Water quenching boolits?

[Rich219]

Sorry for the newb questions but I'm planning on starting to cast boolits as soon as spring arrives. From what I read water quenching seems to be the way to go. Does the amount of water you quench them in affect anything?

[acoilfld]

This post has some information that might help you.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=73062

[Rich219]

Thanks, that link helped a lot.

Would using a 55gal barrel be overkill?

[acoilfld]

WAY overkill, hard to get the bullets out of.
I use one of those 2 gal square buckets that kitty liter comes in.

[warf73]

I use an old coffee can fill it up to the 2nd rib with cold water from the tap.
Works great for me. Just a side note keep the water far enough away from your molten alloy as possible(within reason). My can is about 3 fee lower than the top of my pot.

[Wayne S]

Just a side note keep the water far enough away from your molten alloy as possible(within reason). My can is about 3 fee lower than the top of my pot.
This is one thing you don't want to say "ask me how I know" !! I use a cardboard box thats about 4 ft long 8" wide and 3 to 4" tall, and make a trough out of it. I open one end up so I have a about a 6" open top with sides,secure it my bench and the other end rests on the top of a small ice chest.
I just drop the bullets out of the mold into the "opening" and they roll down and into the water.
I may loose a little tempeture but it keeps al water far enough away from the pot.

[chris in va]

It also depends on what caliber and speeds pushing the boolit. I was informed not to water drop my 45ACP boolits but haven't reloaded any yet. My CZ 75 likes water dropped more than air cooled when pushed at lower speeds.

[Kragshooter]

Years ago I was melting lead to pour cast iron plumbing, was about freezing and I was working on a large school project. Ice cycle fell off roof right into my pot as I was getting ready to pour. I can tell you all about water hitting lead. Still have the scars 50 years later on my hands and arms. Be careful!

[timkelley]

I use a three gallon bucket covered with a slit towel to minimize splashing. I put the bucket on a folding chair a couple feet to my right (right handed) and down. Works very well.

[JSnover]

Water quenching is the Way To Go if you want water quenched boolits. I started quenching because I was beating my boolits up by dropping them on top of each other. As my technique improved I didn't feel the need to quench and I don't need the boolits to be any harder than 12-14. Results will vary with different alloys.
When I did quench, I used a plastic beach bucket about half full. The bucket sat on the floor, far enough away so I wouldn't kick it over. The pot was up on the bench, about 3 feet off the floor. Never had a problem with water jumping into the melt.

[bishopgrandpa]

For MANY years I have used wheel weights with a tad of lino to keep a bhn of 14-15 and never put hot lead and water together. I run my 357 and 44 mag around 1250 fps and use it in my 450's and 45-70's with out any leading. Water quenching is the rage, but why? Harder you don't need and is an added step. Don't tell me it is needed to push rifle bullets at 2800fps and more because few if any are doing that. I know this will bring flak but that's what makes casting interesting.

[badgeredd]

Rich219,

Since you are just getting into casting, I'd suggest that you air cool about half of your castings to start with. The reason I say this is that you will find that hardening your boolits isn't necessarily what you'll want to do. Some cartridge/gun combinations work better with a/c than with w/d boolits. You'll find that some guns and loads work much better with a/c boolits. IF you want those boolits harder you can always oven heat treat to harden them even harder than water dropping. It is all about experimentation, fit, alloy, hardness, and powders so you'd be well served to leave some a/c for your load development.

FWIW, I have one rifle I have shot a/c WW at 2200 fps with no adverse results and it doesn't like harder boolits in the design I am using.

Just a suggestion and some food for thought.

Edd

Well lookie there, I am now a silver boolit Master with this post! COOL!!!!!!!!!

[KYCaster]

I still don't get it....guess I never will.

The only valid reason for water dropping that I've heard is that it allows you to harden alloys that would otherwise be too soft for the application. As far as I'm concerned, the same thing can be accomplished with the proper alloy and you don't have to worry about hardness changing in the future.

