Never a fan of annealing

[jonk]

A lot of users say to anneal after X number of firings to keep work hardened necks pliable and useful. To prevent neck splits. And so on.

In theory, I grasp this.

Every time I've tried it though, I did the old 'put it in a pan of water and heat the neck till it just starts to glow, then tip it over routine'. I even used 2 torches to heat from both sides more uniformly. And generally speaking, after I anneal, my group size opens up. not to mention I've had some get so soft they either crumple when sized, or split.

I'm thinking that in eyeballing it, it just isn't consistent enough. Different cases get different amounts of heat, resulting in different brass hardness and slightly different neck tension and release charachteristics. I've seen some impressive rigs set up with a rotary table to ensure each case is annealed uniformly. And I think that might solve the issue.

However, not having one, not wanting to build one, and certainly not wanting to buy one, I'd rather deal with a case that cracks and gets scrapped after 10-15 firings than a bunch with differing hardnesses.

What am I missing? Convince me otherwise. :bigsmyl2:

[Tom W.]

You ain't gonna get an argument from me....

[405]

Your points are well taken. I use a different technique. Heat necks individually by using a hand held rotisserie bamboo skewer and a propane flame, judge color and length of effect, quench. My opinion is that this method gives very consistent results... strange as it seems!

When I get to shooting a lot of straight walled, low pressure type stuff for single shots and a few old lever cartridges. I anneal all after about 3 firings. I minimally neck size only and just enough to hold the bullet in place. I can not tell or feel variablility in bullet neck tension among cases so treated. I use fairly fast, bulky type smokeless or BP in these- so maximum neck tension is not critical. I see really long case life and no smoked necks after firing. If I do not anneal with these type loads- smoked necks are a common reality.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Now you realise why I use the melted lead pot immersing procedure for a more uniform heating of the necks.Robert

[Jim]

I set up my plumber's torch by clamping it(gently) in the vise. I put a short piece of 1/4" steel rod in my cordless drill. Drop the case on the rod, set the drill to spinning, place in flame until gold color appears and drop the case off the rod into a bucket of water. Done. I can run through a couple hunnerd in a short time like this.

[Recluse]

Most problems with annealing come from getting the brass too hot. There are two simple solutions to this:

1. Temp sticks. These are like crayons that are temperature sensitive to certain degrees of heat. I haven't used them in eons, but they're not a bad thing to have around.

2. Anneal with the lights out. An old guy in the service taught me this trick many years ago. He said most people let the brass get too hot--and in daylight or under the lights, it's easy to do.

When I'm going to anneal a batch of brass, I get everything set up--my torch, gloves, spinner and tray of water. (Arguments about the merits of water notwithstanding--but I'll always prefer to drop them in water afterwards).

Then, I turn out the lights. I reload and cast and all things gun-related in my workshop. I have three windows in the shop, and I pull down the shades. I get just enough ambient light so that I can safely see what I'm doing.

As soon as I see the brass begin to turn blue, *plunk* it goes into the water. When it's dark, you'll see the color change a lot faster than when you're standing under good/bright light.

I've been annealing like this for I don't know how long, and it has served me extremely well.

:coffee:

[scrapcan]

It also helps to have clean brass. It can be hard to see the cooler colors with tarnished and dirty brass.

[gray wolf]

It also helps to have clean brass. It can be hard to see the cooler colors with tarnished and dirty brass.
The shine-e-er the better.
Recluse just about nailed it perfectly --and he posted it while I was typing.
I agree with his method and mine is about the same.

