Is Rick Jamison back for good ?

[watkibe]

Rick Jamison was one of my favorite reloading writers when he was with Shooting Times. His articles were always very factual and practical, with plenty of technical data and details. Some years back, he disappeared. When I wondered why, I googled his name. I found some general references to him suing Winchester over who created the short magnum cartridges, and then being blackballed from the gun press, but no real details.

Today I got my copy of Shooting Times' 50th Anniversary Edition, and there is an article by Rick Jamison in it ! I am glad to see it, but I have to wonder if he is back for good. I also wonder about what happened that the magazine is apparently willing to make nice.

Oh, and Happy Birthday to Shooting Times !

[Mike Venturino]

Are you sure its a new article. When they do those "anniversary" issues they often reprint things from the past.

Mike V.

[MtGun44]

Mike,

First, it is good that you are feeling well enough to come back on line. :-)

Second, any insight as to why Jamison 'went away' in the first place?

Bill

[Buckshot]

Mike,

First, it is good that you are feeling well enough to come back on line. :-)

Second, any insight as to why Jamison 'went away' in the first place?

Bill

............It was as watkibe mentioned. A legal squabble over development of some new short fat cartridges. I guess it made him persona non grata in the gunwriting field.

.............Buckshot

[Russel Nash]

slight thread drift ahead...

Way back when, I got an article published in a major woodworking periodical. I got paid $150 a page and the article went 3 pages. In order to get paid for it, I ....being the naive me at the time... signed over my rights to it and I guess my likeness as well.

Since then, my article has been reprinted several times over in that publisher's books. Also, my likeness was used on the cover of one of their CD-ROM's.

Do I get any more money?

Nope!

Am I ticked over it?

Yeah, ya bet!

So....hmmmn...yeah....You can't necessarily infer that they had kissed and made up.

[pmeisel]

but Russel, aren't you happy just to be famous?

[JSH]

Not to stir the pot, but the big issue with the black rifle incident a while back seems to have cleared. LOL, I forget his name now, but remington and a lot of other big names were involved in that. I saw him on cable the other day with a new show I think?
Seems like things should have blown over with Rick by now? Maybe him, maybe WW or both.....
jeff

[RugerFan]

Not to stir the pot, but the big issue with the black rifle incident a while back seems to have cleared. LOL, I forget his name now, but remington and a lot of other big names were involved in that. I saw him on cable the other day with a new show I think?
Seems like things should have blown over with Rick by now? Maybe him, maybe WW or both.....
jeff

That would be Jim Zumbo.

[Rocky Raab]

Nobody knows the terms of the legal settlement with Jamison. (How he got to that point is pointless to discuss now.) So anything said about it is only a baseless guess.

If there was a time limit during which he could not be published, perhaps it has expired. If there was a topic list about which he could not write, perhaps this article skirts it.

Or it could simply be a reprint of an old piece as a nostalgia item.

[mike in co]

well i'll stir the pot.
rick is a hack
my proof was published by shooting times(if i recall correctly)
an article on moly coating

pictures used to claim that the moly was scraped off by the case mouth.(straight wall pistol case)

the picture clearly showed an incompentent reloader. large burrs on the case gouging the bullet.

poor case prep and implying that it was removed in seating.
the scrapes on his case were gross, complete incompetent case prep... a belled case mouth would never allow the mouth to touch the bullet.
he did not listed if the case had been crimped, but a pulled bullet showed large deep gouging. pulling a crimped bullet is not the same as firing a bullet.

he claimed that moly was scraped off the bullet by the case and thus never made it to the bbl.


his claim, moly had no benefit.

this followed an article testing the springfield m1a, that showed a base model shot ok but was out shot by thier super grade. seeing how my std grade shot as well as thier super grade in that article, my feeling was he used the best of the super grade results against (not) the best of the std grade....cause showing they both shot the same would not promote sales of the super grade....typical criteria for a gun writer in a gun rag...promote sales not truth.

this is my opinion of one writer...based on things i have knowledge of.

( yes i am a proponent of moly. there was lots of false claimd floating around at the time. moly has one benefit: it allows one to fire the same consistancy for more shots, longer if you will, before cleaning. since then more coating have surfaced, and i may actually be moving to one of them, Boron Nitride )

[Tazman1602]

PM inbound Mt,

I don't think Mike can answer that without putting his own career in jeopardy..........it's political bullstuff.........

