Which is better?

[daschnoz]

Here's the deal - I would like to load some sub sonic, light weight "gallery" rounds for my 308WIN. I plan to use Unique.

... and now, the rest of the story - there are some groundhogs (a $h!t ton to be precise) around the office. It is located in an industrial park. I need to keep things quiet so as to not attract the attention of the local fuzz. I also want something that doesn't carry a bunch of momentum past the target. I tried traps, but the libtards in the office keep thwarting my attempts by closing my traps.

I have used Aguila 60gr SSS in the past, but they tend to go super sonic and tumble on the 95°+ days in the middle of summer, so I would like something with a bit more stability. My 308 has a 1:10 twist which should stabilize a short bollit to the point of absurdity.

I calculated the MV required to obtain (about) the same energy.
- 22LR - 60gr Aguila @ 950fps = 120ft/lbs

- 0.312" round ball - 50gr @ 950fps = 100ft/lbs
120ft/lbs puts this boolit at 1040fps - which is too close to super sonic to be sure it doesn't go over the edge.

- Lee 311-100-2R - 100gr @ 735fps = 120ft/lbs
Lowering the MV of the 100gr pill will keep the momentum down in the event of a miss. It might also give me the ballistics of a rainbow for a 50 yard shot.


With all of that said, what would be better:
- 0.312 round ball, about 50gr
- 0.312 pistol bollit, 100gr
(both will be resized to 0.309")

[AZ-Stew]

If you're in an industrial park, especially within city limits, I'd HIGHLY recommend that you contact city officials to find out whether shooting ANY firearm is legal in that area. One ricochet resulting in a broken window, damaged vehicle or, heaven forbid, an injured person, and you'll be looking at legal problems you don't even want to think about.

There are some pretty nifty and powerful air rifles available these days that may satisfy legal requirements and will substantially reduce the damage that can be done by a ricochet, since the pellet has very little mass and loses velocity/energy quickly. They're not without danger, but they're much less risk than a 50 - 100gr firearm bullet.

BTW, what's with the triode avatar?

Regards,

Stew

[Jack Stanley]

It seems like the city or the state DNR would be responsible for the critters they don't want you to put down . But if they won't man up to the responsibility I had a Beeman R-1 that would drive a superdome pellet through the thick side of a squirrel and out the other side to poke in and out holes in the siding of my shed forty yards out .

All that said , I'd use the bullet not the ball to do the deed . When I used round ball in my .308 yars ago accuracy seemed to open up past thirty . Bullet on the other hand was still very tight for a long way out . I think the reduced bullet might just be quieter .

Jack

[Houndog]

Try to find an old Winchester or Remington bolt action 22 rifle with a 26-28 inch barrell and use Eley or some other subsonic ammo. I've got an old Winchester and use that combo on groundhogs and ferel cats here on the farm. It just flat works and is as quiet as most supressed 22's I've ever been sround.

[TCLouis]

As others have said collateral damage or charges for discharging a firearm in the city limits may make a city groundhog safari more expensive that a guided hunt to an elk or deer farm.


With that warning,

Mossberg 44 or 144 and std velocity ammo is pretty quiet too, but like many other puny loads will ricochet like there is no tomorrow and very likely to be a poor killer.
I opt for the 30 cal round ball (will also ricochet also I imagine)

[Piedmont]

I'm with Hounddog. Long barrel .22 and use subsonic HPs. It will still sound like a gun though. If you have a very long centerfire you can beat the .22, at least in power. If you had something like a 31.5" Mosin Nagant or a 32" Trapdoor Springfield you could cook up a real sweet quiet load, perhaps with a very soft hollow point.

[daschnoz]

I have already taken all of your voiced concerns into account.

I'm not too worried about collateral damage since there are trees and an open field in the direction that I shoot. I purposely do not shoot in directions where collateral damage may occur. Also, I wait until after 6 (ish) on Friday evening after all of the area businesses have cleared out for the weekend, AND, I'm around at the back of my company's building. (Yes, the management knows that I am "taking care of the groundhog problem" - exactly how, is a mystery - at least that's the answer you're going to get if you ask).

Thanks guys. I may have to re-think this whole thing.

[Bob Krack]

I'm a thinkin the air rifle might make a good choice also.

The .312 round ball weighs right at 45 grains and is loads of fun to shoot! I've cast thousands of them.

Strictly from a shooting point of view, the handgun or an M-1 carbine boolit at 700 to 900 FPS would/should be fun to shoot and would certainly ruin a gophers day!

Bob

[randyrat]

I have already taken all of your voiced concerns into account.

