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Tom W.
02-08-2010, 04:33 AM
While watching "Mythbusters" today the guys were going to show if two Minnie balls could actually fuse together if hit in mid flight.
Adam told how easy it was to cast a few bullets. He melted some what looked like filthy lead ingots, took a small ladle and poured the dirty lead into a mould, stuck the hot mold with the bullet in it into a bowl of water to "cool it", and slammed the mold several times on the table to dislodge the bullet.

I almost came unglued.

They showed a picture of his bullets, and I will say that they all had inclusions, and most were not even filled out completely. I wonder why they don't find someone who knows what they are doing when they do such as that? My guess is that the weren't even lubricated when the were loaded...

Nora
02-08-2010, 05:10 AM
Ya but this is Adam we are talking about. He is a visual effects expert with a really huge shop full of stuff to build before eventually blowing it up. I haven't seen the episode, but also wouldn't be surprised if he hadn't used a O/A torch to do the heating with.

So how did the experiment eventually play out???

Nora

lwknight
02-08-2010, 05:14 AM
So what was the outcome?

Shiloh
02-08-2010, 06:55 AM
Sundays episode was about the Hindenberg dirigible. Didn't see this one.

Shiloh

Bret4207
02-08-2010, 08:02 AM
I really don't understand people watching shows like that, but it's better than those home decorating shows, the ghost chaser shows, etc. I watched Great Planes for about 15 minutes between lambing, frozen pipes and finding out all ear taggers don't work with all types of tags.

Nate1778
02-08-2010, 11:33 AM
I like Mythbusters, its fun to watch and although they are wrong on some occasions the experiments are entertaining and stuff I wish I could do. I am surprised on how many firearm episodes they have for the filming location. I would have thought that San Fransisco's finest would have put the kibosh on that in season 1.

I did not see the episode you were talking about yesterday, but the step son had one on that he TIVO'ed. Something was said that bothered me all the way to Lowe's after seeing it. They were trying to fire a Glock 17 or 19 hard to tell into the chamber of a onlooking Colt .38 revolver. One of those million to one shots. They never could get the bullet to stay together once it got in the chamber. Adam's reasoning for this is the 9mm bullet is slightly bigger than the .38 chamber. [smilie=b:

Ajax
02-08-2010, 11:36 AM
just more BS knowledge out there from the experts.

Andy

sheepdog
02-08-2010, 11:39 AM
Adam's reasoning for this is the 9mm bullet is slightly bigger than the .38 chamber. [smilie=b:

Yeah I remember cracking up when I heard that. Never mind the .355 will start to elongate after going down the barrel or that the cylinders are sized for cases rather than boolit size. They probably had .045 or so room to play.

theperfessor
02-08-2010, 11:51 AM
Mythbusters - long on entertainment, short on real science. My wife loves it, I grit my teeth and find something else to do.

lwknight
02-08-2010, 12:14 PM
They make a 30 minute show out of a 3 or 4 minute experiment for sure.
Some good info has come from mthbusters though. One of the good ones showed that a typical rifle bullet free falls flat and has terminal velocity of about 95 mph.

BeeMan
02-08-2010, 12:30 PM
My 12 year old son can see the holes in that waste of an hour show. There's just not much of redeeming value on the tube, unless you just want bubble gum for your mind.

BeeMan

Edit to add: I watched a few episodes and the inputs are often sloppy as described. What good can a conclusion be with that lack of integrity in the test?

Bubble gum

Willbird
02-08-2010, 12:33 PM
Yeah I remember cracking up when I heard that. Never mind the .355 will start to elongate after going down the barrel or that the cylinders are sized for cases rather than boolit size. They probably had .045 or so room to play.

A .335 bullet fired at a 38/357 revolver throat (entering from the front) would only have .003" to play with......which is a pretty tough shot.

The 9mm bullet should leave the 9mm pistol .355 in dia.

Bill

dragonrider
02-08-2010, 12:40 PM
One program was about a bullet fired and one dropped at the same time, will they hit the ground at the same time? They proved it, yes. I find show entertaining but not always accurate.

