HELP! --- New Bullet Caster

[Copperhead]

I would appreciate input into my problem. I had a rock solid reload for my Nagant revolver. I used a . 312 96gr lead bullet, which I purchased, and 3.3 grains of Trail Boss. It gave me 760 fps plus or minus a fps over 5 rounds. I bought a Lee mold and cast my own bullets. They are dropping at .312 - .313. Their weight is 101 gr. My barrel slugs at .313. I noticed with my bullets, I was getting more "fliers". I saved three rounds of 3.3 gr of Trail Boss and my cast bullet. I checked them on the chrony and their speed was all over the place. Today I did some testing and produced the following:

2.7gr 2.9gr 3.1gr 3.3gr 3.5gr 3.7gr

1 dud 477.9 395.4 622.6 587.4 421.6
2 220.5 212.6 410.0 771.9 665.2 445.4
3 401.9 574.7 405.3 731.6 109.8 418.0
4 562.0 459.2 346.1 581.1 708.5 471.6
5 578.9 649.9 559.1 726.6 425.4 313.5

Note: All shots were made from the same cylinder and numbers are in feet per second.


I've only been reloading for a year or so; consequently, feel free to question what I'm doing. It seems like there is something else at play here? Thanks.

[iron mule]

well i'll give you my best guess on what the problem may be since i am not sure of your reloading technique but i would say that neck tension would be your problem causing the flux in velocity
mule

[lwknight]

If I understand right, you get good results with some boolits and not others. I might hazard a guess that the bases might not all be 100% symmetrical. A partially rounded base on 1 half and square on the other could be thrown into a wobbly by the muzzle blasts upon leaving the barrel.
Maybe some boolits are getting deformed or bent from dropping out of the mold.
Just my hazardous guess.

[MtGun44]

How are you measuring your charges? Could be charge wt variation.

Bill

[jforwel]

You said you had one dud. But that would have nothing to do with your boolits. Have you changed primers when you started using your own boolits?

[runfiverun]

i'd say inconsistent powder weights or poor ignition.
those speeds are all over the place.
220 fps to 770 fps within one grain of powder?
you can't get a 500 fps spread like that trying.
you got powder drop issues, try hand weighing the highest weight load you have and try again.
if it still does it then you need to look elsewhere,like at another powder,primers,or cases.

[mdi]

Doesn't the Nagant revolver use really deep seated bullets? A good crimp can aid powder burn consistancy, but I'm not sure about the odd shaped Nagant case crimping issue..

[gray wolf]

neck tension
bullet crimp
POWDER WEIGHT
.001--.003 difference in bullet size

I would proceed with care--the next time you could have an over pressure condition.
Way,way to much difference it velocity.
Any key holing?

[Copperhead]

Perhaps. I have a theory. When I slugged my barrel, I do believe the lead I used was not soft enough; hence, it may have "sprung" back (?) some and gave me the false .313 reading? Perhaps the bullets are indeed too large?


well i'll give you my best guess on what the problem may be since i am not sure of your reloading technique but i would say that neck tension would be your problem causing the flux in velocity
mule

[Copperhead]

With the Lee beam scale.


How are you measuring your charges? Could be charge wt variation.

Bill

[Copperhead]

I said dud, but I misspoke. It did manage to get the bullet into the barrel. I'm using Winchester primers.


You said you had one dud. But that would have nothing to do with your boolits. Have you changed primers when you started using your own boolits?

[Copperhead]

I had the same type of fluctuations as I experimented with the purchased bullets. At the 3.3gra, all fluctuations essentially ceased.


i'd say inconsistent powder weights or poor ignition.
those speeds are all over the place.
220 fps to 770 fps within one grain of powder?
you can't get a 500 fps spread like that trying.
you got powder drop issues, try hand weighing the highest weight load you have and try again.
if it still does it then you need to look elsewhere,like at another powder,primers,or cases.

[Copperhead]

What is "key holing"?


neck tension
bullet crimp
POWDER WEIGHT
.001--.003 difference in bullet size

I would proceed with care--the next time you could have an over pressure condition.
Way,way to much difference it velocity.
Any key holing?

[Copperhead]

I'm using 32-20 brass reformed with a Lee Nagant die (the brass is shorter than "real" nagant brass).


