Cast bullets for Sav. 99 in 300 Sav.

[res45]

Well I know this is a tricky one to load for since it has the short neck,but that all I know so I'm looking for some insight for anyone that has loaded the 300 Sav. in a lever gun with cast bullets before.

My budget is pretty tight as far as molds go I would like to use on of the Lee GC designs if possible. The rifle is a series E about 25+ years old thats how long I have had it. I know the guy that bought it new he hardly ever shot it and I've only put a couple hundred rds. of reloads through it over the years and it's very accurate.

I'm not look for anything in a long range bullet,just a good FN design that I can hunt and target shoot with at 100 yds. or less. I need to slug the bore before I purchase a mold,just looking for some general idea on a good weight and design,this bullet will also probably end up being used in my Sav. pump 30-30 also but thats not really all that important at the moment. If it can cross over that would be great if not no big deal,I can deal with that later. Thanks

[Tony65x55]

Res45, the obvious choice is the 170gr Lee Flat point. It will work well in your .300 Savage at healthy speeds and in your .30-30. It is decently accurate and hits hard for a .30 cal. I've used this bullet with satisfaction in the .30-30, 300 Savage and the .308 Win for many years. It's a good one and very inexpensive.

Tony

[Hardcast416taylor]

These aren`t LEE molds, but work decently thru my 99 Savage and my Rem. 722 rifles.

Lyman #311414, RCBS 150SP, and Lyman #311910 all weigh in at about 150 grs. + gas check and lube.

I use ww alloy air cooled. My 2 most used loads are 16 gr. 2400 and 34 gr. of IMR-4064 with a Rem. std. primer. The 4064 load gets about 2200 fps if the gods are smiling on me that day. Robert

[res45]

Thanks Guy's my friend order one of the Lee 170 gr. FP's today so I will get to try it out first and see how it does.

If it doesn't work I will try something different,Tony did you shoot the bullet as cast and would a Lee .309 sizer be correct for that mold? Thanks

[Bret4207]

300's tends to have a short throat. Might be better off with a 150 instead of a 170.

[res45]

300's tends to have a short throat. Might be better off with a 150 instead of a 170.

I aware of some of the problems associated with the 300 Sav. I don't want to throw away good money on a mold that doesn't work. At least I can work up a dummy rd. with the Lee bullet and check a few things out first.

Ed Harris sent me a few pointer on things to look out for loading this rd. a few years ago. I'll have to dig that old email out of my reloading log and read it over again.

[JDL]

res45, The Lee 170 will probably work ok. I used to use Lyman 31141 loaded so the gc was even with the bottom of the shoulder, which left 1 lube ring out of the case. I found a caseful of H-4831 sent it downrange close to 2100 fps and it was certainly deadly on deer. Just make sure the OAL is 2.6" or less otherwise, it won't function through the magizine.
JDL

[Dutch4122]

Another good one is the Lyman 31141 or 311041 (same design just different #'s) My Savage '99 loves this design.

You can get an improved version of this design from BRP Custom Molds in the vendor sponsors section of this forum. While the cost is more than a Lee mold the quality is much better and the mold will last you much longer.

Hope this helps,

[ammohead]

The rifle is a series E about 25+ years old thats how long I have had it. I know the guy that bought it new he hardly ever shot it and I've only put a couple hundred rds. of reloads through it over the years and it's very accurate.

res45,

If at first you don't succeed try a lighter boolit. I have a 99 in 300 and it has a 1 in 14" twist. The best accuracy came from a 32 pistol boolit at I believe 88 grs. These were low velocity plinking rounds, but out to 50 yds they grouped real well. Recently I got a six cavity 115 gr group buy mould that I have been meaning to try in my 300 sav. I will keep you in mind when I give it a try and get back to you. I should be trying it out soon, seeing as I am currently out of work and have time on my hands.

ammohead

[res45]

Guy's I really appreciate all the info,it's very helpful. I will be using all this for future reference once I get started putting a load together.

Ammohead I know how you feel,I've been unemployed for over a year,hard to get your foot in the door when a couple hundred younger people apply for the same job,experience just doesn't seem to matter much anymore. When I think things are bad I just remember other have it a lot worse than me.

[Bret4207]

res- If Ed tells you something, chances are it's good info. Wish he posted here instead of CBA. Best of luck on the job search. I keep playing with the idea of seriously looking for an employer, but the family is "agin" it, so I remain retired, which I'm finding means not just tired, but REally TIRED!

[northmn]

One of the things that works for me in my CB loads is the use of the Lee tumble lube. So far when coating bullets with that, I may even do so twice, and filling grooves with regular lube I ahve had very good results. With a short necked cartridge like the 300S I feel tht it really helps and would only fill the bottom grooves with regular lube. I like to drive hunting bullets at around 2000 fps. Lee tumble lube is really not very expensive.

Northmn

[Tony65x55]

Thanks Guy's my friend order one of the Lee 170 gr. FP's today so I will get to try it out first and see how it does.

If it doesn't work I will try something different,Tony did you shoot the bullet as cast and would a Lee .309 sizer be correct for that mold? Thanks

Res, you really should slug your bore to find out the correct size and then size one or two thou over that. It is not uncommon for rifle barrels to be oversize and firing a .309 bullet in a .310 barrel is a guaranteed recipe for inaccuracy and leading. The beautiful thing about cast boolits is we can make 'em fit no matter what size you have and usually the Lee molds cast a few thou oversize.

From your question can I assume you are going to use the Lee sizer and not a Lubrisizer? Can I also assume you are intending on using the Lee tumble lube? What metal are you casting with?

So to answer your first question, yes and no. I shoot the 170 Lee as cast and tumble lubed twice for my plinkers. For a powder charge I use 7.5 gr. of Bullseye, no filler, no gas check. In the .300 case you will get about 1200 fps and usually, pretty decent plinking accuracy when cast from wheelweight metal, air cooled.

For full power loads I size at .309 or .310, depending on the gun, with gas check of course.

Buy the .309 sizer if your intention is to use the Lee equipment and if you need to open it up a tiny bit, it's easy and we can walk you through it. I hope this helps.

Tony

[redneckdan]

I've had good results with the lyman 190gr silhoute mould, the 190gr loverin style works good too. I have some sample lee 200gr round nose bullets I'll try and post the results.

[9.3X62AL]

Bret--

Our circs sound remarkably similar. How did all of these "honey-do" and "daughter detail" assignments get handled when I was working? And I don't have a farm to manage like you do.

I don't have any time in grade with a Savage 99 in 300, but I do have an older one in 250. It has the short throat and 1-14" twist as well. A boolit design that has worked VERY well for me is the NEI 100 grain spire point that resembles an RG-4 target boolit shrunk in the wash. It is either #19 or #20 on the NEI page www.neihandtools.com

Just kinda thinking out loud here, but maybe one of the RG-4 30 caliber designs might work--or one of the similar target designs with longer bore-ride and shorter drive band section.

[res45]

Thanks Guy's! I currently have three Lee TL molds I'm using. For 38/357 loads TL358-158 SWC, for 9mm loads TL356-124TC and Yugo,Chinese SKS and Mosin Nagant M44 CTL312-160-R2. All bullets are dropping about .01 over sized and 1 to 2 grs. over stated bullet weight on the pistol and 5 grs. over on the rifle mold.

I use straight WW alloy I melt down myself it all comes from the same car dealership,I have a couple hundred lbs. of ingots at the moment but I've only casted a couple hundred bullets form each mold for testing,I had the alloy tested and the BHN on the ACWW was 14,water quenched was right at 27.

I shoot the 9mm and 38/357 ACWW as cast from the same pistol Ruger BH convertible. I use two light coats of Alox thinned down with mineral spirits and have fired the 357 loads right at 1200 fps. on the chrono,I'm not getting any leading in either pistol caliber.

On the .312 mold I shoot as cast in the SKS rifles and M44,I apply the GC with a Lee .314 push through sizer,bullets drops for the mold right at .313 on the back driving band. I TL first apply the GC and TL once more.

I had some minor leading issues at first with the M44 I was using the WQWW bullets during the first test,afterwards I gave the bore a good working over to remove any copper residue from previous use of jacketed surplus and hand loads and did several cleaning secessions using a mix of Kroil oil and JB bore paste,afterwards I shot the same test over again using the ACWW and the 16.5 gr. load of Alliant 2400 and all seems fine now. I need some better sights on this rifle,I only paid $75 for it but its a good shooter. Here is the average 50yd. group I'm getting with the cast bullet.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/M44CastLoad.jpg

In the two SKS rifles I use the exact same bullet and lubing process as above. I have tried both bullets ACWW and WQWW and it seem to make no difference in accuracy and I'm not having any leading problems what so ever,in fact neither of my rifles when I broke them down for cleaning,the bore and gas system was noticeably cleaner than shooting the same amount of various hand loaded jacketed ammo as far as any buildup in the gas system. Both rifle will cycle with 12.5 grs. of 2400 and I get identical groups using 14.0 grs. as well,I just have to chase the brass further.

