poor accuracy + leading HELP

[TREERAT]

new 50th Ruger blackhawk .357, missouri bullet 158g action bb-swc, sized .3585, box says 18 bhn my measurement with lee tester is 14 bhn. I am trying to push these with 6.5g of unique and 5g red dot. my problem is NO accuracy + some leading only for 1 inch past the forcing cone the rest of the barrel is clean.
the bullets are a tight fit to the cylinder throats.

am I trying to push these too hard? or not hard enough?

[Faret]

Try a different powder. I had the same results in my 480 with unique switched powders and the problem disapeared!

[44man]

new 50th Ruger blackhawk .357, missouri bullet 158g action bb-swc, sized .3585, box says 18 bhn my measurement with lee tester is 14 bhn. I am trying to push these with 6.5g of unique and 5g red dot. my problem is NO accuracy + some leading only for 1 inch past the forcing cone the rest of the barrel is clean.
the bullets are a tight fit to the cylinder throats.

am I trying to push these too hard? or not hard enough?
I will buck everyone and say they are too soft. They are slammed to velocity too fast and are skidding the rifling. You are opening gas channels at the rifling. Then the BB is not helping either.
You are also deforming them at the forcing cone.
Then if they came lubed, it adds another problem if it is a poor, hard lube.
Try oven hardening them and letting them age a week to see how hard they get. Lube with a better lube too.
With fast powders I don't get accuracy until 25 BHN or more. You can try a slow powder to ease the initial slam on the boolit.

[stubshaft]

My .02 is that the cylinder chambers are undersize AND there is a restriction where the barrel is screwed into the frame. Not uncommon in Rugers. To prove me wrong measure the cylinder exits and forcing cone. Then push a bore size soft lead slug throught the barrel and you should notice it taking more force as you near the barrel frame junction.

[runfiverun]

just try a slower powder.
subshafts idea of a bbl constriction is a good one also.
some 2400 is wortha try.
the 2/6 most companies use for their alloy is a strange one for sure a but 15-16 bhn is bout right.
i usually melt them down add some more tin to them and use them as rifle boolits.
you could try the old tumble lube trick with lla it's worked before.

[Larry Gibson]

What lube?

Larry Gibson

[Bullshop Junior]

The lube is store bought bullets is not made for performance in guns, it is made to work in them big machines. When I get store bought lead bullets, I throw them in the remelt can. They just are not that good.

[Larry Gibson]

The lube is store bought bullets is not made for performance in guns, it is made to work in them big machines. When I get store bought lead bullets, I throw them in the remelt can. They just are not that good.

The lube be the problem, suggest a tumble in LLA be fore remelting them.

Larry Gibson

[Edubya]

If the lube is the problem, why is it leading only the first inch or so after the forcing cone?
Check your diameters of the cylinder throats, verify that you you have no restrictions in the forcing cone and if all else check out okay, lighten your charge or start over with harder boolits.
I hope that you keep us appraised of your results.
EW

[NuJudge]

I like gas check bullets in Ruger revolvers. Can I suggest you scrounge some 358156 bullets from one of the members here and see if your cylinder/forcing cone issues go away?

[ebg3]

A slower burning powder may do the trick, try that.

[Bret4207]

IMO the combination of store boughten boolits with a BB, commercial lube and probably undersize boolits in a barrel that may have a constriction or that may be jacketed fouled all bring you to this. Clean the gun, fit the boolit to the gun, start low and work up. Use as large a boolit as the chamber will accept. If it's a new gun it may need a break in period to "smooth" things out.

[44man]

Speed green, Felix or one of Lar's lubes. :drinks:
I get leading with LLA.
I had to clean my .44 SBH yesterday because Whitworth has jacketed factory loads to test. The gun was FILTHY [smilie=1:having been shot all year. I was black when done. Had to use a brass brush and M-Pro 7 to remove all the carbon.
There was not a single speck of lead in the gun---NOTHING, not even a glisten on the first patch and I shot all kinds of different cast boolits through it from 245 to 330 gr and from 800 fps to 1350 fps.
Yep, surprised me too. I expected a sliver or two.
A few guys are right that you need to check your guns dimensions too, I kind of forgot that.
Store bought boolits are always a problem, you need to join us and make your own. :Fire:

[Bass Ackward]

am I trying to push these too hard? or not hard enough?



If you choose not to take any of the options that the other guys recommended to you, then you have asked the right question.

At that BHN, with a BB bullet of 158 grains, I use use a light coat of LLA and 6.8 to 7.2 grains of Unique. Short term accuracy is better with 7.2, but long term accuracy with the 6.8. So I just load according to how I am going to shoot.

[Larry Gibson]

If the lube is the problem, why is it leading only the first inch or so after the forcing cone?
EW

That's where commercial hard cast bullets ith the hard wax lubes most always lead. The reason is the lube isn't working in that portion of the barrel. I have for many years washed the hard wax lube off commercial bullets or ordered them unlubed. I then would lube them with Javelina in my 450. I never got leading with any of them doing that even with truely magnum loads. The quick fix for most of them that will be shot with light to medium loads is a coting of LLA. This allows the bullets to have lube in that critical first part of the barrel. It works most of the time but not all of the time. Treerat's .357 loads are medium loads which is why I recommended trying the LLA treatment with those specific commercial cast as they are what they are.

Larry Gibson

[243winxb]

In the 357 mag. load 13.0gr of Alliant 2400 with the 158g bb-swc

[TREERAT]

PROBLEM SOLVED:
I tryed reducing unique and leading got worse, so I started increasing till book max, still leads but not terrable, much better now. same results with red dot.

so I burned up about 25 rnds I had loaded light and had the barrel so leaded you could not see rifeling for a 1/2' were the barrel threads to the frame.

so I was assuming barrel constriction at threads and or tight throats,

THEN I FOUND THE LOAD FOR THIS GUN!
I had a little lil'gun left from loading .22 hornet, so I went to hodgdon sight and found for a 158g jacket that it listed 16g start, so I figured with cast I would try 15g. well it works perfect roars like a 357, rolls hard in your hand, fast and flat shooting. and in 12 rnds it cleaned every bit of the leading out of barrel. I think its amazeing to have a bare bevel base screaming this fast and leaving no lead at all!

[softpoint]

I've tried those "store bought " boolits a number of times with unique, bullseye in .44 magnum and they would do the same thing, nearly stop up the barrel with lead. I'd go to 20-21 gr. 2400, ALL the leading would go away.

[303Guy]

Lil'Gun is amazing stuff. I'm not sure its potential has been fully explored yet. I can use it in my 303 Brit too!

[machinisttx]

I was not impressed by Lil' Gun when I tried working some loads up with it a while back. The lowest ES I got was about 40 fps, the worst was 80 or 100, with most near the higher figure.

[MtGun44]

The very first thing that need to be done is to measure the throats in the
cylinder. If they are undersized (which my .45 BH was, severely) this would
size down the boolits and that alone could be causing all you problems.

Bill