How much amunition exists.

[lwknight]

I wonder if anyone has ever ran across any type of statistic or anything estimating how much ammo exists in the civilian American hands?

Of all gun owners, if just 10 million of them had an average of 1000 rounds, there would be 10 billion rounds.

There are 50,000 plus members in pro gun forums that I know about and with only that few, I would guess that the average would be 50 million rounds that I could bet on without knowing anything else. And I'm sure that is just a grain of sand on the beach to the real count.

Is it beyond insanity to think that there could be 1 trillion rounds in the united states?

[johnlaw484]

I read somewhere there was 34.2 rounds for every man, woman and child in the US. That tells me some of us have more than their share.

:mrgreen:

[johnlaw484]

308,476,838 is the population of the US. That equates to 10,549,907,859 rounds in the hands of the citizens of this country.

[lwknight]

Well... I guess I have more than my fair share and I still don't feel its too much.
Someone is going without.

[Houndog]

No matter what the number is it's still not enough!

[Taylor]

I would like to think that I have my share.

[turbo1889]

I would be willing to bet that most of the ammunition in the hands of U.S. civilians is in the form of 22-lr cartridge if we are counting by the round and not by the pound or something.

I remember seeing the posting of the average yearly production of 22-lr for the U.S. once - it was a huge number. If someone can re-locate that info and confirm it then that would probably be the best starting point one is going to get.

[Blazin]

I remember seeing the posting of the average yearly production of 22-lr for the U.S. once - it was a huge number. If someone can re-locate that info and confirm it then that would probably be the best starting point one is going to get.

"Annual production is estimated at 2–2.5 billion rounds." Not sure if that's worldwide, or US only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

[JIMinPHX]

Ever since Obama got elected, I've seen a bunch of people at gun shows carrying away the ammo they just bought with a hand truck. I've seen lots of people get several hundred pounds at a time. A single ammo supplier was bringing a tractor trailer & a straight truck to the shows & pretty much selling out what he brought. That's a lot of ammo. I think that there is quite a bit of it spread around...at least in Arizona.

[lwknight]

The thing that got me to wondering about this was that a LEOs supervisor got a bright idea that they could get a group buy through the Dept. When he checked with CCI about buying factory direct, he was told that the minimum order was 1 million primers. Surely a minimun order would not be more than 1 days production. And that is jst 1 manufacturer.
Reloaders are a minority in the shooting world anyway. And we still can't get primers.

[BruceB]

I visited our local pusher....oops, "gunstore"....yesterday, and estimate they have over 100,000 primers on the shelves. What might be in the back room, I have no idea. These were all Remington or Winchester, all sizes, with just a few CCIs in evidence. Prices are around the $30/K range.

Powder stocks are getting better, too.

The number of rounds existing per person is surely going up as supplies increase, and particularly as people stock up in response to the latest shortage. This will continue for some time to come. We here are certainly well above average for rounds in possession, especially if we count primers as "rounds"...which I do.

[Got-R-Did]

When .22 LR was available from the DCM (now the CMP) I was buying .50 cal ammo cans that contained 5,100 rounds of the Olin "White Box" standard velocity target ammo for $70 delivered. Up until my Daughter started shooting at age 5, I had eleven cans stacked up in the corner. We are down to five cans, but she is otherwise involved with Orchestra (Cello), 4-H, Church Youth Group, Math/Science club, and other activities so shooting takes a back seat these days. Still have about 20 cans of assorted M2 Ball for the Garands I build and shoot. Likewise I handload for 43 different cartridges so the potential for completed ammo from the components in the "Little Shop of Horrors" is incalculable at this time. Do I have enough, not by a long shot (pun unavoidable)!
Got-R-Did

[AZ-Stew]

Just what does anyone consider "my fair share"? As far as I'm concerned, it's as much as I can safely store. I have more than one firearm and what I think I need to keep them fed isn't a matter of someone else's idea of "fair share".

