Why is a certain Brass considered junk?

[Salmon-boy]

In looking around on threads selling Brass there's always the occasional "No xxx ****" meaning that headstamp has been sorted out...

Now, I can understand the Win NT .45 ACP cases unless you're specifically loading for it, as I've hung up my press on more than a few, but what of the others?

What headstamps do you cull and why??? Across all calibers, or is it specific ones?

[MT Gianni]

I cull PMC due to inconsistencies.

[mike in co]

all depends on the person and the caliber.

as an example, some people don't like fc in 223 or 308.

some people have personal experience with some brass...me for instants...do not reload speer in 45acp.....why ...when i first started in 45acp..it was the only case that constantly gave me seating issues...so out it went , and i have not looked back.

mike in co

[sargenv]

A lot of UPSPSA shooters don't care for brass marked a-merc... though I've loaded them for 40 S&W and don't seem to have any issues..

[mike in co]

A lot of UPSPSA shooters don't care for brass marked a-merc... though I've loaded them for 40 S&W and don't seem to have any issues..

my wholesale accounts don't like it either...but i cannot afford the time to sort it out...they deal with it.
i load some of my 44 mag on pmc.....just goes to show ya...
mike in co

[35remington]

The problem with A-Merc brass I have in 45 ACP is the same problem shared by Wolf steel cased ammo in 45 ACP....the cut for the extractor groove is undersized, and this tends to damage or overflex the extractor.

The material the case is made of doesn't make much difference, as a steel case with a proper extractor groove cut is no harder on the extractor than brass is.

It's the undersized cut that is the problem.

[jbc]

What problems have been had with fc .308? I bought a couple hundred from a member here and have just started shooting them so what should I look for?

[sagacious]

Problematic cases can vary by manufacturer and be manufacturer-specific by caliber.

I have found:
PMP cases are of such inconsistent quality that they're not worth the time nor risk of loading.

PMC 45ACP cases seem to vary by lot. Some lots have thicker case-walls than others (can cause deep-seating and case-neck tension problems), and some lots have way off-center flash-holes.

A-merc 45ACP cases are the absolute lowest-quality brass I've ever seen. Case wall thickness is widely variable, and primer-pockets are of such discrepant dimensions that newly-loaded primers may actually fall-out of once-fired cases, and cases may bulge sufficiently to prevent chambering with lead reloads, etc, etc. Some A-merc cases (such as 9mm) seem OK, but I paint them all with the same brush and avoid them all.

Some foreign cases are of dubious quality, and I do not reload pistol brass with foreign headstamps. Foreign rifle calibers are loaded only if sufficient quality has been verified.

The new reloader is well advised to avoid the above-noted cases. Forewarned is forearmed. Inspection of brass is one of the most basic and most important safety procedures for reloaders. Every reloader should make it a practice.

[jhrosier]

I have seen Amerc .45 Colt cases split on the first firing.
I had Amerc .44 cases that split when sized.
I don't even pick them up for free, in any caliber.

Jack

[Shiloh]

my wholesale accounts don't like it either...but i cannot afford the time to sort it out...they deal with it.
i load some of my 44 mag on pmc.....just goes to show ya...
mike in co

How could you possibly cull them without looking over every piece?? You pay the price and takes your chances. With the volumes you said you haul to gunshows, the job would be enormous with no time for anything else.


I have seen Amerc .45 Colt cases split on the first firing.
I had Amerc .44 cases that split when sized.
I don't even pick them up for free, in any caliber.

Jack

Same here. The saving grace is that I don't see enough of it to worry. When I come across them they get scrapped. Don't see a lot of PMC either. Most all of that I see is S&B, Winchester, Speer, CCI. A lot of Rem .45ACP. The cops shoot Federal 9mm. and .40

Shiloh

[thenaaks]

s&b 9mm looks small compared to other headstamps...i usually toss in the recycling bucket. fc in 44 mag is always way shorter than others. never had to trim a single piece of it. amerc in 9mm had tight primer pockets. all the win nt i've loaded seemed fine to me.

[RayinNH]

A-merc .38 Special brass has a rim that is almost non-existent. It keeps slipping out of the shell holder when resizing...Ray

[Hip's Ax]

Match shooters avoid Federal rifle brass as it is considered "soft" and after you put all the time into match prepping the brass you reload it twice and the third time it won't hold a primer. All Federal rifle brass I run into goes in the scrap bucket.

