Gould Bullet

[giz189]

Just thought I would pass this info on to anyone who may be considering using the Gould bullet for hunting. Gould bullet 3 Deer 0. Deer just don't move far,if any with one of these thru their boiler room. Took 1 with .45-70 with 50 grs IMR 3031 used in a Marlin CB. Took 2 using muzzleloader with 100 grains FF with sabots for .458 dia bullet. Was very happy with performance of this bullet. 20 - 1 in .45-70 and 40 - 1 in muzzleloader.:castmine:

[WHITETAIL]

Thanks for the info.:lovebooli
I have that boolet on my bench right now.
I plan on useing it this year in the
Cowboy.
I have used the RCBS 405 on deer.
Like you said Cowboy 3 deer 0.
Now to try the gould boolet.:holysheep

[StrawHat]

I have been using this boolit, cast 20/1, in my 45-70 Rolling block and in a 45-70 muzzle loader. For the muzzle loader I size it just smaller than the bore and it slugs up to fit.

Great design.

[cigg52]

How many grain is the Gould bullet, Mold #?

[clintsfolly]

330grs 457122 have use it in my 450marlin boltgun cast form lyman#2 at 2100fps just hits hard! 3/4" in 1 1/2"out Meatmasher 2 deer zip!! Clint

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Yes, that's a good deer boolit. Size it down for Colt size cartridges too. Usually very accurate in most everything that shoots it. Worked great in my old #3 Ruger, especially on those neck shots. BvT

[rob45]

Actually the design never went away.

The original mold was 456122; the current designation is 457122.
Without a doubt, probably the hollowpoint mold to have if using your 45-70 to go after Bambi.

People want it, but not everyone understands how to make it work most effectively. Use the proper alloy and load it to black powder velocities for best results.

For more clarification, check out this thread and read what the windbag has to say about cast hollowpoints in post #10. By the way, the "windbag" has taken over 20 deer with the Gould design alone.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=73685

For even more info on cast hollowpoints in general, here is an interesting article by someone with more credibility than the windbag above:
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Bill, you don't say what you cast your boolits from, sometimes on large tough game the boolit will work fine IF it is cast hard enough to stay together and penetrate...sounds like yours may be to soft/ and or over expanding on contact and fragminting...IMHO

[Bucks Owin]

Thanks for the report! I'm looking forward to trying this bullet sized .454" in my .45 Ruger BH at 1150 fps or so, as well as in my .45/70 going somewhat faster....

[jonk]

YES! Inventions! Inventions to fight the Go'auld!

Not naquata powered then?

Sorry it was all I could think of when hearing 'Gould' bullet. Got any pics of it? I'm not familiar with them.

[rob45]

In CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD has some history of the H. Gould bullet, reprinted from a IDEAL HAND BOOK No. 17, printed circa 1906 ;
Loaded with black powder, 26" barrel :
45-70-330 Gould H. 1338fps@50', Energy@50' 1315,
penetration 10 lead. boards at 15' ,
trajectory 100 yard height at 50 yards 2.82" , 200yds 12.66" , 300yds 31.76",
recoil foot pounds with black = 12.70.,

As I understand it was soft lead , the hollow point was intended to expand.
Wheel weights weren't around yet, but obviously smokeless powders were and handloaders were pushing it faster.

Does anyone know what the H initial stood for of Gould's first name ?

The "H" was not part of Gould's name.

A.C. Gould, as in Arthur Corbin Gould.

The "H" referenced above more likely abbreviated the type of mold, as in hollowpoint.

The Ideal company originally called the bullet "Gould's 45-330 Express".

Here is a short history:
John H. Barlow founded the Ideal company in 1884.
In 1910 Barlow retired and sold Ideal to the Marlin Firearms Company.
During WWI, Marlin had financial troubles and sold Ideal to Phineas Talcott, a lawyer.
Talcott nearly ran Ideal into the ground, and supposedly Winchester convinced the Lyman family to purchase Ideal in order to speed up production. (Winchester at the time had several export contracts to Australia, and the Aussies wanted reloading tools with their firearms.) Or so the story goes.
Lyman purchased Ideal from Talcott in 1925, and the companies name was changed from Ideal to Lyman.

During the early years that Barlow owned Ideal, the most prominent gunwriter of the time was A.C. Gould.
Gould was the editor of (New York) Shooting and Fishing magazine. He also published The Rifle, a precursor to today's American Rifleman published by the NRA. His most notable accomplishment was that he authored the first American book on pistol shooting, The Modern American Pistol and Revolver.

Gould could easily have been the Elmer Keith of his time.

Sometime around 1890 (nobody knows exactly when), Gould commissioned Barlow to produce a lightweight hunting bullet for the 45-70. Gould envisioned the bullet, and Barlow (Ideal) designed and manufactured the mold. The designation was "Gould's 45-330 Express".
The mold name remained the same until Lyman introduced a numbering catalog system. When they did so, the "Gould" bullet became 456122. Later on, Lyman updated and reorganized their system, and the same mold became 457122. And that is the same design we have available today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Corbin_Gould

Hope that answer's some questions. All of the above information was referenced from various Lyman manuals, and a few really old Ideal handbooks. Plus some internet searches. References available upon request.

[rob45]

Got any pics of it? I'm not familiar with them.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/select-mould-rifle.php?styleRef=cat19#anc

[SCIBUL]

I love this boolit too. I shoot it in my MARLIN 1895.
I cast thes with straight WW an let them air cool. I size them with a .458 Lyman sizer and BAC. My load is 29grs of Vihtavuori N110, LR primer and a cardboard wad.
Speed is 1771fps and deers don't do any comments !:holysheep

[yondering]

The two on the right are Gould bullets (softnosed with WW base, if you look close you can see the joint at the top driving band). They work great in Ruger Blackhawks (45 Colt).

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/molds/IMG_6768.jpg

[KCSO]

Good golly!!! 50 grains of 3031, that would kill and elephant! Holy black in a 70 grain load kills em dead for me. I've been using the Gould bullet for over 30 years with no complaints.

[giz189]

Good golly!!! 50 grains of 3031, that would kill and elephant! Holy black in a 70 grain load kills em dead for me. I've been using the Gould bullet for over 30 years with no complaints. I know. When I first started loading this bullet, I had read about Elmer Keith and Paul Matthews using 53 grains of IMR 3031, so that is where I started, after working up to it of course. Well, I took a dozen or so to the range, shot four of them, went back home and pulled the remaining bullets and reduced it to 50 grs. Have started pp'ing
them and the first ones I tried at 50 yds out of the Cowboy had two in one hole and the third one cutting the first two. Using the same powder charge as when I shot them as a gg boolitt.:drinks:

[giz189]

would those work in a Marlin 45 long colt? or are they too long?should work I think, mine are .900 long as I load them. Also, when pp'ing, I sized them to .454 before wrapping them and they went thru the rifle fine. Just wrapped enough of the bullet to be even with the case mouth or perhaps 1/32 or so longer.

[Nrut]

yondering,
How do you expand the HP cavity on your Gould soft nose shown in the photo above?
I like...

[yondering]

yondering,
How do you expand the HP cavity on your Gould soft nose shown in the photo above?
I like...

Very easily! :)

When Miha ran his second 45 ACP 200gr hollow point group buy (the re-run, not the re-re-run), he shipped the molds with a pointed lubersizer top punch, to fit in the hollow cavity. (Those are the bullets on the left.) I use that top punch on the Gould bullet for a little faster expansion at 45 Colt velocity.

Incidentally, I've found this same top punch works to swage hollow point cavities in most cast bullets, as long as they are ACWW or softer, during the lubing/sizing process. I've sharpened the punch to make this a little easier.

I don't know if Miha would make and sell more of these punches, but they aren't too hard to make on your own, if you have a belt grinder and a cordless drill.

[Char-Gar]

I have used the Gould HP bullet over 28-30 grains of 4795 for many years. Cast 1-20 it will kill deer grave yard dead.

[Nrut]

Thanks yondering...
You jarred my memory as to how Finn45 made his HP nose punch..
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2394
Looks simple enough to make..

[yondering]

Thanks yondering...
You jarred my memory as to how Finn45 made his HP nose punch..
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2394
Looks simple enough to make..

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen that before. Finn's HP punch is similar to the punches I've made, Miha's is similar but has a nice shoulder on it, and is more cleanly cut on a lathe.
Finn mentioned enlarging of the nose as a problem; I've done this with the Lee 452-300 WFN bullet and found the same thing. My solution was to flip the bullet over and run it halfway into a .452 sizer, making the nose fit the cylinder throats in my Blackhawk, with the base still sized at .454". This doesn't seem to be a problem when enlarging the nose of the Gould bullet.