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IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-09-2010, 03:01 PM
Hi guys, just wondering if anyone on here is making steel targets? I have been toying around with the idea of making various styles of steel targets for various applications (ie, rimfire, handgun, cowboy, rifle). I would do custom targets, built to your specs. I have made a very rough prototype of a swinging target that has a flat steel plate 3/8 thick 6" wide and about 10" long...and slightly angled down to deflect the bullets into the ground. I am still perfecting this prototype. I would also be able to do stationary targets. I have 2 questions: 1.) Is anyone else doing this on here....because I don't want to step on anyones toes and 2.) Would anyone be interested in these targets? If so, what style, thickness, etc. I have not worked up any prices yet, as I am wanting to see the feedback I get on this thread. Thanks!

Johnch
01-09-2010, 04:33 PM
I used to make them , last was 8 years back
But I changed jobs and my supply of free steel went away

I used a steel called Rino (sp) that was very impact resistaint and I was getting scrap for next to nothing

I used 1/2 rod to go from the plate to the suport , as it would take more hits ( also work scrap )
My plate was angled at 15 degrees to deflect the bullets down ward
My suport had 2 large washers welded to it 5/8" apart
To keep the rod from the target witch had a hook on it , from moveing side to side and allowing the plate to get sideways at all

Good luck

I found when I made them , the bigest problem was shipping
If I was to sell targets again , I would try and make then so all the parts would break down
So they all could be shipped in a smaller box

John

Willbird
01-09-2010, 04:33 PM
I think you need to do some research on what kind of steel to use, there is a high brinell steel plate that would be better to use. You can research some of that if you do a google and read the advertising for companies that make steel targets now.

The problem is that when a bullet hit it dimples the target, then when another bullet hits that dimple it can splatter stuff back at the shooter.

Pretty much when you shoot steel you have to expect some stuff to come back at you sooner or later..............for liability reasons it might be better to just make and sell the burnouts, and let people find their own way to weld up and assemble the burnouts into functioning targets. LOTS of people have a welder, but far fewer can burn (or plasma cut) steel into complex shapes....

You can easily ship flat steel burnouts in the usps flat rate boxes.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-09-2010, 04:45 PM
Willbird, that is a good idea. I have been thinking about the liability issue too. Thanks for the input so far!

Jack Stanley
01-09-2010, 08:12 PM
Having the shape of the target you want in the right type of steel is a good idea . I have one of the popular "woodchuck" targets I bought years ago . The welds broke right away because of harmonics/vibration or some such . My friend bored a couple large holes near the top and I used haredened bolt to hold it to the chain now . It has taken thousands of hits but as long as I keep very high velocity/heavy weight away from it I think it will last for a long time to come .

I recently cut some angle iron to resemble three hundred yard head and shoulder military targets . I made them for my Niece and nephew to use their .22 rifle with at twenty five meters . Since it's soft steel I don't dare use cast in a thirty caliber on them , something that size but self standing and HARD would be great for gallery loads from the A3 and such . Small targets meant for reduced range shouldn't cost as much as the bigger ones to ship too .

Jack

theperfessor
01-09-2010, 08:33 PM
Years ago I was shooting in bowling pin shoots so I made ten bowling pin cutouts using 1/2" mild steel plate. Cut a bowling pin in half with a bandsaw and used to trace outline, which I burnt by hand with a oxyacetylene torch followed by grinding smooth with body grinder. They have a piece of angle iron welded vertically on back to strengthen neck and are welded to a 4" long piece of 4" channel section with the flanges down.

Even though the steel is unhardened as long as velocities are kept in the "Special" range and lead bullets are used there is very little pitting from .22s up through .45s. One shot with a full bore .357 magnum 170 gr lead slug left a significant crater. (Have to weld that up sometime.) Splash back not bad either but yes there always is some, lack of pitting reduces problem.

markinalpine
01-09-2010, 08:39 PM
Hi guys, just wondering if anyone on here is making steel targets? I have been toying around with the idea of making various styles of steel targets for various applications (ie, rimfire, handgun, cowboy, rifle). I would do custom targets, built to your specs. I have made a very rough prototype of a swinging target that has a flat steel plate 3/8 thick 6" wide and about 10" long...and slightly angled down to deflect the bullets into the ground. I am still perfecting this prototype. I would also be able to do stationary targets. I have 2 questions: 1.) Is anyone else doing this on here....because I don't want to step on anyones toes and 2.) Would anyone be interested in these targets? If so, what style, thickness, etc. I have not worked up any prices yet, as I am wanting to see the feedback I get on this thread. Thanks!

How about adding a chronograph shield to your mix?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=72049

Mark :coffeecom

XWrench3
01-09-2010, 08:41 PM
IF one could be made, that one person with a bad back could lift by himself, say 8" diameter or square. that would withstand full house 300 win mag and 45/70 jacketed bullets @ 100 yards, i would be interested. but if i have to shoot slower than molasses in january soft lead rounds, i wouldnt mess with it. i know, that IF it is possible, its a tall order. if i had my own range, i would go and buy a 1' x1' x 2" thick peice of stainless steel and mount it on an angle to deflect the bullets into the dirt. but i dont, and i dont think i could carry something like that around very easily.

markinalpine
01-09-2010, 08:50 PM
I don't know what the dimensions are on the typical chronograph, but the shield would only have to be a little wider. And if it was angled at a very low angle, say 15 degrees, it wouldn't have to be as robust as the one jbunny built, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67956&highlight=chrony, which is angled at 45 degrees.
Just reading and maybe thinking too hard. :coffeecom
Mark :mrgreen:

snuffy
01-09-2010, 11:01 PM
IYH, take a look at these over on snipershide;

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1365557&page=1

Spensive! It'll give ya some idea of what to charge anyway.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-09-2010, 11:17 PM
You guys think if I just burned them out that most people would figure out a way to hang them? I have been thinking that the liability of selling the completed target may be too great. Thanks for the feedback so far...and no a chronograph saver is in line too. I am thinking of making a simple "sled" that a conventional chronograph fits into and provides protection. Would you guys be interested in these too? Thanks!

I think a phone call to my buddy that works for Robinson steel is in line....he would know abou the different alloys.

Muddy Creek Sam
01-09-2010, 11:19 PM
A Texas star would be nice, if I could afford the shipping.

Sam :D

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-09-2010, 11:39 PM
Whew! Ok, got the scoop and it was kinda what I was expecting. The types of steel that can stand abuse of high powered rifles is super expensive...and thus not really feasible from a cost standpoint. So, he is going to get me some hot rolled steel in various thickness and I am going to do some ballistic testing on it with various calibers. I am leaning towards the 3/8" to 1/2" plates. I will have to see how they hold up at various yardages. I am thinking that with cast boolits it should hold up well. I guess we will just have to see...

cheese1566
01-09-2010, 11:53 PM
I would be interested in smaller targets for rimfire: like diamonds, hearts, clubs, squirrels- anything other than plain squares or circles. These could be small and light enough to ship in USPS flat rate boxes.


About 10 years ago I copied the design of a fullsize popper and a split popper target. I used plain steel from the local supply shop using 3/8" plate steel. Nothing special. At that time I was able to make four fullsize falling popper targets that had that were adjustable for power factor and how easy\hard to fall for about $50 a piece.

I also was able to dig through the local welding shop scrap pile. There too I found various 3/8" to 1/2" round and square sized plates varying from 3" to 6" in diameter. This shop specialized in making logging truck trailers and pups.

I was able to make a few spinner targets and a falling plate style that can be reset from the bench using an attached rope. My first welding project and engineered on the fly.

All of these targets hold up very well to rimfire and pistol loads. I have used FMJ loads from my 357 mag on spinners with no problem. The poppers are holding up too with rimfire thru 45 ACP FMJ loads. The only problem I had was testing one with a 12 Gauge slug which left a good sized dimple. And an idiot next to me who thought it would be funny to try a 7.62x39mm without asking--which went through like butter!

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-10-2010, 12:01 AM
Thanks for the input CHeese! I also need some help from you guys on the chrono-saver. I need you guys to measure your chronos and give me the dimensions I would really appreciate it! I need the length, width, height (of the base unit, not the poles and screens). Thanks!

cheese1566
01-10-2010, 12:07 AM
My older red folding F-1 Chrony.
LxWxH= 14 1/2" x 3 7/8" x 2 1/2"

