Have a look at my first boolits

[RodneyUSAF]

Well here is my first attempt. I never got it right, and I was thinking this would be the place to get advise. Why do my boolits have cracks in them? I poured with ladle, and I don't have a thermometer yet. Wish I knew what the temp was.

[nicholst55]

I'd say that your alloy isn't hot enough. What temp are you running it at now? If you don't have a lead thermometer, you really do need to buy one.

[gray wolf]

Wish I knew what the temp was

Wish no more---it's to cold, and theres a good chance your mold was to cold also.
But there is more to it. Please tell us.
What metal?
Mold pre heat?
How many holes in the mold?
How far away was the ladle from the mold?
What kind of pot?
Hang in help is on the way, This board will not let you down.

[wilddog45]

I would clean the mold with brake cleaner and then after it dries, smoke the cavities with a match. Then get the melt up to about 750-800 and pour a few and return them to the melt to heat up the mold. After a while you should be casting good boolits.

[RodneyUSAF]

I'm a little embarrassed to even tell you guys my current setup. It’s not fancy and a little ghetto.

Stainless steel 2 qt kitchen pot over gas grill burner
Stainless steel kitchen ladle bent for pouring
junkyard lead roofing flange melted and fluxed
Lee TL .452 230grn RN double cavity

I held the ladle as close as I could to the mold, but since it’s not the right thing to use, I would guess that the drop was about ¾ of an inch to the sprue plate.

I have a lee 10lb pot on the way, but since I have the day off, I thought I would give the grill a try.

So cracks = too cold?

[qajaq59]

I'm a little embarrassed to even tell you guys my current setup. It’s not fancy and a little ghetto.First off, don't be embarrassed. You work with what you have and eventually you get good at it. It does look like the mold might be dirty and the temps on the melt and mold are both low. Clean up the mold and turn up the gas. And sit the mold up on the pot so it'll heat up better. And since you can toss the bad ones back in the pot they aren't much of a problem. It'll be a bit harder with that rig but it'll do till you can get some better stuff. Your lead might need some tin as well so if you can get some solder to toss in with it that may help. Hopefully there's no zinc in there messi things up?

[gray wolf]

Now theres a man I like!!!
Tells the truth, I am happy to know someone that wants to cast that bad,
A big Hooo/Raaaa for you.
Yes I would say that you are a little equipment challenged,but way ahead on enthusiasm.
I think if the bad guys were at the wire some of the boys here could get us bullets with stuff from the kitchen. But it might be a little hard for a first time caster.
But I will say you got some bullets there.You will do fine with a little upgrade.

[223tenx]

Might try adding a little Tin to your alloy too, it helps with fillout. Roof flashing is almost pure lead.

[wiljen]

Might also be worth a try to clean the mold thoroughly. I have a few that until boiled clean would never cast a decent boolit. Get the temp up and get the junk out of the mold then you should be good.

[johnvid]

My first boolits on my first attempt looked just like yours. After about a dozen or so they looked much better. By the time I cast about 50 they looked good. I cast about 200 that first day.
How many did you cast on your first attempt?

[qajaq59]

Now theres a man I like!!!
Tells the truth, I am happy to know someone that wants to cast that bad,
A big Hooo/Raaaa for you. Boy, I'll say.......

[RayinNH]

Others here have given you the answers. Clean and more heat. Your roof flashing is considered pure lead, and will require more heat than WW metal or some other alloy for good fillout. Shiny boolits are pretty but frosty boolits are easy.

As to the thermometer, get one if you feel the need. I've been casting since the early 70's and have never used one or plan to buy one...Ray

[RodneyUSAF]

I stopped at 40. The last didn't seem much better than the first. Is boiling a mold as simple as it sounds? I will crank up the heat, and clean the mold with some brake cleaner tomorrow when I give it another go.

I have some plumbing solder, what's a good solder/lead ratio for 45acp/850 fps?

Thanks for all the words of encouragement. I have several months left here in England, and thought I would spend my time wisely by casting boolits. Even though it wasn't a complete success, it was really fun!

[Rockchucker]

I think you're doing great and would guess that you're mold needs a good cleaning and turn the heat up some. I got a lyman HP mould in yesterday and couldn't wait to try it out, I did a quick spray with brake cleaner and poured a few boolits that looked about like yours and expected it to also. Well today it gets a proper cleaning and a lap job to boot. Hollow Point boolits are gonna be a learning experience for me also. Keep up the good work it's very addictive.

[HeavyMetal]

A couple tips to help heat the mold: dip a corner of the mold in to the melt until the lead won't stick to it.

Then dip the sprue plate, closed position of course, into the melt until the lead doesn't stick to it.

Now pour! I will also suggest that you don't fill your pot completely full, less alloy is easier to heat. Depending on what the Tin content of your solder is will dictate how much you can add to the lead you have.

If you can lay your hands on some clip on type wheel weights mix 50/50 and then add 2% tin, this will be a much easier alloy to pour for a newbie.

[Marcus5aurelius]

The mold is too cold, as advised above dip the corner of the mold into the liquid lead for a few seconds and it should solve the problem. Don't get nervous when this happens at the beginning, because as you repeatedly pour it should heat the inside of the mold and it will eventually smooth out. Good start

[RodneyUSAF]

I can scratch grooves into the boolits I casted with my fingernail. Way too soft from what I've read and you guys have said. I'll add some solder to the pot and see what that does. I'll clean the mold too.

[KYCaster]

You're getting some good advice. Your roof flashing is hard to cast without wrinkles and more heat will definitely help. Adding tin will help also. 4 oz of 95-5 solder or 8 oz of 50-50 in 20 lbs of lead will be close to 2%.

Without experience or a thermometer it's hard to judge the temp of your melt. You can get a rough idea of your temp by dropping a pea sized lump of candle wax in the melt. If it just melts and smokes you're probably too cold. If it ignites you're probably hot enough or maybe a bit too hot. Your gas flame may ignite it so get the pot up to temp, turn of the flame, then add the wax. Try that a couple of times and you'll get a good feel for the temp.

Good luck.

Jerry

[Dale53]

1911 .45 ACP pistols require harder bullets than your soft lead. I use WW's+2% tin (the tin hardens the bullets slightly but the real utility is that it greatly helps fill out). Get some WW's.

Clean the mould again, and run your metal at 750 degrees. This allow your mould to run about 450 degrees which will greatly help to eliminate the wrinkles.

1911 .45's have shallow grooves that require harder metal for accuracy and freedom from leading. That is why I suggest WW's+2% tin (solder is fine for a tin source).

FWIW
Dale53

[daschnoz]

My 1st boolits looked like that too. Since they were the first ones out of the mold, I figured it was a temperature thing. I put them to the side. Then, when good looking boolits started coming out of the mold, my suspicion was confirmed. I added them back into the melt pot with the next group of ingots. That's the nice thing about this part of the hobby - if they're not right, you get as many do-overs as you want.

[RodneyUSAF]

I'm on the WW hunt now. I'm interested to find out if it's easier to find them in a gunless country such as England. I'll keep you posted. My impatience did get best of me, so I went ahead and bought some WW ingots on ebay. Thanks for all the great advice. I'll be casting some good ones soon.

[Recluse]

I'm a little embarrassed to even tell you guys my current setup. It’s not fancy and a little ghetto.

No need. And it doesn't sound a lot different than me and a buddy's first set up back in my Air Force days thirty-plus years ago.

I have that Lee mold and I will tell you that it needs two things to cast good boolits:

1. MUST be very clean and free of any solvents, oils, etc.

2. Must be run hot--mold and alloy. I run my alloy at around 850F for this boolit.

When you get it down, it will cast a very good boolit that loads, feeds and shoots like a dream. But you might thank AFR 35-10 for short hair, because it can also have you pulling your hair out by the bundle.

Clean mold, hot alloy and up to temp mold. And, since it is a tumble-lube boolit, this is definitely a boolit/mold combo that can benefit from some slight frosting.

:coffee:

[prs]

Pure lead is a bit more difficult. Heat is your friend. I clean molds with automatic dishwasher detergent and rinse with cold water. I smoke the cavities with plane wood splint or carbide lamp soot. I use candle wax as flux and when the near pure lead metal is up to temp for casting, a pinch of candle wax or bees wax will flame off. I pour several waste runs through the mold quickly before keeping the boolits, this to heat the mold up to temp.

prs

[RodneyUSAF]

No need. And it doesn't sound a lot different than me and a buddy's first set up back in my Air Force days thirty-plus years ago.

I have that Lee mold and I will tell you that it needs two things to cast good boolits:

1. MUST be very clean and free of any solvents, oils, etc.

2. Must be run hot--mold and alloy. I run my alloy at around 850F for this boolit.

When you get it down, it will cast a very good boolit that loads, feeds and shoots like a dream. But you might thank AFR 35-10 for short hair, because it can also have you pulling your hair out by the bundle.

Clean mold, hot alloy and up to temp mold. And, since it is a tumble-lube boolit, this is definitely a boolit/mold combo that can benefit from some slight frosting.

:coffee:

Cool, some mold specific advice. I didn't clean the mold at all when it came out of the box, but it looked really clean. That's probably half my problem.

If you want an up-to-date dress and appearance reg, look at AFI 36-2903. :-o

[Recluse]

Cool, some mold specific advice. I didn't clean the mold at all when it came out of the box, but it looked really clean. That's probably half my problem.

Yep. Some folks boil the mold in water with a small dash of dishwashing detergent, other spray the molds down with brake cleaner (not carb cleaner as it will leave a residue) but they also make sure they're DAMNED CAREFUL about cleaning any residue off BEFORE heating the mold. Brake cleaner and high Farenheit temps can result in a deadly toxic gas that will do you so fast you won't know what killed you.

I used to be a brake cleaner guy until I read the articles someone posted. Scared the hell out of me. I now boil or use acetone or paint thinner, and then finish off rinsing with cheap drugstore isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol).

Even with all that, you'll still need to cast and drop forty to sixty boolits to get everything going well.

Lee-menting is a very good idea for this mold. Check it out in the stickies in Molds. . . Maintenance & Design. I Lee-ment every single Lee mold I buy, no exception, and I've had no problems with the molds.


If you want an up-to-date dress and appearance reg, look at AFI 36-2903. :-o

Holy cow. I looked at the PDF and saw it was over 130 pages. Scrolled through some of it and got disgusted. Typical Pentagon/Command candyass ground-pounder bravo-sierra.

Back in my day, 35-10 was covered in about 20 pages and it was even included in our little manual they issued you on the first day of BMTS--at least they did in the 3708th and 3723rd BMTS squadrons. We were the "men only" barracks. The other side of Lackland had all the girls. We got lots of extra saltpeter in our eggs and soups back in those days.

And by the way, please accept my gratitude and respect for your service.

:coffee:

[RodneyUSAF]

I think a man could start reading every Air Force Instruction at the beginning of a 20yr career and never finish them all. 20 pages would be a Awsome! The saltpeter was always rumored to have been added to the water when I went through too. I for one believe it was true!

Would Lee-menting be necessary if mine are dropping out fine and coming out the correct diameter?

Thanks for the brake cleaner residue information. I had no idea. Thank you for your service as well.

[Recluse]

Would Lee-menting be necessary if mine are dropping out fine and coming out the correct diameter?

Thanks for the brake cleaner residue information. I had no idea. Thank you for your service as well.

My rule is, "If it's not broken, don't fix it."

If you clean the mold, adjust your temps and alloy mix and begin dropping boolits with consistent fillout and at the correct diameter, don't mess with it.

By the way, is this a two-cavity or six-cavity mold?

:coffee:

[RodneyUSAF]

Two cavity. Thought I should start out with that, get the hang of it, then go to the gang mold.

[ghh3rd]

The saltpeter was always rumored to have been added to the water when I went through too.
My parents were both in the miliatry in the 40's. They used to add salt peter to the food to .... well, help control shrinkage :wink:

The catch phrase at the Mess Hall was "pass the salt, Peter".

[runfiverun]

now that we have fixed his mold problem,lets fix his alloy issue.
try 30 lbs of your lead to one lb tin content of whatever you can find.
now after you try about 50 or so of these look at your bbl and ask more q's or keep on going.

[RodneyUSAF]

now that we have fixed his mold problem,lets fix his alloy issue.
try 30 lbs of your lead to one lb tin content of whatever you can find.
now after you try about 50 or so of these look at your bbl and ask more q's or keep on going.

I am boiling the mold now, and I will mix 1/3 lb of tin to the 10 pounds of pure lead I have now. I am hoping to get some good casts tomorrow. :cbpour:

[Echo]

Rod, be aware that 3% tin is sufficient. It will do everything that a greater percentage will do. I imagine some will disagree with me on this, but the main purpose of adding tin is to reduce the surface tension of the melt, so the boolits will have square corners where the mold has square corners.
And thank you for your service.

[rob45]

You have been given sound advice in this thread.

I noticed you are using nearly pure lead. Dale53 and others gave some good advice about trying to harden your alloy by switching to WW, and others have mentioned the use of solder with your lead.

If you're using clip WW, a minor amount of tin helps to aid mold fillout. Antimony is considerably more effective in hardening properties, and that is why WW is preferred. When using clip WW, very little (if any) tin is needed.
If for some reason you're limited to using more pure sources of lead containing very little to no antimony (such as your flashing), then you're going to need a lot of tin.
For your 45ACP, some sort of WW alloy is best. But given your current location, wheel weights may or may not be accessible. If you do have access to WW, be sure to get the clip-on weights, as the stick-on weights are considerably softer and will put you in the same situation as you are in now using the roof flashing.

If WW are not available to you locally, it is possible to have them shipped to you, but it could be cost-prohibitive if shipping is involved. Some people have more ready access to solder over WW, so it depends on your current circumstances.

If solder is more readily available to you than WW, another option is to create 10:1 alloy. This is ten parts of lead to one part of tin (or if you want to know percentages, 9% Sn and 91% Pb).
The 10:1 alloy is the standard which Lee uses to size their molds, and that alloy will also be hard enough for your application- as a matter of fact, it will be very close to clip WW in hardness.

The lead/tin alloys are expensive due to the higher tin content, but as I mentioned above, it may be possible for you to access solder more economically than WW. At any rate, either one should still be more economical than buying bullets.

Here are some easy 10:1 recipes for your roofing lead and solder. The percentages in some of these recipes may or may not be exact, but that doesn't matter because they're close enough as to be indistinguishable. As with the wheel weights, I do not know your accessibility to the various solders, so I will also state common applications and let you take it from there.
Remember, these recipes apply only to soft/pure lead and solder; do not waste your time/money on the solder if you have clip WW.

Sn99
Nearly pure tin solder, this is also the most expensive and difficult to access. Used in a variety of industries. Use this as if it were pure tin.
For 10:1 alloy, add 1# of this to 10# of your roof flashing.

63/37, 60/40
Most commonly used in the electronics industry, but elsewhere as well.
Take 1.75# of this and add to 9# of your roof flashing.

50/50, 40/60
Most commonly seen in radiator shops, and still used for some plumbing applications.
Use 2# of this for every 9# of lead.

30/70, Sn23
These are more rare, and they are most commonly seen in body shops.
If using these, take 3# of this and add it to 5# of your flashing.

95/5
This is a lead-free solder; the composition is 95% tin (Sn) and 5% antimony (Sb).
Use this as pure tin. This solder is fast becoming the most easily available in hardware stores, etc., and is fast becoming the most used in the plumbing industry. This is an excellent solder to use because it introduces a minor amount of antimony, which really helps.
Add 1# of this to 10# of your flashing.


I'm not advocating 10:1 per se; I am merely saying that it is an alternative if access to WW is either impossible or very costly. Whichever you use (WW or 10:1), you're going to need one of the two for best results in your 45ACP.

The addition of either tin or antimony (or both) to your lead will lower the melting point, which lowers casting temps. But keep in mind that you're using an aluminum mold, which disperses heat more quickly. Also, you're using an open-faced ladle that allows considerable heat loss.
So your primary consideration, aside from the proper alloy for your application, is heat management. Part of this is your alloy being run hot, and part of it is your technique.

Keep your mold preheated while the lead is melting (I do not recommend placing over open flame). Keep the ladle in the pot, and whenever you get your 10# casting pot keep the mold on the rim. For now the best suggestions are already given on dipping the mold in the pot before use.

Cadence and rhythm. Keep up your pace. Once you start casting, keep casting. Don't stop to inspect rejects, just keep casting. The goal is to keep the mold and ladle hot, and anytime the mold is open or empty or the ladle is not holding lead, things start to cool down. So keep up the pace and soon the rejects turn into a pile of good bullets.

With a ladle, you'll need to flux the oxides back in on a regular basis as the dross accumulates. How often you need to do this may vary, but you'll know when it's time. Do everything you can to keep the ladle and mold hot while you do this. Keep the ladle in the pot and keep the mold closed. If your pot is not conducive to resting the mold on it, then keeping the last cast in the mold while fluxing seems to help somewhat.
If your 10# pot on the way is a bottom pour, you will probably only need to flux once and leave the surface alone (until it's time to add more lead), thereby considerably speeding up the entire process and enhancing temperature control.

BTW, you mentioned "cracking". In my experience, this is usually an indication of dumping the bullets before they're completely solidified. So play around with that, too.

Thank you for your service, and again, WELCOME.
Good Luck.

[AviatorTroy]

I have that mold too, and I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying, more heat. Those molds head up fast so usually I set it on top of the casting pot when I first turn it on and when the lead is molten the mold is also about perfect. Smoking the mold helps too. Nice thick black layer of soot all over the inside.

Also if you have ANY oil or wax anywhere near the cavity that will also make them come out like those picts.

BTW I casted for ten years for muzzeloaders with a Coleman stove and an old cast iron frying pan out on the picnic table..... Whatever works!

[canyon-ghost]

Cadence and rhythm. Keep up your pace. Once you start casting, keep casting. Don't stop to inspect rejects, just keep casting. The goal is to keep the mold and ladle hot, and anytime the mold is open or empty or the ladle is not holding lead, things start to cool down. So keep up the pace and soon the rejects turn into a pile of good bullets

Good advice, keep the mold closed as much as possible so it doesn't cool. I use all 2 cavity molds and a small Lyman setup.

[mcdonl]

Rodney, I am just getting geared up. If my first boolits look as good as yours I will be tickled pink!!

[RayinNH]

You might also try sticking your tongue out the corner of your mouth just a bit.:kidding:...Ray

[qajaq59]

Nice thick black layer of soot all over the inside. Try to use wooden matches for the soot as opposed to a candle.

[kbstenberg]

Rodney just a thought. When you have 10 or 20 bullets molded. If your getting the folds in the bullet surface. Turn the heat source up. Wait a while for the lead to heat more (keeping the mold hot in the melt). try casting some more. Keep increasing heat till the bullets pass the shine stage an start getting a frosty surface. That would be the point to start casting for usable bullets.
All the time you are increasing the temp. keep adding the bullets back that aren't good enough to shoot.
When you do get to the point of casting good bullets. Remember that the speed you cast at will determine the mold temp. If you are casting too fast the bullets will get increasingly frosty. If you are casting too slow the mold will cool an the bullets will go from lite frost to shinny
Kevin
Ps welcome to the brotherhood of the silver-stream

[Ben-WSU]

My first attempt resulted in 40 bullets looking like that. Some of the advice I got on this forum was:
*get the mold hotter
*cast faster to keep mold at temp
*practice so that you can cast fast

I started using an aluminum pie pan to catch the sprues, which kept me going fast because I didn't slow to drop the sprue back in the pot.

I cast until the bullets start to get frosted. Doesn't look as pretty, but the mold drops them real easy when they are hot.

I may have also re-cleaned the mold after that first casting attempt.

[dangerranger]

Rodney, I use the same mould, and mostly the same methods. as others have said add heat. one of my sons spent a couple of years at croughton in the 80s. he couldnt wait to get back to the land of round door knobs. now hed like to go back! DR

[RodneyUSAF]

Thanks Rob, that is a VERY informative response, and that goes for the rest of you too. I can't think of any other questions to ask! The mold boil went well. I boiled it with some dishwashing detergent mixed in, then scrubbed it with a toothbrush and some rubbing alcohol, and I finished up with an alcohol rinse. I'll smoke it again before I cast. Wow, what a great forum!

[RodneyUSAF]

Rodney, I use the same mould, and mostly the same methods. as others have said add heat. one of my sons spent a couple of years at croughton in the 80s. he couldnt wait to get back to the land of round door knobs. now hed like to go back! DR

"Land of the round door knobs" I've never heard that one before, but it makes sense. I'll be happy for a light switch that doesn't (a)click when it is switched and (b) goes up for on and down for off! Tell you son that Coughton isn't the place he left. There's not a small base feel to it anymore.

[RodneyUSAF]

Alright, finally some decent boolits. I cleaned the mold as described, and I heated it in the melt until the lead wouldn't stick anymore. Worked great! It was a chore keeping the mold hot enough for the lead to fill out. I had to reheat the mold in the lead about every 10th cast. These are still pure lead because I couldn't fine the solder I thought I had. I am hoping that the WW alloy will fill out without having to reheat. With some better equipment, this will be a piece of cake. Thanks!

[qajaq59]

Well good. You ended up with some decent bullets, we got a chance to meet you, and everyone found out that you can cast bullets without $750.00 worth of equipment. A winner all around I'd say!

[Recluse]

Alright, finally some decent boolits.

Much better.

Don't know if you need to size them or if you have the Lee push-through sizer (.452). If the boolits are pure lead, not sure I'd worry all that much about sizing them at this stage. Once you begin getting some WW in there, I'd size them.

Next step is to lube them. This method works like a champ on this boolit. In fact, it was this exact boolit and the TL158SWC that had me working and refining this process. Process wasn't original and I shameless borrowed ideas and experiences from others here. Just kinda put it together in a simpler, easier to use form.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

Enjoy and shoot well.

:coffee:

[dangerranger]

"Land of the round door knobs" I've never heard that one before, but it makes sense. I'll be happy for a light switch that doesn't (a)click when it is switched and (b) goes up for on and down for off! Tell you son that Coughton isn't the place he left. There's not a small base feel to it anymore.


Hes still in the service, but Croughton is still the only duty station hes had where sheep herding experiance was required. the new boolits look great. I dont have to size mine I just tumble lube and load. DR

[HeavyMetal]

Looking much better!

Once you find some tin and wheel weights, check the motor pool I'll bet some one thier shoots, you'll find that you won't need as much heat to get the alloy to "flow" and life will be better.

I'd also be willing to bet that an air base has an "aviaonic's" shop. That means electronic repair and that means solder!

I think some "net working" is the order of the day!

[RodneyUSAF]

Looking much better!

Once you find some tin and wheel weights, check the motor pool I'll bet some one thier shoots, you'll find that you won't need as much heat to get the alloy to "flow" and life will be better.

I'd also be willing to bet that an air base has an "aviaonic's" shop. That means electronic repair and that means solder!

I think some "net working" is the order of the day!

You know, I didn't think of that. We don't have planes at Croughton, but we do have a motorpool. I will ask them, and I'm sure they will have some. I even have a few buddies down there! Thanks for the tip.

[RodneyUSAF]

Much better.

Don't know if you need to size them or if you have the Lee push-through sizer (.452). If the boolits are pure lead, not sure I'd worry all that much about sizing them at this stage. Once you begin getting some WW in there, I'd size them.

Next step is to lube them. This method works like a champ on this boolit. In fact, it was this exact boolit and the TL158SWC that had me working and refining this process. Process wasn't original and I shameless borrowed ideas and experiences from others here. Just kinda put it together in a simpler, easier to use form.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

Enjoy and shoot well.

:coffee:

I will have to check one of the other bases around here for some johnson's wax, the local supermarkets nor the commisary carry it. Your lube looks super simple. great tutorial! I'm not sure on the local laws on the "reloading press" required for the LEE sizing suff. I might have to wait until my return to the US for sizing.... Does resizing tumble lube boolits smear the microbands?

[dangerranger]

Mine have shot really well as cast. Im using the same mould. I shoot them out of colt single actions, marlin 94, and a single shot rifle. DR

[mdi]

A good place for casting info is Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook...