the ones to the left. That's the kind of thing weighing and orienting can minimize.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/BobS1/Lee309160R.jpg

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[sundog]

I started a 'Saturday at the Range' thread yesterday about my segregating brass experiment. The other part of that experiment is weighed and cavity segregated boolits. Weighing is esential, just like Bob said, if you are going to squeeze every last point out of a batch of ammo. If you and your equipment are not up to the task, then weighing is an exercise in wasting resources - your time. If you want those last one or two points, weigh, segregate cavities, and if your really needing to, orientation. Many of my rifle moulds have registration marks, it helps with cavity segregation. I started weighing years ago to find the light weights (boolits with voids) in an attempt to eliminate unexplained flyers - rounds called good only to see an errant round on the paper. Those eliminated, it then became a quest to shrink group sizes. I've shot ALOT of targets that look just like the one Bob posted. If you REALLY WANT that last point or two, you have to work at. sundog

[StarMetal]

I most certainly agree that for the upmost accuracy out of your cast bullet to do the things that have been mentioned. But Bob said of his old target where these weren't done you get those flyers and that those flyers could be eliminated by doing all the steps. Not so, factory jacketed match bullets are as near perfect a bullet that can be made and still one will get flyers. I wanted to mention this so you won't be unhappy when you do EVERY step and DON"T get one ragged hole. There are ALOT of things that can cause a flyer BESIDES the bullet.

Joe

[Junior1942]

It's gnats, I tell you, gnats. And skeeters.

[Bob S]

But Bob said of his old target where these weren't done you get those flyers and that those flyers could be eliminated by doing all the steps. Joe

I believe I said I *seldom* get unexplained fliers. "Eliminate" changed to "minimize". Everybody happy now?

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[StarMetal]

Bob,

No, I'm not happy now....I want to get rid of those flyers!! :Fire:[smilie=l:

Joe

[sundog]

The batch I shot Saturday were all same cavity and +/- 0.5 gr. I've previously done +/- 0.1 and for my set of conditions I cannot tell a difference. Longer range, better sights, better gun, I might be able to tell. Maybe next match I'll go back to +/- 0.1 just to see..., one more time. The thing is that when yer arunnin' along weighing 181.2, 181.3, 181.2, etc, and all of a sudden ya git a 178.4, ya know sumthan's wrong with THAT boolit!

And, Junior, it ain't a gnat. It's a gnat's ass. You're a good feller, and I like ya, but PLEASE don't tell anyone in my family I weigh my match boolits. Please? :mrgreen: sundog

[HiWayMan]

Well I pretty much figured it wouldn't make a bit of difference for practice, but my Lee .358 148gr TLWC casts at about 154gr. That is a big difference to me when developing safe loads. With slight variations in alloy they vary up to two grains either way.

My wife says I'm anal about this stuff. I prefer to call it precise. Besides if I load all my ammo to be as exactly alike as possible, then I know whatever happens on the target is my doing. No need to chase down flies that aren't in the ointment.

[felix]

Joe, the factory match boolits are indeed great. They make runs that will do tenth inch groups at hunnert, but those batches are far and few in between. If you want the best, you have to get the hand swaged boolits from the BR boys (their wives) themselves. Theirs will do tenth inch groups from batch to batch. The feel of the hand is not wrong. ... felix

[lovedogs]

Might as well put my 2 cents worth in here. When I first got serious about long-range silhouette shooting using 500 gr. in my .45-70 I hadn't gotten all my stuff together to mould my own and I bought some from Frank at Mt. Baldy Custom Bullets. I asked if he weighed the bullets. He replied only for those who ask for it and there's an extra fee for that. In further conversation he stated that a visual inspection is usually all that's needed with this big bullet. It can be a relative thing. With a big bullet to vary even a grain or two is a small percentage of the bullet weight. Of course, it would depend on why there was a variance, also. And how big and where a void might be located, if that was the problem.

[waksupi]

A friend of mine, who used to run the Lone Tree BPCR matches, was once told he needed to weigh his bullets, to be competitive. He said, I did weigh them, they weigh 27 pounds. Then the professor told him, he also had to weigh his powder. He sez, no I don't, it says one pound, right there on the outside of the can!

[David R]

I like to weigh target boolits or " match " boolits I pour my self. I can get 1" groups at 100 yards out of my 308 with a 311644 and 46 grains of WC860. I get 3" on a good day with my enfield. Why weigh the ones for the enfield?

My 22-250 will shoot 1.75" at 100 yards. Weigh the boolits to .3 grains and 1" groups are obtainable.

I don't weigh many boolits, but am working on a 300 yard load for the 308. Right now I am getting 5" 10 shot groups with visiually inspected boolits. I would like to see what I can get with my "match" grade cast boolits. I found a scale at nanchez (sp?) I am going to order. $35.00 plus shipping.

Weighing boolits on a balance beam is just too frustrating. Yeah, it works, but a digital scale would save me a bunch of time.

We shoot a lot of cast 30 cal boolits. Most are from 6 bangers with visiual inspection shot at short range over 13 grains of Red Dot (Promo) More fun, less stress.

David

[Bass Ackward]

The secret to all cast bullet shooting is to do what you have to do to get the accuracy you are satisfied with. Use a thoughtful, methodical process to test all variables and you will answer all questions as the answers pertain to you. Jump around, and luck becomes part of the picture.


If you find positioning in a chamber benificial, position.

If you find it benificial to weigh, then by all means weigh.

If you have to change lube, change lube.

If you need a filler, then fillertate. (like that?)

But if you shoot slower powders and seat into the lands, you get wider margins for error or room to wiggle and all variables lessen in their effect. Sometimes you can get away with .... murder.

So it all comes down to doing what you have to do.

[NucEm]

When i want the most accuracy of my cartridges i weight sort the cases. So yes, if i done that i surely have to weight the bullets too:) But for 25 yards pappershooting i would never do that. When the range increases, to weight bullets gives me confidence so it helps me , do i get better accuracy? Well i do 'cause iam more confident:drinks:
This is the only instance, (weight and sort cases and bullets) that i use my digital scale :)

[lovedogs]

Don't know how it happened but my previous post only got part of the message posted. The rest of the post said:

After talking with Mt. Baldy I decided to try my own tests. I culled a batch of bullets that were all close in weight. Then I made up another batch of just "as cast". At 100 and 200 yds. I couldn't tell any difference in how they shot. They were all shooting MOA. That's about as good as I can do with aperture sights.

Then I went to the silhouette range to try it on steel. Out to 550 yds. I still got good grouping, almost always around MOA. The jury is still out on the far target. Our buffalo is a half-mile away so I'm waiting for a dead-still day to see what will happen. I think what I'll find is that variances in velocity will be more of a problem at that range than bullet weights. Much of a velocity variation makes a humongous difference at long ranges. So far, unless there's a lot of weight difference, or a poor base, I'm not finding it makes any difference. And, possibly, it would make more difference with lighter, smaller bullets than those huge 500 gr. .45-70's I'm using.