22 Hornet

[randyrat]

OK I haven't been paying attention....What drove you all to the 22 Hornet. Is is the quietness, low powder use, less lead, fun? I've never shot one, never seen one.
They sound like a great Yote gun/load, light target, low recoil.
What am i missing?

[exile]

I have the same questions. A Handi-rifle in this caliber sounds good. Is it that it shoots cast boolits well?

exile

[Rocky Raab]

I don't shoot cast in mine, but I've been in love with the Hornet since my first one - in 1957.

It has all the advantages you wrote about, and yet kills all out of proportion to its physical size OR its paper ballistics. Coyote is about the largest critter I'd tackle with one, and even then I'd want a very stout bullet (for a Hornet). The discontinued Nosler 45 Solid Base is my choice for that chore; others are too frangible.

[Gohon]

It is simply a fun gun to shoot and load for. The 22 Hornet can be loaded down to rimfire subsonic levels for squirrels or up to the lower level of the 223 for coyotes. So on a day in the woods I can hunt squirrels and coyotes with the same gun and not have to change barrels or get a second gun. Sure the 223 can be loaded down but there are other factors to worry about with light loads in the 223 that aren't a factor in the 22 Hornet. Most guns for the 22 Hornet are light and easy to carry all day, it is cheap to load for and it doesn't seem to bother the neighbors down the road when they hear it, if they hear it. Some claim the Hornet has a short case life but I've got some cases that are into their 8th or 9th loading and no signs of giving up. Some claim it is easy to crush the case mouth when loading but again, I've never experience this even once. All one has to do is make sure the case mouth is sufficiently flared to accept the seated bullet and all is fine. My gun is a 1:16 twist but I think someone told me the Handi rifle is a 1:9 twist which means the Handi will handle heavier and longer bullets than my gun will. Other than being a single shot it kind of makes the Handi rifle a little more handy. Bottom line.........it is simply a fun gun to shoot and load for.

[six_gun]

I got my first Hornet barrel for my contender to shoot Hunter Pistol Silhouette with. It did that real good. My load for Hunter Pistol is 3.5gr of titegroup with a lyman 225450 bullet with a gas check. Velocity is about 1650fps and accuracy is one hole at 100 meters. With a Win 46gr hp and some 296 powder I get 2400fps and the same one hole at 100 yards and this is with a 10" barrel. I use a taco hold and a rifle scope in 4 to 12 power. Recoil is so light the scope dosen't hit my face.

I joked with my Game Warden buddies that it was my new elk gun. I will hit an eyeball at 100 yards with it. They laughed at me but agreeded that if it would do it on paper it could probably be done.

A friend of mine in Alaska said that the natives like to shoot seals on the ice with a Hornet because of the low noise and it gets the job done. The Air Force used to use it for a survival gun for b52 crews. If a 22 long rifle would make a good survival gun, a 22 hornet would be a little better.

Sixgun

[beagle]

I'd always wanted one and when a M77 came by I grabbed it. Accurate, cheap on lead and powder. Ammo is nothing to carry around and it's fairly quiet. I can shoot it in the back yard without the dogs and cats heading for high ground. With cast, it's great on backyard pests and has taken many blackbirds and even several pests of the feline persuasion. Recoil is non-existant and the gransdon loves it.

Makes a great farm gun to grab when a target presents itself./beagle

[Bullshop Junior]

OK I haven't been paying attention....What drove you all to the 22 Hornet. Is is the quietness, low powder use, less lead, fun? I've never shot one, never seen one.
They sound like a great Yote gun/load, light target, low recoil.
What am i missing?
A 22 Hornet in your gunrack!

[303Guy]

I've had so much fun with mine. My cases last forever but then I lube them (the loaded rounds) and don't resize at all (bolt gun). I shoot 55gr J-words at what seems to be above 2700fps (compressed Lil'Gun in R-P cases - for their volume). I have used 60gr J-words with equal success and accuracy. Mine has a 1-in-16 twist and a short magazine. I would prefer a single shot and faster twist. I have a suppressor on mine and with my powder charge, I need it.

The case necks are fragile but they can also be straightened - sometimes.

[DLCTEX]

I like my 77/22 for prairie dogs to 150 yds. as well as coyotes and other varmits. It is fun to shoot and cheap to load for. A pound of lead will make a pile of 45 gr. boolits.:mrgreen:

[Blammer]

I have 2, 22 hornets, one a BRNO and the other a Ruger M77. I've never found either to be quiet, actually to me they are just as loud as a 223.

I've found good accuracy with them, easy on powder, can load for a variety of things, from plinking loads for squirrel hunting to full house to make the crows into black mist. :)

Light, accurace and just plain fun.

[dk17hmr]

I sure like my hornet and bee with cast

3.3gr of Trailboss in the hornet with a 225415, no gascheck, lubed with a light coat of LLA than 2 good coats of JPW. Dont know the velocity but its not really loud and it does bring squirrels out of the top of oak trees.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/22hornetSquirrel.jpg

This wasnt really hunting but I did shoot it with a cast bullet. 25 yard shot, between the shoulder blades and out the front of the chest, bullet didnt really expand it was a water dropped bullet so it was hard and a squirrel isnt hard enough to make them expand. The rifle is a 22 Hornet loaded with a 225415, 56gr lubed and checked, about 3gr of Reddot, I dont know how fast it was going maybe 1500 or so but it is pretty accurate, and not extremely loud like the jacketed bullet loads I have for the rifle.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCN0339.jpg

I have been making my 225's out of 50/50 WW/Pure air cooled. They open up pretty good on p-dogs out of my 218 Bee at less than 2000fps.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/9-1.jpg

[JeffinNZ]

Mild to shoot and frugal on powder. I sold my BRNO years ago but only because it really didn't fit me well and I never shot so well with it.
I would buy another Hornet and 'K' it straight away. With the modern powders it is not far shy of .222 these days.

[archmaker]

One of my favorite things about it when I had one many moons ago, is remember those belt packages you would get crossman pellets in, the white one with a lid, held about 10 Hornet rounds pretty as you please.

Shoot a few cast with it, did okay, 10" Contender with a scope. It was a fun round to shoot and play with. Wish I had it back.

[rbuck351]

They are low recoil, you can see stuff go puff when you hit it, cheap to shoot and just plain fun. Mine are both K Hornets now. Some of the early Handis are slower twist. They can be a little fussy to load for.

[smoked turkey]

Good evening all:
Something archmaker said reminded me of something I did years ago with my NEA 22 Hornet. I used a primer only (no powder) to drive a 22 lead pellet into a bullet trap that I sat up in the basement. No noise, cheap, relatively accurate, and FUN. As I recall I pushed the pellet in backwards by hand. There are lots of reasons to own a hornet!

[canyon-ghost]

I shoot hunter's pistol silhouette with mine. They are easy on the lead supply, shoot great with a gas check to 100 meters and have very little recoil. The hornet has easy availability too.


Here's a photo, Contender single shot with a Leupold VX2 4-12 40mm riflescope

[dualsport]

Like the man said, fun and cheap to shoot, but I think it's one of those emotional decisions, not practical. The .223 Rem. is way more practical, will do almost anything a Hornet will, and brass is free. There's always good quality brass just laying around at the range I go to. Hard to beat free brass. You can get an H&R Super Light in either one, I believe. I have one of each, love 'em both. I think it would be a good idea for you to have both too. You should buy one, then order an accessory barrel for the other. Then you will be happy like me.

[exile]

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/22hornet.htm

I may start looking for a .22 Hornet in a Handi-rifle or a CZ-527. It is true that it is not a practical decision, just one made based on what you like, much like the .41 magnum I just purchased. Those that have them seem to like them though.

exile

[quasi]

One of the big selling points for Hornets is the cute rifles that are chambered for it like the Brno 465, Anshutz, Walther, Sako, ...

