9 X 18 Ultra

[Johnch]

The other night my lady and I went to the range and did some shooting

We were last out , so we swept up and scrounged any usable brass

Today I did a quick sort of the brass and thought I would be nice and load her up some more 380

Well part way through something felt wrong , so I stoped and found a case where the boolit was pushed in way to far [smilie=b:

Sat it to the side and checked everything
No problems , so I started loading again

A 2 case went through where the boolit was way to low just at the end

I finaly took a hard look at those 2 cases
Instead of anything saying it was a 380
It said 9 x 18 Ultra
I had never heard of the round
But it looks to be a 380 case streched out 1 MM

I guess I will have to look a little harder next time
As I ruined 2 boolits :groner:

Anyone shoot this round ?
What pistol shoots it ?

John

[JesterGrin_1]

never heard of a 9 X 18 Ultra but the Makarov shoots a 9 X 18. Maybe it was just a standard Makarov round and the people that made the rounds just added the Ultra to it so people would think it was special lol.

[9.3X62AL]

That is exactly what it is--a 380 ACP made 1mm longer. SIG-Sauer and Walther made these in the 1970's for domestic West German police usage. The caliber offered a bit more power than the 380 ACP. They were not an unqualified success, and the 9mm Luger was adopted in the 1980s. Most 9mm Ultra factory loads use a FMJ truncated-cone form bullet.

Like the 9mm Makarov, the 9 x 18 Ultra operates near the upper limit of blowback ability to function in absence of a locked breech. Recoil spring rates are fairly heavy in both. 9 x 18 Ultra is a conventional Western 9mm diameter, .355" nominally--9 x 18 Makarov bullets run .363"-.365". THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

[wiljen]

The 9x18 ultra was marketed in europe where a lot of citizens are not allowed to own a gun chambered in 9x19 Para

[JesterGrin_1]

9.3 x 62AL Thank You for the info. As the Makarov has been the only pistol that I have seen that used the 9X18.

[Johnch]

9.3 x 62AL Thaks for the info and quick responce

I had no idea

But I knew someone here would know
As we have a vast pool of smart people to pull data from here

Thanks again
John

[Rocky Raab]

They are three different rounds. I researched it carefully when I did the pioneering load data work on the Mak back in '91. None of them interchange.

The .380, 9x18 Ultra and 9x18 Makarov share very few dimensions. Head diameter, bullet diameter, rim diameter and case length all differ among them. Needless to say, all three are quite different from all other "9mm" rounds as well.

The Ultra is the most uncommon of all of them - almost to the point of being an oddity. Whoever left that brass could not possibly be a reloader as finding the right brass for an Ultra is THE hardest part of the equation.

[Bradley]

The Walther 9x18 Ultra was a very interesting pistol. Not particularly small as I remember. But a bit odd looking. I owned one decades ago but haven't seen one for probably twenty years. I suppose if you were really interested you could go to the Walther collector site and ask if anyone could post a picture.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155959612
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155014005

[Phat Man Mike]

boy they don't look cheap either!

[quasi]

Walther 9x18 ultra police guns from Europe were surplussed in Canada in the 80's. The going rate around here is $300-400 can., in the factory box with papers and 2 mags.

[Sprue]

They are three different rounds. I researched it carefully when I did the pioneering load data work on the Mak back in '91. None of them interchange.

The .380, 9x18 Ultra and 9x18 Makarov share very few dimensions. Head diameter, bullet diameter, rim diameter and case length all differ among them. Needless to say, all three are quite different from all other "9mm" rounds as well.

The Ultra is the most uncommon of all of them - almost to the point of being an oddity. Whoever left that brass could not possibly be a reloader as finding the right brass for an Ultra is THE hardest part of the equation.

Not so sure about that comment:

http://www.grafs.com/metallic/513

[sheepdog]

The 9x18 ultra was round developed by the Czechs when they beefed up the design on the makarov to the cz82. From what I understand its about 15% more fps than the standard 9x18, kinda like a +p loading. Dangerous to shoot in anything but a cz82 or the newer 12 roudn makarovs.

[spqrzilla]

No.

The 9x18 Ultra is not a Czech round and is not a varient of the 9mm Makarov as mentioned above. The CZ 82 is not chambered in 9x18 Ultra.

