What do you think????

[abunaitoo]

Yesterday, a guy I thought was a friend, brought three rifles to the range to sell.
He's selling them because his uncle is sick and he's reducing his collection.
He won't have the room to store when his uncle dies and the house is sold.
He told me he had told one person about one of the rifles.
I had one of the same, but would buy it if the other guy didn't.
Asked the price and told him I'd buy it.
As I was looking at the first rifle, he said I might be interested in another one he brought.
I looked at it and told him I'd buy it too.
Told him to tell me what it would be for both rifles.
The guy who had first crack on the first rifle came by.
He didn't take it.
The third rifle was for another guy.
I went to talk to someone else and the third guy came by.
I saw him looking at two rifles.
One of which I had just agreed to buy.
Another guy came by and was looking at the other rifle I had agreed to buy.
Well next thing I know both rifles were sold to the other two guy.
Same price that I agreed to buy them for.
I wasn't even told anything about what went on.

What do you think????
Did I get screwed by this so called friend????
I know collecting is a dog eat dog hobby.
But there has to be some honesty and integrity if we want to survive.

[fishhawk]

well doesn't sound to me like they were his to sell in the first place. have heard stories about selling for some one who is ill or dieing and turns out not true then your stuck with stolen firearms. you maybe lucky you didn't buy them! steve k

[abunaitoo]

They were his.
We all have known each other for years.
He's selling because he will have to move to a smaller place, and dosen't have the room for all he has.

[Lunk]

I do not know about anyone else but if you were in the area, E.G. just down the line a bit I'd tell the other gentlemen that you had spoken for them and they could have second crack at them if you did not come up with the money.
I've not really seen it in my life but didn't there used to be a time when you word was your bond?
Or is that some crazy dream and is it just cash on the barrelhead?

[sagacious]

Sounds less like a freind, and more like an 'acqaintance' that you had known for years.

If he said they were yours, well, you may have learned something about his character.

But sometimes folks interpert "I'll buy it" as "I want to buy it." I have no idea what went on in his head.
Let's hope it was just a simple misunderstanding. Sorry you got a raw deal.

[evan price]

When I do a deal like this, if I don't pay and take on the spot, I give the seller a deposit. Depending on how much something is... a $20 bill... a $50 bill... $100 bill... whatever. That way if they get cold feet or someone comes around trying to talk their way into the deal, the seller KNOWS he's got my money in his pocket and that kind of prevents them from letting thier mind wander, if you know what I mean.

Bein' as how this was a "friend" you might not expect that sort of thing, but any "friend" of mine wouldn't have sold out from under me.

[jdgabbard]

I've not really seen it in my life but didn't there used to be a time when you word was your bond?
Or is that some crazy dream and is it just cash on the barrelhead?

Tell that to the guy that sold a car out from underneath me yesterday. Noticed on craigslist where a guy had a vehicle for sale. The right price, and exactly what I was looking for. Called the guy to make arrangements to see the car. When I got to his place I spent about 20mins looking and driving the car. Decided I wanted it, so I made the deal with the man, told him I'd be back in just a moment with the money, and made a short 5 min trip to the bank to get the cash. When I pulled back up in his driveway, the guy was handing off the keys and title to another guy.

So to answer your' question, no there is no such thing as honor and one's word anymore.... At least not in the real world.

[paul s]

When I'm selling the guy with the cash gets it. Its an old story, "Cash talks and BS walks"

[bigdog454]

+ 1, paul s

[Echo]

Your word IS your bond, and that seller's bond isn't worth much, even though you have known him a long time...

[OutHuntn84]

I can agree to an extent of the ol "Cash talks; Bull __ walks", but only to a certain extent. Usualy if a man tells me he is ready to buy and doesnt put the money in hand; Im up front with him and say I will hold the item for X ammount of time after that its back to the mob. Anyone else that is interested in the same product at the same price, I start taking numbers and tell em if this sale falls through or I get anotherone I'll let em know and charge them the same price. Found I can make alot of good deals this way, treating others the way I want to be treated. Who would of thunk it?!?! Also someone burns me like your "friend" did, it tells me all I need to know about their integrity and I wouldn't take them seriously, regarding business, after that.

[RobS]

You've been screwed. I'm a man of my word and expect the same with those I deal with and those I surround myself with. If you said you were to buy then in my books it would be yours and I would have taken up seconds and thirds from the other fellows if you were unable to pay within a given time frame. I'm reasonable with people to an extent and until a person gives me charateristics to write them off I give them the benefit of the doubt. Your "friend" if he were mine would be demoted to no more than another person.

Rob

[9.3X62AL]

I'm with OutHuntn84 on this question. People can really get mercenary and vicious when money gets involved. I prefer to avoid such parties.

[Jon]

I'd say he wasn't fair to you. Unfortunately, too many times people say they want to buy something, and don't follow through.

As far as cars go, If you want something, have at least some deposit cash in hand. Otherwise it's whoever shows up with the money.

A persons word isn't worth that much these days.

[DLCTEX]

You had a verbal contract. If he didn't honor it, he's not a friend.