It certainly can't be considered EASIER since you're adding several extra steps to a fairly simple process to make it more complicated.

I consider it the same as any other specilized or exotic method used to accomplish a specific task in the casting/reloading process. I can think of VERY few applications that can't be accomplished more conviently, more easily or more accurately with other methods.

Now, if you just like to do it that way, just say so. That's something I can understand, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that it's somehow a BETTER method.

Just my opinion, and you know what that's worth. :coffee:

Jerry

[Char-Gar]

Rich... Just for the record, there are some of us who don't feel water quenching is the way to go as a matter of routine. I have been at this bullet casting game for over 50 years and this water stuff is a recent wrinkle. Well, recent in my way of thinking. Here is my 2 cents worth, which will draw fire from some. Of that I am certain!

1. In handgun shooting, there is no condition known to mankind, that requires a bullet as hard as you get from droping them in water. More often than not, softer will give much better results.

2. In rifle shooting, air cooled wheelweight is plenty hard for speeds up to 1.9K fps or perhaps a little more depending etc. etc. etc.

3. If you are going faster than what ACWW allows, then a harder alloy like No. 2 or Linotype is the way to go.

4. Tempering of wheelweight metal was developed as a means of taking a cheap metal and making it as hard or harder than linotype for upper end rifle loads.

5. Tempering is best done in an oven followed by an even quench of entire batch at once in water.

6. Droping the bullet direct from the mold will give an uneven quench as no two bullets will hit the water the same way.

7. There are fads in just about everything in life and bullet casting is no exception. Water droping is one such fad, that is expoused as a cure-all, which it isn't. Folks new to casting tend to swallow it, hook , line and sinker.

If folks want to plop their hot bullets into water, I don't really care. I just wanted you to know, that their are other voices that demur from the current fad.

[bishopgrandpa]

AMEN to good common sense.

[Recluse]

Some of us water-drop our boolits because we get tired of burning the ends of our fingers picking up the boolits to admire them. :)

Water-dropping is a tool, and like any tool, a good caster needs to know why he is using that tool and for what purpose and means.

Lot of folks will read things that long-time casters (or reloaders) do, and never even think about it or question it--they'll just do the same thing without any thought. And that really doesn't accomplish much at the end of the day.

:coffee:

[acoilfld]

I find it more convenient, plus it allows me to accomplish more in the little spare time that I have

[Slow Elk 45/70]

I didn't know it was a current "Fad", As Recluse says, know what you are doing it for and mind your safety issues with the water if you decide to water drop....we could argue this till next year...we all have reasons for why we do different things in this game...as stated it isn't "Necessary", but it is an easy way to get a lot of boolits hardened to about 19-21 BHN
if you want a hard boolit......if you are going to shoot them in the near future, if not then heat treat them in the oven, you are getting a good cross section of views

[chris in va]

I'm new to casting. Can someone explain why my CZ likes the harder water quenched boolits as evidenced by these groups? Upper right and lower left are water dropped.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9628/imgp48954667425.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/i/imgp48954667425.jpg/)

[sheepdog]

I'm new to casting. Can someone explain why my CZ likes the harder water quenched boolits as evidenced by these groups? Upper right and lower left are water dropped.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9628/imgp48954667425.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/i/imgp48954667425.jpg/)

If the harder ones leads less youre probably pushing them faster than the non-water cooled like.

[pdawg_shooter]

I still don't get it....guess I never will.

The only valid reason for water dropping that I've heard is that it allows you to harden alloys that would otherwise be too soft for the application. As far as I'm concerned, the same thing can be accomplished with the proper alloy and you don't have to worry about hardness changing in the future.

It certainly can't be considered EASIER since you're adding several extra steps to a fairly simple process to make it more complicated.

I consider it the same as any other specilized or exotic method used to accomplish a specific task in the casting/reloading process. I can think of VERY few applications that can't be accomplished more conviently, more easily or more accurately with other methods.

Now, if you just like to do it that way, just say so. That's something I can understand, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that it's somehow a BETTER method.

Just my opinion, and you know what that's worth. :coffee:

Jerry

+1 on what Jerry says. If I need a hard bullet I will adjust my alloy to get it. I paper patch ALL my rifle bullets so I match my hardness to the velocity to get performance on live meat.

[Char-Gar]

Chris... A couple of thoughs on your four targets

1. CZ makes many types of firearms. I ASSUME yours is a 9mm.

2. The four targets don't display a dramatic difference between the water quenched and the others. None of those targets are bragging targets unless they were shot at 100 yards or beyond.

3. What difference there is ,will probably be found in the rate of twist in the barrel. Most 9mm rifling twist are pretty quick.

[silverbuzzard]

BE CAREFUL ! one drop of water into a hot mold can ruin your day
That said, I have cast for 35 years and used a 5 gallon bucket with a large cotton rag in it and about 2/3 full water.
The rag slows the bullet and stops any deformation if they hit the side of bucket on way it

[Wayne S]

As I said earlier I make a trough and use that to carry the bullets into an icechest, I don't push my WW bullets over 1700 FPS [the new NOE 224-55 will be the exception] BUT I have a limited area for casting and use the trough to keep from droping hot bullets on top of other hot bullets

[gray wolf]

Originally Posted by chris in va
I'm new to casting. Can someone explain why my CZ likes the harder water quenched boolits as evidenced by these groups? Upper right and lower left are water dropped.

First lets clear this one up, this target shows me nothing, if it was shot at 7 to 10 yards all it says to me is you need a little more range time. Sorry for the comment but that's the way I see it.
Second this water drop thing? I don't shoot rifle so for my 45 acp water dropping
would do me as much good as having two heads. Just don't need it.
I think people get into habits and do things without knowing why they are doing it. especially some of the new to casting people. --He said,she said, we think possible, maybe, could be, and so on.
As far as a waste of time let me say
in my opinion it NOT a waste of time.
If you need to do it and you have looked at your situation and determined that
#1 you need a harder bullet.
#2 A harder bullet will improve your shooting.
# you are getting leading and have done all the other work and decided that your hardness is the reason.
#3 you need harder bullets and you can't afford another alloy or other metals are not available or not practical for you.
# 4 you are just to thick headed to take advice and insist on doing things your way, and could care less about what you are told, or to lazy to research the issue yourself.
these are just some of my observations on the matter.
To say it is foolish and a waste of time OR just go and get a different alloy is also foolish, and a little narrow minded .
There are people here that water drop there bullets and know exactly why they are doing it.
These are the people that have done there homework --they are the people I listen to. Not the people that do anything in life because --she said, he said bla, bla.
Let me get off this by saying if water dropping makes you feel good --do it--
if you want to try something different--do it-- if you think it will help --do it--
Please be careful if you do as been said water into lead is not good--lead into water is ok.
If you can't drop your bullets onto a cloth without denting them up or burn your fingers--take a look at your set up. dropping bullets on a soft surface and moving them around is casting 101.
Sorry for if I got of on a little rant but it's how I see it.
Happy day's to all and drinks all around.-------------------

[BABore]

Well said and much needed here abouts.:groner:

[Nrut]

To say it is foolish and a waste of time OR just go and get a different alloy is also foolish, and a little narrow minded .
There are people here that water drop there bullets and know exactly why they are doing it.
These are the people that have done there homework --they are the people I listen to. Not the people that do anything in life because --she said, he said bla, bla.

+1
Good post Grey Wolf.....

[DLCTEX]

It also needs to be said that a drop of water on top of the melt in the pot is not a certain visit from the tinsel fairy. It is something to be avoided, but don't get paranoid. The water has to be under the surface and a drop may even have to be trapped to cause an eruption. When I water drop it is done with a five gallon bucket almost full sitting on the floor and my bench is 36" high. For my 45 ACP water dropping seems to make little difference in accuracy or leading with my loads. For 38 Spc. the boolits need to be air cooled 50/50 (read softer) for good accuracy with my gun and loads. Water dropping is a way to get harder boolits from ww metal and is a useful tool that works in some guns/loads/situations. The experimenting and testing is a large portion of the pleasure derived from this wonderful pastime for me.

[insanelupus]

There is another reason for water quenching. Like other said, it's a tool. A tool I plan to try and use this year for the first time. In theory, it should work and I know others on here have done so with good results.

Water quenching WWs and then softening the nose (by standing them in water and using a torch until they just start to change color) is a quick and easy way (comparitively speaking) to end up with a softpoint type bullet for rifles and hunting purposes.

True, I could try different alloys, pouring different alloys in two pours, etc. However, there is no appreciable difference between the softened noses and the bullets which haven't been softened. So one can develop a hunitng load with the water quenched bullets which can allow a higher velocity and get the accuracy that he/she wants. In turn, once that load has been developed, for hunting you don't typically need lots of bullets, so they can be nose softened and loaded for hunting (after doing a final double check that the loads with the softned noses do indeed shoot where you want them).

For me an easier method (again, in theory as I haven't tried it yet) for an end result.

Even if I don't end up using this method in the end, there are times you may not use a tool much, but occasionally find it a vital part of a project.

[Char-Gar]

Now this reminds me of old times here on this board. Eight or ten years back we had the "filler war", where the folks lined up on whether or not to use filler and if so, what filler was best. Nothing was resolved and the war petered out after a couple of years and nobody was ever convinced of the error of their way.

We now seem to be in the water drop war, that crops up from time to fime. What makes it a war instead of a discussion are such terms as "foolish", "waste of time", etc. etc.

I am not a water droper, and see no need for it in my casting for either handgun or rifle. I get good results with no water. Yes, I have tried it and found it cured nothing and introduced problems into my casting world. IMHO it is a solution to a non-existant problem. I have no problems with the "dropers" but when a newbi says, that it seems to be the way to go, it is time to run up the big WHOA flag.

Anyway.. let the good times roll! This place feels like home again. Maybe we can rekindle the filler wars again! There are lots of new folks here who have not learned such things produce lots of heat, but no light.

[gray wolf]

I don't think it's a-kin to a war, at all.
In the end --them that will learn will learn-- and them that won't--well they just won't.
I agree that certain words are a little hard to take--like never--and always--
Just don't listen to them. Many times new casters or re loaders get started and think everything they do or come across is the best since 5 cent candy. If they grow with the sport
they soon find out that what was the best yesterday may not be so good tomorrow.
Hopefully we grow and learn. If some people wish to stay with there feet stuck in mud
so be it. We have no right to force anyone--only to try and guide folks and keep them safe.
I hate pissing wars and I don't have a dog in this fight. So I guess I have said enough.

[Gelandangan]

:coffee:

I am sitting on the fence and waiting to see if some argument can sway me either way.

[canyon-ghost]

The #1 fact here is that water quenching is a tool. I agree with Sheepdog on Chris in VA's CZ, there's possibly more powder behind the bullet than the WW holds together for. At the other end of the spectrum, you could use soft lead and keep it below 900 fps or so.

I use water quenching for the 7mmTCU (in the avatar) because, it's launched to 200 yards with a lead bullet. Chris in VA, it shoots like your targets out there at 200 yards. From that, you can guess I'm pushing it at greater than 1900fps. At the same time, my 22 Hornet pistol (same length barrel) only shoots to 100 meters. I use air cooled lead in it. It shoots very flat to 100 meters at somewhere around 1800 fps.

Water quenching makes wheelweight lead come from 7-9 bhn to way over 15bhn, it is dramatically harder. It's also easier to use than linotype, I have that too. I prefer to set the 5gal. bucket two steps behind me from the casting pot. The lead has to cool that long anyway and I see no reason to get cold water and hot lead near each other. Water quenching in more a hardening tool for high-velocity lead rifle bullets than pistol uses. If it weren't for the one wildcat in my pistol barrels, and now a 41 Mag, I could use air-cooled wheelweight for about anything. The 41 Magnum is new, remains to be tested with air-cooled so, I'll just let that one go for now. I shoot 32-20, 9mm, 32 mag, and 22 hornet all with air-cooled but, there is more to follow yet.

[BD]

OK, here's my argument: For the vast bulk of my reloading I make alloy about once every other year or so. I make WW + 2% tin in 200 pound lots, typically 600 pounds or so at a time. Takes all afternoon. This alloy "air cooled" handles just about 90% of what I shoot by weight; light .44, 45 acp and .38 spec. Most of the other 10% I can handle with water quenched WW; hot .44 mag, slow 6.5 x 55 and .450 Bushmaster, (so far). Anything else, less than 1% of what I shoot, I will make alloy for.
This does not include time consuming experiment stuff, like soft noses or HP's.

For the last 15 years I've water dropped the 10% needed by spinning in my junk yard office chair and opening the mold into a five gallon bucket with a small sponge floating submerged near the top. I hit it every time, the boolits then fall to the bottom. At the end of the casting I roll up my sleeves and pull them out, 100 or 200 or 300, whatever. This saves me a whole weekend of making up a slightly harder alloy. I load to shoot. What do you load for?

That's what water dropping is about.

BD

[BD]

"The only valid reason for water dropping that I've heard is that it allows you to harden alloys that would otherwise be too soft for the application"

That pretty much says it all.

BD

[BLTsandwedge]

There are none so wise or so vigilant as to be immune from tinsel fairy's visit.

I'm a water dropper. It raises 19/1 WW/Sn from 10-12BhN to 17-18BhN. It makes for slightly better groups from MY 610, Python and 629. As I run two moulds at a time (from Lyman 4-packs to H&G six-holers) everything gets dropped. It helps with .40 and 10MM and doesn't hurt .32s through .45s. A nice feature water dropping offers- I can grab a newly minted projectile and examine it closely right away- as in using reading glasses- without wearing gloves. Obviously you can do the same with a hot boolit without skin contact, but I prefer the former. Sooooo....do what is best for you. Experiment to find out what works for your given set of circumstances. That's what this is all about, no?

[shootinxd]

I am going to try 100 of each in my 40cal.I'd like that super sized please.Just kidding.

[RSOJim]

What Nrut said, #27 post. I could have not said it better myself.

[ebg3]

I don't see a reason for a war or debate. Just try it both ways and see what works best for you.
EG

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive fooled with it some through the years and used to preach it was a waste of time for the most part. Lately though ive had a hard time finding cheap linotype and my supply is down to about 500 lbs and i know that down the line im going to need to water drop to get the hardness i need. Even when i preached against it i did admit that it can effect accuracy. It can effect it in a good way or bad. What it really is to someone who is very anal in finding the absoulute best accuracy in a particular gun is another thing to try. It will effect accuracy as much as trying anothter powder or primer. Its far from stupid and its far from dangerous unless your an idiot. As to what i use it use a 5 gallon pail. I do most of my casting in the winter and boys we have SNOW up to the gazoos up here so i take my bucket and scoop a layer of snow on top. It cusions the bullets, prevents splash and id guess the add coldness of the water adds to the hardness a bit.

[randyrat]

I'm new to casting. Can someone explain why my CZ likes the harder water quenched boolits as evidenced by these groups? Upper right and lower left are water dropped.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9628/imgp48954667425.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/i/imgp48954667425.jpg/) This should be another another post, but i think your squeezing your fingers too much or doing it just as you fire. CZs are large grip pistols watch your trigger finger posistion also.. Some are very picky on load/powder, at least thats what i found with them. My Witness like Hotter cast loads

Back on subject,,,, Some just don't have Linotype and are stuck water dropping. Or just don't want to spend the extra $ on harder alloys. Some just don't realize they don't need a harder alloy.
I have one pistol that uses a little harder alloy (WDWW) the others are ok with ACWW or softer. I fill a pot up cast water drop the other half i ACWW. No mixing alloys no fus. So i think there is a place for Water dropping some times.

[AviatorTroy]

Interesting guys, keep it up! I've been casting for about 15 years and personally I have NEVER water dropped, for several reasons.

1. I was taught from day one that its never a good idea to have water and the lead pot in the same room, especially when your a klutz like I am, something is bound to happen.

2. Seems to me that dropping from the mold would be very inconsistant so if I were to try heat treating, Id be inclined to do the whole batch in an oven at the same time for consistancy.

Well, this is a great debate and since I shoot 90% rifles, I am thinking about trying this if I feel a need to push velocities up a little more or something different like that.

Thanks for all the great ideas here....

[leadman]

I water drop most of my boolits. I do AC for my j-frame 38spl. and 200gr boolits in my 300 Whisper.

I do not use WW alloy any longer as I save it for my shotmaker. I use the almost pure lead from the stick-on WWs and add lino until a boolit cast from my large melting pot tests at 8 BHN. When water dropped these harden to 11 to 12 BHN in a few days that works good for most handguns and very reduced rifle rounds.

I do make a separate alloy for higher velocity rifle loads that tests at 11 to 12 BHN out of the melting pot. These test about 18 BHN water dropped.

As far as water on a mold goes, a drop will sizzle away pretty fast, never had a problem.

Last night I was melting wheel weights to make ingots for my shotmaker. I was outside and it started to rain. The rain just sizzled away on the top of the lead in the pot.
Even the cast iron muffin tins had water spots on them so I put a very small amount of lead in the holes and let it heat up a bit, then poured. Had no problems with the lead. I was verrrryyy careful not to trap any water under the lead.

[mroliver77]

I find it amazing how emotional some people become over things like this. I dont really care one way or another how others do it. It is my understanding that one of the purposes of this site is to pass along knowledge of cast boolit shooting and all that goes with it. Emotional outbursts and name calling does not further our passion one bit. Statements like "Water dropping is useless and stupid." or "Water dropping is the ONLY way to go." are both false and help nobody. I WD sometimes and air cool for other conditions or alloys. I have even been known to heat boolits in an oven and then quench. I am very tight with a nickle. I need to be very frugal if I want to shoot much. I have a large pile of range scrap that tests around 7-8 on my Lee scale. Water dropping brings it to 12-13 and oven treating a few points more. I only have 1 barrel of WW and finding more is getting as hard as finding hens teeth. I have a decent stash of "pure" and can find more of this. I see no reason to waste expensive antimony when I can double or triple my tally by WD and no further cash outlay.
Jay

[Gunslinger1911]

My $0.01 (haven't been here long enough to be worth $0.02) :-)

I'm with mroliver77, No wheel weights around here, can't afford Rotometal hardball (around $2 a pound) any more - my son and I shoot a LOT of 45acp ! -

I get range scrap for $0.25 a pound, air hardened is just over pure lead hardness, water dropped is just undre hardball alloy. Makes sense to me, for my situation.

[leadman]

mroliver77, I agree with your position on this. I think as Wheel Weight lead becomes harder to find and other alloys more expensive more people may consider using this method to harden "cheaper" alloys.

At least this discussion may have others thinking about ways to save money and keep on shooting. Nothing says they have to water drop. If they have the funds or access to low cost high quality alloys that is fine too.

[Recluse]

I reiterate, as I stated at the first of this discussion, that water-dropping is a tool. I like having a lot of tools at my disposal, because if the only tool I have is a hammer, then every problem gets treated like a nail.

At the end of the day, the only thing that truly matters is how well your boolits shoot and how well they group.

Lots of ways to get to the same destination, so who is to say which road is the best for someone else?

:coffee:

[warf73]

I really didn't think people would get this twisted over this subject. Some pretty harsh words from some posters here.