Art


Mike,

First, it is good that you are feeling well enough to come back on line. :-)

Second, any insight as to why Jamison 'went away' in the first place?

Bill

[leadman]

In the photos of Rick he appears to me he is older.

also there is a comparison between the 22 mag & the 17HMR. Was the 17 in service before Rick disappeared???

He also mentions a Savage 93 with an AccuTrigger. I think ? this has only been out a couple years.

[Rocky Raab]

The only time I ever met Jamison was at the 2008 SHOT Show. I'll just say that he didn't get my vote for "Mr Congenial."

[pmeisel]

Well, Rocky, Miss Congeniality was Sandra Bullock, and I have yet to hear of a gunwriter that could compete with her!

[watkibe]

Seems to me that it would likely be a new article. Hard to believe they would reprint his work if he was still on their s__t list, unless it was just to tweak him because they own all the rights to the article and won't pay him any more for it... which is even harder to believe. Besides, the accutrigger 93 and the 17 HMR came out since his "disappearance".

The article is about a rimfire cartridge, so maybe they don't mind publishing him as long as it's not a centerifre ?

By the way, I liked the article because I agreed with it, lol. (Isn't that funny the way that usually works ?) My accutrigger 93 is awesome, and more capable than I would have thought.

[Mike Venturino]

The .17 HMR came out before Rick's "disappearance." In 2003 we were at a n ST seminar together and Hornady told us there they had already produced 11,000,000 rounds of .17 HMR rounds. The accutrigger 93 I know nothing about.

It would be easy to see if Rick has joined ST again. Just look on the masthead and see if his name is there.

Regardless, he's a good guy. We have known each other since 1974.
MLV

[StarMetal]

It's a new article. Lots of the ammo he has listed is fairly recent addition to the 22 mag line. It was mentioned but the Accu-trigger on the Model 93 Savage is fairly recent too.

mike in co

Jamison has forgotten more about reloading then you could ever learn going to all the ballistic schools in the world. Not a punch at you, but anyone can point out something they think a gunwrite had done wrong in an article. The man is sharp and one heck of a shooter too. I also agree with the article. The 17 never was better then the 22 mag.

Joe

[Russel Nash]

I bought my accu-trigger equipped Savage 93 chambered in .17 HMR sometime before 2007...maybe 2006.

Or maybe 2005 in May or June of either year.

Just an FYI...

[Russel Nash]

Oh...another FYI...I think most gun writers are full of krap.

There are two that I like, right off the top of my head.

Patrick Sweeney.

Zak Smith.

[leadman]

This got me to thinking when I bought my left hand Savage 93. Had to go look. It was 2004. Seems like just a few years ago.

Mine was made before the Accu-trigger was available on this rifle.

[mike in co]

It's a new article. Lots of the ammo he has listed is fairly recent addition to the 22 mag line. It was mentioned but the Accu-trigger on the Model 93 Savage is fairly recent too.

mike in co

Jamison has forgotten more about reloading then you could ever learn going to all the ballistic schools in the world. Not a punch at you, but anyone can point out something they think a gunwrite had done wrong in an article. The man is sharp and one heck of a shooter too. I also agree with the article. The 17 never was better then the 22 mag.

Joe

i agree with part of your statement..he has forgotten.

completely assinine to show pics of scraped bullets..when the obvious cause was poor brass prep.
he used the scrape as why not to use moly.....the two were not related.
mike in co

[Rocky Raab]

Mike, that's clearly the burr under your saddle. You may be right, wrong or something else, but you are beginning to sound obsessive about it - and that hurts your position. Just between us buds.

[mike in co]

Mike, that's clearly the burr under your saddle. You may be right, wrong or something else, but you are beginning to sound obsessive about it - and that hurts your position. Just between us buds.

it was proof in the pudding as far as i was concerned.
i do not subscribe to any gun mags. i do get american rifleman, and it sucks most of the time with car/truck.atv/knife filler.

we all have the right to our opinions, one of the nice things about our country and this site.

mike in co

[The Double D]

Several years ago, 30 when I count, and when the big name magazines still bought free lance articles, I submitted a query letter for an article. I received back an acceptance letter and a contract. The contract letter stipulated: the article would be published at a later date to be determined; when a publication date was determined, I would receive payment prior to publication; once I accepted payment, the ownership of the article transferred to the Magazine and could be edited, quoted or accredited as they deemed necessary.

