2400 and the 45 Colt?

[lawboy]

Is anyone loading 300-grain bullets in the 45 Colt case over 2400 powder? I just got two lbs of it for free and I am wondering if I can make any decent loads for my 45 with it. I know I can use it for 357 loads but it seems like it might work for 45 Colt too. I'll check my manuals when I get home but ... thought someone might have first-hand experience in this area. Thanks.

[lar45]

IT depends on what gun your shooting, and the bullet length and loaded length.
For rugers or strong guns it looks like 18 gns of 2400 might be a reasonable max with a 300 going around 1250fps at 27,000 psi(from quickload guess)(compare to actual load data)

[lawboy]

Well, I will be using a Bisley Blackhawk. I hope to get a load that will do about 1150fps for hogs and steel plates at 100-200 yards. My current load is 20.0grs of W296 with a 300-grain bullet and that works fine at about 1150fps. But getting two free lbs of 2400 makes me want to work up a load with it!

[9.3X62AL]

I ran some Lee 300 grain GC boolits out of my Bisley Blackhawk atop 15.0 grains of new-series 2400, but didn't chronograph any of them. A buddy of mine and I were able to raise hell with a dinger plate at 100 yards with them offhand, so they were accurate critters. Recoil was approaching the upper end of comfortable. I would take the load hunting, for sure--probably sub-sonic, still weigh 300 grains with a wide meplat in front of that .454" shank, and won't do a deer ANY GOOD AT ALL if placed half-decently.

There are few better cast boolit powders than 2400, for both revolver and rifle loading.

[robertbank]

Did you develop any softer loads using 296 with 300 gr bullets? I also have some 2400 around here as well. I have the Beretta Stampede which is not as strong as your Blackhawks.

Take Care

Bob

[lawboy]

You know, I have not downloaded 296 for light loads, I am afraid it might just detonate on me. I am a tradionalist when it comes to downloading the big bores and I stick with Unqiue for that task. I find 6.0grs of Unique in either special or magnum brass to be absolutely satisfactory for light loads in 44 special. I use the same load for light 45 colt as well, don't stick with long colt cases as I haven't had luck using shofield brass. Regards.

[44man]

With the 300 gr and 296, you can go down to 19-19.5 gr's. I would not go lower. My most accurate load is 21.5 gr's of 296 and a fed 150 primer.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm not real keen on using the ball powders WW-296, H-110, or AA-9/WC-820 in low density loads that aren't near peak pressure ratings. 2400 and the 4227's are a lot more tractable when downloaded. Unique gets my vote, too.

[DanWalker]

I've been fiddling around with 2400 in my 45's for a few years now.
For the LEE 300 gr bullets my MAX load is 19 grains of 2400. This is an absolute max for me and I WILL NOT push any farther. I've gone to 20 grains in my win 94 and my blackhawk, but recoil is nasty in both. It sheared the magazine tube screw off on my win 94, and makes my hands throb after just 3 shots in my blackhawk. This load is my moose and grizzly load. It's only loaded when we'll be camping in areas where running into something big and nasty is a possibility. I have 12 rounds loaded up to this level, and haven't touched one off in 3 years. Most of my shooting with the 300 grainers and 2400 has been with 15 grains of 2400. It smacks big game animals just as hard as the hotter load does, but it doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as badly.
My all time favorite load for 45's using the 300 grain bullet is 6.5 grains of red dot. It's what's in my guns 95% of the time I have them with me. This load has proven super accurate in the 4 guns I've shot it in. I've actually killed several DOZEN prairie dogs with it, some at ranges over 50 yards. This is with a 5.5" barreled single action handgun. I also shot 3 marmots with it just yesterday. I've killed blue grouse and a boat load of cottontails with this load too. Hopefully this fall I'll put it to use on a deer or two and maybe a couple antelope.

[J Miller]

300gr LTC, 19.5 gr 2400, 1,166 fps, Win WLP primer, Data source;Alliant
Suggested starting load: 17.6 gr
From the Hodgdon Manual #26
Pressure: 30,000 CUP

I've used this load in both my OM Blackhawk .45 and my Win 94AE Trapper.
It's got a very snappy recoil from both guns. It showed pretty good accuracy potential at 25 yards, but I didn't test it at longer ranges.

Personally I think IMR 4227 or something else a bit slower would be a better choice than 2400 for this heavy of a bullet.

Joe

[JRR]

Using WC820, that is extremely close to 2400 in powder charges and a Win 94/16".

285 gr Applegate WFNGC, 17.5 gr wc820, win. LP primers = 1380 fps

290 gr Mount Mould LFPGC, 17.5 gr wc820, win. LP primers = 1360 fps

Good sturdy crimp on both. Don't use mag primers.

You should expect similar results with 2400.

The MM bullet is extremely accurate with this load.

For the 300 gr, drop the charge approx 1 gr.

Jeff

[longhorn]

+1 on the 6.5gr of red dot load-very accurate in several of my .45's. I would suggest extreme caution with old 2400 load data--say, from the 1970's. My unshakeable belief is that the 2400 we buy now is substantially faster than that we used in the '70's.

[StarMetal]

longhorn,

It's not your belief sir, it's a fact. The newer 2400 is definately faster burning. I not only noticed it, but some gun wriiters have mentioned it too and in particular don't start off with the old famous Elmer Keith 44mag load of 22 grs of 2400 with a 240 cast bullet. That's too hot for today's 2400 powder. Although I tried that in a 629 Smith, and it shot it fine, it's hot and not necessary to subject the revolver to that level of punishment.

Joe

[DEVERS454]

14-16gr of 2400 makes for a nice load using Lee 300gr gc bullets.

Starline brass is what I use for this, though. I have had serious case extraction issues with Winchester brass and this load.

Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8"
Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2"
Taurus Raging Bull
Winchester 94ae Trapper (REALLY good groups with the rifle and the heavier loads)

I am not a big fan of H4227 and pistols.

[StarMetal]

Devers,

I noticed you said you're not a big fan of 4227 and pistols. Well one of Hank Williams Jr's favorite 45 Colt load is 18 grs of 4227 and 255 gr lead slug. Anyways I found that for the 7.62x25 Tokarev semi-pistol round (yeah believe it or not, Deputy al was shocked) that I found a dynamite load using 4227. Tad dirty, but still a great load. Don't sell 4227 too short.

By the way, my 94 Trapper in 45 Colt shoots really great too. I use to hunt groundhogs with it in fact. Notice I call the 45 Long Colt the 45 Colt, because that is it's correct name. The Long Colt moniker only came along when that dang 45 Schofield round happen. The 45 auto round is correctly called the 45 acp.

Joe

[Poppaclutch]

Here I am, 10 years in the future, saying, Thanks, that's what I was looking for...

[Poppaclutch]

Here I am, 10 years in the future, saying, Thanks, Dan Walker, that's what I was looking for...
165118

[GooseGestapo]

When I had a 5.5" RedHawk, I used 20.0gr under the Lee 300fngc. It was the most accurate load I ever shot through it . Once got a 5-shot 1-hole group ~1.5" at 25yds.
Recoil however was vicious. Bullet over 16.5 gr will do same thing, with more tolerable recoil. My "heavy" load now through a 625 Mountain Gun is 11.0gr of LongShot under RCBS 270gr SAA SWC. Gets near 1,100fps and meets Wyoming's minimum energy. Otherwise, I use 9.2gr for for ~900fps. No Georgia whitetail or pig will stop it.

[johniv]

Ruger Blackhawk 1st year production , 4 5/8" bbl. 18.5 gr 2400, Win. or CCI primer. RCBS 270saa boolit weights about 285 gr ACWW= 1060 fps. FWIW

[DougGuy]

If you want to get into the 75% ~ 90% powerband in the .45 Colt with a heavy for caliber boolit, 2400 and LilGun are definitely two good choices of powder. Loading 296/H110 to this level is not advised as it is below published minimum starting weights.

I don't have an exact load for the 300RF in .45 Colt but I trust Dan Walker's 19.5gr as absolute max. What crimp groove did you use Dan? I would think to want to crimp into the bottom groove for the longer COA.

My .44 SBH really likes 17.0gr 2400 under the Lee 315gr RF boolit, this gives me 1180-1200fps from a 7 1/2" SBH. Pleasant to shoot, well.... Sorta.. Great hunting load, accurate.

[dubber123]

Doug, Dan will probably answer if he see it, but his last post in this thread was 10 years ago. This might be the oldest thread bought back to life here :)

[44man]

I use my load in the old Vaquero, very strong gun and would not use it in weaker.
2400 is more forgiving when downloaded some where you don't fool with 296 or H110.
2400 can get tricky if you use too much, it can spike.
I don't use 2400 much since I can't find any and what little I have left is in a Hercules can but it always worked for me. Long ago it was all we had.
4227's--NO for the .44 and I have no idea with the .45, any gun heat changes the burn. It works in the .357 Max but I steer away for larger.
I don't like Unique much either. I never liked a few drops of powder in large cases with instant pressure rises.

[44MAG#1]

"For the LEE 300 gr bullets my MAX load is 19 grains of 2400. This is an absolute max for me and I WILL NOT push any farther. I've gone to 20 grains in my win 94 and my blackhawk, but recoil is nasty in both. It sheared the magazine tube screw off on my win 94, and makes my hands throb after just 3 shots in my blackhawk. This load is my moose and grizzly load."
"Most of my shooting with the 300 grainers and 2400 has been with 15 grains of 2400. It smacks big game animals just as hard as the hotter load does, but it doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as badly."

Now just to satisfy my mind, which is always searching for little quirks, if the 15 gr load of 2400 "smacks big game just as hard as the hotter load does, but doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as bad". Why would you even carry it in Grizzly or Moose country or was this just "filler" writing or maybe just "fluff" writing just to make a point in some direction to the OP.
Kinda contradictory to me, but understandable to give the idea that firewall loads are not needed even though sometimes we use them to appease our doubts on what we think we believe.
Now do most of us really believe what we think we believe or do we just think we really believe in what we think we believe?
Or do we have doubts in our beliefs because few of us have concrete proof of what we believe to be true due to many variables involved in establishing beliefs?

[44MAG#1]

Oh well.

[dubber123]

I would guess most of us believe a more powerful load hits harder. If they really were all the same, the Brits really wasted a ton of time and effort making all those big double rifle cartridges. Now to a point, good enough is really that, "good enough". If it doesn't beat you or the gun up, and is "good enough" thats where most people end up. When in doubt, in country with bigger game than we are normally accustomed to, say Moose or large bears, I bet most people if given their druthers will gravitate towards a more powerful load, "just in case". The slower load MAY work just as well, but it's not so likely the more powerful one will work WORSE, and it MAY work better.

I bet the normal human reaction when faced with a large angry bear, is "man I wish I had a bigger gun", not "man, I'm glad I put my .22 in my pocket". Just my guess :)

[Outpost75]

+1 on the 6.5gr of red dot load-very accurate in several of my .45's. I would suggest extreme caution with old 2400 load data--say, from the 1970's. My unshakeable belief is that the 2400 we buy now is substantially faster than that we used in the '70's.

That has been my experience also, although primarily in rifles. I have found that in .44 Magnum, .303 British and .30-'06 I must back off Lyman max. loads by a full 10% as a minimum, and that the "start" loads in Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) seem to be max...

[DanWalker]

"For the LEE 300 gr bullets my MAX load is 19 grains of 2400. This is an absolute max for me and I WILL NOT push any farther. I've gone to 20 grains in my win 94 and my blackhawk, but recoil is nasty in both. It sheared the magazine tube screw off on my win 94, and makes my hands throb after just 3 shots in my blackhawk. This load is my moose and grizzly load."
"Most of my shooting with the 300 grainers and 2400 has been with 15 grains of 2400. It smacks big game animals just as hard as the hotter load does, but it doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as badly."

Now just to satisfy my mind, which is always searching for little quirks, if the 15 gr load of 2400 "smacks big game just as hard as the hotter load does, but doesn't batter me or my guns nearly as bad". Why would you even carry it in Grizzly or Moose country or was this just "filler" writing or maybe just "fluff" writing just to make a point in some direction to the OP.
Kinda contradictory to me, but understandable to give the idea that firewall loads are not needed even though sometimes we use them to appease our doubts on what we think we believe.
Now do most of us really believe what we think we believe or do we just think we really believe in what we think we believe?
Or do we have doubts in our beliefs because few of us have concrete proof of what we believe to be true due to many variables involved in establishing beliefs?



No it's not just "fluff". I load with 20 grains of 2400 because even that feels insufficient when contemplating a close encounter with an irritated grizzly or moose. Is there a specific point you were trying to make or are you just busting my ballz? I have been a member here since the days of shooters.com and I have to say it has gotten a LOT more unfriendly and seems to be getting more and more infested with confrontational jerks and self aggrandizing knowitalls over the last couple of years. That's one of the main reasons I have quit posting and rarely even lurk anymore.

[DanWalker]

If you want to get into the 75% ~ 90% powerband in the .45 Colt with a heavy for caliber boolit, 2400 and LilGun are definitely two good choices of powder. Loading 296/H110 to this level is not advised as it is below published minimum starting weights.

I don't have an exact load for the 300RF in .45 Colt but I trust Dan Walker's 19.5gr as absolute max. What crimp groove did you use Dan? I would think to want to crimp into the bottom groove for the longer COA.

My .44 SBH really likes 17.0gr 2400 under the Lee 315gr RF boolit, this gives me 1180-1200fps from a 7 1/2" SBH. Pleasant to shoot, well.... Sorta.. Great hunting load, accurate.

I crimp in the lower groove. Feeds fine in my win 94 and chambers fine in my Blackhawk.

[44MAG#1]

No it's not just "fluff". I load with 20 grains of 2400 because even that feels insufficient when contemplating a close encounter with an irritated grizzly or moose. Is there a specific point you were trying to make or are you just busting my ballz? I have been a member here since the days of shooters.com and I have to say it has gotten a LOT more unfriendly and seems to be getting more and more infested with confrontational jerks and self aggrandizing knowitalls over the last couple of years. That's one of the main reasons I have quit posting and rarely even lurk anymore.

Busting your genitalia was not my intent. Just wondering what you believe. Kinda an inconsistency if you will.

I knew what you meant but inconsistencies do exist. Just like this.
I've been fiddling around with 2400 in my 45's for a few years now.
"For the LEE 300 gr bullets my MAX load is 19 grains of 2400. This is an absolute max for me and I WILL NOT push any farther. I've gone to 20 grains in my win 94 and my blackhawk, but recoil is nasty in both. It sheared the magazine tube screw off on my win 94, and makes my hands throb after just 3 shots in my blackhawk. This load is my moose and grizzly load."

See the the capitalized words "I WILL NOT push any farther"? Then here in your last post you say you use 20 gr of 2400.
I'm sure you being a understanding person see the inconsistencies.
Not trying to bust anything but just wondering is all.

Have a great day.

[DanWalker]

Excellent point. Allow me to clarify. I won't push past 19 grains in a levergun but load 20 grains in my Blackhawk. 20 grains is too much in the Winchester. It causes the screw that retains the mag tube to fail. Screw doesn't break. Mag tube jumps out past it. These are NOT hunting loads. They are extremely uncomfortable to shoot in the Blackhawk. They are strictly for defense from the (slim) possibility of an encounter with grizzlies. As far as inconsistencies go I have no excuse, other than the DECADE that has passed since I made that post.

[44MAG#1]

DanWalker,

Thanks for clarifying that. I recently (four days ago) bought one of those molds and will be trying your 6.5 gr RD load.
Do you use a standard or mag primer with that powder? The reason I ask I I've tried some fast powder in lower charge weights with both light and heavy bullets in a 45 Colt and depending where the power lays in the case got wide velocity swings.
Of course I am probably the only idiot that will test loads over a chrony by also testing powder position in the case.
I have had wide swings even with Bullseye in the 45 Colt with standard loads and I am a BIG fan of Bullseye.
Just wondering if a mag primer will give more consistent loads and if you have tested them.

[DanWalker]

I haven't actually,"tested" them, but I have used them. Didn't see any appreciable difference in the results on target, but it was just informal shooting at rocks and stuff. The one thing I did see was the better accuracy I got at 50 yards when I switched from the 250 grain SWC's and went to the LEE 300's.

[44MAG#1]

Dan Walker,

Do you cast hard bullets (I do) or try to us a middle of the road alloy?
That bullet with such a big meplat even at modest velocities should do well.
Ive been shooting a 44 Mag SBH 45/8's with a 330 gr LBT-LFN-GC at 1225 and like it.

[DanWalker]

Mine are around 12-14 bhn. My alloy is now around 70/30 range scrap/WW's. I air cool these bullets. I have water dropped them before and they get up around 20-22bhn, but I saw no real benefit from it. It just made them harder to size.

[VICIOUS]

Good information, still, bored and feeling the need to mess around with 2400.
Never let a good thread die.

[wildcatter]

My 45 Colt Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter thrives on it with a 340 grain WFN, my go too big game load. I prefer the 250 for Whitetail and smaller game. It mat be an old thread but so is the old 45 Colt, why let either die?
252225

Remember, this is a spiky powder when you start pushing it, it works in the Ruger but would be even better in the FA 83, where this load and my custom bullet started life. I just dropped it 1/2 grain for the Ruger. Always work up slowly in any gun!
252226

[Alferd Packer]

A lot of unburned powder 2400 leaves the .45 colt .
Try 17.5 hrs of 2400 under a 255 grain KT bullet wheel weights sized .252.
The dies should have a flaring tool no larger in diameter than .448 and the crimp applied should be a .1 inch flat band around the bullet.
Using a smaller sized flaring tool on a .252 bullet and the crimp that appears on custom loaded ammo you will have all the power and recoil you can take because ALL the 2400 powder will burn instead of blowing out the barrel behind the bullet.
This was Elmer Keith's load that used the new .45 Colt cases vs the old balloon head roomier cases.
Try this load before you knock it.
Also very accurate and powerful.
It's easy to load more powder and shoot it out the barrel on the ground with the loss in compression with the loose grip on the bullet and a soso crimp on the bullet.

[dougader]

The 45 auto round is correctly called the 45 acp
ACP stands for Automatic Colt Pistol, which describes the gun John Browning created. 45 auto accurately describes the ammunition for the 45 ACP (gun).


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BXP3dsJ/0/ecd29455/O/i-BXP3dsJ.jpg

[onelight]

DanWalker,

Thanks for clarifying that. I recently (four days ago) bought one of those molds and will be trying your 6.5 gr RD load.
Do you use a standard or mag primer with that powder? The reason I ask I I've tried some fast powder in lower charge weights with both light and heavy bullets in a 45 Colt and depending where the power lays in the case got wide velocity swings.
Of course I am probably the only idiot that will test loads over a chrony by also testing powder position in the case.
I have had wide swings even with Bullseye in the 45 Colt with standard loads and I am a BIG fan of Bullseye.
Just wondering if a mag primer will give more consistent loads and if you have tested them.
I use standard primers in anything with Red Dot.