As for water dropping if that’s what a person wants/needs to get the job done so be it.

I personally water drop ALL pistol boolits.
Why may you ask?
Because when I/we (it’s a family event) cast for pistol may it be 357, 40, 44 or 45lc we cast min 500~1k + at once.
Here is what we do on a Sunday when there is a casting/lubing/sizing/reloading day ahead of us.
First off I must start the smoker at 5am to get the pork shoulder on :)

1. Once my water bucket (coffee can) gets so full I take it into the house and the wife dumps it out and dries off the boolits.
2. She then starts lubing the boolits and when she catches up or I take the next batch to her, the lubed/sized boolits go to our son and he starts loading.

At the end of the day we have made our fun for the fallowing weekend and we eat pulled pork that evening.

It’s a family event were everyone has fun in the end at the range shooting.

But on the other hand I air cools ALL my rifle boolits as I make my rifle alloy just for that rifle boolits.

As stated above by another caster water dropping is a TOOL and our family uses that tool to maximize our time.

Sorry for getting off topic some but there is no right/wrong in this subject. Just be careful if you use this tool as we all know water and molten alloy aren’t friends.


Warf

[Bret4207]

Sorry for the newb questions but I'm planning on starting to cast boolits as soon as spring arrives. From what I read water quenching seems to be the way to go. Does the amount of water you quench them in affect anything?

As some others have pointed out, WQing is fine where it's needed, but there's no sense limiting yourself by ONLY WQing. Use it where you need it, you won't always.

[badgeredd]

I hope that Rich219 and Chris in Va have been able to glean answers to their questions from all of our posts. Nrut as well as others has stated the most important thing about water dropping...it is a tool to achieve ones goal. It isn't a requirement for everyone all of the time. As to whether there are better ways to get the hardness one wants/needs, well I'm not sure there are "better" ways but there are other ways. Economy is one of the reasons I harden with water dropping, actually the main reason. If I could afford lino to experiment with to increase hardness, I'd probably use more. Another reason I water quench is it seems to me that I get a more ductile boolit for hunting. My casting is every bit as much about performance on game as anything else so I choose to play with alloys I can afford and manipulate.

This has surely been an interesting thread for me.

Edd

[Nrut]

I should clear things up here..

I was quoting from Grey Wolf's post #25 in my post #27 as I agreed with everything he said to a "T"..
I personally cast both air cooled and water dropped depending on what I want to accomplish... I also sometimes anneal my boolits and if I had a oven that got hot enough I would probably try my hand at "oven heat treating".
What others do is up to them...:drinks:

[cptinjeff]

I find it amazing how emotional some people become over things like this. I dont really care one way or another how others do it. It is my understanding that one of the purposes of this site is to pass along knowledge of cast boolit shooting and all that goes with it. Emotional outbursts and name calling does not further our passion one bit. Statements like "Water dropping is useless and stupid." or "Water dropping is the ONLY way to go." are both false and help nobody. I WD sometimes and air cool for other conditions or alloys. I have even been known to heat boolits in an oven and then quench. I am very tight with a nickle. I need to be very frugal if I want to shoot much. I have a large pile of range scrap that tests around 7-8 on my Lee scale. Water dropping brings it to 12-13 and oven treating a few points more. I only have 1 barrel of WW and finding more is getting as hard as finding hens teeth. I have a decent stash of "pure" and can find more of this. I see no reason to waste expensive antimony when I can double or triple my tally by WD and no further cash outlay.
Jay

I'm in this same boat so to speak. I have some WW and a "relative lot" of pure"ish" lead from removed boat ballast. I have not had to buy lead yet (only been cating a couple of years....but I cast a lot) and still have enough supply for a year or two. Hope to find some more "free" by then but it seems to be getting much harder to get all of a sudden. I "streach" my WW by adding pure and then heat treating/quenching back up to a good shooting BHN.

In short....it is a good tool for those in similar circumstances to raise bhn without buying more expensive alloy.