I signed the contract, wrote the article and sent it in. A year later I received a check. The article appeared in print a couple of months later. The byline was to an executive of the shooting sport I was writing about. The opening couple of paragraphs were not mine, but the rest of the article was all mine. No credit. Some months later I saw that executive and asked him about it. He said he had submitted an article on the same subject, but what was printed, was not his writing. He was such a nice guy then, before and after, I did not tell him I wrote it, as I felt no need to humiliate him. He seemed embarrassed enough about it.

Strike 1!

I tried later with another magazine that solicited free lance writers. The editor required I include at the end of the article a list of suppliers used to build the rifle described. Apparently after publication the editor sent a copy of the article to every supplier listed and I received checks reimbursing me for the materials from several of the suppliers. (I felt dirty! I felt like a *****! I cashed the checks!)

Strike 2!

After writing that article, the editor called me and asked if I would evaluate a rifle. He told me ammo and rifle would be provided and payment for article would be made. Sure, can't beat that. The rifle arrived and I evaluated it and called the editor. I told him the rifle was a ***. The trigger was unbelievably crude and was almost unworkable as the accurate rifle it was suppose to be and didn't believe he would want to publish any article I wrote on the rifle. He said write the article and send it in. Later he called me and said, I was right, he couldn't publish the article, the rifle company would cancel their advertising contract. He told me to keep the left over ammo and brass, send the rifle back where it was supposed go when I was through with it, and he would get the check in the mail to me. Another "they pay-they own" contract. That kept me from selling that article or its form anywhere else. Doubt anyone would have bought it anyway.

Strike 3, and the end of my aspirations to be a famous gun writer!

[Rocky Raab]

All I can say is that kind of thing has never happened to me, barring one episode where I was asked to change my opinion of a product to avoid upsetting an advertiser. (I withdrew the article and it was later printed as-is by a better magazine.)

I'm not famous, and if there is a ladder of prestige for gun writers, my left foot is still on dirt. But I love to write, and I love to shoot/reload. The one pays for the other, and that suits me just fine. I've published close on 100 articles now (and have five in work) and have yet to meet a writer or editor I didn't like at least a little bit.

I'm a gun writer, and I'm proud to say it.

[Firebird]

I think the reason that so many people were upset with Rick Jamison's patent is that there is so much "prior art" as the legal term goes that it should never have been issued in the first place. Rick had to limit the cartridge caliber range in the patent so it didn't include such cartridges as the 40-50 BN Sharps target cartridge, not to say the "Fat Mac" and many other wildcat designs. He did this without any explanation of why the caliber had to be limited for the "short/fat" cartridge dimensions to provide better accuracy. Of course there isn't any reason, other than trying to exclude the fact that the "idea" his patent covered had been around long before he was born. Why Winchester paid him off instead of fighting it in court probably does go down as to which was cheaper, a few thousand? or even a few hundred thousand? to Jamison or twice as much to the lawyers. I don't believe Remington has paid Jamison off, and the short ultramags (RSUM cartridges) "violate" his patent just as much as the Winchester WSM cartridges.

[MakeMineA10mm]

I think it was a mistake to issue the patent too. Patent a way to better/cheaper/easier make brass, fine. Patent a totally unique head design/dimension (if you can find/think of one), MAYBE. Patent a double-curved shoulder (Weatherby), no. Patent a ratio of length to width of a case's dimensions? No...

In the late 1990s, there was a lively debate on one of the two biggest firearms internet forums back then about assault rifles (real, full-auto, military-battle-rifle type assault rifles), their cartridges, and what was right and wrong with the 7.62 NATO, 7.62 M43 Soviet, and 5.56 NATO. My contribution to the debate was this: Find a case with a head size half-way between the two NATO rounds - preferably it would be slightly smaller than the Soviet case. OAL of the round should be workable through the 5.56NATO & 7.62 M43 magazines (ironically, both of which have almost identical OALs). Caliber should be about 6.5mm and bullet weight 107 grains (basically exactly half-way between the 5.56 & 7.62 NATO's dimensions). I felt the 10mm Auto handgun cartridge had the right head size but was far too short. I checked out the length of the 10mm Magnum cartridge, and it was still a few millimeters short. I then determined that the 30 Remington head size would work perfectly and could be cut-back and reamed out and necked to accept the 6.5 Sierra 107gr bullet. I specified case length, neck length, shoulder angle, etc. The only thing I didn't figure out was the taper to the case wall, but I did say it should be designed so that it would feed well through 5.56mm magazines, since those caliber rifles would be most easily converted here in the US.

