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View Full Version : Big,flat,, and fat, friggin 44 group buy



357maximum
06-06-2006, 01:27 AM
Any interest in a 280 to 290 grain .432 to .434 flat nose gas check LBT type?

Something like a 70 % meplate and a nose length of around .400

Standard lube groove type

for the 444 marlin leverguns

I tried and a .413 nose length will cycle and chamber in my 444S

We could even have two crimp grooves if people want it.


Just fishing for interest at this stage...

Dutch4122
06-06-2006, 05:20 AM
Does your .444 have the newer, faster twist? My Winchester/USRAC Black Shadow .444 has a 1 in 12 twist (according to the factory tag) so I'd love to have one in the 290 grain range. Minimum of .434" cast of wheelweight. My vote would be for a 290-300 grain boolit as we've just did the "Fat .44" at 265 grns which Jeff223 ran. Also, I think the multiple crimp groove design is a good idea.

If this gets off the ground you could count on me to order one.

Johnch
06-06-2006, 07:14 PM
A .432 or biger , 300 gr with multiple crimp grooves and a wide meplate ...............

Yea I would be interested in one

Johnch

357maximum
06-06-2006, 07:15 PM
Dutch, Mine is an older marlin with the slow twist micro groove. It shoots 250-300 grain j bullets real good. Cast has been a little frustrating, but I think I have that cornered now. Two crimp grooves ( yeah that would be most excellent).

Dutch4122
06-06-2006, 07:35 PM
If you have the older 1 in 38 twist then I can see where 290 grn might be as high as you want to go.

Have you run this idea past 45 2.1 for a drawing? Just a suggestion here, but I also like the idea of his modified TL grooves like he put on the group buy designs for Ranch Dog. They are designed to work with both a lube/sizer and Tumble lubes. And, each groove could be used as a crimp groove so you wouldn't have to worry about multiple crimp grooves on a .44/.444 boolit. Maybe that design type might appeal to more members and translate into more orders?

Not trying to take over your idea here, just making a couple of suggestions.

Either way, I'd still be in.

357maximum
06-06-2006, 08:09 PM
Ranch Dogs lines of thinking would be acceptable to me. I just recieved a sample pack from him to try this weekend. I will know more after that. As far as weight is concerned I will take 280, 290, or 300. I just may have marlin replace the barrel anyway if my new round of tricks do not work out well. I have a fire lapping kit on the way to try also. Check out beartooth bullets teck notes on the 444 interesting read, and where I am at in my current thinkin.


I will contact 45 and R.D they might already have a + or - 290 designed, just a guess

Michael

45 2.1
06-07-2006, 07:17 AM
If someone has a 290 gr or there about weight boolit, would you give me the length of it?

Bass Ackward
06-07-2006, 04:14 PM
If someone has a 290 gr or there about weight boolit, would you give me the length of it?

Bob,

I have a Keith at .810 if that helps ya.

357maximum
06-07-2006, 07:24 PM
I have a beartooth 290 gr. I got from R.D that is .815 long and actually weighs 294.7 grains. It has a nose length of about .413 and is a what I would call a long flat nose, traditional lube groove type.

lar45
06-08-2006, 01:20 AM
Did you see the 360 gn RH step child single cavity molds that were made a while ago? I think Oldfeller was supposed to be making a 44-06 or something?
They look pretty weird lubed up, but they shoot alright.
http://www.lsstuff.com/pics/bullets/44-360-01.jpg

Ranch Dog
06-08-2006, 06:51 AM
I've been really tied up here at the ranch and just saw this. I had worked on a little heavier bullet to the TLC432 but was worried about the stability in the 1:38 rifles. Beyond .735", some work out and some don't. I will see if I can find the info on my hard-drive and will be back...

Was shooting some load work yesterday with the TLC432-285-RF (cast at 265-grains) out at 250 and 300-yards... I don't know if I want or need anything else from my 444! I was working for the first time with Benchmark and the accuracy was outstanding.

357maximum
06-08-2006, 08:24 PM
"Was shooting some load work yesterday with the TLC432-285-RF (cast at 265-grains) out at 250 and 300-yards... I don't know if I want or need anything else from my 444! I was working for the first time with Benchmark and the accuracy was outstanding."