[dale2242]

10 "22 Hornet= The most accurate barrel I have for my Contender....dale

[DLCTEX]

This Hornet isn't quiet, but it's fun!

[Lloyd Smale]

i too have been a fan for years but never used cast. Mine gets a steady diet of honady 35vmaxs because it drives nails with that bullet and it doesnt get shot more then about 2 or 3 hundred rounds a year so it doesnt cost me much.
I don't shoot cast in mine, but I've been in love with the Hornet since my first one - in 1957.

It has all the advantages you wrote about, and yet kills all out of proportion to its physical size OR its paper ballistics. Coyote is about the largest critter I'd tackle with one, and even then I'd want a very stout bullet (for a Hornet). The discontinued Nosler 45 Solid Base is my choice for that chore; others are too frangible.

[303Guy]

10 "22 Hornet= The most accurate barrel I have for my Contender....dale This makes me wonder what it was that gave the hornet a bad rap for accuracy some time ago. It's not the cartridge or the gun. Was it sloppy chambering? Or a mismatch between magazine length and chamber length?

One thing about the hornet is that it is perfectly proportioned for use with Lil'Gun - a match made in heaven! (A tricky match, but a match just the same!)

[DLCTEX]

Both my Ruger 77/22 and Tarus require very short rounds. I can load them much longer for the Ruger if I single shot it.

[Charlie Sometimes]

The older ones have a slower twist (1:16 vs 1:14 vs 1:9) and tighter bores (223 vs 224) I think the change in bullet dimensions and powders gave them a bad rap. Everyone I know that had one years ago still does though. Fun to shoot, fairly quiet, good range for most targets (200 yd), good for predators or small game. Easy to load for, low powder consumption, shoot J-word or boolits equally well (wit htweaking)- just a plain, all-around cartridge. Not every application requires massive amounts of power, lead, or speed.

[barrabruce]

One of the big selling points for Hornets is the cute rifles that are chambered for it like the Brno 465, Anshutz, Walther, Sako, ...
Yep sure is.
Me 465 Bnro '58 is slick and lovely on the action and much better than the later model ones.
Maybe they need a few more thousands of rounds through them first.
Mine I got cheap covered in paint from a shed many years ago.
'Ol fox rifle shot out!!!
Was gunna rebarrell it but it still shoots those .22 magnum hollow points that most people would give away @ 1" at 100yrds.
Cost about $20 a case of 1000 or so. They didn't shoot to hot in .224 bores and in the 222 loaded up they would rip the jacket or trun into a grey mist!!!

They do vaporise still at 150 yrds and more.
I hit a piece PVCpipe at that range and the jacket was imbeded in it but didn't penetrate all the way throu.

Silly story...

Took me good 'ol thower and press to the range one day and started working up a load.
The bloke next to me was watching and came over so stick his nose in and smurk.
(I already knew that 1/2 up the neck was about 12 gnrs.absolute paper book max)
Cranked the thrower knob around a bit to throw a heavier charge and looked at the powder in the case.
Just up to the start of the neck.
Turned to the bloke still peering in the case and shook it a bit and haphazzardly said tipping a sprinkle out..Yeah that looks about right..pretty full.that''ll do.
Tipped it back in a took another crank at the adjuster ..saying Just a bit more ordda do it..A
And shot a measure of powder.
Loaded yer up.
Dipped another 4 empty shell necks in graphite and sized and primed them.

By this time the bloke had moved 2 benches down.

I didn't notice for a few rounds but I noticed out of my proiffial vision a couple of fellas gathering.

( I could here 'em speaking and looking 'n waiting to stop the lunatic....loads 'em like a 'ol roo shooter don't he..was the reply from the range officer I know well...Welll...he could..you can't ..he don't know ..how.......blahh blahh))
11.7 grns of 2400 in k hornet(bottom of the case neck) in "MY GUN".




No chrono but they "crack" as loud as a .222 .
The noise seems not to travel as far a distance thou.

Used mine for rabbits and foxes for years in settle areas.

The farmers didn't mind.
Not the precieved danger of a .222 .243 etc.
Don't know about the .17 cals preception thou.
Taken as more as :
Old fart cartridge.
Pretty much outdated and harmless girls gun.
Me grand father of father had one of them!!!...He used to shoot things around here with them.(snikker snicker)

Totally useless for shooting pigs ..but a .22 magnum 'll kill 'em just fine..powerfull those magnums.
:confused::confused:Errrgh


Strange that!!!

If under 200yrds or a bit less is good enough and you don't mind the stigma /preception Like I do it may open up options that other wise may not available to you.

Wish I could find some of those 'old seirra 40gnrs still. they shot real tight and consistant in it.
Those dear as poison hornady "plastic tipped miracoulous super fantabulous" wizz banger things arn't that great out of mine past 150 yrds.Not that Iv'e bought any more to try out after I used them up. The wind just plays havoc with the ligher 40-45 grainers past 150 ish or so.. that shooting rabbits in the head consistantly out the window of the ute gets a bit dicey with the spot light unless its pretty calm.

Ohh yeah I had some fun with 'er....
Me cases have been loaded that many times that the primer pockets go most of the time before the neck splits on the K hornet.Trimmed them once and never needed any more attention.
Maybe I should clean them:coffee:
Nahhh the graphite on the case necks that you only partrially size keeps then all just fine.
And those hard as hell neck just seem to grip the bullets just fine.
Who knows it may even shoot better if I worked on it!!!

Sorry for the long rant
Barra:redneck::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[songdog33]

I have always loved the hornet. I recently had a encore barrel made and chambered it for the .19 Calhoon hornet. Lots "O" fun!

[dale2242]

303guy, one of the reasons I bought the 22Hornet barrel was because TC said, at one time, the Hornet was their most accurate barrel. I also have a Ruger #3 in 22 Hornet....dale

[1Shirt]

Have a #3 Ruger, that I had K'd, and with 35 gr V-max over 12 gr. H-110, will take
p-dogs regularly out to 250. Just picked up a little new Sav. Single shot, that I will have K'd also. Regular hornet is great as is, but I like the looks of the K, and the increase in vol's make it well worth the effort. All of the lite loads listed for regular hornet work well in the K also. The #3 has a 1-16 however, and the longest blt it will shoot is the 225415, and that is not as accurate as the 225438 over about 7-8 gr. of 2400. Son in law has a contender with K-hor bbl, and that thing is LOUD if you are sitting on a bench next to him. Always thought the report of a regular hornet, and the K were about the same as a 222 or Bee. Am pretty well convinced that no gun cabinet is complete without a hornet of one denomination or another.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Charlie Sometimes]

Does anyone know if 22 Hornets were made in other actions? Any pump , lever, or semi autos?

Only three that I can think of, at the moment, in a rifle- falling/rolling block, bolt, and break-open; in handguns- revolver, bolt, and break-open.

Did I miss any?

[HORNET]

It's been done in falling blocks up to the Ruger #1 and I've seen a few on the Martini-Cadet action. Even saw a double-rifle once (Well, 5.6 Vierling, cutest little thing....). I'll have to remark that very loose chambers are not uncommon. My old #3 Ruger would accept .012" thick case necks if I could find any. Most of the brass I find goes about .007" which is what the dies seem to be made for so the brass gets worked a LOT.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I'll have to remark that very loose chambers are not uncommon. My old #3 Ruger would accept .012" thick case necks if I could find any. Most of the brass I find goes about .007" which is what the dies seem to be made for so the brass gets worked a LOT.

That's the problem with a lot of the old cartridges- specs on the cartridges, bores, and chambers differed too much back when they invented them, and between manufacturers. The 45 Colt is a good example.