Doesn't the Nagant revolver use really deep seated bullets? A good crimp can aid powder burn consistancy, but I'm not sure about the odd shaped Nagant case crimping issue..

[cast14U]

Couple of questions, how well does your boolit fit your chambers compared to the boolits you use to buy? They should fit so you have to push them threw with a little effort but if they drop right threw that's no good. Also, general rule of thumb with cast boolits is to size your boolits to .001 to .002 over bore diameter for a good fit/seal. If your bore diameter is .313 and your drop cast diameter is .312, your already .001 undersized as it is. Tell me your not also running them through a sizer die to lube them or are you pan lubing? Have you noticed any leading with your own boolits that wasn't there before with the store bought?

Bill

[leadman]

The Nagant does not have throats like a normal revolver. The cylinder moves forward to allow the brass to enter the barrel where there is normally a forcing cone. It is called a "gas seal revolver".

The bullet is seated inside the case aways. Would have to look at mine but seems like a quarter inch maybe.

The 32-20 brass is short if I remember right and does not seal the bore properly.

I tried reloading the correct brass with variuos bullets and never did get anything satisfactory.

I shortened some Nagant brass trying to get mine to shoot and got velocities like the OP described. Accurracy was terrible. Velocity was stable around 700 fps with Fiochi factory ammo, accurracy only fair. I put it away and haven't messed with it since.

I think Bullshop has gotten decent results with this revolver. Might PM him.

[Marlin Hunter]

i'd say inconsistent powder weights or poor ignition.
those speeds are all over the place.
220 fps to 770 fps within one grain of powder?
you can't get a 500 fps spread like that trying.
you got powder drop issues, try hand weighing the highest weight load you have and try again.
if it still does it then you need to look elsewhere,like at another powder,primers,or cases.


I agree that it is a powder consistency problem. I have not used Trail Boss, but my understanding of it, is that it is something like black powder in that it can be used in all calibers. Bollits will not cause that wide of a velocity spread. He could have static or oil in his powder measure. Maybe the boolit lube is reacting with the Trail boss powder????

[Goatlips]

What is "key holing"?

Copperhead, it's just a term for a boolit that hits the paper sideways, so the hole it makes looks sorta like an old fashioned keyhole instead of round. :-( There's about two hundred different things that can cause that. ;)

Welcome to the nut club.

Goatlips

[cast14U]

I would also check the battery in your chronograph just to be sure. Retest if there is a doubt. Those readings are way out of wack for even the powder being a problem especially were you used it before. From what your telling us you only change the boolit and nothing else Right?

[pt4u2nv]

I would also check the battery in your chronograph just to be sure. Retest if there is a doubt. Those readings are way out of wack for even the powder being a problem especially were you used it before. From what your telling us you only change the boolit and nothing else Right?

i agree. Check your Chrongraph !! I struggled for weeks with a "assumed" high pressure issue because I trusted a new chronographs high readings only to find out my loads were fine and the chrony was not.

[Bret4207]

If I understand correctly Copperhead you got good accuracy and low standard deviation with the boughten boolits. Now with your castings you're getting lousy accuracy and wild shooting. Is that correct? If so then I think you have some pretty good variation in diameter of your castings, perhaps incomplete fill out and the alloys may be different enough that you'll need to work on that too. Start with a measurement of the inside of a fired case mouth. What's that measure.

FWIW- you're almost always better off with a slightly large boolit that a skinny one. If your barrel truely slugs .313 and you're using boolits measuring .312-.313 then the problem is partly undersized boolits. Beagling may help there.

[Wayne Smith]

On other question, Copperhead. Did you crimp these boolits? Is there a chance that they were slipping back in the case giving different seating depth? I'm not sure how the 32-20 case is used in the Nagant but the original boolit was inside the mouth of the case and could not be traditionally crimped. I believe that they used a punch crimp to keep the boolit in place.

If you had one round where the boolit did not exit the barrel you had one without any powder. Check your reloading process - how did this happen? If you are weighing every round it should not have been possible.

[jdgabbard]

I'm thinking that it is a combination of things. Boolit fillout, and/or size issue. Crimping issue, powder, and/or primers...

Too many variables. Narrow it down. Post some pictures of the boolits you're reloading. At least then we'll be able to tell if its your boolits...