I think I saw a show on Outdoor Channel where they visited the CCI plant and showed how the company produces .22 ammo and primers. I believe they said they ship a pallet of 4 million .22 RF each day. I'd guess that Federal, Remington and Winchester each crank out that much, if not double or more.

I ran across a deal several years ago when one of the local K-Marts got out of the gun business and they were selling bricks of Winchester Wildcat plinking ammo for $8/brick. I bought a bunch of them and still have quite a few. I also have more than I thought I did of Federal and Remington bulk pack .22s (525 rounds/pack). But I don't consider it hoarding. I bought them a couple of years before the current shortage.

Whatever the number is, we're doing exactly what the Founders envisioned. We have such a widely distributed stash of arms and ammo that it would be impossible for the government to confiscate it all.

Regards,

Stew

[mike in co]

i don't know, but i did load 1700 plus rounds of 223/69 gr yesterday...put a pretty big dent in an 8 lb'r of data 73.......

[remla75]

don't want to count them just have enough to play when I want to love to do skeet try to keep 1000 clays handy just one question how many does war take to win

[BPCR Bill]

don't want to count them just have enough to play when I want to love to do skeet try to keep 1000 clays handy just one question how many does war take to win

I suppose it's not a question of how much you have on hand, but how judiciously(or effectively) you use what you have.[smilie=s:

Regards,
Bill

[evan price]

1000 rounds per?? Where's that ROFL smiley...http://smiliesftw.com/x/smiley-rofl.gif


I've been hoarding since the 2004 elections. I keep it on pallets. I own a forklift. I will say no more.

[oldhickory]

I've been hording for years and don't feel as though I have enough!...Nuff said.

[markinalpine]

Who wants to know? [smilie=1:

Mark :Fire:

[threett1]

Just what does anyone consider "my fair share"? As far as I'm concerned, it's as much as I can safely store. I have more than one firearm and what I think I need to keep them fed isn't a matter of someone else's idea of "fair share".
You got that nailed Stew. My feelings exactly.

[JIMinPHX]

My fair share?
I'll start by talking about my minimum. I believe in keeping at least one box of ammo for each gun that I own as a minimum. If I get down to that much, I don't shoot the gun anymore, unless its a self defense situation where I have no choice.

For me, my fair share would be a 6-month to a year supply, based on my average shooting habits. I can understand where others may want to keep more on hand, especially these days. Both the supply chain & the political climate are much more risky than they used to be.

[Tazman1602]

So that would be counting .22 rimfires or not counting .22 rimfires????

<GRIN>

[chesterwin]

Judging by what I can't find at the store and todays prices, there is not currently enough!

[Ole]

I think if my house caught on fire, and the local FD showed up, i'd just tell them it's best to not go in there and to let it burn.

[Duckiller]

Fair share is a problem when you go shooting. #2 son and I went to local indoor range last Friday. He to check out his new to him Baretta , me just to see if I could see sights and target. He found that he shot to the left and I shot low to all over the place. Keep telling myself that light is bad at indoor range. Any way we shot up my supply of 9mm ammo. Pistols with 8-10 round magazines do use up ammo fast. I should be glad I live in a State that limits magazine capacity. Some day I will move to a state that believes in the Constitution, then I will have to increase my" fair share" . Also need larger storage room to have a larger "fair share". At Annual fall shoot-a-ton family and friends have about 3000-4000 rounds of center fire ammo that we match with 22LR.

[Murphy]

I hate it that I missed out on the 'Big Ammo Grab' of 2009. I'm in dang bad shape around my place.

Lemmie see...

.22 LR............37 rounds
.38 Spec.........8 rounds
.357 Mag........12 rounds
.44 Mag..........18 rounds
.45 ACP..........15 rounds
30/30..............9 rounds

I'm am in such a bind....'Uh huh'.

Murphy

[tommygirlMT]

When did this discussion go from "Estimate how much total ammo in hands of U.S. civilian population" to trying to define what is or is not a person's "Fair Share" ?

The phrase, "Fair Share", represents at its very core socialistic and communistic thought patterns in those who choose to believe that it exists.