Whatever you get, get a modern, new rifle, and that will eliviate a lot of issues.

[303Guy]

My hornet loading technique was to make a paper hand towel cup which was inserted into an unsized, fired case neck and the bullet seated into that, the edges trimmed off and the bullet and neck dipped into molten waxy-lube to 'glue' the bullet in place and to seal the case. It also lubed the bore and applied a protective coating to the inside of the suppressor. The bore never needed cleaning and never rusted even in cold and wet storage. The technique also lowered chamber pressure with Lil'Gun (which had to be compressed prior to inserting the paper cup), so much so that a heavy bullet is needed to make the powder burn consistently (lots of powder!) The paper cup aligns the bullet into the bore on firing. This because of an oversize chamber. Very accurate.

Oh yes .... I shoot .224 bullets down a .223 bore!

[303Guy]

I found these pics - this is how I do it.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-168F_edited.jpghttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-133F_edited.jpg

After trimming off the protruding 'petals', the bullet and neck gets dipped.

I also found these pics of fired bullets, a 60gr and 55gr Hornady spire point.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-580F_edited.jpg

The trick is to make that happen with cast and/or paper patched boolits.:roll:

[Dale53]

I have used the .22 Hornet a good bit, in the past. I had a couple of Hornet rifles and a 10" TC barrel. It shot good in all. My squirrel load was 3.0 grs of Unique behind a Lyman 225415 GC bullet. I never chronographed this load but believe it was in the 1400 fps range. The flat nose killed squirrels MUCH better than the .22 rimfire when I had to take body shots. The TC barrel would shoot reliable ½" groups at 50 yards.

I DID have problems with case life when shooting jacketed bullets. If you even SLIGHTLY "overloaded" the case the primer pockets opened up.

I ended up buying a nice, Ruger #3 that had been rechambered to .221 Fireball. That was only slightly more powerful than the .22 Hornet but the brass was MUCH stronger and longer lived. The .221 squirrel load is 4.0 grs of Unique. I ended up selling my Hornets and got a .221 Barrel for the TC. I much prefer the .221.

The power level of the Hornet is very practical here in the Midwest with small farms. It just makes more sense than a .220 Swift, as a for instance. It works well with cast and has adequate power for coyotes as well as ground hogs at the ranges we normally encounter them here in the Midwest. I just don't like the weak cases (section the head of a Hornet case and you'll see what I am talking about - there is just no metal there around the primer pocket).

FWIW
Dale53

[HORNET]

Dale,
Did you ever try any heavier cast (55+ grain) and get it to stabilize in that 16" twist Fireball? I've been thinking about re-chambering the old #3. BTW, I did open up primer pockets trying to get the RCBS 22-55-FP and Lyman 225462 to work out of the Hornet.

[Herb in Pa]

I'm currently on my 14th loading using WW Brass in my Hornet with no signs of it giving up the ghost yet, these are jacketed loads. I'm using Privi brass for my cast loads with the same good results. I'm shooting a 1730 Anschutz that locks up like a bank vault.

[303Guy]

What powders are you folks using in your hornets that open up primer pockets?

My hornet has a rough chamber - strange for an Anshutz, I think it may have been reamed out to clean up rust damage. Anyway, I have to lube loaded rounds or it will simply separate the head at one of the reamer marks. My cases last forever! As I've said before, I stabilize 60gr J- word spire points with ease in the 1-in-16 twist. Lil'Gun is the powder to use.

By the way, before K'ing your hornets, consider this, the standard hornet will out perform the k-hornet with Lil'Gun.

Standard hornet
55 GR. HDY SP Hodgdon Lil'Gun 12.0gr 2551fps 39,400 CUP 13.0gr 2652fps 42,900 CUP

K-hornet
55 GR. HDY SP Hodgdon H4198 11.5gr 2223fps 31,100 CUP 12.5C gr 2388fps 39,400 CUP
55 GR. HDY SP Hodgdon H4227 10.0gr 2315fps 43,400 CUP 11.0gr 2445fps 46,100 CUP
55 GR. No Lil'Gun listed for the k-hornet and 55gr. Pressures get too high!

Here's another surprise.

221 Fireball
55 GR. HDY SPSX Hodgdon Lil'Gun 13.0gr 2714fps 45,200 CUP 14.5gr 2877fps 49,800 CUP

[Dale53]

Hornet;
I had such good luck with the 225415 and 225438 bullets that I never tried anything heavier.

I was using 2400 when I had problems with primer pockets. There WAS no Lil'Gun when I had my Hornets.

After I had a chance to use the .221, I lost my interest in the Hornet. I really wasn't looking for more power but better cases - the .221 supplied a bit extra power with EXCELLENT brass. I formed some cases from .223 but when I could get .221's I quit - lot's of work that I didn't need to do.

Dale53

[Bass Ackward]

Hornet;
I had such good luck with the 225415 and 225438 bullets that I never tried anything heavier.

I was using 2400 when I had problems with primer pockets. There WAS no Lil'Gun when I had my Hornets.

After I had a chance to use the .221, I lost my interest in the Hornet. I really wasn't looking for more power but better cases - the .221 supplied a bit extra power with EXCELLENT brass. I formed some cases from .223 but when I could get .221's I quit - lot's of work that I didn't need to do.

Dale53


The Hornet was the only caliber to beat me into frustration. And it did it with lead in every platform and configuration. I owned 6 as I remember. I could work up a lead load (1/2" was my standard for 22 calibers) in the morning and 2 hours later it would be 1 1/2". Jacketed were much more consistent at grouping.

I still have a #3 that was converted to a K and then finally a Mashburn Bee and all that frustration left. The 224415 and 225438 work like a champ.

Without a need, I haven't tried a Hornet with modern day powders to see if that has improved any.

[felix]

Too bad we can't buy half power primers. ... felix

[beagle]

Yeah Felix, but SP primers do pretty good. Gave me my best accuracy in the Hornet./beagle

[HORNET]

303GUY, I was opening primer pockets up with IMR4227. I could get good groups at 50 yards but they wouldn't hold up when yardage started getting long. I hit case capacity limits with 4198 and RX7 and Lil Gun wasn't around yet. I tried WW680 and AA1680 and got up to levels that were way past any listing in the manuals with encouraging results but the same lack of repeatability that Bass mentions :???:. Said "Pffft" and went back to shoving 225438's with a case full of 4227. Not great results at 100 or 150 but useable for 'chuck hunting. If I want to send the heavies out fast now, I grab the .222 [smilie=1:.

[Charlie Sometimes]

After I had a chance to use the .221, I lost my interest in the Hornet. I really wasn't looking for more power but better cases - the .221 supplied a bit extra power with EXCELLENT brass. I formed some cases from .223 but when I could get .221's I quit - lot's of work that I didn't need to do.

I had a XP-100 back in the mid 70's chambered for the 221 Fireball- I killed crows (shot them in the head) at 200 yds with it, using a 4x scope. Deadly accurate with 55 gr. BTHP J-words.

I've considered moving to that round if I ever have case life troubles- so far this Hornet shoots very well, and I have not had any case problems.

How hard is it to find Fireball cases vs Hornet?

[Dale53]

I haven't had a problem getting cases. I also started with an XP-100. I later converted that to a bonafide Heavy Barrel Varminter in .222 (Ferris Pindell was the gunsmith). It was a genuine 1/4 minute rifle (and that was a LONG time ago).