303Guy
02-08-2010, 12:42 PM
It's not a science show, no, but heck those dudes are clever at what they can concoct! Frinstance, they did bullet penetration into water tests and showed that a 30-06 FMJ-word fired into a swimming pool just disintegrates on impact! Pistol bullets penetrate better and the water filled bullet catch filled with water fractured with a shotgun slug - that's why they moved to a swimming pool!:mrgreen: They also showed Davey Crocket could've shot two squirrels with one shot from a muzzle loader by splitting the ball on an ax between them.

Bill*
02-08-2010, 12:42 PM
Missed the results, but saw the casting part. It's not easy to grin while gritting your teeth. But now I know how to get my boolits out of the mould:shock:

Rocky Raab
02-08-2010, 01:10 PM
They eventually did get two minies to stick together after impact. The major difficulty they had was getting both guns to go off at the same time - they kept hitting one muzzle with the bullet that fired first. It never dawned on them that the time of flight across ten feet or so is pretty small!

I agree that their gun knowledge is woeful. But what do you expect from beret-wearing San Franciscans?

Jon
02-08-2010, 01:34 PM
I would imagine that 1 square mile would be pretty tight for a modern fighter.

dakotashooter2
02-08-2010, 03:38 PM
One thing they never account for when dealing with firearms is standard deviation of the rounds. In some of the tests they do timing is crutial. They will test one round for velocity and assume all rounds are the same. Now the difference may come down to only milliseconds but often that is enough to throw a test off.

Blammer
02-08-2010, 04:40 PM
the fokker will win.. :) FA18 won't make to the dogfight before running out of fuel. :)

Boz330
02-08-2010, 05:24 PM
the fokker will win.. :) FA18 won't make to the dogfight before running out of fuel. :)

Not to mention that the turn inside a square mile would probably put the pilot to sleep from the G-load.

Bob

opentop
02-08-2010, 05:40 PM
the guys were going to show if two Minnie balls could actually fuse together if hit in mid flight.


The museum at Gettysburg has an example of two Minnie Balls fused together that was found on the Battlefield.


They also showed Davey Crocket could've shot two squirrels with one shot from a muzzle loader by splitting the ball on an ax between them.

My son (who is 13) does that with a 32 cal muzzleloader and clay birds. An ax head is fastoned to a log, then a clay bird placed on each side of the ax. He has split the ball and busted the birds more than once.

FISH4BUGS
02-08-2010, 07:18 PM
...........that reminds me of why I haven't had a TV for 25 years.

waksupi
02-08-2010, 08:50 PM
The museum at Gettysburg has an example of two Minnie Balls fused together that was found on the Battlefield.



My son (who is 13) does that with a 32 cal muzzleloader and clay birds. An ax head is fastoned to a log, then a clay bird placed on each side of the ax. He has split the ball and busted the birds more than once.

We also do that. A twist that is added at one shoot, you are sitting on a wooden horse. You have to load and not let your rifle touch the ground. Then you have to hold the reins in your teeth to shoot. The reins are short enough you can't sit upright, unless you are very small. Then you must reload, and engage another target. We only do this at one invitational shoot. Wouldn't care to be around pilgrims doing this.

jimb16
02-08-2010, 08:58 PM
Another example of their lack of knowledge is the Robin Hood arrow split. They called it busted because the arrow kept exiting the side of the arrow that was split since the point followed the grain. Actually they proved it plausible. The arrows of that time were not turned dowel rods, but straight limbs so the grain ran from one end to the other and not out the side like a turned dowel! DUH!

jonk
02-08-2010, 09:03 PM
I liked the one where they tried to see if a bullet fired straight up would come down with equal force.

Duh.

A common understanding of even the most basic ballistic concepts coupled with a quick read through Hatcher's notebook proves that is bunk.

Uncle R.
02-08-2010, 09:09 PM
I suspect they already know the answers - I doubt they're that dumb.
Remember - it's TV.
It's not being done for the research value - it's being done to mystify and entertain the really dumb audience - so that the sponsors can sell 'em soap - and beer - and cars - and expensive gadgets they don't need.

spqrzilla
02-08-2010, 11:06 PM
Actually, as television goes, they do a better job of accuracy in firearms knowledge than most. Not perfect but better than most. So I can't condemn them.

Tom W.
02-09-2010, 08:03 AM
There's a pair of fused minnie balls in the museum at the USMA, West Point.

I too have split a roundball on an axe head and broke opposing clay pigeons.
I even "barked" a tree rat once.

qajaq59
02-09-2010, 08:09 AM
I'll give them one thing. They can build about anything they want in that shop. That sailboat covered with duct tape was pretty darn good, and I've built a lot of skin covered boats.

Tom W.
02-09-2010, 04:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9As6AMGifSY&feature=related

Something else they tried to debunk on the show, but again, they used modern scopes, not the type that the Soviet rifle had.. This looks more like the truth...

sheepdog
02-09-2010, 06:31 PM
I suspect they already know the answers - I doubt they're that dumb.
Remember - it's TV.
It's not being done for the research value - it's being done to mystify and entertain the really dumb audience - so that the sponsors can sell 'em soap - and beer - and cars - and expensive gadgets they don't need.

Got to remember their target audience is the A18-24 (Adam and Jamie team) and the T12-17 (Kari, Grant, and Tory) groups. This show is little more than Bill Nye meets *******.

BeeMan
02-09-2010, 07:26 PM
... This show is little more than Bill Nye meets *******.


[smilie=l:

jcwit
02-09-2010, 08:36 PM
Its ALL about ratings to sell commercial time, and nothing more. If they didn't have the ratings they would be history for there would be no sponsors to buy commercial time.

Wheather correct or not.

Very simple.

qajaq59
02-10-2010, 08:35 AM
This show is little more than Bill Nye meets *******. I sure wont argue that. But I wish I owned 10% of that show. If I did, I could buy a new rifle every day!! [smilie=l:

JIMinPHX
02-10-2010, 09:36 AM
That show has a few flaws in it, but it sure is a step up from Mcguyver. At least the mythbuster stuff has some reasonable attempt made to relate it to something that really does happen. It's not perfect, but it could be worse.

The one that bugged me was when they tested the old west story about a deck of cards or a lighter stopping a bullet from a derringer in a saloon fight. They called it busted after testing the two targets in question with modern ammo. I guess that they didn't realize that holy black & a short barrel don't kick up the same kind of velocity that the modern smokeless stuff does.

Willbird
02-10-2010, 10:35 AM
That show has a few flaws in it, but it sure is a step up from Mcguyver. At least the mythbuster stuff has some reasonable attempt made to relate it to something that really does happen. It's not perfect, but it could be worse.

The one that bugged me was when they tested the old west story about a deck of cards or a lighter stopping a bullet from a derringer in a saloon fight. They called it busted after testing the two targets in question with modern ammo. I guess that they didn't realize that holy black & a short barrel don't kick up the same kind of velocity that the modern smokeless stuff does.

Also too many times when they test penetration they fix the object to be shot to a solid backing. If you have ever shot at steel plates and other things you know that one that can swing is less easily penetrated. Well the same would be true of an object carried on a humans body I would think. And bullets HAVE been stopped by badges so we know that it does happen sometimes.

Bill

Nate1778
02-10-2010, 11:36 AM
You do have to apprieciate a cement truck filled with 500lbs of fertilizer and C4. None of us here can't say we wouldn't give it a go....

lathesmith
02-10-2010, 03:54 PM
You do have to apprieciate a cement truck filled with 500lbs of fertilizer and C4. None of us here can't say we wouldn't give it a go....


Exactly. Great entertainment value, and lots of gun(and explosives) play to boot! Actually, their methodology has gotten more rigorous in the last few years, they have gotten better at employing more scientific methods. Those guys are great fabricators, it's quite obvious they are very comfortable in the shop. I guess I am being contrarian here, but I do enjoy watching the show...

lathesmith