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cbrick
01-10-2010, 10:34 PM
Today, Angeles Shooting Ranges just north of Los Angeles and a bad day, really really bad day at the range.

Customer (25 year old male) shows up at the public range with a 50 BMG and his own reloads.

First round and the bolt won't close.

Customer wants the bolt closed so pounds on the bolt with his hand. Bolt still won't close.

Customer really, really wants the bolt closed so pounds on the bolt with a hammer.

Paramedic says his best guess is the complete loss of the left hand and right arm almost to the elbow, didn't appear to be any serious head injuries though there was some shrapnel injury to the upper torso.

No idea at this point what the load was, customer wasn't talking much. Doesn't so much make ya wonder "what" the guy was thinking so much as was he even capable of thinking?

As for thinking (or not), while the paramedics were trying to stop some of the bleeding and waiting for the ambulance another customer asks them if they couldn't move him off the firing line so he can resume shooting. :(

Really bad day at the ol shootin range.

Rick

PepperBuddha
01-10-2010, 10:37 PM
http://bbdart.com/smile/crazy.gif

desteve811
01-10-2010, 10:37 PM
Wow!!

Heavy lead
01-10-2010, 10:39 PM
Judas Priest brother. Nothing to say.

Trey45
01-10-2010, 10:40 PM
Guy must work for shop 38, a hammer fixes EVERYTHING.

docone31
01-10-2010, 10:40 PM
Wow, on both counts.
As a consolation prize however, he might qualify for the Darwin Awards as the first one.
Natural selection.

Longrange
01-10-2010, 10:41 PM
Sorry to hear about that. I would like to have further info as it comes avalible about the shooter, gun or ammo problem. Bad form on the other shooter.

dk17hmr
01-10-2010, 10:46 PM
Are 50 BMG's legal in Cali?

To bad....but he really wanted to shoot that 50 bmg.

Heavy lead
01-10-2010, 10:50 PM
My 15 year old nephew will get this thread forwarded in an email to him. He listens to his Uncle Steve for right now and does handload, cast and shoot under my supervision, as well as some light gunsmith work. So far he shows respect for the controlled potential catastophies we engage in everytime we pull the trigger. Like I've always told him, if something doesn't look, feel or sound right, make safe and figure it out.
Sad. Dumb **** kid probably is just winging it, just don't get it, but then again we who knows who if anyone even taught him the destructive forces that happen in the chamber of a rifle, perfect example of having no respect for PSI.

swheeler
01-10-2010, 11:30 PM
"didn't appear to be any serious head injuries though " I think they may have been old injuries. Thank God he wasn't killed or worse an innocent at the range killed. Now all that can be done is pray for the best.

kodiak1
01-10-2010, 11:41 PM
They Walk Among us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's Your Sign.
Sad.

Ken

redneckdan
01-10-2010, 11:53 PM
T
As for thinking (or not), while the paramedics were trying to stop some of the bleeding and waiting for the ambulance another customer asks them if they couldn't move him off the firing line so he can resume shooting. :(






I hear ya. Last weekend during a GS race a high school girl biffed hard. I'm in the middle of clearing her spine when the coach comes over to me and asks if I can move her to the side and continue my assessment while they restart the race. I told him in no uncertain terms I would not standard down range of spandex clad nimrods hurtling down the hill at high velocity. Some people seem to have their head so far up there posterior they have no clue what is happening around them.

wistlepig1
01-11-2010, 12:09 AM
I foreward to all my shooting friends. WOW

Frank46
01-11-2010, 12:37 AM
The inconsideration of other people in cases like this simply amazes me. My dog got out and one of the children came over on a 4 wheeler to let me know where he was. Drove over to thank them personally and 15 minutes Bob was back home. Darn dog had me so worried. He's a stray that sort of adopted us and we him. Weighs about 70lbs and is a loveable dog. Frank

Firebricker
01-11-2010, 12:48 AM
At least no one else was hurt. Still a bad deal all the way around that guy's has serious permanant injury. And it fuel's the anti's effort's against gun's and reloading. The other thing I thought was even if the rifle was empty and no safety risk when does a man decide it's a
"good idea" to beat on his $8000 rifle (price is a guess) with a hammer ? FB

mike in co
01-11-2010, 01:13 AM
Today, Angeles Shooting Ranges just north of Los Angeles and a bad day, really really bad day at the range.

Customer (25 year old male) shows up at the public range with a 50 BMG and his own reloads.

First round and the bolt won't close.

Customer wants the bolt closed so pounds on the bolt with his hand. Bolt still won't close.

Customer really, really wants the bolt closed so pounds on the bolt with a hammer.

Paramedic says his best guess is the complete loss of the left hand and right arm almost to the elbow, didn't appear to be any serious head injuries though there was some shrapnel injury to the upper torso.

No idea at this point what the load was, customer wasn't talking much. Doesn't so much make ya wonder "what" the guy was thinking so much as was he even capable of thinking?

As for thinking (or not), while the paramedics were trying to stop some of the bleeding and waiting for the ambulance another customer asks them if they couldn't move him off the firing line so he can resume shooting. :(

Really bad day at the ol shootin range.

Rick

ok rick were you there, did you see this, or just a report from someone else? as someone else pointed out, ka has made a big deal of 5bmg being not legal in thier repulik.
so how does this guy to get to operate a 50 at the angeles range ?

mike in co

9.3X62AL
01-11-2010, 01:23 AM
LOTS of 50 BMG rifles here--just no new ones since whenever the Governator made them verboten.

The accident was tragic, but preventable. (A hammer??) The selfish ****** who wanted the injured shooter moved is just the usual Angeleno me-first HUA moron in progress. Another day in L.A.

Recluse
01-11-2010, 01:36 AM
The selfish ****** who wanted the injured shooter moved is just the usual Angeleno me-first HUA moron in progress. Another day in L.A.

Al, you beat me to it.

Problem is, those selfish, inconsiderate, "me-first and me-ONLY" asshats are migrating eastward and landing here in Texas (among other places). You oughta here them berate our grocery store cashiers, restaurant workers, etc etc. There IS NO making these alpha-hotels happy. Therefore my tolerance is actually zero for them, as is the tolerance of other longtime native Texans.

Everytime I see one of these mouthy, FAT and UGLY disgraces to humanity that have oozed out here from the left coast or north of the Mason-Dixon line, I normally try and find a way to get away from them. But when cornered and nowhere to go, I let them have it--and in no uncertain terms.

I probably oughta see a shrink. I'm getting LESS tolerant and understanding the older I get. Most folks mellow out and become more tolerant.

:coffee:

cbrick
01-11-2010, 01:40 AM
ok rick were you there, did you see this, or just a report from someone else? as someone else pointed out, ka has made a big deal of 5bmg being not legal in thier repulik. so how does this guy to get to operate a 50 at the angeles range ? mike in co

I was there but on a different range at the time. I am a part owner of the range and spoke with the range manager as the ambulance, paramedic trucks, fire trucks, sheriffs cars and forest ranger vehicles were leaving. Amazing how much blood can come out of one person, that I saw. On the bright side I didn't hear of anyone else being hurt other than maybe some severely stained underwear.

Can no longer buy the 50 in CA but any that were already here before the ban date are OK and there are a lot of them here. They aren't uncommon.

At Angeles Ranges anything that you can legally own can be fired there. IQ tests are not administered when entering the range so there wasn't any reason to keep him out.

Rick

fatnhappy
01-11-2010, 01:49 AM
but I'm not too sympathetic to the idiot. Better he maim himself than kill some innocent bystander. Kind of like drunk drivers, they usually kill the innocent.

Now that he has removed his opposable thumbs, he can take his rightful place in the evolutionary chain.

Bullshop Junior
01-11-2010, 01:50 AM
Wow, on both counts.
As a consolation prize however, he might qualify for the Darwin Awards as the first one.
Natural selection.
He did not die, so does not qualify.

Bullshop Junior
01-11-2010, 01:54 AM
Did the hammer make it go off, or did he pull the trigger?

Frozone
01-11-2010, 02:09 AM
Hats off to the guy who told em to move him! MORE people should be like that.
Same problem with traffic accidents - scrape em up, tag em, bag em, and Clear MY road.

geargnasher
01-11-2010, 02:42 AM
Did the hammer make it go off, or did he pull the trigger?

My question as well.

To qualify for a Darwin, I think the only requirement is the candidate must remove themselves from the gene pool. Most of the time that means death, but if the guy had lost other parts of his anatomy he would probably qualify unless he had already reproduced.

Recluse, going to the shrink won't help ya. All they do is send you to the other kind of shrink who prescribes little pastel-colored pills that dim you perception of reality to the point that you're deluded into thinking those jerks aren't so bad.

Gear

ETG
01-11-2010, 03:13 AM
Does anyone know what brand rifle it was?

JIMinPHX
01-11-2010, 04:17 AM
How did Darwin miss that one?

lwknight
01-11-2010, 05:10 AM
In 12 years of firefighting, I never figured out why it was that when the victims were out of the car and road that we could not just push the cars clear and let traffic go.
Always the DPS had to come fool around like forever before allowing the cars moved by the wrecker. I finally quit for several other reasons like having to use the siren on the interstate where cars were passing the firetruck anyway
Paramedics would mess around often way too long before transporting just because of paperwork that IMO could WAIT till the injured party was taken to a facility.

exile
01-11-2010, 06:29 AM
Very sorry to hear about this man's injury. As a former vocational rehabilitation counselor, I can tell you this man's problems are just beginning. Loss of employment, loss of freinds, probably loss of wife if he has one, instant entry into poverty or at least lower socio-economic status etc. etc., etc.,... I can only hope he has a strong family that will stay with him through the transition.

On another note, it seems logical that one should never try to force any mechanical object to do something it does not want to do with ease. One should not beat on any mechanical contrivance with a hammer, be it firearm or otherwise.

As a former V.R. counselor, I can tell you that these types of occurances are much more common with cars, boats, motorcycles, industrial accidents etc., than with firearms, however the fact is that the anti-gunners will use this to their full advantage. That is a shame.

Life without hands, wow! I cannot imagine anything worse. I assume he was wearing eye protection and that his eyes are o.k.

It seems strange to me that this kind of abberant behavior would occur with a guy who was a reloader using something like a 50 BMG. You would think a guy with that level of committment to shooting would have more sense, of course having money I guess does not give you good sense.

It is almost a wonder that the guys on either side of him didn't yell at him to stop what he was doing, right before they ran for the hills. Makes me glad I don't shoot on a public range anymore. It is a good reminder for all of us to never let our guard down when doing anything in today's crazy world, especially anything to do with firearms.

I am glad no one else was hurt and hope that this man and his family don't try to blame his lack of good sense on anyone or anything else.

I wonder what Arnold Schwartznegger will say?

O.K. now I am rambling.

exile

Wayne Smith
01-11-2010, 08:23 AM
Bad day, indeed. Let's hope it does not become political.

Recluse, as a shrink I simply look at them and ask - "Excuse me, did you take you medicine this morning?" I kno, I kno, there's no medicine for this, but it does tend to make them pause for a minute.

Echo
01-11-2010, 10:22 AM
Hats off to the guy who told em to move him! MORE people should be like that.
Same problem with traffic accidents - scrape em up, tag em, bag em, and Clear MY road.

Ditto.

rockrat
01-11-2010, 10:37 AM
Another black mark against us that shoot the 50bmg. I am sure the anti's will pounce on this. The 50 is NOT a caliber that beginner reloaders should start on. Seen some questions on AR15.com, by beginners, that will bring chills down your spine. They want to start with MAX loads. Usually, they get a good taking to about what to do, but some don't seem to want to listen.
This may have been one of them.

9.3X62AL
01-11-2010, 10:44 AM
Hats off to the guy who told em to move him! MORE people should be like that.
Same problem with traffic accidents - scrape em up, tag em, bag em, and Clear MY road.

Even after 28 years of law enforcement, I can't conjure up that depth of callousness. Yeah, the guy was a dork. He created the conditions that led to his own injury. But compromising or complicating whatever medical conditions existed TO SUIT THE MERE CONVENIENCE OF OTHERS ENGAGED IN RECREATIONAL SHOOTING is unconscionable to me. See my earlier post for opinion of such attitudes.

Mallard57
01-11-2010, 12:55 PM
Everytime I see one of these mouthy, FAT and UGLY disgraces to humanity that have oozed out here from the left coast or north of the Mason-Dixon line, I normally try and find a way to get away from them. But when cornered and nowhere to go, I let them have it--and in no uncertain terms.

Funny, after 20 plus years in the Military I didn't realize that being an alpha-hotel was confined to being from a certain geographical area!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff

JSnover
01-11-2010, 01:06 PM
Did the hammer make it go off, or did he pull the trigger?

