Lyman vs Saeco

[lykoris]

They say experience is the best teacher, as such I wanted to ask you guys for your input.

I have read a lot on casting over these past months.

I want to go with 4 cavity moulds but my choice, based on what is available in Europe is between Lyman EUR90 and Saeco(Redding) EUR160.

I'm just wondering is the Saeco worth the EUR70 extra?

Given it will be impossible to acquire a Star lubrisizer, from what I've read the Saeco unit would be the next best alternative? Otherwise Lyman 4500

I'm afraid there are certain items unavailable from online stores in Europe and locally gunsmiths don't stock casting equipment...which is insane given the price of bullets and so my alternative is Grafs in the US for shipping to Europe. Anybody know how long they take to replenish stock from Saeco? They seem to be 'out of stock' in many items for quite some time now.

I appreciate any responses, I realize as another 'newb' it can be painful to reply to the same questions but I couldn't find direct comparisons on the 4 cavity moulds.

Many thanks :wink:

[Cadillo]

If you truly want a useful answer, a little more information would be of help. Such as, what caliber do you intend to load, what specific moulds are you considering, and what gun(s) do you intend to shoot it in.

Many here have experience with specific bullets and their usage in specific firearms. A bullet might work great in one gun, but be impossible in another. Don't ask me how I know. :idea:

[lykoris]

Cadillo,

I want to cast specifically for .45acp more than the other calibers but also for

.45acp - HK45(polygonal barrel)
.357mag - 2.5" colt python
9mm para - Browning HP

I will also soon have in .45acp a colt commander and colt gold cup national match.

I've used lead in the HK45 without any problems even with the polygonal barrel.

Unfortunately given I'm in Europe we have a limited choice :( So I was thinking of going with these moulds in 45

http://www.smartreloader.com/saeco-precision-bullet-mould-45-225grs-tcbb-p-2035.html
http://www.smartreloader.com/saeco-precision-bullet-mould-45-225grs-rn-p-2039.html

This for the 9mm
http://www.smartreloader.com/saeco-precision-bullet-mould-9mm38-super-145grs-rnbb-p-2038.html

and for the .357(I only use 38 loads in the .357)

http://www.smartreloader.com/saeco-precision-bullet-mould-38357-magnum35-super-148grs-wc-p-2031.html

The only other supplier available online only acts as a Lyman distributor
http://shooting-supplies.eu/main/MOLDING-AND-CASTING.c85.html

The sizing dies will have to come from Grafs though as smartreloader is out of them for 45.

I'm looking to spend about EUR1200 on equipment so I can start to say :castmine: :mrgreen:

[gray wolf]

45acp - HK45(polygonal barrel)-----------:groner:

You may want to check about that barrel--they tend to lead up and if you don't stay ahead of it the situation could raise barrel and chamber pressure to a DANGEROUS Level
As for molds you may get a little better mold for the extra money, I say the cavities might run a little truer from hole to hole. But many people are happy with Lyman for pistol bullets. Could someone ship you Lee molds and save you some money? Trouble perhaps--money yes.
As for the sizer the Lyman works pretty well for many people myself included.
Hope I helped.

[fredj338]

I prefer the Saeco molds made today to the Lyman made today. Saeco alos makes 3cav molds I believe, a bit easier to handle w/o much loss in production. As to the Star/Magma sizer, why not have someone here buy it & send it to you? They aren't really heavy so shiping would not be over the top.

[testhop]

rcbs maks a better sizer.than lyman dies will work in eather
but if you are going to do a lot of sizing go to star.
then theres always the saeco .
i have the lyman, saeco and ,2 stars
each has its own good points and bad

[scrapcan]

You might also check some of the custom mold makers that might ship to you. Some of the custom moulds are being made on your side of the pond, Mihec. CBE in Australia might also have what you want. OR depending on what you want, there maybe opportunity to get in on one of hte group buys have have it shipped to your side of the pond.

[Echo]

I use mostly Lyman molds, but have most other makes. My Lymans are all 'legacy' or 'vintage', and as such, were well made. I have no experience with new Lyman or SAECO molds.

But, based on what I hear and read, and given your budget, I would suggest going with the SAECO's. A Star lube/sizer sells for about $250 (don't know how that translates to Euros) - I'm sure the good folks at Queen Creek, AZ, would be able to ship it to you, and you would have the best lube/sizer around.

That leaves the furnace. You didn't mention it - maybe you already have one. Any you get will work fine, just some will be finer than others. Again, given your budget I would suggest an RCBS 20-pounder. I hear they are great.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Lyman once upon a time made decent stuff, but recently their quality control has gone downhill in the mold department; they make a lot of undersize molds that either have to be tinkered with or sent back. Saeco in my experience has made molds that are good, with the option of 2,3, or 4 cavities, They are however more costly. I lived in Europe for a long time and prices on all US reloading equipment was always rediculously overpriced. The best solution to that nonsense is to get in touch with a US military member or US civilian that has access to the APO/FPO mail system and have them order it for you and ship it to you. No customs are involved. As for Lubrisizers, Star is widely accepted as the best if you can afford it. I have had 2 of the Saecos for over 20 years and they have workd well for me. Their top punches are the screw in type and are not compatible with other brands and they are also a bit on the pricey side. However you order, don't confine yourself to Grafs; Punch up Midouthshooterssupply.com and either look over their on-line catalog or request one to be sent. They have good prices and are decent on the shipping. They don't have too much Saeco stuff, however much other to choose from. Do the same with another source which is Midway USA.com. They have a good inventory including a lot of Saeco. Prices aren't too bad although they have sometime been a little large on their shipping. If you can effectively make a contact with someone who has access to the APO or FPO you will avoid the overcharging, customs and out of stock/don't carry it games and as such be able to have good equipment at a sensible cost.. LLS

[lykoris]

gray wolf,

HK told me there isn't any problem shooting lead out of a polygonal barrel and whilst I was mindful of checking for leading after every magazine for the first 200 rounds I didn't for the last 1,400. I normally shoot 200 in a session.

I realize glock and their poly barrel is a different story given their explicit warning in their operating manual and using lead boolits.

Fredj338,

Well it looks like the saeco molds get the nod of approval.

testhop,

Which would you recommend for somebody looking to lube/size 1,000 or so a month as you have all three lubrisizers?

manleyjt,
I had read a number of threads on here over the past months on custom molds and those casters with more years under their belt as it were said they were worth substantially more despite the increased cost....but as I'm only starting out casting I thought I should focus more on the process to begin with and later look at upgrading to custom material if the need arises to match the perfect boolit per handgun. Perhaps that is an incorrect approach but I thought it would be more prudent that way.

Thanks for the helpful comments, it greatly assists me in selecting what I need to pick up.

I wish I had the selection you lucky devils enjoy in the U.S. Things are extremely limited in choice over here for casting equipment when you don't live in a country to which Midway will ship :cry:

[Dollar Bill]

The simple answer is you get what you pay for. I recently bought a Lyman 311299 and Saeco 315. Both are 2 cavity 30 cal molds. The Saeco has about 25% more mass, better fit and finish, cast beautiful bullets right from the start and drop right from the mold as it opens.
The Lyman, well, I'm currently going thru all the usual gyrations required to get one to cast good bullets. A couple hundred more and they should, and I want to emphasis should, start casting decent bullets.

[lykoris]

Echo,

for the furnace I was going to go with the Lee 4-20, as it is the only one available
http://www.smartreloader.com/lee-pro-420-melter-220v-p-3598.html

I was going to get the RCBS but the last 240volt one was taken at Grafs in the last few days. I wouldn't mind waiting but I'm eager to get started.

le loup solitaire,

looks like I'll have to find some friendly GIs stationed in Germany :-) I don't mind being hit for customs, I don't enjoy it but as I've learnt from building up my reloading equipment it all has to come from the U.S.

I just wish sinclair international had a casting section and grafs replenished their stock more often...but from what I understand with the prolonged ammunition shortage a lot of things have been bought up.

[scrapcan]

lykoris,

Where are you located? It looks like you are in Germany? There are quite a few non US folks on the board, they may be able to help in your quest also.

And you might want to check to see what are restricted import items to you area. Then some entity in the US can check to see what is restricted export on this end.

Don't rule out the custom makers becasue of your newness, they may be able to supply old standard designs that will do what you need.

You might email Midsouth Shooters Supply in the US to see if they will export to you.

[243winxb]

The lymans seem to drop bullets very close to the correct diameter .452", using indoor range scrap alloy. The Saeco's drop larger. The last ones were bought around 1996. For the 45acp, i like the Lyman 200gr BB, but lube is left on the bevel and must be wiped off, extra work. Have also tumble lube this bullet as it drops from the mould using Xlox. Worked well. No sizing needed.Otherwise, sizing in an old Lyman 450. Lee 10lb pot. Click for larger view. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_CastBullets_20090207_005.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/CastBullets_20090207_005.jpg) http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_CastBullets_20090207_004.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/CastBullets_20090207_004.jpg) The Lyman 44cal 245gr has the wrong mould number on it.

[MtGun44]

If you can get RCBS molds, they are very high quality and their 45 - 201 gr SWC mold is very
accurate and feeds very reliably. The Lyman 452460 has been THE most accurate boolit
for multiple 1911 pistols (Colt, Kimber and Dan Wesson). The 45-201 is similar to the H&G
68, one of the most often used boolits for IPSC competion in .45 ACP. I have fired hundreds
of thousands of them. You can get a Balisticast mold for the 68, they took over the designs
when H&G closed shop.

The RCBS molds seem to be much more durable than the Lyman, seems like a harder
material that doesn't dent or scratch as easily as the Lyman. Of course, the aluminum molds
are FAR softer than any of the iron molds.

If you want the Star, Magma is still selling them, may ship to Europe. If not, I like the
RCBS lubrisizer very much, although the Lyman 450 is very close.

I only have a few Saeco molds, they are nice, but the cast undersized and the boolits
are nearly useless for me. High quality, but if they can't get the size right. . . . . .

Bill

[lykoris]

I'm just over the border from Germany in Luxembourg...and midway won't ship here :violin:

I've had a good look at Midsouth Shooters Supply and pleased to have found another US dealer that ships internationally.

The prices of some things here even after factoring in f/x rates/customs/excise duties etc. is really ridiculous at times.

Thanks for all the input, it has given me some ideas to mull over. I think I will go with the Star and the RCBS pot.

[HORNET]

lykoris, welcome to the fun. This is the best place on the 'net to find info on cast boolits. Read through the stickies and classics while you're waiting for delivery and ask questions as needed. Learn to use the search function and there's tons of answers waiting. Sounds like you're planning on starting with excellent equipment.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hello again, I used to live near the Lux/German border and often went to Lux via Echternach. The old USAF base at Bitburg where I worked is now closed, but the sisterbase at Spangdahlem which is 16 KM east of Bitburg on Route (Bundestrasse) 50 is still open and will be for a long time. They probably have a Rod & Gun Store, range, restaurant and bar. Bring your passport and get a vistors pass at the gate. You might be surprised at what and who you find there; The US Rod & Gun system in Germany is local national friendly and has reciprocal types of membership arrangements. Thry take $ and Euros. Its not too far of a drive from Echternach, very scenic and might be worth your while on a weekend afternoon. Bonne chance. LLS