45-70 Sabot with Cast Bullet

[BrianB]

I want to use a saboted .359 cast bullet in a 45-70 for various reasons. (I hope this is the right place for this question)

Does anyone have load info on this? The bullet is from an NOE group buy mold and weighs 180 grains. The powder I currently use is Reloder 7, but I'm not married to it. The gun is a Handi-Rifle. Has anyone done this? Would anyone share load data?

I apologize in advance if this has been covered before, I just couldn't locate any info on it.

[BrianB]

Ooops, I did find a very thorough previous post on this. Still wouldn't mind hearing some other experiences with this combo.

[DLCTEX]

Link to the post you found?

[rob45]

Link to the post you found?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=15785&highlight=45-70+sabots

[DLCTEX]

Thanks, I did a search for sabot in 45-70 and got a thread on sabots, but this one didn't come up. Interesting!

[BrianB]

Gonna give this another try.
Still looking for someone who has data on the 180 grain .358 to .359 cast bullet saboted for a 45-70. The only data using Reloder-7 did not look right at all to me.
Also, just picked up some Unique for another project, could that be an option?

[Johnch]

I have shot 175 gr 40 cal cast in a sabot
Loaded in a 45 ACP
I got good groups , very little recoil and the loads feed from the magazine fine

I tryed a 200 gr bullet in the same sabots in the 45/70
But I only got patterns , not groups

But I only tryed a few loads
As I ran out of sabots and didn't see a real reason to buy more

John

[XWrench3]

never tried a sabot in my 45/70. but i have used some paper patched 45 acp boolits. they worked great for light plinkers! i was a little concerned about paper patching with my muzzle brake, but it works fine. for plinking, you might want to think about paper patching. it is way easier than you would think. but if you want hunting loads, you will have to buy either boolits made for p.p., or buy a regular p.p. mold. i dont think you would want to use a 45acp bullet to hunt seriously with.

[Tazman1602]

Now this is interesting. If anyone does this can you post loading info? Like to crimp or not to crimp, I'm guessing you would NOT crimp and just use as a single shot, got a Gibbs 45-70 this might be fun in.

Just as an afterthought, how about using black powder (the real BP...) for safety's sake? Bad idea, good idea? I'm going to be doing some BPCR stuff with this rifle and am curious as to this idea now..........

Art

[mroliver77]

I have done .40 cal saboted in 45/70. I just used light loads of unique to play with. Offhand plinking accuracy was fine.;
Jay

[yondering]

I've done this in 45 Colt, but not 45/70, with .38/.45 muzzleloader sabots. My intent was to get high velocity with a light bullet. Results were poor; the problem was the muzzleloader sabots wouldn't stand the pressure of smokeless powder, and they were blowing through at the base. The recovered sabots looked like chewed up donuts.

I haven't tried it yet, but I think the fix for this would be to seat a gas check upside down under the sabot, to keep it from blowing through the base. Otherwise, try to keep pressures low.

Unique will work OK, but you might get better results from a slower powder that will burn well at low pressures. Black powder would probably be work best, that's what the sabots are designed for anyway.

You can use a pretty good crimp, it doesn't seem to hurt the sabot.

[BrianB]

I have done .40 cal saboted in 45/70. I just used light loads of unique to play with. Offhand plinking accuracy was fine.;
Jay

What was the weight of the bullet and what would be a starting load of Unique?

"Now this is interesting. If anyone does this can you post loading info? Like to crimp or not to crimp, I'm guessing you would NOT crimp and just use as a single shot, got a Gibbs 45-70 this might be fun in.

Just as an afterthought, how about using black powder (the real BP...) for safety's sake? Bad idea, good idea? I'm going to be doing some BPCR stuff with this rifle and am curious as to this idea now.........."

I feel certain you could fill it completely full of Triple Seven or BP...there is no way you could possibly generate enough pressure to cause any problem. (Just get ready for a good cleaning session!)

My guess is you will need to at least slightly crimp it. One reason being to make sure it does not slide out, though that may not be an issue. Another reason is that the neck will probably have to be expanded, as with other projectiles, to get the sabot in. So you'll need to get it back down to size.

[NSP64]

Anyone go anywhere with this?
I am starting down this road too.
Bought some MMP sabots (blue-38/45) and a SC ideal 158gr roundnose mold to play with in 45-70 in a 14" pistol.


Thinking od using TB to start with.
Cast some boolits up in ACWW and pure PB to try. The boolits go into the sabots easy and unsize boolits give me .459 on the outside of the sabot.

They push in easily in once fired unsized brass, thinking a good roll crimp.

Range report tomorrow weather permitting.:redneck:

[mroliver77]

I guess I never seen the follow up question for me.

I never got very involved as I had bought some clearance sabots and .40 cal bullets from Wal-mart in a 25 pack. 8-10gr Unique makes them fly and shoot ok. I never did any serious testing or load work up. Actually 8gr Unique will work in about 95% of all cases there are. ;)

I have a 452423 mould that drops like .456" boolits. I beagled it and ended up with fairly round, soft, .459" boolits(after sizing). These work great in my Rem Rolling block and my Marlin levergun for plinking. Much nicer than the saboted rounds. 8-10gr Bullseye, Red dot, Unique will send you in to fits of giddy laughter!

Or, with a stiff dose of 4895 in the lever, you wouldn't want to get hit with one!

[ghh3rd]

hmmm... my buddy has been telling me that I should try hunting with something lighter than the 420 and 405 gr boolits I've been using... wonder how fast a 148 gr wadcutter would fly? :twisted:

[NSP64]

hmmm... wonder how fast a 148 gr wadcutter would fly? :twisted:

I have some HBWC's, They dont fit the sabot very well.

hollow base forward or backwards[smilie=1:

Been in the dungeon and having problems with seating die, (been up 36 hrs -worked last night) it is the hornady with the floating bullet seating plug/crimper thingy-ma-job.

[brotherdarrell]

I did this a couple of years ago with my Marlin 45-70. I used Buffalo Bullet Co. sabots for .357 bullet. The boolit was a Lee 158 rnfp, and primers were CCI LR. Powder was Trail Boss.

The first load I shot was with 9 grs. That first shot was tied down to the bench and the trigger was pulled with a string as I hid behind the truck. It was clear after firing that it was a relatively low power load. After making sure the barrel was clear I shot the remainder.

I don't know fps, but through the scope I could see the boolits on the way to the target, and my eyes are not much good. Groups at 50 yds with this load stayed around 1.5" - 2", at 100 yds they were 4" - 5". They also had the flight path of a 20lb hunk of lead thrown by me and my bad shoulder!!!

A couple conclusions I came to:

I wanted a light plinking or short range coyote load. It was an almost recoil free load out of the Marlin, and probobly too light for coyote size much past 25 yds.

The cases were flared with rcbs expander. In order to keep the sabot from backing out I had to trim cases square, did not deburrinside and then crimped so that the 'squareness'(is that a word?) of the end of the case would hold the sabot in place.

I went as high as 11 grs. TB. At this point the sabots started to fail. The shot sabots I picked up had destroyed bases (melted and missing chunks). I also spent almost an hour cleaning melted plastic out of the barrel. With the starting load I got whisps of plastic that came out easily, not so with 11 grs. Accuracy never improved from the starting load.

These loads fed without fail in my Marlin from the toob.

I offer up this as info only, not recommending that it be done, and make use at your own risk, if at all. I found it to be safe in MY gun and with MY componants. In total I fired over 50 rounds through and never had a hiccup, but for various reasons I never returned to the tests.

Hope this helps.

Brotherdarrell