If I work as hard as I can 60+ hours a week at a high paying job am I earning more then my "Fair Share" of a pay check compared to the lazy bum who skimps by on a part time job because she/he only wants to work as hard as he absolutely has too?

If I choose to spend a large portion of my money I don't use for bills and such on ammunition and stock pile it am I obtaining more then my "Fair Share"? How about the other gal/guy that instead of buying ammo is buying non-perishable food and stock piling that instead? Should some-one (no I don't mean just the gov. - I mean anyone who even suggests it) force me to give some of my ammo to the gal with all the canned goods in trade so it evens things out?

The term "Fair Share" is BS. Anyone who even thinks about it as a potential reality in any sense of it's use not just ammo needs to seriously re-consider their basic though patterns.

Ultimatly you make your own choices as far as which basket your going to put your eggs in and how many eggs you have and how many baskets you have. GET REAL, DEAL WITH IT, QUIT LIVING IN LALA LAND WHERE EVERYTHING IS OH SO FAIR AND RIGHT, WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD. Yes, there are a few things beyond the control of a single individual but anyone in this country at least is for the most part without excuse. You made your bed --- you sleep in it.

[AZ-Stew]

I read somewhere there was 34.2 rounds for every man, woman and child in the US. That tells me some of us have more than their share.

This is where it started. Post #2 to this thread. I took exception to the statement and that's where the conversation changed.

(Edit) Looking back over the thread, the conversation really started to lean at post #2, not when I posted. I just made it turn harder.

Regards,

Stew

[Lloyd Smale]

hell and ive got 42!!!! we are talking thousands arent we!

[SWIAFB]

Lloyd, I like how you think. I've got a box for every one of my firearms. I'm just not saying how big each box is. SWIAFB

[KYCaster]

The term "Fair Share" is BS. Anyone who even thinks about it as a potential reality in any sense of it's use not just ammo needs to seriously re-consider their basic though patterns.

Ultimatly you make your own choices as far as which basket your going to put your eggs in and how many eggs you have and how many baskets you have. GET REAL, DEAL WITH IT, QUIT LIVING IN LALA LAND WHERE EVERYTHING IS OH SO FAIR AND RIGHT, WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD. Yes, there are a few things beyond the control of a single individual but anyone in this country at least is for the most part without excuse. You made your bed --- you sleep in it.



:drinks: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:

Nobody's bidniss how much ammo I or any individual has.

As far as how much is in the hands of US citizens???....I hope it's enough.

[wistlepig1]

Guns without bullits are just shinny clubs! I have my 40 rd share+.:kidding:

[Johnch]

I read somewhere there was 34.2 rounds for every man, woman and child in the US. That tells me some of us have more than their share.

:mrgreen:

If so
:bigsmyl2: I have a small town's worth in the reloading room :bigsmyl2:
Just in factory

Reloaded cast & Jacketed is a bigger town's worth

And you can add the 10 or 12 6 gallon buckets of reloaded shotgun shells to the count

Hate to think how many rounds I shoot every year

John

[autofix4u]

Well the kids & I (with nephews its 8) shoot at least 1k a weekend, counting rimfire. and I like to keep several months worth on hand. I haul a 5 gallon bucket of rimfire brass to the scrappile every couple of months & mine most of my casting lead from my own berm. So if even 20 percent of shooters are like me I would say well over 1 trillion rds in private hands. The real question is (when it is needed) will it be enough?

[RNyogi]

I think if my house caught on fire, and the local FD showed up, i'd just tell them it's best to not go in there and to let it burn.
+1 and I'd be telling them while I was running the other way!:eek:

[waksupi]

Your fair share, is whatever you can afford to buy, scrounge, or find. If you are no good at those three virtues, you already have YOUR share!

[stubshaft]

I have enough so that if push comes to shove. Ill be able to keep my share.

[JIMinPHX]

The term "Fair Share" is BS. Anyone who even thinks about it as a potential reality in any sense of it's use not just ammo needs to seriously re-consider their basic though patterns.