Dale53

[hyoder]

Ditto the Hornet for Hunter's Pistol Silhouette.
Like Canyon-ghost I use the taco hold and shoot at 22 mag velocity w a 52 gr. boolit

[cbrick]

10 "22 Hornet= The most accurate barrel I have for my Contender....dale

What's the twist? The load? The boolit? Curious minds want to know. :coffee:

Rick

[303Guy]

.... If I want to send the heavies out fast now, I grab the .222 [smilie=1:.Undeniable logic! It I was still doing rimless cartridges I would go 222. I had a 223 mini-14. Loved that gun. It gave 222 performance with its short barrel but not the accuracy. Now, by choice and some strange affliction, I do only rimmed cases, preferably those with history (i.e. old). Even stranger, I want them all on Lee Enfield actions and based on the 303 Brit. I have a spare 22 barrel and a spare Lee Enfield action - watch this space!:D (It might be a Rimmed 220 Swift! Or a Rimmed 222/303. If I could figure out a way of feeding the hornet into a Lee Enfield I might just do that too!)

[HORNET]

Well, Sedgley built Hornets on Krag actions.....How about running .357 Max cases into a Fireball die for a rimmed case?

[45-70 Chevroner]

You guys make me feel light headed. After reading this thread you guys have almost convenced me that I need a new rifle. My brother had one many years ago bless his sole, he died in 2005 miss him a lot. The hornet will be my next new rifle.

Any one have a 21' TC barrel in 22 Hornet That they would like to sell.

[Charlie Sometimes]

There's the 225 Winchester- IIRC, it is a rimmed cartridge in the 220 Swift class.

[303Guy]

Well, Sedgley built Hornets on Krag actions.....How about running .357 Max cases into a Fireball die for a rimmed case?I've thought about that. Then there's using a 30-30 case to do the same thing. The 30-30 has more history and a larger rim.

There's the 225 Winchester- IIIRC, it is a rimmed cartridge in the 220 Swift class.I've never seen cases in my part of the world. There is a 222 Rimmed in my parts. Not sure what the parent case is.

But getting back to the hornet, it is undoubtedly a 'must have' in a small rifle! but my next one is going to be single shot. Single shots are actually faster to reload and aim then bolt action repeaters! Think about it - we are reloaders .... ! That makes us crazy and we won't insert a fresh cartridge until we've found the case we just dropped in the long grass!:bigsmyl2: I don't drop or lose cases anymore. I have a very reliable way of extracting the fired case before reloading but it involves lowering the gun, turning it on its side, holding my hand over the ejector port and opening the bolt. Single shots are faster!:wink:

[BCall]

225 Winchester was originally based off of the 30/30 case, with the rim turned down to fit '06 sized bolt faces. It uses the same shellholder as the 220 swift but is a step below it in velocity. I have a Handi-rifle barrel that was rechambered to 225 Win, and like it alot, but I have readily available brass. You could form it from 30/30 if you turned down the rim, but modern 225 brass is stronger I think. I'm going to have one rechambered in 219 zipper next though.

Everyone should have a hornet I think. I have 3.:D

The hornet and the 218 bee probably take up 60% of my rifle shooting. Small powder charges, easy on lead, what's not to like? Billy

[Charlie Sometimes]

225 Winchester was originally based off of the 30/30 case, with the rim turned down to fit '06 sized bolt faces. It uses the same shellholder as the 220 swift but is a step below it in velocity.

Thanks Billy! I didn't know all of that, but knew about the velocity. You see a few now and then at gun shows. Nothing I need, though. I had a 22-250 once- very accurate, but LOUD! I like the 22 Hornet, and 221 Fireball class the best. Much quieter, and easier on the components budget.


Single shots are actually faster to reload and aim than bolt action repeaters! Think about it - we are reloaders .... ! That makes us crazy and we won't insert a fresh cartridge until we've found the case we just dropped in the long grass!

That is why I own only 4 semi-auto firearms- two of which are 22 LR. They throw brass and I have to fight the urge to spot it or look for it before I fire the next round! Lever actions are almost as bad, but easier to predict where the brass lands due to the effort applied to the lever.
The majority of my rifles are bolt action because I reload! :grin:

I think you could use the 22/30-30 wildcat in an Enfield- the 303 British is close to that head size, I think. That sounds like a fun project.

[303Guy]

From Steves Pages. (Worth visiting).

http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/cd225winchester.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/cd3030winchester.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/cd220swift.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/cd303british.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/cd22303varmintr.jpg

You can see who the creator of the 6mm Lee (parent case of the 220Swift) and the 303 British was.:roll:

(Hah! Got the pics fixed!)

[303Guy]

Are you able to go into Steve's Pages?

[randyrat]

There's the 225 Winchester- IIRC, it is a rimmed cartridge in the 220 Swift class. I just seen one yesterday made by Savage. It's just under the 220 swift. Nice rifle though. I looked up the specs and they are slightly different, and of course the 225 win is a rimmed cartridge. 303guy would be a perfect canidate for a 225 win.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Yea, I got to the links you posted once the thread updates were sent last night.
There was more differences in cartridge head size than I thought.
They are all pretty close, though.
Bound to be a way to remedy any of the short comings- depending on what you want.

You got them fixed!
Deleted my previous post- now irrelevant!

[303Guy]

I got the pics fixed in my earlier post. If you have a look at the 220 Swift case, you see that the measurement is taken a bit away from the rim. It is basically the equivalent of what Winchester did with the 30-30 case to create the 225.

[wistlepig1]

I have a Savage that shoots real well with J-words BUT with Lyman 438's not well at all. I use a 34 HP bullit from Midsouth and at 100 yds you can cover 5 shots with a nickle but with casts I need a tarp to cover the "group". I have tried fast powders, slow powders and pixie dust powders, with no luck. I have used SR primers, SP primers and come to a place that "use J-words" and hit what you aim at!

With that said, get a Hornet and you too will see why people love the little "beasT".

[DLCTEX]

I loaded some Hornet rounds with the 225-348 Lyman last evening for testing, hopefully today, if the rain holds off. I loaded using SR 4759, 7.5 and 8 gr. and fired a couple shots each at 25 yds in the back yard. Looked good at that range. Did the same using Red Dot, 3.5 gr. Very mild. I was surprised at how full the case was with the 4759, all the way to the base of the boolit with 8 gr. I am much more comfortable with it than the RD due to the impossibility of getting a double charge. With RD it's hard to see the powder in the case even under a bright light.

[cbrick]

I loaded some Hornet rounds with the 225-348 Lyman last evening for testing, hopefully today, if the rain holds off. I loaded using SR 4759, 7.5 and 8 gr. and fired a couple shots each at 25 yds in the back yard. Looked good at that range.

It's a very small world, great minds must really think alike. Last night I loaded ten 22 Hornet test rounds with 8.0 gr 4759 and the Lyman 225438. I can't get to the range for probably a week so I would be very interested in hearing your results.

Rick

[Kraschenbirn]

Currently, my only Hornet is a Ruger #3 but, so far as I'm concerned, here in the Illinois flatlands it's a "Must Have" caliber for varminting/pest shooting. Most farmers...even those who hunt/shoot...are rather hinky about letting someone hunt their land with a "high-power rifle" but most have little or no problem with "small bores" like the Hornet or the .17 HMR or, even, the old .221 Rem.

Bill

[dualsport]

I've read many posts saying Trailboss and small pistol primers work great in Hornets. Is it good enough that I should start looking for a .lb of Trailboss? I have the primers, and a variety of other powders, been using 2400.

[cbrick]

I tried TB and the groups were terrible, a five shot group could be covered up with 5 cents as long as you used pennies and two targets side by side to collect up all the shots. In a 10" Contender I couldn't get the velocity up to 1000 fps with 45 gr boolits.

I called Hodgdon about it and they laughed, said that you couldn't get enough TB in a Hornet case and it wouldn't work. It didn't!

If you try it and it works let me know what you did that I didn't.

Rick

[Wicky]

I have a Sako 78 shoots like a dream - j words only - I have a mold but never used it, one day.
I use 45 semi points with win 680 - yes I still have some. Squirreled away a couple of tins and you get a lot of loads from a tin in the hornet.
I used to use it on rabbits 'til the drought and the calici virus all but wiped them out. Haven't seen a rabbit around here for about 10 odd years.
I use it for roo's occasionally but not too often any more.
It is one of the cartridges every one should have IMHO.

[DLCTEX]

The weather wasn't conducive to shooting yesterday, so I loaded more test rounds with the 225348 using Red Dot, Green Dot, 231, 2400, Unique, and Sr 7625. I fired a couple from each loading to check for pressure, then loaded ten rounds of each. With the current weather pattern I don't know when I'll get to shoot them for grouping. I will say that 231 is a pain to weigh out those tiny 3 gr. charges. If it doesn't meter well I probably wouldn't use it much even if it proved to be the best. I need an indoor 50 yd., no 100 yd. range.:D

[Mugs]

Try 4.5 grs. 231. I've had excellent results with that load and the RCBS 22-055, 1640 fps. from a 12" TC. Will stay around 1 1/2" at 100 yrds. Don't have any problems with metering from my powder measures.

Rick
How is the LASC range handleing all the rain?

Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[DLCTEX]

Quote:Try 4.5 grs. 231.
Any idea what the velocity is?

[Mugs]

1640 fps.
Mugs

[DLCTEX]

Ok Mugs, I trudged through the sleet and snow and loaded 21 rounds with 4.5 gr of 231. Now I need a weather break, but it doesn't look likely for 10 days or more. We Texans like moisture but prefer it in liquid form.:p

[wistlepig1]

DLCTEX, blame it on the gound hogs, he saw his shadow. If it make you feel any better its going to be 2 tonite, snowing, muddy at the range for a month and ON Tuesay I used my Hornet to make sure 18 of the little rat bast**ds will not see their shodows next year!:bigsmyl2:

[DLCTEX]

We got down to 14 last night with light snow. We don't have any groundhogs to take it out on and their cousins, the mighty prairie dog, wasn't sticking his head out yesterday. I know this because I had to make a call in the country past a small dog town and tried for an opportunity to test a round or two, no takers.

[dualsport]

My post #65 was a real brain fart! I said Trailboss but was thinking of LilGun. I haven't read about anyone using TB in the Hornet. Anyway, it's a good wake up call for me to be paying attention when citing load info. Could be problematic.

[303Guy]

Lil'Gun is great stuff in the hornet. It likes heavier boolits or tight neck crimping. I use Fed SR primers. These are quite mild primers I believe. Lil'Gun might not work as well at lighter load levels. Only one way to find out. Chamber pressure with Lil'Gun is quite low so boolit fit may be more important than with faster powders.

[Bert2368]

I did try Trail Boss in the hornet... 3.2 gr with some 225438 GC boolits cast 40+ years ago and lubed with old NRA formula found in my dad's junk box. It didn't work spectacularly well, but it worked- I may try it again with the plain based boolits from Bullshop. The starting load came from someone here, don't remember who.

I'll look for the target.

[Bert2368]

Here's the target from the trail boss experiment:

http://emob559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-5.jpg

[Bullshop]

Try some of them PB boolits they are working really good for me.
BIC/BS

[dualsport]

WHAT!? Don't tell me that, I just bought 3,000 .22 gas checks! I want a 200 yd. squirrel load for my Vanguard .223, gonna start with the Bator and old Lyman 224450, the pointy spire point, both with at least a 30 bhn. But just in case, could you expound on that pb stuff a little more?

[Bert2368]

Dualsport- Where and what kind of squirrels do you hunt from 200 yards? I've never shot one past 50 for some reason.

Bullshop, what powders are you using for rifle loads with those PB Hornet bullets?

[dualsport]

Ground squirrels, I think some people call them gophers, or squeaks. The shooting is usually in some farmer's alfalfa field, they want them gone because of the holes they dig. Cattle grazing type country also. Billions of them in NorCal and Oregon. Do a search on 'Belding Squirrels'. I think I got that right. Or 'squirrel hunting' in California/Oregon. They are shot as pests, not for food(plague). 200 yds. is not a long shot on these by any means. Squeak shooters claim 'confirmed kills' at over 500 yds. In a good spot you may take several hundred shots in one morning.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Lil' Gun works great for me in my Ruger- max or near max loads even with the cast boolits and a good lube.
It seems to like the 45 to 55 gr. range best, with the 45 to 48 gr. being the best shooters, so far.

"Ground squirrels" are chipmunks in my area. Groundhogs are wood chucks- they are hunted for the same reasons around here- cattle/horse steps in the hole and break leg, etc., or so the reasoning goes. You can eat these- but they are greasy, like 'possum, 'coon, etc. I've seen these buggers go 30 lbs. or better- if you can shoot one and collect it without blowing it to smithereens! Just like deer, they have "Biggest Groundhog" contests at some gun shops around here throughout the summer months starting in June. Fun shooting, and makes for a good Saturday, on a hillside, under a shade tree somewhere when it's hot.

I think the Hornet is easily good for anything out to 220 yds. (PBR) with a well placed shot on larger sized game (i.e.- coyote, fox, ground hogs, etc.) and the right bullet/boolit. The furthest I ever shot a "whistlepig" was 800 yd. with a 22-250 Remington 700 Varmint Special, Weaver T10 scope with fine cross hair, Harris Bipod from the sitting position. One shot, one kill- using a Sierra 55 gr. BTSP J-word.

[dualsport]

800 YARDS!! Now that is fine shootin'! I bet you jumped up and down a bit over that one. If you've ever seen the magazine 'Varmint Hunter' there's a section with pictures of long shots, gets you membership in a 'club'. At 800 yds. I'd need a mortar. The Belding ground squirrel is a true squirrel, bit smaller than a Western Gray Squirrel. We call chipmunks chipmunks! You know, stripes on their backs, little fellas, like Alvin and the Chipmunks. Don't know why, but I wouldn't want to shoot one, they're native in the Sierra Nevada range. I don't go too hard on the tree squirrels either, but I'm merciless on squeaks. Funny how we'll smoke one varmint all day and give another a pass.

[canyon-ghost]

OK I haven't been paying attention....What drove you all to the 22 Hornet. Is is the quietness, low powder use, less lead, fun? I've never shot one, never seen one.


I started shooting silhouette with the guys, 22 Hornet is easy to start reloading and casting. It just naturally follows that it's cheap on lead and brass. The 22 hornet shoots the Lyman 225438 45 grain gc bullet really good in my Contender pistol.

[DLCTEX]

We had a beautiful day yesterday so I got to try my hornet loads. The clear winner was 3 gr. 231 behind the 225-438, with 8 gr, 2400 a close second. With 100 rounds fired using 6 different powders there was no leading at all. The lube is 50/50 with a little carnuba added. It left a nice lube star on the muzzle. I came home and loaded a couple rounds with 8.5 gr 2400 and loosened the primer pockets (Win. brass), so that's a no go. I found That I had shot up all the 4.5 gr. 231 loads when I was shooting from the truck the other day when it was hard to tell where the boolits were hitting shooting at rocks in a cut bank. I loaded more of them to bench them and see how they compare to the 3 gr. loading. Another front came through tis evening, so we'll see about tomorrow afternoon, buts it's windy outside as I post this, so it's doubtful.

[Bert2368]

Last fall when I wanted to try cast in the Hornet, Charlie Sometimes very generously helped me out with a variety of boolit samples. The 225438 were the only ones I got to before the weather and being behind on construction put my reloading on hold...

I tried W231 and gas checked 225438, but started higher than DLCTEX:

3.3 gr.
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-8.jpg

3.5gr
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-7.jpg

3.7gr
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-9.jpg

3.9gr
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-10.jpg

And this is the same CZ-527 lux with j bullets- 45gr Winchester JHP and 10gr W-296
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-6.jpg

[Charlie Sometimes]

800 YARDS!! Now that is fine shootin'! I bet you jumped up and down a bit over that one.

The Belding ground squirrel is a true squirrel, bit smaller than a Western Gray Squirrel. We call chipmunks chipmunks! You know, stripes on their backs, little fellas, like Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Don't know why, but I wouldn't want to shoot one, they're native in the Sierra Nevada range. I don't go too hard on the tree squirrels either, but I'm merciless on squeaks. Funny how we'll smoke one varmint all day and give another a pass.

Yep, got a little excited- after I figured out how far it was exactly. I had to get in my truck and drive out there. Of course, I knew that I could hit it- been working up to it for a while, little by little. Didn't have laser range finders back then, and I don't have that rifle anymore. Ran out of places to "stretch the barrel" and got bored/disgusted with it. Kick me now- I've been kicking myself ever since I traded it off. :groner:

Yep, chipmunks. Alvin and the bunch are good pellet gun targets for the kids to practice on- their population spikes periodically and that is when it is good fun.

Tree squirrels (Red, Gray, Fox) are good eatin', too! Unless, they been feeding a lot on pine seeds. Then they taste like turpentine- yuck! There are Flying, Black, and "Fairy Dittles" (stubby, mean, little red squirrel) too. But they don't have seasons, IIRC.

Would be fun with the Hornet, too.

[Charlie Sometimes]

Last fall when I wanted to try cast in the Hornet, Charlie Sometimes very generously helped me out with a variety of boolit samples. The 225438 were the only ones I got to before the weather and being behind on construction put my reloading on hold...

I tried W231 and gas checked 225438, but started higher than DLCTEX.

Looks like the groups are getting bigger the faster you are pushing them. Are you going to try them with W-296? Might work. That's a fine group with the 45gr Winchester JHP and 10gr W-296 load. I'm going to have to look W-296 and W-231 up and look at the pressures and compare to the Lil' Gun loads. May be a correlation? If I like what I see, I might have to invest in a couple of W powders to try them! :groner:

[wistlepig1]

800 YARDS!! Now that is fine shootin'! I bet you jumped up and down a bit over that one. If you've ever seen the magazine 'Varmint Hunter' there's a section with pictures of long shots, gets you membership in a 'club'. At 800 yds. I'd need a mortar. The Belding ground squirrel is a true squirrel, bit smaller than a Western Gray Squirrel. We call chipmunks chipmunks! You know, stripes on their backs, little fellas, like Alvin and the Chipmunks. Don't know why, but I wouldn't want to shoot one, they're native in the Sierra Nevada range. I don't go too hard on the tree squirrels either, but I'm merciless on squeaks. Funny how we'll smoke one varmint all day and give another a pass.


800 yds, WOW. my best is 440 yds with a 22-250 and that was a little luck! The other day I did put dirt on one at 680yds with a 243 but no joy:Fire:

I will whacks as may Prairie Dog as I can but I have a tree squirrel that comes to visit me every day, sits in my lap and eats out of my hand. Some we call furie rats, others friends.

Today I got to the range before the snow. I tested the my 438 loads, 8.2- 8.6 LiLgun and again the patterns increased as I went up(50yds). 7.9 grs is the best at 50yds and anymore ,things go downhill fast. When I first stated out I was using My J-word load at 12.8 grs of LiLGun and you needed a trap to cove a 5 shot "group". I think I will goto 231 next to see what happens.[smilie=2:

[dualsport]

Spring is coming, it's time to load up a thousand or so. I'll be ready when they come out of the ground from hibernation. Mostly .223s, some cast and some store bought. I laid in a good supply of bulk .224 bullets a while back. Also gonna shoot the Bator and the old Ideal 224450, I like that one. Oven HT and it goes fast ok. Have two Hornets left, a H&R with sights that's fun to shoot, and a Savage M40 single shot. That sucker shoots better than I do, all I can ask. I also use rimfires if I can get close enough. Sometimes you can walk up a field and they pop out at pistol range, that's when a 10-22 is fun. The little buggars are cannibals!

[wistlepig1]

Spring is coming, it's time to load up a thousand or so. I'll be ready when they come out of the ground from hibernation. Mostly .223s, some cast and some store bought. I laid in a good supply of bulk .224 bullets a while back. Also gonna shoot the Bator and the old Ideal 224450, I like that one. Oven HT and it goes fast ok. Have two Hornets left, a H&R with sights that's fun to shoot, and a Savage M40 single shot. That sucker shoots better than I do, all I can ask. I also use rimfires if I can get close enough. Sometimes you can walk up a field and they pop out at pistol range, that's when a 10-22 is fun. The little buggars are cannibals!

Don't you just love your Model 40, I know I do within it's range class for P.D.'s.

[303Guy]

... but I have a tree squirrel that comes to visit me every day, sits in my lap and eats out of my hand.I have a soft spot for friendly little beasts too. In my parts, our 'wild' ducks will come tapping on our door for bread and if the door is open they will come right in! I can't shoot a duck.:-?

[leftiye]

So, wring it's neck? (them ducks is good eatin')

[Old_Dog]

My first Hornet was a 340 Savage which shot ok considering I could not afford a scope for it and only used the factory open sights. The next one was a #3 Ruger which caused me more grief and aggravation than any other gun that I have ever owned. I could not get it to shoot a group under 2" no mater what I tried. I would give it to different people to see if they could get it to shoot and no one could. After 30 years I gave up on it and traded it off swearing I would never own another Hornet. Then a little CZ followed me home from the gun shop and rapidly became the new love of my life.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f167/lh7588/DSC01817.jpg

[wistlepig1]

Old Dog, My first Hornet was a Win. I think Model54, it had a 223 barrel and if you use the right ammo it was ok. Then it started to have a head space problem and I gave it to a family member that wanted as a wall hanger. I sure missed that old gun and when Savage came out with the Model 40, it jumped into my truck, so I had to take it home. Now I have a new love, for shooting around outbuilding, farms, and stock, where the range is 100-175 yds it is murder on Pairie Dogs. I have the same luck with it as you do with your CZ. I shoot a 34 gr HP over 12.8 grs of LiLgun. I would use more but the Win cases I have willnot hold anymore, and SP primers.:drinks:

[waco]

very nice for a hornet!
i have a cz527 in .221 fireball
love that gun!

[303Guy]

Then a little CZ followed me home from the gun shop and rapidly became the new love of my life.I can see why!


I shoot a 34 gr HP over 12.8 grs of LiLgun. I would use more but the Win cases I have willnot hold anymore, ...Lil'Gun is compressible - very compressible! I made a punch for compressing the powder to a depth that would accept the bullets I was using without pushing them back out and I wasn't sizing the necks. BUT, I needed the extra powder to get consistant burn without neck tension. (But was it ever a powerful hornet load!)

[Bert2368]

And they're kind of pretty, once you get used to that darn single stack magazine...

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/P6180002.jpg

[Charlie Sometimes]

I don't like that stock shape/profile on the CZ, either. Too European for me. Hiding the clip would be nicer. I guess you could fit one with a better stock easy enough. I'm looking into the 221 Fire Ball next- might be serious competition with my Hornet in which is my favorite (if a good shooter). I like that round, too.

When the weather breaks (I think it's broken now- too much snow! A foot deep in the driveway right now.), I've got a lot of loads to try out now- especially with my Hornet. Gonna give 303Guy's load suggestions a test fire eventually, too.

Just looking at catalog prices of 22 LR ammo- definitely cheaper to cast, reload, and shoot the Hornet now, than to shoot rimfires! $30 to $50 for a brick of 500 is excessive, IMHO, and I am well stocked so I don't really need any.

The ducks will do that up here, too. Just stop feeding them and they will go away. I once started feeding three domestic ducks, and ended up with 60+ wild and domestic coming to the back door regularly. They are awfully greasy to eat, all dark meat, too, IIRC. I t will give you the "skitters" if you eat too much of it at once, too! :lol:

[Bert2368]

The euro stock on the one in the pic is great for iron sights- They have an "American" stock version that works better for scope, and looks more like we expect. Also a manlicher stocked version.

There's a guy who specializes in altering the trigger guard/mag well and magazines to flush fit, check this out:

http://www.rvbprecision.com/shooting/cz-527-rifle-magazine-conversion.html

http://images25.fotki.com/v954/photos/3/36012/166041/PB210007-vi.jpg

http://images106.fotki.com/v504/photos/3/36012/166041/P1010003-vi.jpg

And check out James Calhoon bullets. He's WAY into hot rodding the CZ-527 and making jacketed Hornet varmint bullets.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/

He makes a snap in loading tray for using the CZ-527 as a single shot, and doing away with the magazine altogether.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/images/follower_2.jpg

[303Guy]

All this talk about hornets is getting my interest up! I once considered paper patching for mine then realized that patch such a tiny boolit aint gonna be easy. then thismorning - just for fun - I ran some figures through JBM Balistic Calculations and found that a reasonably easy to cast 63gr smooth sided boolit will actually stabilize in my rifle's 1-in-16 twist. So, scratch paper patching for it. I'm gonna try plain cast smooth sides seated in my regular paper cup trick. The worst it can do is not work! Won't know until I try it. ;)

The last time I used my hornet I remembered why I was so impressed with its performance and accuracy!

[wistlepig1]

303, when you get some test results I would be interested in the details because I have had sorry results with the little 438's in my Hornet.

Today I loaded some 52 gr HP J-words and if we don't get to much snow tonite, I will see if I can introduce them to a Yote or 2 Monday.[smilie=w:

[303Guy]

I found the mold and if I give it a small hollow nose it weighs in at about 62gr. I've got the melting pot on the stove and hope to cast enough for testing. I'll test 'em as soon as I can! (I've got some 303 Brit PP loads to test as well).

I got very satisfactory results with Sierra's 50gr Blitz and with Hornady's 55gr spire-point w/c's and with their 60gr spire-point w/c's. The 60grainers cost more and had a slightly shorter point blank range (which would hardly be a consideration) so I went with the 55grainers. (There was nothing wrong with the terminal performance of any of those!) My PBR with the 55grainers was 175yds and that was for magpie size targets.

[303Guy]

Well, I did one test into my firing tube. Here is the result.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-625F.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-627F.jpg

I forgot that the velocity was going to be just a tad higher than the 303 Brit loads I've been testing with the same alloy.:mrgreen:

There were a few leadm flakes in the bore. Those are actually visible on the cleaning wad next to the boolit fragments (three spots close together) but the camera does not capture them like the eye sees.:? I used 13gr Lil'Gun behind that 62gr boolit which was knurled and seated in paper hand towel then soaked in molten waxy-lube (my normal hornet loading technique). Case was R-P. Pressure was high enough to expect consistant burn. The same load in a Remington case will open the primer pocket!. The casting session itself did not go well.:cry:

[steg]

I have a Handi in 22 Hornet, Havent hand-loaded for it yet, allways wanted one since I was a kid. As far as the noise goes, it's pretty loud with the factory ammo.

[Bret4207]

Funny I should just spot this thread. While I have a Win 43 in 218 Bee, a contemporary of the Hornet, I've always wanted an actual Hornet. The dream gun is a minty Savage 23 Hornet, but alas and alon, finances and rarity prevent me from acquiring such a fine rifle. But, just the other day I spotted a truly mint Savage 340 Deluxe Hornet. I may just have to see if I can wrangle some sort of a payment schedule!

[Herb in Pa]

I'm starting to experiment with Reloader 7 in the Hornet (1730 HB Annie), these groups were shot with .224" diameter slugs, if it ever stops snowing I"ll try them @.225". I started @10.0 grains and worked up in .3 increments to 11.8. Looks like some promise here.

[wistlepig1]

Herb, what range were they shot at? Looks like your load is comming along! I know what you mean about the ****** snow, range day (mud Day) here Tuesday--I hope.

[DLCTEX]

Herb: Which boolit and SR or SP primer? What alloy? Details please.

[Herb in Pa]

Lyman 225438, wheelweight+a little babbit,small pistol primer, range was only 50 yards. Perhaps I can get to the range this weekend......we had 48" of snow last month, but then again if one traveled another 70 miles southeast to Garret County Maryland they had a total of near 21 feet for the year!

[ss30378]

My experience with the hornet came in the version of the K-hornet out of a custom 77/22 with all the bells and whistles (muzzle brake included) 35 grain vmax at over 3500 fps and accurate enough to make head shots on coyotes past 200 yards. No recoil barely any powder and not too much noise. Hmm its time to get a K now. Dang i hate shooting forums!

[303Guy]

Hmm its time to get a K now.Hah! Here's a shocker. The standard hornet will out perform the k-hornet with Lil'Gun and heavier bullets. Reason is that Lil'Gun is weird! Shape of case, powder compression effects, who knows? But it makes it a lot of fun.:D


... 35 grain vmax at over 3500 fps and accurate enough to make head shots on coyotes past 200 yards.Holy cow! :holysheep Nothing wrong with that!

[303Guy]

I've mentioned seating bullets in a paper cup over compressed Lil'Gun. Well, here's how.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-168F_edited.jpg

Here's how I get the paper cup in.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-133F_edited.jpg

The powder is compressed with a punch that fits into the loading press, to a depth that the cup is to be seated to and the bullet seated firmly onto the powder. The 'petals' then get cut of with a fired 223 case over the bullet. The bullet and neck is then dipped into molten 'waxy-lube' to soak into the paper cup. Once cooled, the excess is wiped off the exposed bullet. Ready to fire!:Fire:

Now, as part of my penitence for using J-words, I shall develope a cast boolit to duplicate the performance the J-words gave!:cbpour:

[ss30378]

Actually lil gun was used in both the standard chamber and the k chanber and the improved version won in in that rifle, by 200fps and was more accurate. I only got to shoot it in the improved version though.

[32ideal]

303guy, hope you don't mind my borrowing and trying your fantastic idea :idea:, REALLY like your paper patch on the J-Buulet, going to try it with my 22 K-Hornet and some undersize .222" diameter (for 22 Jet?) cast 43gr boolits I got in a trade years ago, your seater die is a real work of art. :mrgreen:
Thanks for showing this Very Unique loading idea/innovation to the forum,
32ideal



I've mentioned seating bullets in a paper cup over compressed Lil'Gun. Well, here's how.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-168F_edited.jpg

Here's how I get the paper cup in.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-133F_edited.jpg

The powder is compressed with a punch that fits into the loading press, to a depth that the cup is to be seated to and the bullet seated firmly onto the powder. The 'petals' then get cut of with a fired 223 case over the bullet. The bullet and neck is then dipped into molten 'waxy-lube' to soak into the paper cup. Once cooled, the excess is wiped off the exposed bullet. Ready to fire!:Fire:

Now, as part of my penitence for using J-words, I shall develope a cast boolit to duplicate the performance the J-words gave!:cbpour:

[303Guy]

Actually lil gun was used in both the standard chamber and the k chanber and the improved version won in in that rifle, by 200fps and was more accurate.Mmmm .... interesting. I am going by what I get (± 2725fps with 55gr SP's) and what Hodgdon list for both, giving pressures. I am using high capacity R-P cases. I wonder what effect the shoulder has on Lil'Gun in the K-hornet? My rifle's chamber is really bad so I have considered the K-hornet although I would use the version that keeps the full neck length. Maybe I'll just continue using it as is.

32ideal, it takes a little longer at first but once the bits are in place it's not that bad. Cases last forever, by the way. I had one reject case with insipient head separation (damage from another rifle) get back into the mix and this case got reloaded several times before I found it again! BUT, there's a trick to it. The loaded cases must be lubed! Not dripping with oil but with enough lube to prevent case to chamber binding. Too little lube, and the case will stretch. Too much and ... well ... actually ... I haven't found any problem with too much (I just don't use too much). Never allow lube to flow into the bore - obviously. I had to say that to cover myself.:roll: (It'll cause bore ringing for sure:!:). I use STP as a case lube. I should mention that I would trim the case mouth's only just enough to square them and then only when they reach a near max length. Case elongation would stop when the case mouth reached the end of the chamber, at which point, the cases would head-space on the case mouth. Because the chamber actually has a chamfer leade into the the throat, there would be a slight tapering in of the case mouth. Leave this taper alone and just chamfer the mouth internally enough to not cut the paper cup. Bolt closure will be quite firm.

[32ideal]

Nice of you to respond to my message 303Guy, wondered if you sized the case necks or just use them as fired to insert the bullets and patch’s into the case neck or maybe a special oversize expander!
As you can tell this has caught my fancy and will be in the pole barn on the lathe and mill as soon as the temp gets into the 40's, looks like the end of the week may warm up enough.
Thanks again,
32ideal

[Bert2368]

It was over 40 F. today! So I got out and tried W-231 with Bullshop's plain based Hornet boolits.

The best results were with the flat point 50 gr (looks like it's a 225415 with the gascheck milled off) and 3.1 gr. I did the same powder weights with their round nose, but didn't get any groups worth shareing That's 1/2" grid on the target.

More tommorow if I can find the &$@#! small primer seating parts for my press- I'll start at 3.0 and work up by 1/10's of a grain next time.

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss31/Bert2368/photo-18.jpg

[Dale53]

Bert2368;
That 3.1 load looks GOOD!. Now try it at 100 yards with, say, five, five shot groups and see what it'll really do. I'll bet it does well.

I had a TC .22 Hornet 10" pistol barrel and it did ½" groups at 50 yards off sand bags with a two powered pistol scope with 3.0 grs of Unique. It made a dandy squirrel pistol. I sold it and bought a .221 Fire Ball 10" barrel and it does as well with 4.0 grs of Unique (I like the stronger brass that the .221 offers compared to the Hornet). The Hornet occupies a really useful velocity "niche" but it suffers from weak brass. There is just no metal between the primer pocket and the case wall. One or two tenths too much powder and you open the primer pockets. Of course, that was never a problem with cast bullets just full velocity loads with jacketed bullets. In spite of my case troubles, I still have a fondness for the Hornet.

FWIW
Dale53

[303Guy]

... wondered if you sized the case necks or just use them as fired to insert the bullets and patch’s into the case neck or maybe a special oversize expander! I load them up as fired. I do have an oversize expander to open up a sized neck to the 'as fired' size. That's needed for unfired cases or cases fired in another rifle and also for removing dings that do occur. The brass really is fragile!:roll:

I did experience unreliable feeding at times in the early days but once I got my act together it was plain sailing to the point that I no longer tested any loaded rounds in the rifle chamber.

[32ideal]

Thanks again 303Guy, went out to the pole barn this morning but it was only about 25 degrees so will wait until tomorrow and try again to make up a die! Did you use a chamber reamer to form you cavity for the Hornet paper patch cross cut die?

Any way i sure am pleased to get this new idea and try it out, will probably try it in other calibers after I get used to using it with my K-Hornet!
Have a great day, 32ideal

Included a small photo of my 22 K-Hornet Low Wall...

[wayneb]

I have martini cadet(w.w.greener),in.22 hornet it has a 20"bbl so it is really a little rifle.It has an older Burriss mini 3x9 and I restocked with a higher comb pistol grip stock to get my head up enough to see thru the glass.Mostly i shot the rcbs 55gr boolit loaded over 2400,unique,RL7,velocity was close to factory loads for the most accurate loads.The hornet has always been a pain for me to reload;a good many ruined cases,but still worth the effort.I need to go look thru my saved targets that have the load data on them.I haven't fired that little rifle in years,but it is now on my mind.
Wayne Byram

[303Guy]

Did you use a chamber reamer to form you cavity for the Hornet paper patch cross cut die?No, it's parallel with an enlargement in the bottom to sit over the case mouth. The chamber reamer idea is good!

[32ideal]

Have been digging around looking for the 22 K-Hornet reamer, may have loaned it out. Will try your method with straight sided holes and make the neck hole to fit my case necks, ream them to plus +.001 or +.002" over fired neck size, or should it be bigger for when you insert the patch i'd think the neck has to expand some.
Thinking of using some .002" thick white Poly material that I have, used the thicker version of it for wads under breech seated bullets.

Again thanks 303Guy,
32ideal

[303Guy]

It's not critical. I just made the thing up in a hurry and it worked well enough for me not to make a 'better' one. The bore is neck ID. Ideally there should be no way the case mouth can catch on the cup as it's being seated. The little push rod thing I used was pretty ramdom too. It needs to be small enough not to compress or tear the paper and to be withdrawn easily and big enough to sort of fill the neck. It's a lot easier to seat a cup onto the powder charge as that sets the seating depth. The boolit also neds to seat onto the powder. I have done it with an air-gap. Can be done.

Here's a pic of the tool.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-629F.jpg

The trick is to have a smooth transition from flat to cylindrical so the paper 'flows' easily. I got it right first time by just 'eyeballing' it. I'm not sure that the rim is necessary.

Some pics I found.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-730F.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-732F.jpg Hornet power!

This is what I was looking for ...

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-818F.jpg

It's a shear I made for cutting the paper strips.

I did mention that the paper is paper hand-towel? Two ply.

When the boolit and neck gets dipped into molten 'waxy-lube' the lube gets soaked up into the paper and 'glues' it in place. It is held sufficiently tight to not move in the magazine or with handling. Someone with strong fingers can pull them out (I think). I can't.

[303Guy]

I hope it works for you. I had a whole heap of fun developing this system and the loads. The hornet is ideal for this as the case is thin enough to self-size in the chamber. Also, the case head is weak enough to open primer pockests should the load be too hot - we're talking a medium pressure cartridge. SAAMI 43 000 CUP.

I use Federal small rifle primers because they are 'soft' and are low power - pretty much pistol primer equivalent.

Do remember that I was relying on a heavy for hornet boolit and a 'hot' charge to give conitant ignition and complete powder burn. Cast boolits may not like that level of power. But then, why not in a good bore (mine is badly rust pitted which does pic up lead).

A 1-in-16 twist should stabilize a smooth sided cast boolit of 62gr just fine. It's the same length as a 55gr Spire Point J-word.

[32ideal]

303Guy, must be from the looks of your bench you have been playing with PP boolits for awhile, tried them with a 40-65W roller & black powder, soft cores patched at bore size, they shot very well out to 300yds, but past that they were very wind sensitive, they were to light 411grs with a large flat nose, the club I belong to shoots BP target matches out to 600yds, Will try some better bullets this year when they have practice Saturdays.

Make my own pan lube a variation of Darr lube with some high pressure lube added I will try with this project, have some very strong tracing paper that is .0015" I use to wrap a grooved bullet and size them to fit a 1903 Springfield, so far results are inconsistent but fun!

Have a great weekend,
32ideal