Probably wrapped his finger around trigger to get a better grip as he wound up for the first hammer blow. "I can fix it. Watch this....!"

dragonrider
01-11-2010, 01:08 PM
You can bet that the lawyers are lining up out side his hospital room right now.

44man
01-11-2010, 01:16 PM
The head injuries were there before he loaded the rounds! :violin:

Recluse
01-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Hats off to the guy who told em to move him! MORE people should be like that.
Same problem with traffic accidents - scrape em up, tag em, bag em, and Clear MY road.

Oh yeah. . . :rolleyes:

Now, if it's your wife or kids who have just been creamed by a drunk driver on the highway, I'd love to see YOU honking and waving and cussing for the paramedics to clear off YOUR road so you can resume doing whatever it is you do that you're in such a hurry to do.

And then I'd love to see your face when you drove by and realized WHO the victims were. :rolleyes:

:coffee:

redneckdan
01-11-2010, 02:19 PM
In 12 years of firefighting, I never figured out why it was that when the victims were out of the car and road that we could not just push the cars clear and let traffic go.
Always the DPS had to come fool around like forever before allowing the cars moved by the wrecker. I finally quit for several other reasons like having to use the siren on the interstate where cars were passing the firetruck anyway
Paramedics would mess around often way too long before transporting just because of paperwork that IMO could WAIT till the injured party was taken to a facility.

In my area of knowledge, the main reason for not moving a victim unless absolutely vital is to avoid further injury or affecting injuries that are not yet known. Once the victim is enroute I would assume that law enforcement would want to document the scene. Before moving vehicles around.

I too noticed it seems like the EMS takes too long assessing the patient before departing for the hospital....then again they are better educated than I for their particular AO. I can't count the number of times a park rat has asked us why we can't just throw his buddy (who just experienced a high energy fall onto his cervical/thoracic spine) in a tobbogan so we can clear the scene and get the jump opened again. [smilie=b:

redneckdan
01-11-2010, 02:22 PM
"Last weekend during a GS race a high school girl biffed hard."

so I ask myself what is a "GS race" Is it some kind of Nascar?

and what is a "Biffed"


GS= giant slalom- a down hill ski race

Biffed= park rat for messed up and got hurt..... see definition number 2

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=biffed&defid=1093383

Most of my customers are of the terrain park variety....spend enough time around them and you pick up their dialect.

kirb
01-11-2010, 02:35 PM
I feel sorry for the man who was injured. I feel bad for the owners of the range and hope that they will be able to keep the range open for others to enjoy. Any time something like this happens all stand to lose. Our range is on city property and our club cares insurance, I am afraid if any thing like that happened at our range it would be closed by our insurance or the city because of law suits. people do stupid thing every day with firearms at ranges and it is every one responsibility to try and stop these kind of things from happening do not be afraid to step up and stop some from doing some thing wrong.
I have my share of screw up trying to be careful and thinking things threw but I still end up with a cut finger sore or tender spot. Stay safe. Shoot straight hope every one has a good day.

Part of a poem I have a work

I could of saved a life that day.
But I chose to look the other way.
It wasn't that I didn't care
I had the time and I was there
But I didn't want to seem the fool
Or argue over a safety rule.

If you see a risk others take,
That puts their health or life at stake
The question asked, or thing you say,
Could help them live another day
If you see a risk and walk away,
Then hope you never have to say,
I could have saved a life that day,
But I chose to look the others.


Kirb

Lloyd Smale
01-11-2010, 02:37 PM
ruger will probably start putting a no hammer warning on there rifle barrels! Seriously Id about bet like rockrat said the antis are going to use this to prove there point that the bmg is a dangerous thing for a civilian to have. Fricking a holes!

wills
01-11-2010, 03:01 PM
In 12 years of firefighting, I never figured out why it was that when the victims were out of the car and road that we could not just push the cars clear and let traffic go.
Always the DPS had to come fool around like forever before allowing the cars moved by the wrecker.


No telling how many times I have seen that. No sign of injuries, or else the injured have all been transported, and hundreds or thousands of cars are backed up, engines idling, people being made late for work or wherever they are going, and the police are standing around.

SPRINGFIELDM141972
01-11-2010, 03:12 PM
I probably oughta see a shrink. I'm getting LESS tolerant and understanding the older I get. Most folks mellow out and become more tolerant.

:coffee:

Don't you dare see a shrink and leave me the only one slipping into a irreversable case of "Don't tread on me". Boy don't they get a funny look on their faces when they hear the bald face truth.

Everett

OutHuntn84
01-11-2010, 04:16 PM
I feel sorry for the man who was injured. I feel bad for the owners of the range and hope that they will be able to keep the range open for others to enjoy. Any time something like this happens all stand to lose. Our range is on city property and our club cares insurance, I am afraid if any thing like that happened at our range it would be closed by our insurance or the city because of law suits. people do stupid thing every day with firearms at ranges and it is every one responsibility to try and stop these kind of things from happening do not be afraid to step up and stop some from doing some thing wrong.
I have my share of screw up trying to be careful and thinking things threw but I still end up with a cut finger sore or tender spot. Stay safe. Shoot straight hope every one has a good day.

Part of a poem I have a work

I could of saved a life that day.
But I chose to look the other way.
It wasn't that I didn't care
I had the time and I was there
But I didn't want to seem the fool
Or argue over a safety rule.

If you see a risk others take,
That puts their health or life at stake
The question asked, or thing you say,
Could help them live another day
If you see a risk and walk away,
Then hope you never have to say,
I could have saved a life that day,
But I chose to look the others.


Kirb

Well said!!!
That is the only thing I could think of when I read this. Why didn't someone stop him, take the hammer away tell the range master/ owner. How can you let someone endanger themselves or other bystanders. Given I hate the thought of babysitting another adult, but come on letting a guy do that? I just don't understand.

lwknight
01-11-2010, 04:17 PM
Don't you dare see a shrink and leave me the only one slipping into a irreversable case of "Don't tread on me". Boy don't they get a funny look on their faces when they hear the bald face truth.

Everett

I've had this discussion with my grumpy friends too. We basically decided that we are more mature and more mellow. The thing that obscures it , is that we are just tired of the same old **** that never changes. And that makes us more irritatable.

Tazman1602
01-11-2010, 06:01 PM
Maybe it's just God's way of sorting out the stupid ones?

Don't mean to sound indifferent but I kinda am --- except to the range owner who may now get sued for this guys stupidity.

That is singly one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life Good Lord man!

JSnover
01-11-2010, 06:13 PM
Funny, after 20 plus years in the Military I didn't realize that being an alpha-hotel was confined to being from a certain geographical area!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff

They're not exactly, but...... I was transplanted to Mass over 20 years ago. Some parts of the country sure do seem to have a have a higher concentration of two-legged sphincters.

Geraldo
01-11-2010, 06:17 PM
Hats off to the guy who told em to move him! MORE people should be like that.
Same problem with traffic accidents - scrape em up, tag em, bag em, and Clear MY road.

The problem is that there are too many people like that already. The "it's all about me and what I want" attitude is a big part of our cultural problem these days.

JSnover
01-11-2010, 06:41 PM
Hats off to the guy who told em to move him! MORE people should be like that.
Same problem with traffic accidents - scrape em up, tag em, bag em, and Clear MY road.

Yeah. It's a shame when someone else's serious personal injury or death inconveniences the rest of us, isn't it.....?

TCLouis
01-11-2010, 10:41 PM
Recluse
If you think they are damageing TX, ask someone from Denver about them or the rest of the state of CO.

Mk42gunner
01-11-2010, 11:16 PM
I can not imagine the anguish this young man will go through for the rest of his life, knowing that he lost both of his hands due to his own stupidity.

In a just world there would be no chance of a lawsuit; as soon as he told a lawyer, "The gun wouldn't close, so I hit it with a hammer." The lawyer should start laughing.

I hope he will be okay, he wouldn't be the first double amputee that shoots and reloads, anybody remember C. Rodney James?



Robert

cbrick
01-12-2010, 12:20 AM
Update:

I spent a bunch of time on the phone today to try and get better, more current info. Still seems to be some conflicting reports and everyone that was on the firing line seems to have their own ideas, the best I've come up with is the on duty range manager could have exaggerated the severity of the injuries. Still not sure but as of tonight it seems that possibly the loss of the left hand, possibly a couple of fingers on the right hand and the right arm severly broken between the wrist and elbow.

I'll try again tomorrow to get hold of the President of the Board (he who runs the range and I know well) and get more solid info. Best I know for sure right now is that there were very serious injuries but probably not as severe as originaly reported. It's also pretty consistent that he was seen hitting the bolt with the hammer.

New update as I was typing this, just got off the phone with Ron C, (General Manager and President of the Board of ASR) it appears that it's possible some of his fingers can be saved. While Ron wasn't at the range when this happened he also was told that the injured persons friend that was there shooting with him had said that he did in fact hit the bolt with the hammer. There were two hammers on the bench with his shooting gear, a carpenters claw hammer and a three pound sledge hammer.

No one else in the area was hit by anything (thank the Lord). The only part of the cartridge case that was found was the case head still inside the action, the rest of it is gone and not to be found.

So for what I know as of now it's a very serious injury but hopefully not as bad as first thought. No idea as of tonight if he has lawyered up or not.

As I learn anything new I'll post it in case anyone is interested.

Rick

dubber123
01-12-2010, 12:52 AM
Who carries a claw hammer and a 3 lb. sledge in their range bag?

cbrick
01-12-2010, 01:10 AM
Who carries a claw hammer and a 3 lb. sledge in their range bag?

I have only ever known of one person to do that. :veryconfu They were there though, I looked at the photos the range has of the shooting area for the file they created of the incident.

Those aren't even tools that I have in my loading room much less in my range bag but what do I know, I don't shoot the 50 bigg'in.

Rick

ETG
01-12-2010, 02:44 AM
Over on Calguns the friend that was with him did post. Supposedly he should make a full recovery but will take a long time. He posted that he did not use the hammer on the bolt but was using the palm of his hand. He said the hammers were used to drive the target stands in the ground. From the description of the injury and the shape the gun was in (basically intact with the bolt blown out the right side) would be consistent with his hand being right beside the bolt. If he had used a hammer he would probably have faired better since his hand would have been further away. The bolt did not exit the gun. Looks like the firing pin almost went through the buffer tube of the stock. Below is a link to the thread with pics of the gun and blood. I read 18 pages during lunch and now it has grown to 26. They don't seem to be a real friendly bunch over there.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=258040

Funny - Bohica shut down the forum on their web site - they can’t stand any criticism.

lwknight
01-12-2010, 02:46 AM
Thats about like a guy that worked under me. I told him to use work clamps on a gear driven drill press. He said " It has never bit me yet " I told him "Just do it" and walked away for a moment then heard a commotion and ran back to see a finger laying in the floor.
I guess I should have stood there and made him use the clamps instead of thinking that he would.

Recluse
01-12-2010, 04:39 AM
They don't seem to be a real friendly bunch over there.

Freakin' Californians. . . the SANE and NORMAL ones are the exception out there. Sometimes I think we need to build a fence from around Barstow all the way up north to the Oregon border. If you don't cast boolits, then you can't come east for any reason.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=258040

Funny - Bohica shut down the forum on their web site - they can’t stand any criticism.

If I was in charge of Bohica, you better believe I'd shut it down, too. And in one helluva bigtime HURRY.

IF what even SOME of the stuff I've been reading is even ten percent true in regards to documented Bohica failures, along with faulty, inaccurate instruction manuals, then Bohica reall DOES stand for Bend Over, Here It Comes Again.

I'm not much of one for suin' somebody. But if you're knowingly putting out a defective product or you are otherwise stating facts to the contrary to that which you know to be true. . . then you need to pay up when someone gets hurt. Then you either need to fix the problem or shut your doors.

No more of "business as usual, let the insurance company handle it."

I am VERY thankful the young man is going to be okay, that he DID NOT use a hammer to close the bolt, and that he didn't lose both hands as was originally thought. I also hope and prays that when he recovers, he'll continue to be a member of the shooting world--albeit sans a 50BMG.

:coffee:

wallenba
01-12-2010, 11:05 AM
No serious head injuries? I think he must have had some previous trauma to the cranial cavity region.

9.3X62AL
01-12-2010, 11:26 AM
It's good that the shooter's prognosis is improving, and that evidence of hammer usage (!) on the rifle's bolt has been discounted. It's meat for the lawyers now, I'd say.

Thanks to CB Rick for posting and updating as facts came to light.

Phat Man Mike
01-12-2010, 11:42 AM
how sad!! but if the bolt won't close don't force it IMO:-(

rwt101
01-12-2010, 11:49 AM
Who carries a claw hammer and a 3 lb. sledge in their range bag?

There were 3 hammers on the bench.
Bob T

Beekeeper
01-12-2010, 12:06 PM
OK recluse,
We think the same about those stupid Texans( notice I capatilized it) out here.
As a used to be Texan (and I can say that as I was born there)you can keep the place.
I may not be a redneck anymore but people like you with an attitude like yours is one of the main reasons I left and do not plan on returning

People like you are one of the main reasons they have the Darwin Awards.
So you keep on living in your foxhole and when the time comes someone will drop a couple of shovels full of dirt on you ,"maybe"

beekeeper

redneckdan
01-12-2010, 12:07 PM
They don't seem to be a real friendly bunch over there.



They aren't.


I've done some business with california buyers. The ones I've encountered here on the 'boolits forum are good people. Others I've dealt with through THR are suffering from rectal/cranial inversion. Then again I guess you could say that of just about anywhere.

JesterGrin_1
01-12-2010, 12:34 PM
I am sorry but where was the Range Master or even a fellow shooter that would have been near this shooter that saw him beating on the bolt. Someone should have stepped up to stop this person and or to help him find the problem.

Yes the shooter was at fault but so would be the people that knew better that could view what was going on and did not step up to the plate.

But as said the good part is that nobody else was hurt.

Jayhem
01-12-2010, 12:36 PM
And this is why they do not allow handloads at many gun ranges.

Firebricker
01-12-2010, 12:36 PM
I hope he will be okay, he wouldn't be the first double amputee that shoots and reloads, anybody remember C. Rodney James?



Robert

I read one of his books he lost his hands very young I believe he was making home made fireworks or black powder. Despite his injury he made a lot of achievments in life. I hope the guy at the range can move on as Mr. James did. FB

JesterGrin_1
01-12-2010, 12:42 PM
I feel sorry for the man who was injured. I feel bad for the owners of the range and hope that they will be able to keep the range open for others to enjoy. Any time something like this happens all stand to lose. Our range is on city property and our club cares insurance, I am afraid if any thing like that happened at our range it would be closed by our insurance or the city because of law suits. people do stupid thing every day with firearms at ranges and it is every one responsibility to try and stop these kind of things from happening do not be afraid to step up and stop some from doing some thing wrong.
I have my share of screw up trying to be careful and thinking things threw but I still end up with a cut finger sore or tender spot. Stay safe. Shoot straight hope every one has a good day.

Part of a poem I have a work

I could of saved a life that day.
But I chose to look the other way.
It wasn't that I didn't care
I had the time and I was there
But I didn't want to seem the fool
Or argue over a safety rule.

If you see a risk others take,
That puts their health or life at stake
The question asked, or thing you say,
Could help them live another day
If you see a risk and walk away,
Then hope you never have to say,
I could have saved a life that day,
But I chose to look the other way.


Kirb

Very True :)

philthephlier
01-12-2010, 03:47 PM
I am sorry but where was the Range Master or even a fellow shooter that would have been near this shooter that saw him beating on the bolt. Someone should have stepped up to stop this person and or to help him find the problem.

Yes the shooter was at fault but so would be the people that knew better that could view what was going on and did not step up to the plate.

But as said the good part is that nobody else was hurt.

My guess is that once he resorted to the hammer the event probably took place within seconds, not enough time to react other than to yell. If I was within 4 benches of his and saw the hammering I would have stepped back and yelled at him to stop. I would not approach him while he is hammering on the bolt. Why risk two lives.

Tazman1602
01-12-2010, 03:56 PM
Man Jester I do agree to a certain extent, BUT, if I saw someone doing that at the range I would YELL at them as I was FALLING BACK at a very fast clip but no way would I go forwards toward them............

I appreciate other human beings but I have a very strong sense of self preservation when it comes to guns...........

I sure with the guy all the best, he's got a tough row to hoe in front of him.

Art


I am sorry but where was the Range Master or even a fellow shooter that would have been near this shooter that saw him beating on the bolt. Someone should have stepped up to stop this person and or to help him find the problem.

Yes the shooter was at fault but so would be the people that knew better that could view what was going on and did not step up to the plate.

But as said the good part is that nobody else was hurt.

Bula
01-12-2010, 07:28 PM
Not Good. My prayers are with him and his family. I will tell you one thing, there are plenty of guys out there capable of this type of accident/neglect. Scary stuff. We'll probably never get the real story on this.

Recluse
01-12-2010, 08:39 PM
OK recluse,
We think the same about those stupid Texans( notice I capatilized it) out here.
As a used to be Texan (and I can say that as I was born there)you can keep the place.
I may not be a redneck anymore but people like you with an attitude like yours is one of the main reasons I left and do not plan on returning

beekeeper

GOOD! One down, many to go.

Why is it that southerners and Texans, when we get relocated to places like CA, NJ, MA, IL or wherever, move there and DON'T try to change laws and ways of doing things "the way we did it in Texas," but people from CA, NJ, MA, Il or wherever move down HERE and constantly rag us about "how we did it in Boston or San Fran?"

And, when's the last time anyone in Dallas or Atlanta or Birmingham stayed up all night celebrating in one bar after another because they were getting transferred to Boston or Los Angeles?

You're DAMNED right you can keep that screwed up state as far away from us as geographically possible.

Problem is, that ain't what's happening. States are getting Californicated right and left.

I feel for the good folks who are trying to hang on out there. I really do. They're fighting a losing battle.

:coffee:

Firebricker
01-12-2010, 08:48 PM
I just read most of the thread at calgunforum now I feel bad for jumping to conclusions. Seem's like a pretty rough crowd over there. It's like the guy's on trial over there. His friend that was there posted that he used the palm of his to hand tap the bolt handle. FB

cbrick
01-12-2010, 09:18 PM
Recluse,

Ah the joy of Texas. The only perfect place in the land right? Nothing bigger, nothing better!

One of the most arrogant, self centered, egotistical, selfish it's all about me and screw you *****s I have ever met lives two door from me. He has lived there for about a year now, ever since he moved here from Texas where he was born, raised and spent most of his working life.

There is no place in the country you can go (or I have been) that you don't run into Texans and sooner or later (mostly sooner) the conversation will turn into how great Texas is. If Texas is so great why are they leaving? Why are they here? Why don't they go back, after all Texas is great isn't it? Why are they all so d*mned annoying? Then when you tell them that you have no desire to talk about Texas they get the deer in the headlight look and go right back to talking about Texas.