[WILCO]

What do you think????
Did I get screwed by this so called friend????


Don't get caught up in the drama.
Pick new folks to know and move on.
It don't matter what you collect because when you die, it becomes someone else's.
Life is too short.

[winelover]

Tell that to the guy that sold a car out from underneath me yesterday. Noticed on craigslist where a guy had a vehicle for sale. The right price, and exactly what I was looking for. Called the guy to make arrangements to see the car. When I got to his place I spent about 20mins looking and driving the car. Decided I wanted it, so I made the deal with the man, told him I'd be back in just a moment with the money, and made a short 5 min trip to the bank to get the cash. When I pulled back up in his driveway, the guy was handing off the keys and title to another guy.

So to answer your' question, no there is no such thing as honor and one's word anymore.... At least not in the real world.

Next time leave a deposit. He had no idea if or when you would be back.

Winelover

[waksupi]

Money talks, Blank blank walks? I have people who will say they will buy something, and be back later with the money. Then he wanders away, and will delay me in what I am doing, until he happens to come back to pay for the item, then wants to haggle over the agreed upon price. So, my policy is, if you want it, fine, but if someone else comes along with money in hand, it is sold. And I tell people that. The reason I sell things, is because I no longer want them in my possession. I don't like to drag things out. Maybe the guy wanted to get them off his hands, so he could go do something else? Why didn't your finish the transaction when you started it? I don't know how many times I have heard, "I'll be back", and never see the person again.

[Bad Water Bill]

I just learned who to trust here.

[jdgabbard]

I just learned who to trust here.

+1

There was a time when a hand shake was like a contract. And from where I'm from it's still like that. Honor, respect, and one's word is a thIng of the past that few respect...

[abunaitoo]

I'm a man of my word.
If I agree to something I'll stick to it.
In the old days, real men behaved this way.
I still do.
I told him I'd buy both of them, told him let me know what the total was.
Went 5 to 10 feet away to talk to another of our gang.
Not 5 minutes later I saw money changing hands and a check being written.
Screwed anyway you look at it.
I know it was not the money.
They were sold for what I was told the price was.

One of the buyers found out what had happened and emailed me.
He said he didn't know I had agreed to buy the rifle.
He told me the seller told him as he arrived at the range if he wanted to buy a rifle. Didn't say anything about me.
The buyer came way after I had made the deal.
He told me he felt bad how I was screwed and offered it to me.
I tild him we both shouldn't be screwed on this and for him to just keep it.
He feels bad and said he'll probably just sell it to keep away the bad Karma.
I don't expect the other buyer to try to make good.

"Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me"
I'll never give this guy another chance.

"money talks, BS walks"
Sorry, but this is the kind of thinking that I cannot live with.
This is why our country is in such bad shape today.
No honesty or integrity.
Your word is not something sacred anymore.
It's alright to lie and cheat for what ever reason you think in acceptable.
What happened to us?????

[johnlaw484]

If I am selling something I tell all. The first one with the money gets it. I have been shafted too many times.
"fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."

[Ben]

abunaitoo :

40 yrs. ago, I saw an old man ( who is dead now ) who felt sorry for a young mixed up 20 yr. old and loaned him $20 to help get him out of a jam he was in.

I didn't think it was a good idea, but I kept my mouth shut on the matter.

The boy moved out of town and left the old man " holding the bag on the $20 loan "

Several months went by and I saw the old man, I said " Looks like you're out $20 on your loan."

He said, ......" Nope, that is just the price I had to pay to find out what kind of man he was."

This may very well have application to your current situation also with your " friend " .

[Tazman1602]

Man I don't know. I've read some posts here that kinda surprised me. Guess maybe I'm too old because if I tell a FRIEND something I follow through even if it costs me.

Guess that's why I'll never be rich. Money ain't my God and I'm not even religious.

If I tell you, a total stranger that "it's yours", I'll also tell you that you have X amount of hours to return with cash in hand or it's up for sale again.

The whole point is to be upfront and not play political bull stuff word games with people I think.

Just my .02 worth but in the words of an old deceased friend "you got screwed" in my humble opinion.

That's ROTTEN but don't let yourself revert to the level of the person who did this to you.

[jcwit]

You need to be more picky about who you pick for a friend.

[CWME]

Definately need to talk out a purchase or sale. When selling.. If I am told "be right back", I ask when that will be and I also get a name and phone number. If I don't get a good feeling from the person at "hello" I won't offer to hold the item.
When buying I try to bring the funds with me so that I can take posession of whatever I am buying. If it is a large item that I don'thave the cash for(car), a deposit, and my contact info is given to the seller. If I need extra time a phone call to the seller with an update normally holds the item.
When selling, my time is valuable. When buying the seller's time is valuable. Communication is the key here.

Treat people with respect. Your friend did not respect your friendship. Not a friend.

[Faret]

Sounds like a friend that I used to have.

[Frank46]

Ben, your friend was right. Not much of a man in my book. A couple guys were shooting a marlin 1894 in 357 mag at our local range and one had told me it was for sale. $160 nice shape, some minor rust on the receiver and an excellent bore. Since they usually shoot the same days I do I asked if they would meet me the next day and we would swap money for the rifle. It was agreed upon and sunday all three
of us arrived at the same time. Checked it over and gave them the money. One guy questioned when I handed him the $160. When asked why he said $145. Well was kinda confused so I said look I heard $160 if it really bothers you that much go buy some brew on me. They also gave a box of mixed factory 357 magnum ammo which I proceeded to fire off. Met them a few weeks later and the guy I gave the money to wanted to give me back the $15 dollars difference. Told him thanks, but have since had $15 worth of fun and wouldn't be right to take his money. The 1894 has since proven to be very accurate with a lyman 6x all american scope on it. Wouldn't take twice what I paid for it now. We see each other from time to time and usually he asks about the 1894 he sold me. I usually tell him best deal I ever made. So sometimes it pays to be upright and forthcoming. Majority of folks down here are like that and appreciate being told the truth and maybe I might be old fashioned but I still believe a mans word IS his bond. Frank

[Cadillo]

The responses to this thread speak volumes about character. It brings to mind something once said by Samual Clemens:

"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." - Mark Twain

[fatelk]

It seems that there are a some folks out there that don't understand business courtesy, and others simply have no personal ethics. Business courtesy, to me, means that if I tell someone "it's yours" I stick to my word.

You have to be careful saying "it's yours". It's better to lay out the rules at the time, like "if you come back with the money by 5:00, it's yours", or "leave a deposit of $x and I'll hold it for 2 days", or whatever.

With a friend, though, there's an issue of friendship and trust. If he couldn't at least walk over to you and make sure you still wanted the rifles before selling them out from under you, he either has no clue about common courtesy, or is just not really a friend after all.

Some folks simply have no personal ethics, though. I'm sure everyone knows someone who gets one over on someone else and laughs all the way to the bank. They get a warm fuzzy on the inside when they rip someone off or take advantage. (jerks)

On the other hand, we all know (and hopefully are) the other guy who would go way out of his way to make it right if he realizes he accidentally took advantage. Personal integrity goes a long way in my book. It's hard for me to have any respect for someone with no integrity.

Last year a couple friends and I went together and bought a bunch of old ammo from a guy on another forum. A bunch as in several hundred dollars worth. Seven or eight months later I took some out to shoot, in the snow and freezing cold. Old, questionable primers= lots of misfires, mostly misfires. I posted about it on the same board, didn't mention or even really remember who I got them from as it had been over half a year. The consensus was that the primers were on the edge and wouldn't work in the cold. I grumbled about how I shouldn't have bought old junk ammo, and forgot about it. It should work fine for warm-weather plinking ammo.

Would you believe that a couple weeks later the UPS truck pulls up with a box from the guy I bought the ammo from over a half a year earlier? And with over $100 worth of ammo inside? :shock: I thought that was pretty incredible, and left his some really good feedback on the forum.

[lead-1]

I think he should have let you have the guns but now you know better than to deal with him the next time.
Two years ago a friend and I went to gun show to snoop around, not really looking to buy anything. My friend has his eye caught by a real nice looking Winchester shotgun roaming the floor so he asked the guy to see it. He owns no shotguns himself and said he thought his son would love that for Christmas, asked the guy the price, I told him it was well worth it.
He asked the guy to hold it for fourty minutes till he found an ATM and he would pay an extra twenty bucks. Left the show, got the money then my friend decided that the guy probably walked off with the gun so we stopped to eat lunch, when we got back to the show fifteen minutes late, there was the guy standing right where he said he would be and he wouldn't take the extra twenty.
Total stranger that we never met before kept his word and we felt bad for grabbing a bite to eat.

BTW, that show now has an ATM in the building.

[Mumblypeg]

I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. He got you once, don't let him do it again. Now you know how he is. The flip side is, maybe you didn't make youfself clear. I've had people say they were going to buy then never heard from them again so money does talk. Now don't get me wrong, If I tell you I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it and I expect the same but some times there is a failure to communicate. What goes around, comes around as they say.

[abunaitoo]

I've known this puke for almost 10 years.
Bought a few guns from him before.
Have a table next to him at our gunshow.
Belong to the same club.
Always had a good relationship.
Never any problems before this.
I now know he's been putting up a front of being an honest, religious person.
Maybe it's because he's a non-practicing lawyer that I trusted him.

At this point the rifles mean nothing to me.
Losing someone who I thought was a friend is more disturbing to me.
It's the slap in the face that will probably never be forgotten.
I'm still a little pissed, but have just added him to the "person to not associate with" list.

Majority of the gun owners I've run in to have been honest, reliable Americans.
Being a small time antique collector, I know that a majority of those people are of questionable integrity.
I expected more from a gun owner who was a suposed friend.
I hope we all realize our passion in under constant attack by those who would deprive us of our way of life.
"If we don't stand together, we will surely hang together"
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." - Mark Twain
Mark Twain was a smart man.
I also admire Will Rodgers and Yogi Berra.