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Lee
06-04-2006, 05:03 PM
I have a chance to acquire a Pedersoli .45-70 rolling block reproduction. Various literatures indicate this animal can handle smokeless powder in moderate loadings, as the steel is modern, and weak points in the original designs have been beefed up.
I'm only interested in moderate smokeless loadings with cast bullets in this piece. Does anyone have any experience with this particular combination??? (I'd hate to be wearing parts of the rifle on my face).?????

Thanks in advance for any comments and advice.......................Lee:)

Bullshop
06-04-2006, 07:05 PM
That thing will handle anything a Marlin will and possibly up to a Ruger #1.
There was an old rifle article where Ken Waters equaled 458 win mag ballistics with a Ped. roller chambered for the 458 RCBS.
I have seen some origonal #5s chambered for some hot rounds like 219 Donaldson wasp and 222 Rem.
The Ped roller is a way strong action that I dont worry about any loads I can tollerate recoil with.
BIC/BS

KCSO
06-04-2006, 07:29 PM
Bullshop is right about the loads, but I would offer this caveat...
The rolling block action with higher pressures will streach the cases. There is spring in the action. When you get to the point that the cases won't chamber fully in all positions that should be your stopping point. I had a N/A rolly block for my BP rifle for a while and shot many rounds through it. I did use a reamer and lengthen the leade and lapped the barrel and that rifle would really shoot. If I remember right I ordered that gun from some outfit on sale for $149.95 and it was sold as the Buffalo Rifle. It had a 28" full octogon bbl and weighed right at 11 pounds. I keep looking at the Bodine rifle, but I just got my Sharps working.

straightshooter1
06-05-2006, 12:23 PM
I recently sold my Pedersoli RB, but it worked really well with smokeless loads. I used 33.6 grains of IMR 4198 with a gas checked 405 cast bullet. Recoil not unreasonable, accuracy excellent. Also, 25 grains of same powder shot well.

The only reason I sold it was to downsize my "collection" and I kept the Pedersoli Sharps which I found to shoot as well or better. I use it mostly with BP loads.

Bob

Lee
06-06-2006, 12:29 AM
Thanks guys I appreciate the input. Now I'll have to see if I can snag this toy for my collection.
(Got a Pedersoli Sharps, like it, and that's why I posted in the first place..........Lee:)

Buckshot
06-09-2006, 03:29 AM
.............I had the Pedersoli Creedmore RB in 45-70, but ended up selling it to finance a Perdersoli Super Match RB in 40-65. I have a bunch of 45-70's :-). Before I had the shift I work now (weekend nights) I used to shoot our club's "Cowboy" silhuette match. They just called it "Cowboy" for lack of a better term for shooting cast lead. It was open to any cast lead rifle with iron sights.

So it turned out that one match weekend something had come up and I wasn't going to be able to shoot so I didn't bother loading any ammo for it. Then it was either the night before or maybe even the morning of the match but whatever the deal that was supposed to have kept me from going disappeared. As luck would have it I had exactly 40 rounds of 45-70 on hand, but it really wasn't what one would use for a 200 yard max distance silhuette match as a 405 at 1250 fps will take a ram.

The rifle was superbly accurate with a lot of loads, but one of the best was the Lee 458-450F over a casefull of 4895. I'd loaded the ammo to check it out at 100 and 200 yards, and it was a real thumper. That 450gr Lee is one FINE hunting boolit too, BTW. So anyway I used that ammo kinda just going from previous sight settings to use'em. The chickens weren't any big deal as the 50 yard sight settings I had for the 405gr slugs worked fine.

Lemme tellya, when those chickens were hit they'd whomp the ground and slide backwards 10' in the dirt! The best though was this one pig. I hit it and the thing went up in the air and turned a couple somersaults and came back down and stuck in the ground upside down :-). The guy (Leo) calling the match called over the loudspeaker, "No trick shooting on the line Rick!" HA!

One other pig I hit slid straight back maybe 4' off the rail and just set there a second and then fell forward.

..............Buckshot

windwalker
06-09-2006, 11:42 AM
lee here is a page on the persoli cartridge riffles http://www.bpcr.net/index-a.htm when you bring up this site click on tech info and scroll down till you see the heading Dick Trenk - Pedersoli Proof Test Rules and Allowable Limits. it is a good read and a good guid for the gun you are interested in. this is part of the page.
PEDERSOLI PROOF TESTING STATEMENT

All Pedersoli rifles are proof tested at the (Italian government) National Firing Proof House with smokeless powder cartridges with a pressure exceeding that of the ‘commercial’ factory made ammunition by 30 %.

For the .45-70 caliber we normally recommend the use of commercially made ammunition because of it being easily available on the world market. We show here some warnings about C.I.P. rules:

C.I.P WARNING

Our guns are proof tested according to the rules imposed by C.I.P. (International Proof Commission). Proof test pressure is 30% stronger than the maximum pressure of a commercial cartridge (Pmax.) Pmax pressures are measured in BAR units.

bernie:-D

Lee
06-10-2006, 12:51 AM
More thanks! And especially for the link. I'll look them up tonight. I'm gonna try real hard to get this one, based on what I've heard here. So iffn' you don't hear from me for a while, don't worry. Just the wife found out about it, that's all........Lee:)

Buckshot
06-14-2006, 03:06 AM
More thanks! And especially for the link. I'll look them up tonight. I'm gonna try real hard to get this one, based on what I've heard here. So iffn' you don't hear from me for a while, don't worry. Just the wife found out about it, that's all........Lee:)

...................Gee, I hope Lee's okay :-)

...............Buckshot

threett1
06-17-2006, 03:38 PM
Yup, them wives can be dangerous.:mrgreen:

Dale53
06-17-2006, 04:30 PM
I have carefully read the Dick Trenk treatise on pressure of the Pedersoli rifles. It tells me to not exceed their pressure limits for the 45/70 of 29,000 PSI. That is "right at" Marlin allowable pressures. Pressure tests exceeding these limits by 30% are NOT to be taken that YOU can exceed the pressure limits by this amount. This is clearly excessive and is only done at Proof time.

Under NO circumstances should any rolling block be subjected to Ruger #1 and #3 allowable pressures. I was present at one Italian Rolling Block blowup and I have NO desire to go through that again. I have also seen an original Remington Rolling block suffer catastrophic failure of the barrel AND receiver.

Just shoot the Pedersoli and others within their design limits and you will NOT have a problem. Exceed their design limits (this applies to ANY design) and sooner rather than later you WILL have problems. Just because some fool has gotten away with serious over loads does NOT mean it should be taken to be OK.

I liken it to letting a small child run accross the Interstate. He maybe make it even a couple of times but sooner rather than later HE AIN'T GONNA MAKE IT!

Let's keep ourselves safe, fellows and gals. A 45/70 even when loaded as designed is a heck of a powerful rifle - who needs to overload it?

Dale53

windwalker
06-17-2006, 11:02 PM
I have carefully read the Dick Trenk treatise on pressure of the Pedersoli rifles. It tells me to not exceed their pressure limits for the 45/70 of 29,000 PSI. That is "right at" Marlin allowable pressures. Pressure tests exceeding these limits by 30% are NOT to be taken that YOU can exceed the pressure limits by this amount. This is clearly excessive and is only done at Proof time.

Under NO circumstances should any rolling block be subjected to Ruger #1 and #3 allowable pressures. I was present at one Italian Rolling Block blowup and I have NO desire to go through that again. I have also seen an original Remington Rolling block suffer catastrophic failure of the barrel AND receiver.

Just shoot the Pedersoli and others within their design limits and you will NOT have a problem. Exceed their design limits (this applies to ANY design) and sooner rather than later you WILL have problems. Just because some fool has gotten away with serious over loads does NOT mean it should be taken to be OK.

I liken it to letting a small child run accross the Interstate. He maybe make it even a couple of times but sooner rather than later HE AIN'T GONNA MAKE IT!

Let's keep ourselves safe, fellows and gals. A 45/70 even when loaded as designed is a heck of a powerful rifle - who needs to overload it?

Dale53


amen to that dale53 there are to meny guys doing this here as well. one guy i now
has a pedersoli sharps and shoots the low to middle loads for ruger #1 i dont wont to be around when it lets go,if he brings it to the rainge i stop shooting and get well clear,and you cant tell him ither he gets hard extraction but he wont be told .
bernie:-D

Lee
06-17-2006, 11:56 PM
Got my meat-snaggers on the Pedersoli rolling block today. Clean looking, except for where the moron ground off the front sight:roll:
My intent is to load to around 1300 to 1500 fps maximum with ANY grain bullets, the larger ones of course going slower than the lighter ones. That philosophy has worked well for my (Pedersoli) Sharps so far. I see no evidence of flattened primers, no excessive kick, and extraction is never a problem. And my loadings are within the published powder charges I have available.
Based on those primitive observations, I suspect that I am well within the pressure limits allowable for the weapon. I agree with the concept that a 400 grain slug need'ent go 2200 fps to be effective. In fact a 400 grain slug at 1200 fps is not something I would want to tangle with.
So, it seems that my loadings would be compatible with a modern repro and not cause any undue concern.
For my own information, where can I find, what is the difference between Ruger #1 and Ruger #3 loading??? With respect to (any) other published load data??
Thanks..........................................Le e

Windwalker............sage advice!....................Lee:)

longhorn
06-18-2006, 09:22 PM
Just a little note-look over the hammer nose, back end of the firing pin, and the breechblock for signs of "peening." The firing pin must move freely in the breechblock. Mine is about 20 years old, and it definitely had some (relatively) soft parts. And slug the barrel-mine's tight enough to shoot .454 pistol bullets quite well.

Lee
06-18-2006, 10:56 PM
If it works heres a picture of the target. 300gr cast over 35gr BLC-2(MY LOAD, use at your own risk!!) at 55 yards quasi bench rest. Neat thing about this is that I shot first, then handed the rifle to my brother in law, who took the second shot. Hmmm, I think I'll try ta hang on to this one!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/Lee4570/June2006A/901721c6.jpg

Remember one shot is mine, one is the brother in law.

longhorn, I'll definately inspect the pin, block, etc further. Now, forgive me, but I've never slugged anything(except a kid in the 8th grade).
A brief description of how to do and how to measure would be greatly appreciated.

As a side note, these rounds chambered easily, extracted easily, no signs of overpressure. In my Pedersoli Sharps that same charge "smoked" the brass pretty badly. Interestingly enough, there is no evidence of "smoking" on the fired cases from this Rolling Block. Chamber must be a little tighter, eh??..................Lee

windwalker
06-21-2006, 08:03 AM
lee i find the easyest way for me to slug the bore is to get a 50 cal round ball you need 3 of them one to measure the bore one for the breech end and one to tap all the way through. tap one into the muzzel end about 6" and then with a long 3/8" dowel tap it out from the breech end mark each one with a felt pen, tap one in the breech end 6" then tap out from the muzzel end. then tap from the breech end with the third one all the way through and try to feel any tight spots in the part of the barrel that has not been sluged if you dont no how to measure the sluged balls see if you can find any one to do it for you i have found that pedersoli's tend to be tighter at the muzzel end have seen 5 like this.hope this helps
bernie:)

Dale53
06-21-2006, 10:22 AM
Lee;
>>>what is the difference between Ruger #1 and Ruger #3 loading??? <<<

Both the Ruger #1 and #3 have the same strength and both will handle the heaviest loads suggested for the 45/70.

The two best sources of information with the various 45/70 actions are the "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook" and Ken Water's "Pet Loads". both publications should be in most everybody's library. Ken's explanations of the various action strengths are illuminating. Both books have three levels of loads depending on the action strength of your rifle. Lyman's book lists pressures of the various loads so it will be easy to tie it to Dick Trenk's limits for the Pedersoli.

Dale53

Lee
06-25-2006, 10:24 PM
Now, about the cleaning aspect. This rifle (rolling block) has an interesting construction. With lots of nooks and crannies where crud can build up. I'm interested in any tips and triks for cleaning, both field expedient, as well as a (groan!) full takedown and wipe.
(Looks like a complete disassembly would be a chore. Or is that just because I haven't done it yet and don'y know any better??:roll: )
Thanks!...................................Lee:)

Dale53
06-26-2006, 12:28 AM
Any decent black powder solvent will clean the barrel with a couple of wet patches, then a couple of dry ones. After that a good preservative oil will keep it just fine. I use the last wet solvent patch to wipe down the outside. You shouldn't have to detail strip the action more than once a year.

I use "Friendship Speed Juice" as my black powder solvent (it actually dissolves black powder residue where water just "flushes" it) and after dry patches, use Ed's Red as my preservative. CLP works well as a preservative as does Birchwood Casey's Sheath.

Dale53

Steelshooter
06-26-2006, 08:52 PM
I also use speed juice and ed's red for cleaning, it is the best combo I found so far. The rolling block action is one of the easiest actions to take apart, very few parts and very easy to clean. A warning on the pedersoli screws, they are easily stripped, so be extra careful when tighting them down. Good luck. Chuck

Lee
07-01-2006, 01:42 AM
Thank you for all the replies. Good information, and it will be put to good use.
Now to take a slightly different tack;
I mentioned that someone ground down the front sight on the rifle. I would like to purchase a hooded front sight and replace the messed up one. Only thing is, there sems to be several specifications for the dovetail dimensions. Does anyone know what dimensions on the Pedersoli dovetail I should be looking for??
I am handy with hand tools, but dovetails can be tricky and I sure don't want to try to stuff a 3/8" dovetail into a 9mm dovetail groove. (That's quite a bit of filing, IMO)
Thanks............................................ ...........Lee

windwalker
07-01-2006, 09:03 PM
lee acording to pedersoli the dove tail will be 3/8.
bernie:-D