I agree on the cost of the machines to treat the case necks, for the people that must have them because they want them that's--fine. Some bench rest shooters use them with success.
If you are crushing cases you have made them to soft, it is easy to over heat them.
It is best done in a darkened room so you can watch the color. If you see orange you are cooking the zinc out of the brass=a no,no. You want a VERY faint glow just after a bluish tint.
There are some folks that will say a bright red or orange color--trust me it is to hot.
Also as you know I am sure , but for others that may read this ALWAYS PROTECT THE CASE HEAD FROM HEAT. iF YOU SOFTEN THAT PART YOU COULD HAVE CASE HEAD SEPARATION.
And we don't want that now do we.
I my self use a Chinese chop stick put into the end of a socket head that the case head fits into without to much wiggle room. It sits about half way into the socket head. (protects the case head)
I have a bowl of cold water near by. I try to remove as much light from the area as possible and still be able to see what I am doing. Then I rotate the case about 1/2 inch into the flame of my propane torch--not map gas, concentrating the flame just above the shoulder but not on the delicate spot just at the very tip of the neck. a blueish area will form to about 1/4 inch below the shoulder and the neck will start to take on a glow. At that exact time I quench in the cold water. Do two or three and count the seconds it takes. Practice on some old cases.
If you over heat them it can't be reversed.
Your groups ( I will guess have changed because of different neck tension)
If you wish to spend a little money Hornady sells a neck treating kit for this purpose.
It comes with a paint called temp lack. you paint the case neck and it changes color when the temperature of the temp lack is reached. That is a way for some that just can't get the hand of it doing it other ways,and that is no slur it is a tricky thing to do.
I believe the lead dip method is used by many people. I am sure some will help out here with how they keep the lead from sticking to the brass. Some say it just does not happen
some say it does. I believe the correct Temp. for the brass is about 650* F. I will be corrected if I am wrong I am sure.
I said a lot here it took a Min. I hope it helps you. This can be frustrating when it gets messed up.

[lead Foot]

I thought it was ony me that thought that way. I too do not have sucess annealing
brass. I have just bought another Omark target rifle in 7.62 nato the chamber is a lot tighter then the other one I have so I have to full length resize. The brass was so hard I nerely broke my press. I too find unannealed brass more accurate.I have come back to using military brass ADI 7.62 (Autralian Defense Industry's) I use the Lee neck Collet die. My group are tighter with no flyer's now. Although the Omark is nearly 30 years old it has made a huge diferance. So I think brass is a big factor.
Here is pic's from two weeks ago.
Lead foot;

[cbrick]

Regardless of which method you use annealing brass is an art form, it takes practice. Even with the extremely well made Ken Light BC-1000 annealing machine it takes some practice to get the torch setting (distance from torch to case neck) and flame adjustment correct.

Variations in neck tension will cause variation in powder ignition, especially with the slower powders. Incorrect annealing will result in each neck being annealed more or less than the others. If you anneal too much your brass may be all the same but you'll have little to no neck tension to grip the boolit.

Of course annealing works. Every single piece of brass you have ever fired has been annealed at the factory, most new brass has also been tumbled so you don't see the color change of annealing. There is some new brass that has not been tumbled and the color change can be seen but it has all been annealed. If it didn't work how can the factories do it? It does work but your method must give uniform annealing to each and every piece of brass.

Rick

[Bass Ackward]

It does work but your method must give uniform annealing to each and every piece of brass.

Rick


In addition, you can NOT think that you can perform a single process for all brass.

Every cartridge has a different anneal requirement. Even brass of the same cartridge can vary between different manufacturers.

That which would work on a 44 Mag at 44 Special pressures it entirely different from a full pressure situation. In the end, if a case needs to be annealed, it is probably best to have it move down the pressure chain for your loads.

In other words, if you shoot nothing but full power, buy new brass. Or .... if you want factory uniformity and performance, buy new brass.

[AkMike]

Or you could anneal using a set up like this that's quick and easy.

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/9735/t/F-S-Case-holder-for-Annealing-Snider-and-Martini-cases.html

[jmorris]

If the case glows you've got it too hot. I built a machine to make the process consistant


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/DSC01810.jpg

here is a link to videos and more photos http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/

and this is a good read on the subject http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

[DLCTEX]

I use the same procedure as Recluse except I use an adapter for 3/8 sockets in my cordless drill and choose a socket that loosely holds the case to spin it while heating. Then tilt to drop the case into water. It definately extends the life of cases, especially 22 Hornet.

[elk hunter]

I anneal only those cases that are too precious to loose, i.e. can't be easily found or made and are high cost which in my case has been as high as $8.00 each. I hold the case in my fingers and turn it in a propane torch flame until it just starts to show a slight color change, not glowing in any sense of the word, and then dip it neck first in water. If it's common and easy to replace I don't bother.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I used to try annealing with an acetylene torch and pan of water. Recipe produces both burned and unannealed cases.

Now days, I chuck them in a 1/2 drill motor and slowly spin them in the blue flame of my Coleman lead pot heater. Its a much less severe heat source and darker, allowing me to see the color change. Quinching is not needed. Just pull out of the flame and the anneal is arrested.

I mainly anneal 8mm'06 brass so I can size them in my RCBS Jr. After 2 to 3 firings, they're to much for that little press to handle, until annealed.

I do anneal nickel .357s and get considerably more life out of them, although I don't intentionally buy them, they come to me in range brass. For the nickel cases, I don't see a color change just do a time-based guess and get good enough results to keep me doing it every 1/2 dozen or so firings.

[Blacksmith]

Here is a link to the Tempil company web site makers of Tempilstiks, Tempilaq liquids and other temperature indicating devices. Available for temperatures from 100F to 2000F.
http://www.tempil.com/index.asp

Blacksmith

[nicholst55]

Here's what I use: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=360902

They don't offer a case holder that will hold .45-70, so I had to improvise one.

[Nrut]

I don't anneal my case necks but think I'll give it a try after reading this thread a few days ago..
Von Gruff's set up is cheap and consistent as he gets very good cast groups at over 2400fps with his 7X57..
Take a look at the number of reloadings Seafire is getting from his annealed cases.. Unreal!
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6711043/m/6501087801

[Buckshot]

...........One of the most important points is to be consistent. Boolit/bullet pull is VERY important especially with smokless powder. Several benchrest shooters with lots of money tied up in premium brass anneal even with their tight chambers, but after annealing they will use the brass in testing for a couple load/fire/reload cycles before they again get used for match shooting as a freshly annealed caseneck can be too soft for their use.

..............Buckshot

[abunaitoo]

I took an old microwave, took it apart and cut out the turn table.
Mounted it on some wood.
Wire it directly to the cord.
Put a pan of water on it. I put a few cubes of ice in it.
I put a X in the center of the pan so I know where to set the shell.
Plug it in and set a shell on the X.
Heat it with a propane torch.
Knock it over when it's time.
I have a small pan, but I can do about 20 shells before I have to empty it.
I polish the brass first so I can see the blue move down the neck.
Got the micro free off craig's list.
Pan was from goodwill.
Propane torch I had.
Total cost $1.00.
I'm planing to make a swinging arm to hold the torch.
Cheap is good.

[Wayne Smith]

Another one for the lead pot 750-800 degrees. Simple, easy, and immediately available. Noticable softening of the brass results, noticable in case reforming operations on my RCBS JR3 press.

[Freightman]

Another one for the lead pot 750-800 degrees. Simple, easy, and immediately available. Noticable softening of the brass results, noticable in case reforming operations on my RCBS JR3 press.
Yep !

[rickster]

I spin them in my bare fingers (held at the cool end of course) for a couple of quick rotations in a propane torch flame. Then drop them in a (dry) pan to air cool. My fingers quickly tell me (ouch) if I am keeping them in the flame too long. I know most think a water quench is necessary, but air cooling works better for me. The metal is thin enough to air cool very quickly. IMO the typical tipping over water quench method results in uneven quenching, unless you have figured out some way to drop them into the water in a vertical orientation. The falling off a spinning rod approach described above sounds worth a try.

[bohokii]

the only rifle round i reload with some frequency is .223 and i figure by the time it needs to be annealed its been trimmed enough to start to worry about the thinning of the sidewalls

how many firings till an anneal? i figure after about 5 loadings and how ever many trimmings that took i worry about case head sep

[Horace]

Spinning case on brass rod works great!

Horace