I was only shooting for accuracy and not point of aim so I have some sight tweaking yet to do,after I shot the group in the Chinese SKS I figured the Yugo would do the same but it shoots higher,I have some rds. loaded to figure that out but with all the rain and high winds it just wasting good lead and powder to try right now. Here are my two original 50 yd. test targets in both SKS rifles.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/YugoCastLoad-1-1.jpghttp://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/3ChineseCast.jpg

[corvette8n]

I got a bunch of 150gr fngc from a Lee mold cast and ready to go for my son in laws Savage 99, some day we will get together and try them.

[Bret4207]

Bret--

Our circs sound remarkably similar. How did all of these "honey-do" and "daughter detail" assignments get handled when I was working? And I don't have a farm to manage like you do.



Al, I really, truly don't know how anything got done at all when I was working. It's a mystery.

[helice]

Res,
As I was reading thru your post here:coffeecom I came to the conclusion that you needed C.E. Harris' mould for the 7.62X39. I read further and you already have it. That 160-2R should do you real fine. It's set up for the short neck of the Commie Carbine case. I'd give it a try. You might find it a good fit.:drinks: You may need to get a .311 Lee Push Thru Sizing die, but the 12.5 of A2400 you used on the SKS would be a great place to start. Helice

[res45]

helice my only concern is that the TL version I have if I size it down it's going to wipe out the TL grooves all together,on the other hand if I had the 155 gr. traditional grease groove version that would be a different story. I ran across a post a while back where somebody was using the 155 in the 300 sav.

I plan to slug the bore next week and see what it come out to before I make a move.

[helice]

I have used a .313 diameter boolit (LBT 313 115 FN) in the 30-30. I don't try to drive them very fast (1000'/s). I have used the expander from the 7.62X39 dies and bell the neck a bit. The question is whether the oversized slug will still allow the case to fit in the chamber. You might want to make a dummy round with that C.E. Harris boolit and give it a try in your 99. If it fits ok you may not need to swage it down. With air cooled wheel weight boolits you shouldn't have problems with leading. They'll be hard enough (gas checked) and soft enough to swage in the bore. Might be worth a try???? Helice

[helice]

Res 45,
You might want to try building a dummy round with that boolit. If it fits in the chamber unsized you may not need to size it at all. Try it out and give me a shout. I still think it would work fine in the 300.
I have two 99s. A 308 and a 250-3000. They are fantastic rifles. I believe that if you get this Harris designed boolit to work you'll really enjoy shooting it.

[res45]

helice a buddy of mine gave me some of his Lee 150 and 170 gr. bullets to make some dummy rd. from I like the flatter nose on the two lee designs especially if I end up using the bullet as a hunting bullet.

I'm out of town right now but first of the week I will slug the bore on the 300,his bullets are dropping right at .310.5 using WW alloy We both share the casting equipment and alloy and buy molds we can both use it cuts down on the cost and once I find something that works I can cast up enough bullets in a good afternoon to last me for a couple years. I shoot a little bit of everything I have but not a whole lot at one time so my loaded ammo and components last me awhile.

I will keep your suggestion in mind,the Lee TL 160 at .312.5 as cast and GC'ed works great in my SKS and M44,my problem is getting the weather to cooperate long enough to get out and do some test.

[dominicfortune00]

In an old Ideal Hand Book, it list the 311414 as;
'Standard Bullet for Savage .300 cal. rifle. Gas-check bullet designed like factory bullet to fit the throat of Savage .300.'

[res45]

Well I just came in from trying my Lee 150 gr. RNFP cast loads in the 300 Sav. I think it turned out good. I have no irons on the rifle and had never set the scope up on it since I put it on .

I just made a guess as to where the drums should be and went for it,I got on paper with the first shot at 50 yds. and adjusted till I got close to center and fired the rest of my rds. to see how they would group. I want to work on the load a bit more when conditions are better for shooting. The tight cluster of six shots was the last six I fired,I had just cleaned the bore the night before probably just need to get fouled a little.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/300Savage-1.jpg

[helice]

Great shoting res45. Looks like you found a winner. Did you try a dummy of the Harris boolit? I have a 99 in 308 and have been looking at that Harris boolit for a long time now? You can be my "Check it Out" man. Helice

[9.3X62AL]

Isn't it great when a plan comes together? Lotta potential there, for sure. I would be VERY happy with that sort of shooting in any sporter.

[Tony65x55]

Res, very nice. I'm glad it worked out for you.

[res45]

Thanks guy,I'm sure it will end up shooting better. This was my first dry run with the load Ed Harris recommended for me to start with,I had to use my 54r expander ball to size the necks big enough,I didn't want to squeeze my bullet anymore than I had to.

I didn't have the best of setups to shoot with today,I kinda put together a quick card table shooting bench and a piece of foam packing for a rifle rest. Next time around I will be a bit more methodical with the test.

Helice the only reason I haven't tried the Harris bullet in the 300 yet is the expander ball issue being the bullet is right at .313 I fear it may just squeeze the bullet to much with my current setup. I need to call Lyman and see about getting a larger expander ball for my 300 Sav. dies anyways.

[helice]

When I load the fatter boolits I take the expander out of the 7.62 X 39 dies and use that. It works for me.

[res45]

helice I loaded up a few test rds. today using the Lee .312 160 gr. TL bullet,they all cycled through the rifle with no problems. I measured the inside neck dia of a couple random fired cases and it was .313 so the fatter .312.5 bullet fits just fine.

Were getting snowed on down here in NC tonight,maybe one day this week I can get out and see how they shoot. I will keep you posted.

[Deputy Dog]

my savage loves the 150 lee gc what little I have loaded shot 1 inch at seventy five yards lubed with spg and 24 grs of 2200 data havent checked vel on crony but it shoots good usin lyman no.2 lead

[res45]

Nice shooting DD,I'm kind tied down to just shooting and doing my test in the back yard at 50 yds. at the moment,all the snow and rain has all my long range test fields so muddy you can't even walk in them.

My only other option is to go to the public range but it and hour and a half drive away and with the money supply short thats a lot of gas to burn up,it kinda works out though I usually make a day of it when I go and get lots of free range brass if I hit it right.

Right now I'm just trying to work on some bullet/loads combinations that shoot well so when the time comes and I can get my gear all set up not only can I try them out at distance but get some good chrono data as well,I would like to eventually get a load combo up to around 2000 fps. that should take care of the average size deer in my part of the country from a tree stand at 75 yds. max range.

I moved my charge weight of 2400 up to 16.0 grs even from the 15.0 I was using last time around to see how they do I noticed the Lyman manual mentions that 20.0 grs is an accuracy load but thats not with the bullets I'm using although they are similar in weight and style we will see.

[Muskrat Mike]

My 99 and my buddies 99 shoot true 5 shot 1" groups at 100yds with the Lee C309 150F sized .309 and loaded with 15 gr of SR4759 with a 2.475 oal. The load is funny looking but very accurate and very pleasant to shoot. I haven't shot it over the chrono It just is too much fun to shoot and too accurate for me to worry about fps.:-D

[res45]

Thanks MM I appreciate the info on your results,my reloading and casting buddy has loaded up so test ammo using the SR powder in his 30-30 with the Lee 150 and 170 gr. bullets,I may try some of it in my 300 Sav. load at some point.

My whole idea behind using the 2400 is mainly due to cost and the ability to use the same powder in multiple cartridges,I already have loads worked up for my 357 mag,7.62 x 39 and 54r that work well using it and now I'm doing test with it in the 300 Sav.

My whole idea behind starting casting bullets was not based on being able to shoot more or cheaper although that is certainty one of the benefits,but to provide ammo for all my weapons,a gun without a bullet is just another club.

I don't want to have to depend on some store for my next box of ammo,we all know where that has gone over the past year or so if you didn't reload or cast your own bullets for some calibers you did without ammo and what you did fine was way overpriced.

I'm an old school guy,born and raised in the 50's,life was hard and uncertain at times out in the sticks, but I still live here and love it,I hunted to put food on the table when I was a young boy and still do to an extent especially in this economy,if nothing else my gun will feed and defend me and my family and friends. I like having backup plans when the original or most ideal of plans falls apart.