Four years later, Remington brings out the 6.8 SPC. To say I was stunned would be an understatement. Ticked me off a little, but I don't believe the idea is patentable, so I got over that quickly. IF they did copy me, I'm happy to contribute to make our war-fighters better armed. Quite frankly, I don't really care, and appreciated that if they didn't copy my idea, I must've been half-way smart... [smilie=l: IF they did copy me, I'd be happily paid off by a couple cases of ammo! No big money ideas for me. (How's about it Remington???)

:bigsmyl2:

[felix]

10MM, there are thousands of examples of what folks thought up and marketed by somebody else. Examples close at hand were the Wankel engine design concept by my dad, and the flashlight type of storage battery by my wife's dad. Plus, the game Monopoly was invented by my grandmother's brother and then sold to Parker Brothers for cash payment with no royalties. ... felix

But here is the best one. Guy down the street worked as a saleman for one the the toothpaste firms, the names of which my dad told me about was forgotten by me. The top guns asked the marketing department for ideas of increasing sales. The guy wrote a formal letter asking for a million dollars in escrow in case the volume was not doubled within a year as promised. About a month later management wrote back a formal letter stating an agreement. My dad saw both letters from the neighbor. The idea proved fruitful, and the guy got paid in 50K yearly instalments as long as he remained an employee, and the lump sum remaining if death. The idea: open the area of the mouth of the toothpaste tube enough to double the volume in one year. ... felix

[anachronism]

I always found Rick knowledgeable & informative. As for Winchester, Rick was able to prove in court that Winchester infringed on his patents, and Winchesters extremely well paid legal staff was unable to refute the allegation. Winchester lost, and Rick got paid. If it had been one of us, everybody would have been cheering. Winchester made a lot of bad calls in that era, and paid heavy prices for their mistakes. A few million in Ricks pockets is a drop in the bucket compared to FNs other boondoggles. For the record... Ricks settlement did NOT cause Winchester to close their doors, as I have seen suggested elsewhere. Mismanagement did.

[PatMarlin]

10MM, there are thousands of examples of what folks thought up and marketed by somebody else. Examples close at hand were the Wankel engine design concept by my dad, and the flashlight type of storage battery by my wife's dad. Plus, the game Monopoly was invented by my grandmother's brother and then sold to Parker Brothers for cash payment with no royalties. ... felix

But here is the best one. Guy down the street worked as a saleman for one the the toothpaste firms, the names of which my dad told me about was forgotten by me. The top guns asked the marketing department for ideas of increasing sales. The guy wrote a formal letter asking for a million dollars in escrow in case the volume was not doubled within a year as promised. About a month later management wrote back a formal letter stating an agreement. My dad saw both letters from the neighbor. The idea proved fruitful, and the guy got paid in 50K yearly instalments as long as he remained an employee, and the lump sum remaining if death. The idea: open the area of the mouth of the toothpaste tube enough to double the volume in one year. ... felix

Now that's an awesome story Felix.

Wankel- had one of those in my RX7. That was a fun car.

[MakeMineA10mm]

10MM, there are thousands of examples of what folks thought up and marketed by somebody else. Examples close at hand were the Wankel engine design concept by my dad, and the flashlight type of storage battery by my wife's dad. Plus, the game Monopoly was invented by my grandmother's brother and then sold to Parker Brothers for cash payment with no royalties. ... felix

But here is the best one. Guy down the street worked as a saleman for one the the toothpaste firms, the names of which my dad told me about was forgotten by me. The top guns asked the marketing department for ideas of increasing sales. The guy wrote a formal letter asking for a million dollars in escrow in case the volume was not doubled within a year as promised. About a month later management wrote back a formal letter stating an agreement. My dad saw both letters from the neighbor. The idea proved fruitful, and the guy got paid in 50K yearly instalments as long as he remained an employee, and the lump sum remaining if death. The idea: open the area of the mouth of the toothpaste tube enough to double the volume in one year. ... felix

Very true, and great stories, felix. I'm not upset at all. Like I said, I could be bought off quite cheaply for a case or two of ammo... :bigsmyl2:

[MT Gianni]

I heard during the same time period, 1968 or so Diamond Match saved a million by only putting one striker panel on a box.
Whether or not you, I or anyone else agree's with it, the fact is the patent was issued and should be honored or legal means taken to revoke it.