I'm not too worried about collateral damage since there are trees and an open field in the direction that I shoot. I purposely do not shoot in directions where collateral damage may occur. Also, I wait until after 6 (ish) on Friday evening after all of the area businesses have cleared out for the weekend, AND, I'm around at the back of my company's building. (Yes, the management knows that I am "taking care of the groundhog problem" - exactly how, is a mystery - at least that's the answer you're going to get if you ask).

Thanks guys. I may have to re-think this whole thing. OHH come on, don't let them Groundhogs win.
I still would go with a good air rifle(22 cal) and at least kill enough to pay for the new Air rifle. Do a good job and they will pay you. Just be sure to remove the dead ones so there is no evidence.

[Bret4207]

Chamber adapter for 32 S+W Long out of a 308/30-06? Just a thought.

Check those local laws of discharge of a firearm. I've had to arrest a few folks who were "pretty sure" they were "more or less" within the law.

[Bass Ackward]

Save your small plastic water bottles and tape one over the end no matter what way you go. Even if the noise is audible, it will sound like something other than a shot to most folks.

[mroliver77]

I have played around some with "cats sneeze" loads. Heavy for caliber boolits with fast powder make the least noise. I have taken to filling a case to the neck with lead. I then drill a powder cavity down to the primer hole.!-3 gr bulls eye or redot, clays etc launch a boolit in an 06 case below the sound barrier. Pure lead is good for this and I flatten noses as flat as practical. As has been noted, know the laws and be discreet.
Jay

[daschnoz]

I'm pretty sure I would make lots of new friends if I were to get caught.

I want to stay away from "cat sneeze" loads (for this application). I don't want a pass through (or miss) to fly and roll too far. I would rather have a light load that will loose most of its energy quickly upon impact.

I didn't think about the chamber adapters, but that may be perfect. Thanks Bret. I already load for the 32ACP. 60gr Gold Dots would be perfect for the job. Thanks for the idea.

[GabbyM]

140 or 150 grain 30 cal. cast lead flat nose soft alloy around #8 to #10 BHN. Light load of Bullseye or Red Dot to keep it sub sonic. The soft alloy is to cut down on ricochet.

If you can get within 150 feet or so a “cut load” in a 12 gauge tumbles small critters well. I used to load 5 grains of Red Dot , paper filler , wad , ¼ oz shot , paper filler then crimp down. They go bloop. FYI many of the newer trap load powders will not burn at this low pressure. I never tried the cut loads on anything as big as a ground hog and do not know if you'd have adequate penetration.

[Tazman1602]

How about the .22 idea and some Aguila super colibri? Not much louder than an airgun and very effective at short range:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=295321&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=653

out of stock right now but if you sign up for email alerts Midway is great about letting you know when they're in.

Art

[mpmarty]

I used to go on varmint safari in the back alleys with a 22/250 loaded with speer frangible slugs over 2.5gr of RedDot. Quiet and effective. I used a Remington 788 with a long (dont remember how long) barrel.

[DLCTEX]

22 modified with Paco Kelly's hollow pointer to stop the bullet in the groundhog may be a good choice.

[acoilfld]

Try the .22 CCI CB loads
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=3&loadNo=0026
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=3&loadNo=0038

Very quiet - I have taken snowshoe hare and grouse with them - no problem.
They are quieter than a pellet gun

[acoilfld]

You can practice here:Fire:

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/game/default.htm :)

AC

[daschnoz]

You can practice here:Fire:

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/game/default.htm :)

AC

Well, that's 15 minutes of my life I'm not getting back. Thanks.

[Mk42gunner]

As long as it is legal to discharge firearms in the area; a long barreled .22 (26-28") and .22 Short Hollow Points. I haven't shot groundhogs with them, but I have killed a few truckloads of racoons with them. The bullet will stay in the carcass with either head or body shots. They were one of the rounds of choice when I was coon hunting and trapping when I was a kid. The other round we liked was a Stinger, bit loud for your situation.

Robert

[Russel Nash]

I must have done something wrong with shooting the nuisance racoons over at my mom's house.

I used Eley .22 subsonic ammo out of a rifle. One racoon I shot in the head was less than two feet from the muzzle.

Every single one of the racoons I have shot just start flopping and thrashing about and they sling blood everywhere. :-o Like on the house or on the garage or all over the sidewalk. :mad:

It kinda sucks trying to be discrete about it, at night, only to have unroll the garden hose and washing everything off.

It is amazing how big and fat those racoons are.

It is interesting to kinda see that puzzled look on another racoon's face when I guess they can kinda smell that one of their fellow racoons is dead. They can sense something is wrong, but their desire to get free easily accessible food overrides their instincts.

anywhooo.... getting back more on topic, be glad that the groundhogs are way out in a field somewhere. At least they won't be slinging blood everywhere.