If someone else tells you what your fair share is, then I agree with you. Everyone here seems to be setting their own fair share amount. I see noting wrong with that. We are all choosing how much to buy/stock. I've decided what my fair share is. I'm not telling you what yours should be.:coffeecom

[7of7]

I don't think I have reached my fair share yet, however, my wife does..... I just need to spend some more time at the range with my weatherby to really get a good load worked up so I can reload all the brass I have laying around, and then I can start looking for more primers and powder.... Bullets,... Not a problem, I make my own jacketed....
As long as I can get the materials, I am good...

[AZ-Stew]

Everyone here seems to be setting their own fair share amount. I see noting wrong with that. We are all choosing how much to buy/stock. I've decided what my fair share is. I'm not telling you what yours should be.:coffeecom

What a concept! A FREE COUNTRY!!! (Now, about that place on the Patomac...)

Regards,

Stew

[bohokii]

I hate it that I missed out on the 'Big Ammo Grab' of 2009. I'm in dang bad shape around my place.

Lemmie see...

.22 LR............37 rounds
.38 Spec.........8 rounds
.357 Mag........12 rounds
.44 Mag..........18 rounds
.45 ACP..........15 rounds
30/30..............9 rounds

I'm am in such a bind....'Uh huh'.

Murphy

wow if i were at those levels i would have a panic attack and probably stroke out

if i dont have at least 1k of any particular round i get really worried

[looseprojectile]

the bean counters are probably liberal democrats. [some that can count]. Therefore the count is flawed. One can only hope TPTB are confused and misinformed and stay that way.
Regarding the amount of ammunition I have on hand, "I have nothing to say".


Life is good

[Daryl]

From:

The 2006-2011 World Outlook for
Centerfire Rifle Cartridges
by
Professor Philip M. Parker, Ph.D.
Eli Lilly Chaired Professor of Business, Innovation and Society
INSEAD (Singapore and Fontainebleau, France)
COPYRIGHT NOTICE
ISBN 0497078570
All of ICON Group International, Inc. publications are copyrighted. Copying our publications in whole or in part,
for whatever reason, is a violation of copyright laws and can lead to penalties and fines.

These are the sales estimated worldwide for JUST Centerfire Rifle (in millions of $$):

2001 644.06
2002 652.20
2003 660.67
2004 669.62
2005 682.17
2006 713.92
2007 750.46
2008 788.96
2009 829.52
2010 872.27
2011 917.33

There are similar reports for centerfire handgun cartridges and rimfire cartridges and they are somewhat similar numbers. So, my best estimate from these is a worldwide market of about $1.5 billion per year. As far as I can tell, this is commercial production and sales since the US has its own facility.

About 20% to 25% of that is US.

Other interesting info From June 24, 2004 Press Release from Committee on Armed Services Subcommittee on Tactical Air and Land forces:

The DOD budget for small arms ammo (556, 762, & 50cal) was $79 million for 2005. AFter 9/11 the DOD training requirement was 1.1 billion rounds. In 2005 $22 million expansion was authorized for the Lake City facility. In the year around the report, 72 million rounds (6% of production) were used in Iraq. The Lake City facility was to be able to produce 2 billion rounds per year. Here is a link to this particular press release (interesting reading): http://armedservices.house.gov/comdocs/openingstatementsandpressreleases/108thcongress/Weldon24June04.pdf

[Bert2368]

50% increase world wide in a decade- I'd like to know how the other decades back to WWII compare.

There is ammo, and there is "more ammo". There is no such thing as "enough ammo"!

[lwknight]

Man, I don't know what to make of that info. 10 million rounds per month being expended at hostiles. I think that adds up to 20 to 50 thousand rounds per kill.
Definitely not very efficient.

I saw some videos from Iraq where the soldiers were shooting 1000s of rounds into the desert because there was someone out there shooting at them. They were just shooting everywhere and the enemy was not in sight at all.

I can't understand as to why not hold the fire till there was something to shoot at. What good is continuous suppression if the enemy is just hunkered down waiting till they run out of ammo?

[SciFiJim]

I can't understand as to why not hold the fire till there was something to shoot at. What good is continuous suppression if the enemy is just hunkered down waiting till they run out of ammo?

When someone is shooting at you and the government is paying for the ammo to shoot back it's "melt the barrel" time.

I remember reading once that in WWII the round count per casualty was around 70K. The 20K to 50K rounds per kill is an improvement. Seems pretty inefficient, but war is that way.

[AriM]

does it have to be loaded ammunition? or do ready to build components counts? my guess is that between loaded commercial ammo, handloads and components stockpiled (ready to build into loaded rounds) it's in the tens of billions, maybe more....

also keep in mind that it's a rotating number, as tens of millions of rounds are fired each day....

:cbpour:

[AriM]

From:

The 2006-2011 World Outlook for
Centerfire Rifle Cartridges
by
Professor Philip M. Parker, Ph.D.
Eli Lilly Chaired Professor of Business, Innovation and Society
INSEAD (Singapore and Fontainebleau, France)
COPYRIGHT NOTICE
ISBN 0497078570
All of ICON Group International, Inc. publications are copyrighted. Copying our publications in whole or in part,
for whatever reason, is a violation of copyright laws and can lead to penalties and fines.

These are the sales estimated worldwide for JUST Centerfire Rifle (in millions of $$):

2001 644.06
2002 652.20
2003 660.67
2004 669.62
2005 682.17
2006 713.92
2007 750.46
2008 788.96
2009 829.52
2010 872.27
2011 917.33

There are similar reports for centerfire handgun cartridges and rimfire cartridges and they are somewhat similar numbers. So, my best estimate from these is a worldwide market of about $1.5 billion per year. As far as I can tell, this is commercial production and sales since the US has its own facility.

About 20% to 25% of that is US.

Other interesting info From June 24, 2004 Press Release from Committee on Armed Services Subcommittee on Tactical Air and Land forces:

The DOD budget for small arms ammo (556, 762, & 50cal) was $79 million for 2005. AFter 9/11 the DOD training requirement was 1.1 billion rounds. In 2005 $22 million expansion was authorized for the Lake City facility. In the year around the report, 72 million rounds (6% of production) were used in Iraq. The Lake City facility was to be able to produce 2 billion rounds per year. Here is a link to this particular press release (interesting reading): http://armedservices.house.gov/comdocs/openingstatementsandpressreleases/108thcongress/Weldon24June04.pdf



holy ****....and this doesn't include what we make on our own? HOLY ****!!

my guess is that the average reloader/caster owns and shoots exponentially more than the average commercial shooter....granted we are a small minority, but the round count that reloaders/casters shoot has got to be at least 50 times what your average gun owner shoots....

my uncle only shoots his guns every couple years....and he even has a few thousand rounds on hand....various cal's

[SciFiJim]

I just did a search, looks like previous estimates are bad for rounds per kill in the Iraq war. According to a 2005 report I found, about 250k rounds are expended per kill. Wow, I bet the country of Iraq weighs more now than when the war started. Imagine all of the lead that went into the cores of those bullets.

As a WAG, with all of the new gun buyers buying a box or two "just in case", plus the normal stock pilers (not hoarders IMHO), plus the reloaders, plus the caster/reloaders (us here at CastBoolits), I will guess at least 100 billion rounds of center fire ammo. Probably less than one trillion rounds, but who knows. [smilie=1:

What I do know is that I plan on adding to the number every chance I get, and what "THEY" don't know is none of their business.

[AriM]

What I do know is that I plan on adding to the number every chance I get, and what "THEY" don't know is none of their business.



what ammo?? [smilie=1:

[SciFiJim]

"What ammo? You mean that stuff we used up at the last family reunion/BBQ/shooting session?"

[Bad Water Bill]

This part of the memo should cause some concern

In addition, this year we authorized an additional $22 million for increased
facilitization of small caliber ammunition production at the Lake City facility, ( the single government
facility for small caliber ammunition production )

What would happen if a shoe bomber got in there?
Knock Knock A soldier needs the stash that you talked about on the algore net

[AKsoldier]

Well I suppose I'll weigh in here - loaded ammo I have very little of. (In my opinion) I've got around 400 rds. 22 LR, 100 rds. 22 mag, 150 rds. 45 ACP, 30 rds. .300 Win. Mag., 20 rds. 450 Marlin, 10 or so for the .243...that's about it.

I will say this though. If right now I were forced to go live in the middle of nowhere, I'm confident that I have enough loading components for my hunting guns to keep food on the table for the rest of my life.:Fire:

[wallenba]

If we include "POTENTIAL" ammo, by that I mean what can be loaded from components on hand, the figure would be truly staggerring.

[jlchucker]

This is quite a thread!! "Fair Share"??? When somebody starts a thread with a question like this thread did--and others, like how many guns do you have, how many primers you keep, or how much powder you use, or the like, you have to wonder--who's really asking, and why? Curiosity is one thing--but these days my gut feeling, particularly considering some of the behavior of the present administration and congress--I have to wonder why anyone needs to know such details. I don't know as such information is really anybody's business. Let's just say that for myself, I've got enough ammo on hand to satisfy my needs. Who's going to determine whether it's my "fair share" or not? That would be me, myself--not Nancy Pelosi or one of her drones/clones.

[old turtle]

A man can not own to many 30-06 Springfields, 45 autos, or enough ammo.

[BD]

If you can estimate the total number of loaded cartridges you own accurately, (rounded to the nearest 100), you don't have enough.
BD

[shootinxd]

I am casting my own-that should tell ya something!Can you ever have enough?

[shdwlkr]

Just to get you thinking some more, one place that I buy primers from when I am in the area where they are localed told me they buy primers by the semi truck load when they place an order and have a straight rack truck deliver them as needed. think about that the truck is say maybe 24-30 foot long, 8'-6" wide and at least 11 feet high and that is just primers.
Now when it comes to ammo they buy by the semi truck load and it is all delivered at once. Powder is purchased by the ton and bullets are bought by the pallet just how much can you get in that same straight rack truck or even a semi trailer that is 53' long, 13 foot high and 8'-6" wide.
Also a much bigger issue is where they have to buy from as some distributors have limits on what you order can be on both ends min and max just because of the way they get their stuff.
got your head around those figures ? now think how many large outlets there are and what they must buy. Think Walmart, Sportsmans Warehouse, Cabela's etc
Now think about the ammo in private hands.

[lwknight]

I have no way to figure it all out but, I was wondering if the civilians had more ammo than the total military when I started this thread.
The numbers are mind boggling to me at least.

[JIMinPHX]

I can't understand as to why not hold the fire till there was something to shoot at. What good is continuous suppression if the enemy is just hunkered down waiting till they run out of ammo?

They call it "achieving firepower superiority" or something like that. I don't agree with the tactic. I've just been told about it.

[SciFiJim]

Civilians probably have more just because they outnumber the military better than 10 to 1. The military though, has and can afford to shoot bigger guns.

[jdgabbard]

I don't know, but I will say this. I don't think I'll ever have enough...

[jonk]

There are 2 types of ammo:

Ammo that is mine.

Ammo that isn't mine.

As the second category exists, obviously I don't have enough.

[shdwlkr]

just for some more mind numbing fun. the last I knew with the war going on right now lake city was putting out 1,000,000 rounds of 5.56mm per day everyday of the week just to keep the military supplied with that one caliber and they do make other stuff for them also.
Lake City isn't the only contractor for the 5.56mm either so lets say there are 6 cartridge manufacturers making 5.56mm for the military which is close and they are all making 1,000,000 rounds per day which again is close that is 6,000,000 rounds per day everyday or 42,000,000 rounds a week, or 168,000,000 rounds a month in just that one caliber.
Don't think the civilians have any where near that level of ammo in just that one caliber.
Someplace I have what was made in a given period right around when Obama went into office it is a really big number also.