I think you may not be the only one thinking this way, from bouncing around the net, it seems to be a popular opinion. I am starting to kinda doubt, this being a real successful venture, but I will keep hoping against hope, I would like to try the heavier boolit, just because I can, and this particular micro groove likes heavy j word bullets. I hope to know more about cast 265's, and 290's after this weekend. My marlin has returned with a slightly redressed crown, we'll see what that does for it.

LET-CA
06-08-2006, 09:03 PM
I've been really tied up here at the ranch and just saw this. I had worked on a little heavier bullet to the TLC432 but was worried about the stability in the 1:38 rifles. Beyond .735", some work out and some don't. I will see if I can find the info on my hard-drive and will be back...

Was shooting some load work yesterday with the TLC432-285-RF (cast at 265-grains) out at 250 and 300-yards... I don't know if I want or need anything else from my 444! I was working for the first time with Benchmark and the accuracy was outstanding.

Anything 200-plus yards away from me is generally in a safe zone. I'm looking forward to my 6-holer from the group buy to try out in my Winchester. I think it has a 1 in 38 twist also, not sure but seem to remember it from somewhere.

If I could get hold of a 40 mm grenade launcher like my nephew had in Iraq - then I could effectively reach out and touch a pig at long range! :Fire:

Newtire
06-09-2006, 08:21 PM
"Was shooting some load work yesterday with the TLC432-285-RF (cast at 265-grains) out at 250 and 300-yards... I don't know if I want or need anything else from my 444! I was working for the first time with Benchmark and the accuracy was outstanding."


I think you may not be the only one thinking this way, from bouncing around the net, it seems to be a popular opinion. I am starting to kinda doubt, this being a real successful venture, but I will keep hoping against hope, I would like to try the heavier boolit, just because I can, and this particular micro groove likes heavy j word bullets. I hope to know more about cast 265's, and 290's after this weekend. My marlin has returned with a slightly redressed crown, we'll see what that does for it.
Hi 357,
Have one of those 1-38" twist Marlin's and it is a real gem with the 265's(both jac****ed and cast. If you want a 300 gr, Lee already makes one as you know. I have it & it is great at 50 yds. in my .444. Feeds real good seated into the last crimp groove.
The Marlin I have is about the best cast bullet rifle I have. Tied with the 30-30 in accuracy but better in knockdown power I'm thinking.

357maximum
06-09-2006, 10:38 PM
Hi 357,
Have one of those 1-38" twist Marlin's and it is a real gem with the 265's(both jac****ed and cast. If you want a 300 gr, Lee already makes one as you know. I have it & it is great at 50 yds. in my .444. Feeds real good seated into the last crimp groove.
The Marlin I have is about the best cast bullet rifle I have. Tied with the 30-30 in accuracy but better in knockdown power I'm thinking.


Newtire

I was thinking that the 310 gr lee bullet would cast to small for my 444s. I slugged it at 431 to 431.5 (digital calipers, no mic) They call the 310 mold a 430 so I was thinkin it might be a bit smallish in diameter.

What diameter does your mold throw with wheelweights?

I hope to get time to load and try the boolits I got from Ranch Dog this weekend to let me know more, they are fat. I normally sight my 444 in at 100 for hunting up to 200 yards with nosler partitions, and would like to come somewhat close to being able to do the same with cast, so accuracy of 1.5 or so inches at 100 is the lowest acceptable accuracy for me with ol' BERTHA. (she will one hole the noslers if I do my part)


Michael

Newtire
06-10-2006, 09:33 AM
Newtire

I was thinking that the 310 gr lee bullet would cast to small for my 444s. I slugged it at 431 to 431.5 (digital calipers, no mic) They call the 310 mold a 430 so I was thinkin it might be a bit smallish in diameter.

What diameter does your mold throw with wheelweights?

I hope to get time to load and try the boolits I got from Ranch Dog this weekend to let me know more, they are fat. I normally sight my 444 in at 100 for hunting up to 200 yards with nosler partitions, and would like to come somewhat close to being able to do the same with cast, so accuracy of 1.5 or so inches at 100 is the lowest acceptable accuracy for me with ol' BERTHA. (she will one hole the noslers if I do my part)


Michael
Hey Mike,
About the only way to find out is to try them in your Marlin. Mine casts at .431" with a shank that is too small for the gascheck and weighs 298 gr. I have shot them with big charges of RX-7 (45 gr.) and 41 gr. 4198. I just don't lke the shoulder punishment from the bench. Will have to get a "De-cellerator" pad on that thing (my new favorite pad). These all touch each other at 50 yds. from 3-shots. Like I said, not too interested in going any more with that 444. I think the 265 is the better bullet unless maybe you are going for something needing real definite penetration. The 265 goes right thru a hog end to end at 50 yds. I once made my best shot ever on a running pig at 150 yds with that thing. Sideways, the 265 goes right thru. Are you hunting American Bison? Maybe then you would need a bit more penetration.

357maximum
06-10-2006, 09:57 AM
"Are you hunting American Bison? Maybe then you would need a bit more penetration."

Nope, Just whitetail, stray cats, and steel plates up to 400 yards out back.


I shot the Ranch Dog 265 grainers he sent me. She likes them I put them over 48 grains of H322 and one big ragged hole at 100 yards.


Thank You R.D between them boolits and the new crown she shoots, did not even use the firelap kit. No need for a new barrel after all.

YOU GUYS ARE GREAT,, I simply had not done my homework, Fatter boolits was my saving grace. Thank You All

Now I have to wait for a reprisal of the Ranch Dog buy now, I missed it because my head was waaaay up my, well it was dark and smelly where it was at.

Thank You All veeeeerrrrrrryyyyy much....

Michael

nighthunter
06-10-2006, 01:37 PM
I have a mold from Dan at MM that weighs in at 293 grains without gas check and OAL is .790. It shoots extremely well and I am very pleased with it. It has an 80% meplat. If anyone wants a pic let me know.
Nighthunter

357maximum
06-10-2006, 03:47 PM
"If anyone wants a pic let me know."


YES, PLEASE

Marlin Junky
06-10-2006, 04:46 PM
Explain the "group buy" to me. How is it possible for you guys to get oversized molds? Being a Ballard rifled Marlin nut, just about everything I own has .005" deep grooves with normal bores.

BTW Mike, a 38" twist will stabilize a 300 grain WFN if it is sufficiently over groove diameter and launched fast enough.

MJ

P.S. WFN = 70% meplat

nighthunter
06-11-2006, 08:32 AM
357maximum ...

nighthunter
06-11-2006, 08:35 AM
357maximum ... I'm heading to Canada for a couple of weeks for work. If you have any questions on this bullet I'll get back to you then. If you would want to try a few I could probably send them out.
Nighthunter

357maximum
06-11-2006, 09:29 AM
I have had several questions as to whether or not this is still on the table.


Yes it is, It is in the design phase and so far

290 to 300 grain -- .434 diameter -- spec'ed .435 on drawing, to ensure fatness. In a Ranch Dog type tumble lube is what I am thinking. Any comments, nays, boos, hisses, are welcome at this point..

When I said I was waiting for A REPRISAL of the other buy, I meant I want that one TOO. You never have enough molds.

Michael

LET-CA
06-11-2006, 05:35 PM
Explain the "group buy" to me. How is it possible for you guys to get oversized molds? Being a Ballard rifled Marlin nut, just about everything I own has .005" deep grooves with normal bores.

BTW Mike, a 38" twist will stabilize a 300 grain WFN if it is sufficiently over groove diameter and launched fast enough.

MJ

P.S. WFN = 70% meplat

Group buys are done by getting a mould design and submitting it to Lee Precision Engineering. They will do most anything within the abilities of their equipment for a $100 setup fee plus the cost of the mould. If the quantities are sufficient, they waive the $100 setup fee. There's always a subset of the people here putting together various purchases. Some fill quickly, and others take awhile to get sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile. Given that most firearms seem to do better with cast bullets that are a bit oversized, that's the one of the most common form of group buy.

A single forum member takes the lead in collecting the funds and making the purchase. That person then is responsible for sending each person their mould. It's a real labor of love, especially when you consider the consderable flack they catch from some members . . . nothing good to say so I'll shut up.

Anyway, the group buys are quite popular here.

Poohgyrr
06-11-2006, 09:47 PM
I'm new here & to casting, but in on two group buys right now, and simply have too many other things fighting for the chunk of money for this good looking mold. Well, I don't have a rifle for this either.. But that's not exactly what I'd call a problem.. [smilie=1: Otherwise I'd already have joined in here.

Checking what everyone has posted about the other group buys, I haven't really seen any problems.

357maximum
06-11-2006, 09:58 PM
I'm new here & to casting, but in on two group buys right now, and simply have too many other things fighting for the chunk of money for this good looking mold. Well, I don't have a rifle for this either.. But that's not exactly what I'd call a problem.. [smilie=1: Otherwise I'd already have joined in here.

Checking what everyone has posted about the other group buys, I haven't really seen any problems.



I think time will be on your side on this one, I'm a thinkin she's gonna take awhile, unless we do a deal where we all pay part of the setup fee (which proably is the way she is gonna go). We are still in the discussin/designing stage, and when it is finalized I will have the buy stickied/and renamed to buy starts now...

As far as buying a mold for a toy you have not got YET, I think alot of us have done that, I know I have and will again...


As of right now she still is a RanchDog type 300 grainer spec'ed at .435 to cast at .434 by lee..

Michael

Ranch Dog
06-12-2006, 05:16 AM
I think the 265 is the better bullet unless maybe you are going for something needing real definite penetration. The 265 goes right thru a hog end to end at 50 yds. I once made my best shot ever on a running pig at 150 yds with that thing. Sideways, the 265 goes right thru. Are you hunting American Bison? Maybe then you would need a bit more penetration.

This is my thinking based on my hunting experience. I like hunting up close but I also like being prepared to "get 'er done!"

Both my whitetail bucks were killed at 35 yards last year. Heart/lung broadside shots dropped them like a sledge hammer to the head. I haven't been able to get that close to desert mule deer. The closest shot I've made is 140-yards and the furthest, 225-yards. That 140-yard shot was interesting.

I had watched this deer the better part of a morning and finally had closed the distance to the last available cover. I got him to stand up from his bed and shot him through the chest cavity and he immediately dropped. All morning he had been fighting with another buck over a hot doe. At the shot, the other buck and doe left their beds and ran right past my downed buck. Buck #2 actually jumped right over the top of my deer. My downed deer saw this and was immediately back up on it's feet and running after them. The rut is a powerful thing. I took a quick shot and missed. While talking to myself about taking my time for another shot (deer are easily lost in this country) I squeezed off another TLC432. The deer was running at a slight angle, almost straight away from me. The boolit struck it just below and to one side of the tail. It traveled the length of it's body and exited the opposite shoulder/neck area. The deer was running head down as it was running out of steam and as the boolit left the deer's body, it punched a 44 caliber hole through it's right ear! I saw the boolit impact the hard rock desert floor about 75 yards beyond the deer and that chunk of lead kept moving out. That shot had been at 165-yards (verified with a range finder) and it it was a back to front shoot through.

Same story with my nilgai. At a 120-yards and broadside, the 265-grain boolit knocked this 700 pound antelope completely off it's feet. I fully expected a shoot through but I expected the animal to stay on it's feet at the shot.

Nighthunter... that is a very nice looking bullet!

45 2.1
06-23-2006, 10:21 PM
Michael-
Here are some things to look at.
0.434" diameter, 0.800" long, about 290 gr. with the rear crimp groove at 0.400".

357maximum
06-24-2006, 08:39 PM
Bob, that looks quite nice, so there we have it folks, a drawing to go with, when you all wanna start the BUY?

I like the three crimp groove, It would make it quite a versatile boolit, good job man, awesome.

Thank You Mr. 45 2.1

357maximum
06-24-2006, 09:42 PM
New thread started and soon to be stickied for the buy on the three crimp groove boolit.


"Big, Flat,and Fat (Four, Forty, Four) Starts Now"