high standard 40
01-10-2010, 12:08 AM
I've built and maintained all of the targets for our silhouette club since 1990. Did the same for my personal targets for 10 years prior to that. The main issue you would have with bullet rebound has been addressed by earlier posters here.
The harder steels help eliminate the problem but are as stated very expensive. That is not the only problem with using them. Care must be taken when working with these quenched and hardened plates. Cutting by usual means will soften the steel along the kerf. In addition all pieces must be pre-heated and welded with special consumables or the welds and surrounding metal will fail prematuely. A controlled cooling after the weld is also necessary. It is difficult to work with for the average hobbyist. All the issues with welding these steels can be overcome if you do enough research. Some steel suppliers will sell small pieces (called drops locally here) for a reduced rate.
Now, all that having been been said, I have made all of our targets from A36, common steel plate. We shoot only smallbore and field pistol with centerfire calibers up to 357 Mag with the closest targets at 25 yards. 1/4" plate will work for 22LR but has a high failure rate. We made the switch to 3/8" for the 25 yard targets. Centerfire gets 1/2" out to 50 yards and 3/8" for 75 and 100 yards. Velocity is the main enemy of A36 plate. Usually around 1800 fps will start to make significant craters. Hard cast bullets are more damaging than jacketed. I address all heavy craters by building up with welding and grinding back flat. It's a lot of work to maintain all our targets but I will not bring a cratered target to a match. We have never had a bounce back cause an issue in the 20 years we have been conducting monthly matches.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-10-2010, 12:17 AM
Wow! Thank you for sharing all of that information. I sure do appreciate it! And Cheese, thanks for the measurements!

Willbird
01-10-2010, 02:28 PM
It sounds like the steel armor plate is about 500 brinell.

If you can find SCRAP armor plate is often not as expensive as plain hot roll because it is not nearly as useful. At least it was cheaper around here as surplus than hot rolled.

trcuda
01-10-2010, 02:58 PM
We have a local company that pours stepping stones and other various stuff from concrete. They use a very hard steel as a bottom plate for the pours, around 30"x30"x3/8". For some reason they have to scrap it as soon as it starts to pit, guess the molds dont release very well when it does. Anyway it is free for the taking and makes great targets for cast and mild jacked loads. I have one set up as a swinger at 75 yds that some fool shot with what looks to be a 308. Mild craters but no penetration.

HTH,
Tim

waco
01-10-2010, 06:28 PM
high standard is right, A-36 steel has its limitations
ive use AR-400 steel from work to make targets with.
.308 full power jacketed loads just splatter off the plate at 100 yrds, not even denting the plate
the plate was .375 thick
this steel has a very high tensile strenght
AR-400 is more expensive than A-36

high standard 40
01-12-2010, 03:30 PM
For those wondering exactly what a bullet does when it impacts a steel plate, I have attached a link to an ultra slow motion video which does a very good job of bringing this into perspective. A lot depends on velocity and the hardness and smoothness of the plate's surface. In most cases the bullet compresses at such a rapid rate that enough heat is generated to cause the lead to actually go molten.
Very good video. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-12-2010, 04:51 PM
Thanks for the video High Standard!

218bee
01-12-2010, 05:22 PM
I would probably be interested in some for myself...but the Sportsmans Club I belong to is thinking about doing 22 Silhouette. Thoses would be fun but you'd need to get exact dimensions I guess to be competitive. Keep us posted.. I'm from the hellhole they call Illinois also but way up north of you (I think) about 45mi south of Rockford and 90mi west of the s@#%$$#@hole called Chicago. Good luck and keep us posted

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-12-2010, 05:34 PM
I have been doing a lot of thinking and the liability issue is the only thing holding me up. I may just cut all the targets to specifications, and let you guys worry about mounting them. I am also working on another project that I will be sharing here shortly.

theperfessor
01-12-2010, 08:01 PM
Of course one way to hang something without softening it from welding is to drill and tap holes in it.

I've tapped a lot of holes in different materials but never armor plate of any grade so I don't know how hard it would be on taps. Tapping A-36 and other mild or medium alloy steels is no problem with the right tap in the right size hole.

theperfessor
01-12-2010, 08:17 PM
By the way, let me just add that from a physics standpoint you will get more damage to a steel plate that is restrained and can't move at impact than if you have one that is free to swing, fall over, etc.

Small targets that are free to move can be made from thinner steel; conversely, a target plate you rate for a certain max load under free-to-move conditions will be under-thickness for a target mounted against a solid restraint (railroad tie, etc.). I know this is true at least of lead bullets fired at pistol velocities.

Don't forget that a lot of the effectiveness of any armor plate comes not just from its strength but also its sloped geometry, which can be applied to targets to redirect fragments in a direction other than right back at the shooter and reduce the damage to the plate surface.

thenaaks
01-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Hard cast bullets are more damaging than jacketed..

how and why? just curious, not doubting.

Willbird
01-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Possibly the OP could avoid even calling his steel burnouts "targets" :-).

I think if I was going to use bolts I would design around plain old grade 2 carriage bolts, and use nuts not tap the plate itself.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter
01-13-2010, 08:51 AM
I think the reason some hardcast boolits are stronger than Jacketed may be because the jacketed bullets may have a really soft lead core...while the hardcast is completely hard throughout the entire boolit. I could be wrong. [smilie=f: