Load Data for 170grCB 30-30

[DeadWood]

I have been taking in alot of info. over the last year since first coming here. Without a doubt have forgotten more than i will remember (need to re-read X3). Have purchased the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and Joe B. CD. Lots of info in there and still going through it!! Ready to come back to my original reason for posting!! (NOT original question :-D just have more now)

Wanting to handload for my Win. 94 30-30. I have 748 for powder and Oregon Trails laser cast CB W/ GC.

I believe i have read some use between 25-27gr of 748 with this/similiar CB. I learned one shouldn't get leading if keeping under 1600FPS. With the Lyman manual Sug. starting grains of 24.8 and Max. of 35grs. Pros and Cons of pushing this CB faster??

Would like suggestion/options on how you would work up this load?

I only have 200 projectiles and didn't want to work up in .5gr increments, would take forever and i think would be a waste other than me getting practice.

Would consider this load for whitetail hunting purposes only. I would say 75-100yd shoot max. distance and even then would be a timber gun only so lets keep it real at 75yds.

When working this load up should i place the paper at 75yds since thats my max? I have read many threads on different methods of working up a load, and have succesfully (to my satisfaction) done this. No chrony so it may not count

[jlchucker]

Deadwood, I've loaded countless 170 gr cast bullets for my 30-30's. Since you have the Lyman book, look and see the spread for the various powders listed for their 170 and 173 gr gascheck bullets. Then, I'd start with the low-end load, and see how it groups. 3 shot groups. Then, I'd probably go up in 1 grain increments to see if the groups got better or worse, carefully checking for signs of high pressure as I went. You can try fractional increments later on, for refinement, if you choose. But go for good groups and forget about how fast you think you can push the bullet! Even at the low end velocities, if that's where your best group ends up, it will NOT bounce off a whitetail at the ranges you're talking about, or even further. Shot placement is far more important than velocity for the sake of velocity! You've got another variable at play here, though. You didn't say what diameter your store-bought boolets are. Each rifle is different when it comes to cast boolets, and for best results, the boolets should be correctly sized for your gun. I've been handloading since 1972 and have yet to buy a chrony. Place your paper target at 50 yd for starters, then when you get a good group at that distance, try targets at a longer range. Write down your loads and groups as you go, for future reference as to what's good or bad. By the way--748 is the powder I started with--and I still use it, both for 30-30 and 35 Remington--cast as well as condom bullets. Other good ones are 3031 and AA5744. Good luck.

[6pt-sika]

Pretty much the ONLY powders I have used for cast bullets in the 30-30 are SR4759 and XMP5744 .

For a 170 grain cast GC bullet in a 30-30 I would start with 20 grains of XMP5744 and work up to 22 grains max !

My silhouette load in the 30-30 was the RD 311-165GC with 22 grains of XMP5744 and a CCI200 primer .

[6pt-sika]

If I were you and only had 200 bullets to work with I would load 6 rounds with 20 grains XMP5744 , 6 with 21 grains and 6 more with 22 grains .

Then I would shoot two 3 shot groups of each at 50 yards .

Whichever looked best I would load nine more and try then at either the 75 yards you say or 100 yards . If they shot as well as what I was looking for I would be done .

With open sights you should expect to get 3 in 2.5" at 100 yards relatively easily . With a scope that may or may not improve .

But anyway I think I could get very satisfied with 40 bullets or less . Leaving me with 160 or so bullets for hunting etc [smilie=1:

[Don McDowell]

I load that very bullet with 18 grs of 5744, and have no trouble ringing a 16x12 gong at 270 yds.

[6pt-sika]

I load that very bullet with 18 grs of 5744, and have no trouble ringing a 16x12 gong at 270 yds.

I believe it if you are making mention of the RD 311-165GC bullet !

I've put well over a 1000 of those bullets downrange at paper targets and silhouettes !
As well as a few at deer looking critters !

[Don McDowell]

No sir just the boring ol Oregon trail lazer cast.
Also have a 311291 that's been modified to a flatbase that comes out about 180 grs that shoots the same charge of 5744 to the same good effect thru my winchesters.

[DeadWood]

bullets are .309. i had purchased last year, buy one get one free, knew nothing about CB when i got them just it was a good deal. I really should be loading .310-.311 CB's, but will start my adventures with these for hunting. Had just went back to a comment in Cast Bullets for Beginner & Expert" CD from Joe Brennan

"Reasonable accuracy"
6.1
"keep velocity under 1600fps in rifles and accuracy isn't hard to find"

With 25grs of Win748 the Lyman's manual says it should be right around here so will try and work up slow.

Will be curious if i get leading with the smaller boolit than i need or accuracy.

[6pt-sika]

No sir just the boring ol Oregon trail lazer cast.
Also have a 311291 that's been modified to a flatbase that comes out about 180 grs that shoots the same charge of 5744 to the same good effect thru my winchesters.


I've found 5744 to be a great cast bullet powder in a BROAD range of lever action calibers !
Used it in a 25-36 Marlin , 32-40 , 32 Special , 30-30 , 356 WIN , 375 WIN , 33 WCF , 38-56 , 38-55 , 40-65 , 40-82 , 444 and 45-70 . And all of them got adequate accuracy for deer hunting ;)

[NickSS]

I shoot a lot of cast 170 and 173 gr bullets through my 30-30s Most are at targets or steel silhouettes and most of my shooting is at 100 and 200 yards. I have used Unique, Red Dot, AA 5744, IMR 4198, H225, Win 748, IMR 3031 and probably several other powders in the 30-30 and have gotten good accurate loads with all of them. My most shot load recently is a Lyman 311041 sized to .312" over 18 gr of IMR 4198. This load is super accurate in three different rifles and works well for knoking steel silhouettes over at 200 yards. Though it is far from a max load I have shot several coyotes with it and would not hesitate to shoot a deer with it either as it penetrates well on thin skin game.

[Tony65x55]

I use 30 grains of IMR 3031 under a 170 FN GC sized .309. It's a full power load and devastating on deer, producing about 2100 fps and 2" groups at 100 yards. It's a hunting load, plain and simple.

748 is a very good powder and you should have no problem achieving those speeds with it. 32 grains of 748 is the max load listed but don't start there. Start at 27 and go up in one grain increments, watching for any pressure signs. Somewhere between 27 and 32 will be a load that produces acceptable hunting accuracy.

[Tom308]

I've been loading the load Junior liked to talk about. That's the Lee dipper 2.2 of imr 4895 with my cast boolits. I am satisfied with this load. It gets me about 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at 50 yards. I shoot it in a single shot rifle and it may not be safe in yours. Use at YOUR own risk. I've weighed the charge and get a fairly consistent weight of 30.5 grains. I don't recall the velocity. I've been casting the Lee c309-170f and the Ranch Dog tlc165f. Both these cast boolit loads work well for me. I hope they will work for you. Start low and work up to safe levels. I never recommend my loads for anyone else. All guns are different.

[jlchucker]

I use 30 grains of IMR 3031 under a 170 FN GC sized .309. It's a full power load and devastating on deer, producing about 2100 fps and 2" groups at 100 yards. It's a hunting load, plain and simple.

748 is a very good powder and you should have no problem achieving those speeds with it. 32 grains of 748 is the max load listed but don't start there. Start at 27 and go up in one grain increments, watching for any pressure signs. Somewhere between 27 and 32 will be a load that produces acceptable hunting accuracy.

Tony, I agree 100 percent with your post. What you've said has worked for me for years, in lots of leverguns. For a very long time the only two sizers that I had were .308 and .309, and I guess I used the .309's the most (Lyman). I always got pretty good results. In the rifles I have now, I pretty much stick to .309. I had a Marlin, and it preferred .310---but that may be nit-picking on my part, and not enough to make a difference while deer hunting in the ranges that Deadwood describes. Like others have mentioned though--in recent years, and after reading Mike Venturino's writings, I tried AA5744 and was VERY pleasantly surprised.

[DeadWood]

Guess i'll be picking up some new powders this month. Will be looking at AA5744 and 3031 for sure.

[6pt-sika]

after reading Mike Venturino's writings, I tried AA5744 and was VERY pleasantly surprised.

That was the same thing that got me started on 5744 :bigsmyl2:

[DeadWood]

That was the same thing that got me started on 5744 :bigsmyl2:

Were are you finding the article your referring to? did a search and one site wouldn't let me in and the others didn't really say to much from this author.

[6pt-sika]

Were are you finding the article your referring to? did a search and one site wouldn't let me in and the others didn't really say to much from this author.

Venturino wrote a book called ,Leverguns of the old West .
He has loading data for about every cartridge known to man that was chambered in a Winchester or Marlin back in the day !

It's a pretty neat paper back book for about $20-25 . His loads are a bit lighter but they give you an excellent starting point !

[softpoint]

My Marlin XLR 30/30 likes WW760-H414 with the RCBS 180 fpgc.

[Butler Ford]

Deadwood, your choice of powder is fine. Actually it's one of the better, good velocity with acceptable pressures and it meters well. I push mine a little hard sometimes but I just want to see what it will do. The Lyman loads should be fine with that bullet even on up toward the max so just load'em for accuracy. No need to trade powder, what you have works well.


I only have 200 projectiles and didn't want to work up in .5gr increments, would take forever and i think would be a waste other than me getting practice.


Hard to tell with one sentence but what I would question is wether or not you'd just be better off shooting factory?? No harm meant, just seems that you're not too much into the experimenting that makes casting/reloading fun?

BF

[jlchucker]

Venturino wrote a book called ,Leverguns of the old West .
He has loading data for about every cartridge known to man that was chambered in a Winchester or Marlin back in the day !

It's a pretty neat paper back book for about $20-25 . His loads are a bit lighter but they give you an excellent starting point !

That's the book that got me to try AA5744 too. I've tried it in not only 30-30, but 45-70 as well. There's something weird I notice, though. Load for load, if you compare posted velocities for the likes of something like RL7, 3031, or 748, then fire a group loaded with 5744 for comparison at a given distance, the groups will end up being very close in terms of where all the holes in the target are. But the 5744 load you try will give you less recoil. It's noticeable in 45-70 especially--never did figure out why. I guess it's just a light kicker.

[jlchucker]

Mike Venturingo has been a poster on this website. He's been feeling poorly lately, but recent posts indicate he's on the mend.

[Dannix]

How does AA5744 measure in a Uniflow (small cylinder if it matters)?

Loading the 30-30 will be my first foray into rifle loading, and I'd rather not start with a less newbie friendly powder.

[Don McDowell]

5744 is a short extruded powder. So if you've thrown any of those thru your measure it'll be about the same.
I haven't had any problems with it in either my rcbs uniflow or lee perfect measures.

[pls1911]

Reloader - 7 , 26-28 grains behind any 160-185 grain bullet gives minute of beveridge can accuracy at 80 yards with open sights from 40's vintage Marlins and Winnies.

Works great in 45-70, .223, .308 and others too.

I've simplified my bench, pretty much reducing my "go to" powders to Unique and Reloader 7.

However, it will be awhile working though the stock of Clays, 3031, Surplus BW-36 ... about 60 pounds....

[pls1911]

I need to get on this site more often ...
Revisiting my note above and the entire message stream, 6pt Sika, Tony, chucker and others have given great advice.... heed it and save yourself some time.
For myself, as stated above I've been trying to reduce my powder stash from a preferred dozen or two to a bare minimum for rifles, shotguns and pistols, so I could dispense with the remote powder magazine under the outhouse.
To that end, Reloader 7 has come up as a prime preference for long guns of 30-30, 308, 7mmTCU, .223, and 45/70 for just about all loads. It's accurate, flexible, and burns clean. It may not be the best for peculiar applications, but for rabbits, rats, pigs, deer, elk, goats, and all sorts of steel critters, just fun bustin'n rocks, it's good enough.
Try 26 grains RL-7 under a .311 sized heat treated/hardened Ranch Dog 165, Lyman 31141 or the similar SEACO... you'll be glad you did. This combination pokes 40 cal sized holes in 1/4" steel base plate at 80 yards and works for me in Marlins from 1893's through 36's and 336's.... even in a piece of old iron pipe I bought mail order from 6pt...!! (It shoots better in North Texas anyway)
If you really get boooooolit bit, and want to vary your trials drop me a note, and I'll work up a care package of slugs for you.