[weasle94]

9x18 ultra or police was developed in Germany as a pistol and ammo for the German police ,so only police could get them(remember one of the first things Hitler did was take all the peoples guns ) They came back out in the 70's Walther made one called a PP Super and I heard of others . Ammo is damn hard to come byIt is not anywhere near .380 or 9mm luger or Makarov . I have shot mine a few times and this is one nasty self defender.I do not know why they went away ,but I love mine . I am having a hard time finding reloading dies and data for it ,but I found new brass to reload . It takes a special bullet that starts to a sharp point immediatly at the end of the case. it is .355 and about 90 to 100 grain bullet.

[Trey45]

John, how much brass did you collect? If you don't have a need for it yourself, might I suggest placing an add in the S&S section? I'd wager it lasts apprx. 14 seconds there. Hey just a suggestion.

[dtex50]

I'm frequently browsing for info on 9x18 police/ultras and ran across this site. Read this thread and was pleased to finds folks that are informed about this round. I have a Sig P230 in 9mm Police, along with a few bricks of Hirtenberg ammo, and boxes of Geco and Fiocchi. As I'm trying to hang on to the factory stuff, I started reloading with Fiocchi brass. Haven't yet tried many projectiles (90 gr XTPs and Rem 90 gr RN). I liked W231 when working up loads for my CZ82s (the OTHER,DIFFERENT 9x18), so I started with that powder. I picked this pistol up at a local show from some folks that specialize in Sig P210s.

[Johnch]

John, how much brass did you collect? If you don't have a need for it yourself, might I suggest placing an add in the S&S section? I'd wager it lasts apprx. 14 seconds there. Hey just a suggestion.

Total of 3 cases

So not worth the postage

I added 1 to my cart. collection and the 2 that I loaded as 380
Are still loaded , on the shelf where I can see them

Just to remind me to double check brass

John

[weasle94]

9x18 ultra or police is a special load. Avery good load as it travels a little over 1100 fps with a 90 gr boolit. i would buy the ammo and the Walther if they were available for a good price. Did not think much of the cartridge until I shot it . Very powerful and acurraet. I love it. I have gone to reloading them. It is not a Makarove ,which is larger diameter and the slide will not close fully.People will tell you that a .380 can be fired through it.Maybe ,but it is not made for a .380 and it rattles in the chamber when loaded.Not a good idea. Kind of hard to get ahold of the ammo. I heard Fiocchi ran a bunch off recently so there should be some around. I have seen one fella trying to strip us at $75.00 a box. ,shame. I have a 5 mm remington rim fire and went through this and now the ammo is around at a decent price. No need to screw people just because you think you can.

[weasle94]

Barnes and Hornady make a 90 grain boolit for the 9x18 ,It takes a .355 boolit and seated properly ,as the Walthers are picky

[fknipfer1]

I have been playing with a 124gr Berry Truncated bullet for the 9mmX18 Ultra police round. I used Fiocchi Brass, WSPrimer and Berry bullets. I started at 3.0grs of Unique and have worked my way up to 3.6grs. FPS started a 736 for the 3.0 and ended up at 885 for the 3.6grs round. I fired ten each and Chronographed each of the loads. My brass looked ok and the primers were not bulged or loose. I have now loaded two more rounds of ten each 3.7grs and 3.8grs of Uniques. I looks like I am getting about 30fps each time I increase the load by a tenth of a grain. I have a Walther PP Super and it is a sweet gun to shoot. I have loaded and shot a lot of 100gr Magnus truncated lfn cast boolits and they shoot sweet but I am trying to develop a defensive round for the pistol and I think I am pretty close. If it will go to 1000fps I will be there or even if it gets around 950fps I will be happy. Really enamored with the pistol and round just need to find me a P230 now in the 9X18mm Ultra.

fnipfer

[weasle94]

I got a little more than 1100 fps using Fiocchi standard factory ammo with a 90 grain bullet and pretty good acurracy

[weasle94]

9x18 ultra is a bad a** cartridge . Much faster than .380 and much more penetration than a 9x18 Mak. I was surprised by it . It needs to be brought back . As Fiocchi is the main manufacturer of them "How about it Fiocchi?" Run off a batch ,you will not lose any money.