Health hazards with casting boolits

[MaxJon]

Hi all! Ok i know there have been some good info on this subject on this awesome mine of information. My question is does anybody bother to wear some sort of respitory mask while pouring bullets? Or do you simply cast outdoors, at the door of the shed, or use a good exhaust fan? All that i read is "adequate ventilation". what is adequate ventilation? The removal of smoke from a lit match i am told is "adequate". Any tips/ideas would be great!! I must admit i have only cast 300 or so bullets!

[fredj338]

I don't while casting. The casting temps aren't enough to cause lead fumes. Most fumes are from fluxing. I just open the garage door a bit & let the air circulate.

[mooman76]

You'll pick up more from handleing lead than from breathing. I just crack the garage door and don't have a problem. I had my blood checked with a DR and said my levels were very low fo lead so no problem there. You can wear disposable gloves or wash your hands good after handling.

[DLCTEX]

You have to heat lead over 1,000 degrees to get any vaporization and that's way too hot for casting. Don't smoke, drink, or eat while casting and wash your hands when finished. I wear heavy gloves when casting, smelting.

[mdi]

All good, common sense answers! Lead is not the evil poison most politicians want you to think it is. Lead oxide and lead vapors areharmful and build up over a period of time. I read a study by the CDC on lead poisoning in hunters. Short answer; ain't none!

[nighthunter]

The worst health hazzard I have been subjected to from casting bullets is that it makes me more stupid and more addicted to the casting way of life. It makes me want to accumulate more molds and more WW's and more gas checks and more primers and more powder. It takes away quality time at home as I want to spend more time at the range shooting up all the bullets I cast. Then I spend time at the range back stops trying to find as many of the spent bullets as possible so I can take them home for remelting and being made into new bullets. Yes ... I am a Bullet Caster. I've been thinking of joining a twelve step program of Bullet Casters Anonymous but I just don't think I am ready to quit. When I reach the point where I am as bad as some of the members here I might take another look at myself.

Nighthunter

[lathesmith]

I have noticed that on those TV shows where they show "professionals" that work with lead every day, there are only a couple of places where respirators are used: 1) The guys that handle old batteries; and 2) In the actual smelting area, where huge amounts of recycled lead is being melted, or raw is ore is smelted. Neither of these scenarios is remotely like what you encounter at home; for small amounts of lead like most casters handle, a small fan/open window is fine for ventilation, and keep your hands away from your face until after you have washed them. Gloves make certain chores easier--I prefer latex or similar for just handling lead, and for some tasks(actual casting) leather is perfect. One piece of gear to ALWAYS use--eye protection. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT CASTING OR MELTING LEAD WITHOUT EYE WEAR! The other stuff may be optional or debatable, but this one is NOT. Otherwise, get to melting, and enjoy shooting more!

lathesmith

[Spudgunr]

If you guys want a little more science to it, here is my research that has convinced me I'm safe casting indoors (garage) with no door open. I don't do a TON of casting, if I did I MAY get a little vent fan to go out the window. I'm looking at a kitchen fume hood, connected to a dryer vent flex hose to throw out the window. But, until then, I feel safe.

I found an OSHA letter stating the max lead concentration for an indoor range is 50 micrograms per cubic meter (this should be the PEL, permissible exposure limit, based on breathing this for an 8 hour shift).

At lead's melting point (621F) the vapor pressure is 4X10^-7 Pa (400 parts per trillion)
@800F its 1X10^-4 Pa (1 part per billion)
@1300F it is 1Pa (10 ppm)

So, at 800F that is 12 micrograms per cubic meter, at the molten leads SURFACE, 1/4 of OSHA's PEL (and you KNOW they are conservative!)
800 would be a good casting temperature. At 1300 it would be significantly higher, 10,000 times higher actually.

So, dont melt on a turkey fryer and let it get SUPER heated. You are fine at normal casting temperatures. Of course, that is an outdoor operation regardless due to all the **** in wheel weights.

BTW: Zinc melts at less than 800F. If you haven't melted your zinc wheel weights you haven't exceeded that temperature.

Based on the math I have no qualms about casting in the garage.

[runfiverun]

based on my recent blood work and after working with lead oxides for a couple of years professionally.
i have no problems working in my enclosed garage casting.
don't ingest the stuff.

[RobS]

All good information............

A bit of info on washing as I was asked this and it makes sense. Do you wash with warm, hot, or cold water? The answer is cold as with warm or hot water will open up the pores of the skin more and makes it easier for your skin to absorb things. A big one is ingesting by eating or drinking or even smoking while working with lead.

[RaymondMillbrae]

Here is a geat report to read on lead contamination.

NIOSH ALERT - PREVENTING OCCUPATIONAL EXPOSURE TO LEAD & NOISE AT INDOOR FIRING RANGES (http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2009-136/pdfs/2009-136.pdf)

When you open the link, scroll down and start reading at pages 6 through 11.

Of interest, take note of HOW the lead is spread, and WHERE it is spread. (Yup...even the carpeting of your home)!

This is not pointing the finger at bullet-casters in particular. But it is just to make you aware that lead (in it's various forms) can pose a health hazard if you are not aware.

Be careful if you work at an indoor range. (Especially those with poor ventilation). Be careful while recovering bullets at indoor ranges. Be careful when sweeping brass at indoor ranges. Be careful when tumbling brass in media to clean it. Be careful when shooting (or shooting alongside) those who use cast bullets in high power rifles at indoor ranges. And most importantly, just be careful...period.

Like I said, I am not pointing fingers at anyone. Bullet casters usually keep the lead below the vaporizing point. But then again, we sure handle/touch the heck out of it, and have the particulates all over our clothing and shoes.

Just wanted to give yall something to read. (The better informed you are, the better decisions you are opt to make).

Shoot with a purpose.

In Christ: Raymond

[Marlin Hunter]

... My question is does anybody bother to wear some sort of respitory mask while pouring bullets? ...

Sometimes I wear a mask with a P100 filter. If you get one, try to get a filter that is some type of paper instead of cloth, or has some type of metal screen cover. If for some reason you splash lead on the filter, the cloth one will melt through, but not the paper.

[Shooter6br]

Best chance of getting lead poison. buy products with lead(Chi-com) and chew on them.If you believe in the global warming hoax and the EPA ,Carbon dioxide is hazardous. So dont exhale, or drink carbonated drinks ( just flat beer!!)

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I *twitch,twitch* cast in my *twitch* basement.

[madsenshooter]

I was a nutrition major in the 90's. Ingested lead is poorly absorbed, most is passed out in the feces. Beyond smelting outdoors to avoid the noxious fumes from the paint on the WW, that's as good as it's going to get. I'm going to cast in the comfort of home. If I had to put on a decontamination suit and respirator in order to do it, I simply wouldn't do it. Raymond, male ducks exposed to certain pollutants take on the behaviors of female ducks. Must be a lot of those pollutants in the SF area. You'd should be more concerned about inhaling/ingesting them than what you're going to get from making bullets. The lead at an indoor range is from the smashing of bullets into the backstop and from the lead in the primers that becomes airborne. Guess we should wear a respirator when we shoot, make a cutout on the stock for the respirator. Enough of this paranoia!

[RaymondMillbrae]

Hey guys, don't get me wrong. I'm with you!

I was just passing on some information...that's all.

I am neither paranoid, nor compulsive. I just wanted to throw out some facts for other to chew on. What you do with these research articles are your own business. If you want to discredit them from the "git-go"...then fine with me.

If you want to cast in shorts, without eye protection, without gloves, and totally oblivious to all safety precautions...that's fine. If you have read all the lead research, and come to the conclusion that it is safe to cast in your garage...then fine as well. More power to you.

But myself - and maybe others - might want to make decisions by knowing a bit more about lead and the POSSIBLE ways to be negatively exposed to it. Maybe we would like to read the reports ourselves, and make-up our own minds...and not make our decisions based on some comments from "self educated Google junkies" who consistently write comments on internet forums without having any formal education on the matter. (Speaking in general, of course, and not towards anyone specifically).

If "big brother" told you something, would you automatically believe them?

If Pelosi, that Greek mogul, or Rom Emmanuel made an absolute statement about how gun abolishment would help to control crime, would you take it hook-line-and-sinker?

Of course not.

Then why would you want us readers to do the same?

Put out the information, let us glean through it and "test it"...and then let everyone make up their own mind on the matter. Someone (like yourself) may have read the facts and come to the conclusion that it is OK to cast the way they are doing it. Fine! As an informed adult, that is your American right.

I have never gone to a thread and publically busted someone out on their beliefs...no matter how silly they may sound on the surface. But I have given differing opinions to give "food for thought" on many topics.

I am new to this forum, as well as to casting boolitz - so by no means am I an authority on this subject matter. But I can use common sense, read all the articles I can find on the proper use for handling lead, and come to my own conclusions. (As others should).

I am enjoying all the great information I have read on his forum, and I am pleasantly pleased with the knowledge I have found therin. But I must always be cautious, as I sometimes read comments that don't sound quite right. (Maybe I don't know enough yet...or maybe I was correct).

And in closing: what is all this matter about "male ducks exposed to certain pollutants take on the behaviors of female ducks"? Are you implying that I am homosexual? Are you trying to get a free chuckle because of where I live?

I served the last 6 years of my 10-year enlistment to my country (and for you) as an Army Ranger. And let me emphatically say, I am not a homosexual!

And while we are on the topic...do 4 years as an Army Nuclear, Biological, and Chemical Warfare Specialist (NBC), and then education in molecular genetics and a secondary in microbiology count for anything in my ability to reason and interpret facts? (I have a very good grasp of what I have read, and how to interpret what I have read).

Please don't try to get a laugh at my expense. I am a proud man, so please approach me humbly.

As for us radical/liberal "freaks" here in the SF Bay Area - be careful. Yall say we are the liberal nation that has imploded. But I say...careful.

Why?

Because what politically starts here, usually ends-up covering the rest of the nation as it travels eastward. My friends, whether you admit it or not (cuz you may not be aware of it), we ARE your battlefront! We are 2nd Amendment soldiers fighting the radical left as the rest of the nation sleeps in "supposed" peace. We are trying to stop the nonsense HERE, before it reaches yall when you were not expecting it.

Support Californians fighting for your 2nd Amendment rights, as it will indireclty effect you as well. (Yall were warned)

Just food for thought.

Shoot with a purpose.

In Christ: Raymond

[AZ-Stew]

Don't directly handle anything that goes into your mouth while handling lead/alloys. Cigarettes are a biggie. Lead particulates are heated to temperatures above what we use to cast with when the cigarette burns down to where you've been handling it. Then you inhale it. I usually have a drink handy while casting. It's a couple of feet from the pot. I don't touch the part of the drink container that touches my mouth. I don't handle food until I've washed my hands with dish washing soap and a brush. Two years ago I had my blood tested for lead during my physical. The level was 4. Last year it was 2. I cast indoors and seldom use the vent fan. The fan (bathroom-type vent fan) is better at making noise than it is at moving air. It's mounted on the wall directly behind the casting pot, but I don't think it does much good.

Regards,

Stew

[thx997303]

Calm down there Raymond.

Seemed like alight hearted way to say, Don't worry too much about the lead. To me.

[wills]

“_ Keep molten lead temperature below 1000°
F to minimize lead fumes and particulate
emissions during lead transfer and drossing
of castings and molds.”
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/leadsmelter/pdf/secondaryleadsmelterrefiningtask.pdf

[RaymondMillbrae]

Stew,

I think you hit the nail on the head.

It is NOT the lead vapors that are a hazard. (Because we do not heat lead high enough to vaporize it),. The hazard comes from when we walk, touch, and eat objects that contain the lead particulates. In a sense, we are the vectors for the lead particulates getting into our bodies, and into our households. (By accidental ingestion, or by physically tracking it into our rooms and carpets on our clothes).

The key is to be aware.

Be aware of what you need to protect yourself from the secondary fumes, as well as from the lead particulates that are all over our work space...and hobby place. (Shooting ranges).

Just reading that others are aware, and are taking precautionary measures, is a nice "sigh of relief" for me.

I also have my blood tested yearly...but never for lead levels.

This year it will be added to my yearly physical, as I will be casting throughout 2010.

In Christ: Raymond

PS: Sorry guys. I told you I was a proud guy. Come at me too forward, and I instinctively put up a wall really quick.

PSS: *Mental Note* Raymond...breathe in...breathe out. Breathe in...breathe out. ;)

PSSS: Thanks for the link, Wills. I had not read that report.

[Spudgunr]

I forgot that I had looked up other temperatures and vapor pressures:

My 12 micrograms per cubic meter was actually based on 815 degrees, not 800

870 degrees - 60 micrograms per cubic meter (just above OSHA PEL)
925 - 125 micrograms per cubic meter

Vapor pressure is expotential, so I would avoid going over 870 degrees for any length of time. But, the way vapor pressure works, that concentration is at the source of the lead. It would take a long time to get your whole garage up to that concentration.

Source: Osha's PEL, and I majored in chemical engineering. It just took me a while to find the reference for lead's vapor pressure curve (I had looked multiple times, took a while to find it, the above numbers are based on what I did find, source to be provided later).

[Cherokee]

I've been casting bullets in a basement or workshop for 40+ years without any special venting. I have my blood levels checked annually and they are normal.

[Spudgunr]

Here is the vapor pressure curve of lead, on page 347. They may take it down at any moment, who knows? WHen I looked last, it was there.

http://books.google.com/books?id=S20NsqXx0XgC&pg=PA345&lpg=PA345&dq=%22vapor+pressure+of+lead%22&source=bl&ots=HpTLljdYQQ&sig=TggIFYiMvaAYj_kGKVdw3rehNu8&hl=en&ei=CBY6S-D8D9CflAek162lBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCAQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=%22vapor%20pressure%20of%20lead%22&f=false

[madsenshooter]

I didn't mean any such personal thing towards you Raymond, I don't know you. I'll admit it was a bit of a shot at the bay area however. Gotta admit, there's probably a higher percentage of them around there than most areas. Then there's the male fish offshore turning female, that's scary from an evolutionary standpoint. (estrogen mimics) Is there not a passage in the good book where God says he will make a man, meaning a male, a rarity? The biological sciences was my major too. Such things are intriguing to me. I am a veteran too, I have no credentials from my service that would compare to yours. My military claim to fame is that I was in the same outfit as the comedian Sinbad. I gave as examples in another post the children eating paint flakes and a fellow washing his hands in leaded gasoline several times a day for 60 years, yet who lived to be 82. The bottom line is, no matter how many precautions we take, something is eventually going to kill us, may as well not fret overly much and have fun while we're here. That was advice given to me by that old mechanic. Just carry on, and I'll keep out of it, except when I see some newbie worried about lead vapors. Oh, and welcome to the forums.

[303Guy]

Mmmmm ...... I'd say that lead is indeed deadly! Call it poisonous if you like but it's deadly! Kills deer dead! That makes it deadly in my books. :mrgreen:

For us casters, the trick is to not smoke while casting - or eating, or driving, or anything! :kidding: You get my drift. It's one of the last things we need to worry about. [smilie=1:

[sheepdog]

If youre careful about handles, casting smartly, and washing carefully you'll probbaly get more lead intake from tap water than bullet casting.

[deerslayer]

Not to beat a dead horse but after smoking for the better part of the last 15 years and quitting in the last year right before i started casting i will have to say lead fumes from casting are nothing compared to cigarretes they are a killer. My father in law was a plumber and worked with lead daily for 15 or 20 years before no hub came out and he nor any of his friends have any lead related issues. Daily they would smelt it, pour it, hammer and chisel it, file and saw it and solder with 50/50 as well, all of this in enclosed buildings usually. They even used a running rope on horizontal pipe joints (to keep the lead in the joint when molten) which was just a piece of rope that was flipped in the air to clean. I have not seen one lawyer advertising to get old plumbers money on tv for lead problems?? My father in law is tested yearly because he worked on a longterm nuc cleanup and they do a yearly physical where they test for everything he could have been exposed to including lead.
I am not saying you should eat a lead paintchip sandwich or anything and with regards to PPE usually common sense is good sense. Glasses and even a facesheild are great ideas due to molten metal and the tinsel fairy but a resperator?? Maybe you should go full gear, there is always some fire fighter turnout gear on ebay that and a mask and a breathing air tank and you are good to go. Oh wait then you would need an $8000 dollar washing machine like we have at the fire house to decontaminate your gear as it had been exposed. I just think we have gone over board on lead does anybody have any idea how many lead water services are still being used in the city of cincinnati today?? Those people are not dying off and they drink that water daily (I know not disturbed, no particulate matter, petina on lead) just saying.
Ok I will stop with lead was part of plumbing until about 1980 and plumbers have saved more lives than doctors with "clean drinking water" (don't believe me look it up) so we saved all those lives and used lead!! Go figure