Rick

Uncle Grinch
01-12-2010, 10:06 PM
"didn't appear to be any serious head injuries though " I think they may have been old injuries. Thank God he wasn't killed or worse an innocent at the range killed. Now all that can be done is pray for the best.


Some people seem to have a head start on "head injuries".

SciFiJim
01-12-2010, 10:26 PM
Why is it that southerners and Texans, when we get relocated to places like CA, NJ, MA, IL or wherever, move there and DON'T try to change laws and ways of doing things "the way we did it in Texas,"

I am trying. I vote in every election and contact my local, state, and fed politicians and let them know how I think things should proceed. Sometimes if feels like trying to hold back the tide with a butterfly net. As an example... No that should be posted in the political forum.
This thread is about someone who had a "really, really bad day at the range" whether from neglect, stupidity, or mechanical failure. We don't know the root cause of the incident and probably never will. I wish the shooter well in his recovery.

Beekeeper
01-12-2010, 10:33 PM
The reason is recluse,
Most of the Texans that leave Texas are awe struck by how big the rest of the World really is.
When they get someplace it is so much better than Texas there is nothing they want to change.

But thats OK you go ahead and dig that foxhole and prepare for the next invasion.
Make it 6.5 feet long, 3 feet wide and 6.5 feet deep.
That way the rest of the world won't have to dig it for you.
By the way you better start saving them confederate dollars again. Be sure to bury them out back of the plantation house in an old mason jar, use a lead lid as the new ones rust real bad and we don't want them confederate dollars to spoil before you get a chance to use them.

I know,
If you invite all of your snake eater friends to come live on the old plantation you will be able to defend it against all of the interloping carpetbaggers moving in and trying to ruin the old home place.

Enjoy your mint julip Colenol

Recluse
01-12-2010, 11:14 PM
I am trying. I vote in every election and contact my local, state, and fed politicians and let them know how I think things should proceed. Sometimes if feels like trying to hold back the tide with a butterfly net.

I know, man, I know. That's why I feel for the good folks there. You're outnumbered--and when you DO win one, the Sacramento Supremes immediately neuter it and tie it up in the courts for eternity. Meanwhile the screwed up status quo beast grows more heads.

The very thing that makes California what it is is also what ultimately does it in. The state has the most diverse and beautiful geography anywhere in the entire world. But that is also what attracts all the flakes and bottom-feeders of society. And they reproduce faster than drunk jackrabbits. Having had a successive string of loser governors hasn't helped, nor has the communist sisters in the U.S. Senate. Will not even start with NP.

But a majority has to elect these people--same as with Kennedy and Kerry up in the NE.


This thread is about someone who had a "really, really bad day at the range" whether from neglect, stupidity, or mechanical failure. We don't know the root cause of the incident and probably never will. I wish the shooter well in his recovery.

Yep, and the CA forum in which the incident was first published tore into the guy with a viciousness you rarely see anywhere else. And even when the facts were given via an eyewitness, that still didn't matter to a number of the locals on that forum and they still continued to rip into the guy.

That is just bull youknowwhat. The guy is/was a fellow gun-owner and shooter and some buttwipe complains to the range officer to have the paramedics hurry up and move the bleeding guy so he/they could get back to shooting? *** is up with THAT??? And then people AGREE with that sentiment???

During my years in LE, there were only two locales where I ever constantly heard bystanders urging "tightrope walkers" (aka Jumpers) to jump, to DO IT! That was in Los Angeles and San Francisco. Urging someone to commit suicide so they could watch. You gotta be a real wackjob to want to see that. And it happened all the time in LA and SF.

Which is why the reaction of some LA shooters on that forum in regards to the young man's serious injuries, while disgusting, were not surprising.

Bad enough fellow human beings would do that to one another. But for fellow shooters. . .unforgivable.

:coffee:

fatnhappy
01-12-2010, 11:23 PM
GOOD! One down, many to go.

Why is it that southerners and Texans, when we get relocated to places like CA, NJ, MA, IL or wherever, move there and DON'T try to change laws and ways of doing things "the way we did it in Texas," but people from CA, NJ, MA, Il or wherever move down HERE and constantly rag us about "how we did it in Boston or San Fran?"

And, when's the last time anyone in Dallas or Atlanta or Birmingham stayed up all night celebrating in one bar after another because they were getting transferred to Boston or Los Angeles?

You're DAMNED right you can keep that screwed up state as far away from us as geographically possible.

Problem is, that ain't what's happening. States are getting Californicated right and left.

I feel for the good folks who are trying to hang on out there. I really do. They're fighting a losing battle.

:coffee:

Just remember, Maryland and DC are south of the Mason Dixon line. You claimed ownership. Good luck with that.

MT Gianni
01-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Are we ready to shut this down or get back on topic? Offshoots are fine and a tradition but "your State is worse than mine" attitudes should stop being voiced.

Cadillo
01-13-2010, 12:22 AM
OK recluse,
We think the same about those stupid Texans( notice I capatilized it) out here.
As a used to be Texan (and I can say that as I was born there)you can keep the place.
I may not be a redneck anymore but people like you with an attitude like yours is one of the main reasons I left and do not plan on returning

People like you are one of the main reasons they have the Darwin Awards.
So you keep on living in your foxhole and when the time comes someone will drop a couple of shovels full of dirt on you ,"maybe"

beekeeper



Beekeeper,

Don't believe everything you think!

Back in 1987 Uncle Sam sent me to California and it took me almost eleven years to get out of that bunghole, but get out I did as soon as I could swing a transfer. I crossed the state line in Yuma on I-8 and as soon as I cleared town, where I could safely pull over, I got out, knelt and kissed the ground just like in the movies. I would have never imagined that sand could taste so good or air smell so sweet.

Happiness is California beyond the range of the rear view mirror!

If you crave more attention, hang a pork chop from around your neck and go outdoors. The neighborhood dogs will play with you. They are your friends. They understand.

Frank
01-13-2010, 01:56 AM
One idea that was proposed was the guy was fireforming to make 50 TDC which is legal in California. Imagine that, the govt bans 50BMG, but there are dedicated enthusiasts in California who come up with a solution to beat it. So this guy was one of the individuals who put in the time, effort and money to have a 50TDC. Good for him. We should all support him. But the Lee die doesn't push the shoulder back enough. So a fireformed case can be tight. Using an EDM die solves the problem. So in the meantime he uses his hand to chamber it and BANG. I obviously can't coroborate all the facts, but it seems to me that if that stupid law wasn't passed banning 50 BMG, then this guy would still have his fingers. The blame isn't the shooter, or the suppliers. It's the system that put him in the spot he is in. If there wasn't a 50 BMG ban, then there wouldn't have been an accident. Stop blaming the gun rights crowd for the problem. The problem was with the politicians who made political gain from the ban, resulting in a messing with the configuration. Focus the energy on them. We're Americans and have a Second Amendment that shouldn't have been messed with in the first place. Why do we need to reconfigure rifles to please them? They need to reconfigure themselves to please us! Remember, it's supposed to be "Government by the people." :coffeecom

SciFiJim
01-13-2010, 02:06 AM
50 TDC is a new acronym for me. What does TDC mean?

RollerCam
01-13-2010, 02:27 AM
50 TDC is a new acronym for me. What does TDC mean?


It's actually DTC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.510_DTC_EUROP

sheepdog
01-13-2010, 02:54 AM
GOOD! One down, many to go.

Why is it that southerners and Texans, when we get relocated to places like CA, NJ, MA, IL or wherever, move there and DON'T try to change laws and ways of doing things "the way we did it in Texas," but people from CA, NJ, MA, Il or wherever move down HERE and constantly rag us about "how we did it in Boston or San Fran?"

And, when's the last time anyone in Dallas or Atlanta or Birmingham stayed up all night celebrating in one bar after another because they were getting transferred to Boston or Los Angeles?

You're DAMNED right you can keep that screwed up state as far away from us as geographically possible.

Problem is, that ain't what's happening. States are getting Californicated right and left.

I feel for the good folks who are trying to hang on out there. I really do. They're fighting a losing battle.

:coffee:

For every bitter ass that couldnt hack it here theres a mountain of Okies, Cajuns, Arkies, and many others coming in waves cause we got a great state (well I consider it a nation in exile but thats another story).

You dont want to be here? Fine go wherever you want. Think me, Recluse, and the rest of us "rednecks" will do just fine without you.

Buckshot
01-13-2010, 03:14 AM
........... The next State bashing or personalizing issue that comes up will cause this thread to be closed and the post will be deleted. Sorry gents but none of us really need it.

.............Buckshot

muzzleblast
01-13-2010, 04:56 AM
I waived my Lee tester over this post and was disappointed to find that some of the replies peaked the BHHN (Brinell Hard-Heartness Number) scale.

Wayne Smith
01-13-2010, 08:39 AM
Thank you, Rick!

clintsfolly
01-13-2010, 08:50 AM
Thanks Buckshot Clint

JIMinPHX
01-13-2010, 09:11 AM
Wow, there are a lot of passionate responses here. My earlier post was rather short & off the cuff. I think that I'll elaborate my position a little more.

I do feel bad for the poor guy that got injured. He is going to have a very tough go of things from now on. I also feel bad for the other people in this world that are going to have to suffer for his stupidity. I am surprised that a range that allows .50bmg exists in California, but I am glad that it does. An incident like this has a pretty good chance of bringing more legislative (notice I didn't say legal) heat down on this range & any people that shoot there or elsewhere. Those that run the range & those that shoot are not going to be adversely affected as badly as they guy that blew his gun up, but they will be affected & there are a lot of them. In the grand scheme of things, more total damage has probably been done to the shooting public by this event than to the one badly injured individual.

The government doesn't seem interested in helping to actually prevent things like this from happening. They only seem interested in using events like this as leverage to increase the power of government & decrease the rights of the people. Since we can't look to the government for any actual help, we need to help ourselves. I've always been very willing to help out anybody at the range that seemed to need a hand or a bit of sound advice. I'm now going to be a bit more proactive about seeking out those people. I would ask that others please do the same.

That having been said, I think that the guy was a bone head. Anyone that uses a hammer to close a bolt needs a good talking to at the very least. Anyone that does something like that at a public range where others can be injured by their unsafe actions is a liability to society.

Recluse
01-13-2010, 11:15 AM
That having been said, I think that the guy was a bone head. Anyone that uses a hammer to close a bolt needs a good talking to at the very least. Anyone that does something like that at a public range where others can be injured by their unsafe actions is a liability to society.

Jim,

From everything I've read recently, the guy didn't use a hammer to close the bolt. According to a good number of .50 cal shooters, they sometimes use a hammer to open the bolt when fireforming their cases.

Additionally, many of them carry hammers in their range bags to hammer down target stakes way down range--since a .50 has somewhat more range than the average 30-30. And there typically aren't a lot of target holders that far down range, hence the need for a hammer to "hammer your own."

After all, that .50 can shoot from Phoenix all the way to El Paso, you know, according to the media. You're bound to run into some hardpan somewhere out there.

:coffee:

JSnover
01-13-2010, 02:19 PM
Although it turns out he didn't hammer the bolt closed, he should have had sense enough to stop when it required excessive force. I think one of the first things I learned about shooting (even if you only use factory loads) Is that each round should chamber easily; never force the action. Some increased effort might be common if you're fireforming or using fireformed cases but when you have to pound things together, even with your hands, it's time to fall back and regroup. Of course in this guy's case his hands won't won't work so well from now on, so maybe it's a moot point..

JIMinPHX
01-13-2010, 03:50 PM
Jim,

From everything I've read recently, the guy didn't use a hammer to close the bolt.

:coffee:

That is different from what I have read. If that turns out to be the case, then my opinion changes.

Regardless of that, after seeing the damage that was done, I have decided that I don't ever want to fool around with one of those things. There's just too much energy packed inside one of those shells & I don't want to mess with it. I never really wanted a .50BMG in the first place, but now I just want to stay away from them completely. The energy in a .30-06 scares me bad enough. That's heavy enough artillery for me to play with.

lathesmith
01-13-2010, 09:04 PM
Well, I do feel bad for the guy and all, and all the negative fallout that will accrue. But, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happened. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but...was there a cartridge explosion? If so, what caused this? A case-full of Bullseye? Bore obstruction? If the primer just lit off the round, I wouldn't think that this by itself would be enough to cause an explosion. I can see the bolt becoming a projectile, but...unless you were standing directly behind this thing I would think damage potential would be expressed in a different way. I know, a 50 BMG is huge compared to, well just about everything else we shoot, but still....inquiring minds want to know, at the very least to try and prevent repeat incidents.
lathesmith

SciFiJim
01-13-2010, 11:14 PM
Some increased effort might be common if you're fireforming or using fireformed cases
I just tried to look at the pictures again, but they have been removed. I had never heard of a .50DTC before and did a little reading. It seams that the brass has to be fireformed from .50BMG brass. That could be the difficulty he had in closing the bold. The blowup could have been caused by too high a pressure/improper fireforming. For those of you that have fireformed brass before, is it done at a higher than normal pressure than is use to shoot? This thread or the one on CalGuns said that it was the first round that blew up. That points to improper fireforming as well. Like lathesmith said "inquiring minds want to know".

pmeisel
01-14-2010, 12:01 AM
It is impossible for anyone interested in how guns work not to be curious exactly how an accident happens, regardless of the gore-and-morbidity factor. Unfortunately the heat-to-light ratio is pretty high right now.

Blacksmith
01-14-2010, 12:02 AM
It appears that the cartridge fired before the bolt was fully closed and locked. This is commonly refered to as an out of battery condition. This allows the high pressure gases to force the bolt and cartridge backwards and to let gas escape into the action. Since the cartridge case is no longer contained in the chamber it will often explode sending brass shrapnel and gun parts in all directions. Some of the common causes of out of battery discharges are broken or protruding firing pins, primers seated too high, or forcing bolts closed on cartridges that won't fully chamber.

At this point we don't know what the root cause in this case was and we should withold judgement untill all the facts are in. Here is a link to a statement by the young mans father reguarding what occoured and the condition of his son.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3627398

Blacksmith

cbrick
01-14-2010, 12:25 AM
Here's a photo of the bolt, notice the case head still inside the action that appears to have a mild firing pin strike on it. The rest of the case wasn't to be found (shrapnel?). Notice also the position of the case head in relation to the front of the bolt. I can't see any other possibility than the round was not chambered and the bolt was not closed and yet the primer appears to have been struck by the firing pin.

http://www.lasc.us/IMG_0051-9.jpg

I've always used lighter loads for fire forming wildcats not heavier. I doubt too high a pressure was the cause if the round was never chambered but even a lighter load in a 50BMG is a huge load.

The first round blowing up doesn't point to fireforming but it could point to improper initial case forming. I'm not familiar enough with this round to know how much (or little) case forming is required. I'm also not familiar with the bolt/firing pin set up in this firearm but a big question is how did the firing pin hit the primer when the bolt wasn't closed (hitting the firearm & dislodging it)? Did the light firing pin strike happen during the blow up? If so, what caused the ignition in the first place?

Lot's of questions and lot's of speculation so far. If and when I learn anything new from the range I'll post it.

Rick

Recluse
01-14-2010, 12:35 AM
Regardless of that, after seeing the damage that was done, I have decided that I don't ever want to fool around with one of those things. There's just too much energy packed inside one of those shells & I don't want to mess with it. I never really wanted a .50BMG in the first place, but now I just want to stay away from them completely. The energy in a .30-06 scares me bad enough. That's heavy enough artillery for me to play with.

Agree completely.

Someone over there said that the .50 cal uses more powder than a hand grenade.

That sealed it for me.

My respect factor for our sailors, soldiers and airmen who use it in the line of duty just went up about a thousand percent, too.

:coffee:

canyon-ghost
01-14-2010, 01:14 AM
This was a truly tragic accident. The fact that it cost someone use of their hands is not a light matter. I shall take this as a warning when closing rifle bolts on my own reloads that aren't nearly as powerful.
I really hope this man recovers somewhat, I know full recovery may not be possible. May God be with him.

Ron

lathesmith
01-14-2010, 10:47 AM
Blacksmith and cbrick, thanks for the info, that does help make more sense of the situation. I wasn't thinking of applying signficant force to a cartridge sticking partially out of the chamber, I was more thinking in terms of the final bolt turn-down of a conventional bolt action rifle. And cbrick's post shows that perhaps significant force may or may not have been applied, it seems to be an open question.
I believe that the above posts clearly demonstrate the need to proceed slowly and carefully, and not jump to hasty and possibly unwarranted conclusions. There are still some serious questions to be asked, and answered, before a definitive conclusion can be reached as to what actually happened and why.
lathesmith

JIMinPHX
01-14-2010, 12:22 PM
The position of the case head in that photo makes me wonder if either the cartridge or the bolt was out of alignment. Since the bolt bent out to the right, I would have expected the case head to have gone in the same direction if it had been captive inside the recess of the bolt. the fact that the case head ended up lodged on the left side of the bolt, in the back, makes me wonder.

cbrick
01-14-2010, 04:03 PM
Here is the bolt handle from the 50. No idea where they found it after the blow up other than it was no longer attached to the gun. Also, the photo doesn't show the threaded end so can't say it broke off but would anyone think that the blow up caused it to un-screw from the bolt?

http://www.lasc.us/Bolt-Handle-9.jpg

Rick

pjh421
01-15-2010, 04:51 PM
Without the benefit of having inspected the remains,ten bucks says the kid bought some surplus, fired military brass that swelled upon firing in a generously proportioned, military machine gun chamber. When he resized the casings the heads were not reduced sufficiently to fully enter his chamber. Maybe he just neck-sized them. Anyway, combine that with a high primer that could have escaped his attention and you have the equivalent of a pipe bomb. Pound (or tap, or shove...pick a verb) this into a chamber that's too tight for it and its a **** shoot as to what happens next. Even if it didn't ignite as he attempted to chamber it, it certainly could have if, say, he tried to tap it out with a cleaning rod and hammer when the extractor would not extract it. I feel real bad for the guy. It obviously hurt a lot and his expensive gun is quite damaged. His confidence in himself and his equipment is probably beyond repair for now. Had he the benefit of knowing one of us he might have developed an engineering work-around for preparing used brass to be shot in his rifle. I typically make dummy rounds that are used to "prove" the process before I waste components in making a batch of ammo that doesn't work (and I'm sure I'm not alone in doing so). Well I hope he makes a full recovery, learns from his mistakes and subsequently enjoys a long and distinguished shooting career.
Paul

lbaize3
01-16-2010, 06:27 PM
So sad that a few moments of thoughtlessness can have such a profound impact on a young person's life. I regret that he had no one there he could depend upon to advise him of the possible impact of his actions. I also hope he recovers and that this event is a lesson that he can pass along to other new shooters.