[Deputy Dog]

]Hay guys I havent had time to shoot my lever guns so I did the next best thing I bought a 336 in 35 rem have any one played with this round in a marlin just wondering what a good boolit and load might be to start with.If it shoots as good as my 32 spl I will be one happy camper

[helice]

res45,
Good to read your recent posts. Looks to me like you're on the right track. Is that 160 grain TL Lee the CE Harris boolit for the 7.62X39 that you mentioned earlier? Keep us informed on how these loads work for you.

[res45]

helice I have some of the Lee 160 gr. TL bullets loaded but haven't gotten to shoot them as of yet,weather just want cooperate to do any shooting yet. I will post my results as soon as I do good or bad.

Looks like one day next week things might look promising,I have some Military surplus X51 brass I converted to 300 Sav. and several different loads I want to shoot.

[helice]

Keep us posted. Helice

[res45]

I got out this morning and fired my test rds, in the 99 300 Sav. using the Lee GC TL 160 gr. bullet water quenched WW I had been using in my SKS. I had the sights set up for the Lee 150 grs. RNFP from last week so I changed nothing. I just wanted to see how they would do I used the same load of 15.0 grs. of 2400.

5 shot cold clean bore@50 yds. with about a 15 MPH cross wind.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/Picture018-2.jpg

My steel target holder rail got in the way of one of my boolits
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/Picture023.jpg

[res45]

Guys I have a question. Should I consider drilling out the flash hole on the brass I have set aside for my X39,54r and 300 Sav. that I shoot cast bullet loads in using the Alliant 2400 powder.

Seem like I had read somewhere that it helps with reliable ignition and keep the shoulder of the case from being set back. I use a 12.5 and 14.0 gr. load in my x39 cases and 15.0 to 16.0 in my 54r and 300 Sav. cases, the x39 and 54r are regular commercial cases the 300 Sav. case I will be using for cast loads are made from surplus 7.62 x 51 NATO brass.

If so what is the recommended size to enlarge the flash holes to,I don't have any of the # bits so I will be working with standard bits in 64's and 32's. Thanks.

[Tony65x55]

I'd be careful here. Lyman makes a tool called the flash hole uniformer and it does what it says. Over enlarge the flash hole and you'll be plagued with flattened and blown primers even with normal pressure loads.

[res45]

I found the quote I was looking for by C.E. Harris,just wondering if anyone does it,I see I can take the 54r out of the mix.


Repeated loading of rimless cases with very mild loads results in the primer blast shoving the shoulder back, unless flash holes are enlarged with a No. 39 drill bit to 0.099" diameter. Cases which are so modified must never be used with full powered loads! Always identify cases which are so modified by filing a deep groove across the rim and labeling them clearly to prevent their inadvertent use. For this reason on I prefer to do my plain based practice shooting in rimmed cases like the 30-30, 30-40 Krag, 303 British and 7.62x54R which maintain positive headspace on the rim and are not subject to this limitation.

[Deputy Dog]

Has anyone tried cast boolits in a micro grove barrel with any good results I have herd bad things about lead and micro grove barrels. I am sure some of you lead slinger could advise me. I am thinkig you will have to make them hard due to the micro-groove being so shallow.

[helice]

Res 45,
Spotted your target post from the 16th. Very nicely done. Helice

[res45]

DD I don't shoot one but this article might give you some ideas on MicroGroove barrels.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin-MicroGroove.htm

[Deputy Dog]

DD I don't shoot one but this article might give you some ideas on MicroGroove barrels.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin-MicroGroove.htm

res45 thanks that was well worth reading

[res45]

Ran some loads over the chrono today,results as followed in 5 shot strings.

All bullets were TL with Alox/JPW mix.

Lee 150 gr. .311 RNFP GC
Case RP 300 Sav.
Win. LR primer
15 grs. Alliant 2400
Low 1485
High 1546
Avg. 1521

Same bullet,case and primer
18 grs. Alliant 2400
Low 1718
High 1762
Avg. 1745

Lee 160 gr. TL .312 RNFP GC
Case Converted LC/91 7.62 x 51 brass to 300 Sav.
Win. LR primer
15 grs. Alliant 2400
Low 1607
High 1630
Avg. 1619

Same bullet,case and primer
18 grs. Alliant 2400
Low 1731
High 1780
Avg. 1751