Perhaps with cast shooting this might not be a problem seeing as the pressure is low.

[buck1]

For me, PMC rifle brass always shows higher pressures than win,rem ,etc. I toss em.

[two dogs]

a guy gave me some a merc brass for 45/70 all onced fired.i ran five thru the sizer,split all five.threw all sixty left in scrap bucket. what ****.

[anachronism]

Match shooters avoid Federal rifle brass as it is considered "soft" and after you put all the time into match prepping the brass you reload it twice and the third time it won't hold a primer. All Federal rifle brass I run into goes in the scrap bucket.

Perhaps with cast shooting this might not be a problem seeing as the pressure is low.

I sell my Federal rifle brass at the local gunshow. Lately, I don't even trade in it. Now Federal handgun brass is rather dear to me.

[DevilDog83]

All A Merc gets scraped. In .45 ACP my 625 loves Federal, Remington and CCI, thats all the 625 gets. My 1911's will eat anything I feed them. I've had very good luck with PMC in .223, but most of it is from the late 80's/early 90's, maybe it was better then. Fed .308 seems to show bright ring above head after one firing, so it gets loaded once and scraped. When I sell brass, I only sell the stuff I would use myself, anything else gets scraped

[dubber123]

Lessee, had anyone mentioned A-Merc brass is junk? It's the only thing I have found to consistantly make my 1911 choke, I have seen a new box of factory .45 Colt loads that had 6-8 that were too oversized to fit in a Ruger Blackhawk. (never knew Ruger had such tight chambers in .45 Colt huh?). .223 A-Merc split almost 50% of the time on the first firing in a good quality AR-15. Good stuff.

[Nazgul]

Just goes to show you, the best luck I have had with 308 for benchrest is the Federal. I find it consistant in weight, reload it without worrying. Have used some 4-5 times in an M1A.

Don

[KCSO]

IN 45 acp I cull all Remington as they are thinner and need a special sizing die.

[GrizzLeeBear]

Although it may be softer, the main issue with Federal .223 (and to a lesser extent .308) brass is that it is thinner through the web. Leading to loose primer pocket after only 1 or 2 reloads and in extreme cases, head separations. For most Highpower shooters, Federal brass is a reload once and throw away situation so most don't even mess with it because good R-P, Win, LC, etc. brass is readily avialable.

[higgins]

IN 45 acp I cull all Remington as they are thinner and need a special sizing die.

And I prefer R-P .45acp for a particular application for the same reason; I can easily load a .454 bullet that is more accurate in my Blackhawk. Using .452 bullets, I came to the same conclusion KCSO did. I've also kept all the Win NT cases I've picked up in case I run out of LP primers (that couldn't possibly happen could it?). I agree that AMERC is junk based on how many split cases in 9mm, .223, .30 carbine, and .38 spl. I've picked up in my routine scavenging.

[Phat Man Mike]

the brass I don't feel comfortable loading get's pinched with pliers and chucked in the scrap bucket! I wouldn't want to sell and junk brass to a fellow reloader. the only junk stuff I've had trouble with is that federal NT sh**. guess I've been lucky so far. now that I'm loading for my M-44 it's going to be WWB :brokenima

[Echo]

IN 45 acp I cull all Remington as they are thinner and need a special sizing die.

+1 After expanding/belling (with my RCBS dies), they don't provide enough neck tension to keep the boolit from being pushed in further. Any I get are given to a chum who has no problem with them.

[BPCR Bill]

I scrounged a few A-merc 9mm at the range one day and took them home. They looked ok until I deprimed them. Not one flashhole was centered in the primer pocket. If the manufacturing process is that bad I decicded I didn't need to find any other fault with them and put them in the recycle bin.

Regards,
Bill

[evan price]

When I sell bulk brass I take the time to sort out headstamps. I sell the WIN 45 brass for a premium. It's probably the universal consistent 45 acp brass.

A-MERC gets junked in .45. It's *****, plain and simple. I have A-MERC in .223 which was supposedly made by IMI that is nice. I also have the odd A-MERC in other calibers with nowhere near the problems of .45. I don't know if the .45 is made under contract by someone else or on old machinery. All I know is A-MERC 45 gets scrapped every time.

I don't like nickle plated R-P (Remington) in .38 or .357 because it seems more prone to splitting than any other.

Seller & Belloit brass tends to have tighter, unchamfered primer pockets and primers fit tighter. This is good sometimes, sometimes bad in high speed progressive loading.

I've never had trouble with PMC or Aguila brass in any caliber but I hear stories. The stories don't prevent me from shooting it!

I cherish my Starline brass in any caliber I find it. I also have some IMI (Israeli) in .45, .38 spl, and .44 mag that I keep back. I also like Hornady and BHA (Black Hills) brass.

CBC (Magtech) brass is probably my favorite all around generic brass in any caliber I find it. I know it is consistent, in spec, and common for load development.

I sell hundreds of thousands of pieces of brass on other forums (NONE on this forum however due to the idiotic rule about not listing on multiple forums) and I have yet to have a problem because I do not sell anything I wouldn't load- often I pull sales brass out of my own personal buckets for stuff like .357 or .44 mag, 22-250, 8mm mauser, etc...

[mike in co]

[QUOTE=evan price;777724]

I sell hundreds of thousands of pieces of brass on other forums (NONE on this forum however due to the idiotic rule about not listing on multiple forums) QUOTE]

i think you have it wrong..

you cannot list a SPCIFIC ITEM on another forum.
but if you have 50 lots of 500 pcs of 45acp brass....you could list some here.

but if just one lot of 500 s&w...only one place not both

yes ????


mike in co
THE COLORADO BRASS COMPANY

[MT Gianni]

Correct Mike. For Evan it eliminates the people who post here just as links without something to contribute.

[anachronism]

IN 45 acp I cull all Remington as they are thinner and need a special sizing die.

That they are, but I reserve them for silghtly oversize cast bullet loads, if chambering get a bit snug. They work great with .453-.454 bullets in tight chambers.

[mtnman31]

I've got some Win NT in 9mm and I love it. It has been consistent and seems just as durable as any other brass. I originally bought it as loaded ammo. The first firing of that factory load was incredibly clean. The brass looked unfired except for a tiny black smudge in each of the primer pockets. I have never come across any of the .45 ACP brass with small primer pockets so, I can't speak to its quality.

Personally, I think for general shooting (pistol especially) most any brass will be suitable and work fine. If I am loading up some brass to take to range and just blast with and possibility when I can't recover the brass, I just use whatever. On the other hand, if I am making target or hunting ammo I go through the entire laborious work of weighing, sorting, cleaning up primer pockets, trim etc. All that work makes that little piece of brass seem like it's actually made of gold.

Shotgun shooters on the other hand can see an honest and measurable difference in the quality of various hull makes.

[midnight]

I wanted to put in a word about PMP brass. buck1 stated that he gets higher pressures with PMP. In my experience he should. Weigh your brass and you will see why. My Winchester 303 British cases weigh an avg. of about 168gr. My PMP 303 British brass averages about 203gr. Case capacity in the PMP case is much less & pressures will be higher with equal powder charges. But they are he** for strong. One of the biggest complaints about the 303 is short brass life. My own small batch of 40 cases is on their 7th loading with no trimming and only neck sizing. You can get the same performance from the PMP cases with a smaller powder charge. Just don't use data obtained using other cases.

223 brass showed a similar weight distribution only less striking. S&B brass - 99gr, LC07 brass - 94gr, & PMP brass - 105gr.

Bob

[Cherokee]

KSCO - send me all your Rem brass !! I have no problem with loading it and shooting it in my 1911's.

[HodakaGA]

I load a lot of 9mm on a Dillon and pick up a lot at the range. After many, many problems I now cull out all NATO stamped brass regardless of make. It is loaded way over normal pressures and after sizing it WILL NOT chamber in my weapons. The head remains too big. Using that **** did teach me a lesson on checking every reload in my barrel before I head to a match. Now I have a Dillon Chamber Guage and every loaded round gets checked before I box it up.

I like S&B 9mm........except some has crimped primer pockets and some is NATO loaded.

AMERC goes in recycle bucket regardless.

[Harter66]

A-Meric in 9mm ,I broke decapper pins twice due to the way off center flash holes. Somebody gave me 300 pieces of it which went in a bucket of 9s. A piece still shows up now and again ,straight to scrap. I have trouble w/S&B in my 9mm it shoots hot so it gets lotted out and loads reduced.

I have 2 30 cal rifles that require weigh lotted brass to shoot well . Remington and Federal have been the most recently lotted brass both produced as many as 6 in a factory box that were very over or under wieght. . Fromm 100 of each the largest lot of Rem was 37, 31for the Fed. Sadly it was all from the same factory lots. The other 1 I'm still trying to get lots of 20 for.

Shotguns have huge differences a load in low base Fiocci makes 9900 psi at 1470 fps while the Win low base drylok case gives 1450 at 12500 ,steel w/BP CSD 118, 4756,Ballistic Products data ,my hearing and precived recoil. Life spans are about the same across the board . Federal cases for factory steel loads are loaded for throw areaways as crimp are often lost or split on the 1st reload.

[Harter66]

Maybe a better answer is ;

Piece to peice or lot consistancy in all diminsions,head,rim,walls,mouths ,primer pockets,flash holes.
Alloy consistancy lot to lot ,is my LC 54 working, forming,streatching the same as the LC08.
Life span.
Lastly does it work w/my/your gun. Some times some guns just don't get along w/a specific brand,so what might be a gold mine for me might be junk to you.

Examples.
PMC brass is soft ,I knew a fellow w/ a pair of 94 Win in 30-30 ,a 1901 and a 1991 IIRC, both of them swelled the head/rim up big enough to jam the guns closed and locked,he never had any issue w/any other brand although his Dad never had anything but Wins in the older 1.

I'm still shooting some PMC steel shot 12ga for the Fiocchi cases and because its loaded the same as I was loading for $1 less than I could do it. They work in ever shotgun I've ,except the Model 12 . They stick hang up ,and fail to battery. No issue w/the big 3.

My RBH in 45 Colts doesn't like R-P ,period .Won't shoot it into less than 6" @ 30 yd. W/Win and PMC I can count on 5 in 4" and 1 flier at 6" to start a work up. The Wins throw #1 while the PMCs throw #6.

I hope this helps ,I think I've confused myself .

[pdawg_shooter]

You fellows that junk your Federal brass, send it my way. I will pay scrap brass price for it.

[Echo]

IN 45 acp I cull all Remington as they are thinner and need a special sizing die.

+1 - boolits don't get enough neck tension, for me, and my equipment.

[tomme boy]

The only Federal brass that has a Problem is 223. I really like 308W in Federal. I have over 15 loadings on some of the cases. So I don't think it is soft. FC in 223 has a primer crimp. That is the main reason no one wants to mess with it.

[MtGun44]

I love FC brass . . . . . . cull it my way. S&B .45 ACP seems to have slightly shallow
primer pockets, I use it but it is a minor PITA.

Bill

[scb]

IN 45 acp I cull all Remington as they are thinner and need a special sizing die.

That's my experience as well with 45 ACPs'. I had a batch of Rem. 30/40 brass that the necks split on after 2 loadings. They were new un-primed when I got them. Yes I annealed what didn't split and they lasted 2-3 more loadings. I have Win. 30/40 cases that have got 15+ loading on them and some are just now beginning to split.

[midnight]

Looks like I unknowingly revived a 2yr old thread. I was just searching for info on PMP brass and didn't read the date on the post I was responding to. It's still a good subject for discussion.

Bob

[Recluse]

I love FC brass . . . . . . cull it my way.

Bill

Likewise.

One of my top three most consistent loads in 30-06 is with Federal brass, and has been for over twenty years. Some of the Federal brass I have has been reloaded and shot over a dozen times, with the requisite annealing in between.

Amerc is about the only brand I'll scrap the minute I see it--goes straight into the recycle bucket I take to the scrap metal dealer.

For plinking ammo, I pay almost zero attention to the brass unless I have a problem with it on the press. When I do, it's almost always one of the junk brands.

PMC? I bought a lot of PMC ammo in the mid/late 80's and I remember in IPSC competition, it was revered for its brass and how durable the brass was. Some of my PMC brass in .38, 9mm and .45 have probably twenty to thirty reloads through them easy, and STILL going like new.

Wonder if something happened to the company in the past ten years or so?

:coffee: