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SPRINGFIELDM141972
01-08-2010, 03:15 PM
That test report was very well laid out and nicely done. Thank you for posting your results.

Kind Regards,
Everett

bradh
01-08-2010, 03:27 PM
Thank You Larry...very well done! Nice presentation...

scrapcan
01-08-2010, 04:11 PM
+3, thank you for taking the time to do the testing and to report your results.

SethD
01-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Good post. It is interesting how often I have heard the 22gr 2400 load criticized as being an overload despite it's long and proven track record. Killed my very first deer with that load too. I guess your testing shows it is a perfectly safe load to work up to even today if your getting no pressure signs. Thanks for the effort.

johnlaw484
01-08-2010, 04:20 PM
I'd say A+ with extra credit.

454PB
01-08-2010, 04:57 PM
Larry, thank you not only for your efforts, but also for sharing the results with us.

I'm saving this to my library of worthwhile information.

Echo
01-08-2010, 06:11 PM
+1 for the above. You get a big

WAY TO GO!

ddixie884
01-08-2010, 06:26 PM
Thank you, that is some real info!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dubber123
01-08-2010, 06:31 PM
Excellent write up! I was quite surprised actually at the low pressures generated by the .44 mag cast loads. Makes me feel better about shooting them in quantity. Thank you.

targetshootr
01-08-2010, 06:32 PM
Awesome. Submit it to a magazine and maybe get reimbursed for your time and effort.

2muchstuf
01-08-2010, 07:04 PM
Thanks Larry for a most excellent report,
It has inspired me to get my unopened "old" can of 2400 ( lot T F 495 )off the shelf.
I too will do some checking this out, although I only will have a crono to work with.
Should still tell me what I want to know.
2

jt1
01-08-2010, 07:49 PM
Larry, thanks for a well planned, well performed, and well documented test.

Very nicely done.

John

MtGun44
01-08-2010, 08:10 PM
Thanks Larry.

I cannot detect any difference in my .44 mag loads by chronographing, and have been of
the opinion (based on the chrono data) that there was no difference. Your testing with
actual pressure data is more conclusive, and in agreement.

Well done, sir.

Bill

awaveritt
01-08-2010, 09:18 PM
As a reloader who has just purchased my first pound of A2400, I've been very curious about this debate. Thank you for providing some relevant empirical data on which to proceed.

My old Speer #10 data for 2400 lists loads that are 6-7% higher than the 2400 loads in my Lyman handgun manual, 3rd Ed. This helps explain it. Thanks again.

geargnasher
01-08-2010, 09:43 PM
Larry, thank you thank you thank you, I've wondered about that for years!!!!!

Your test data puts that age-old question to rest for me. I know well about lot-to-lot deviation and, as you said, those two test samples were more than close enough to be from two different lots of even the same brand.

Well written and presented, you have enrichened our knowledge base greatly once again.

Gear

runfiverun
01-08-2010, 09:58 PM
been awaiting this report larry..
now y'all see why i was so upset when he said he was thinkin of leaving a while back.

Wayne Smith
01-08-2010, 10:04 PM
Ditto's to the above, Larry! Very well done and well reported. Thank you.

One question did occur to me and I don't know the answer. Is the pressure measure sensitive to or insensitive to the varying temps of the barrel? I know these measurements are usually taken indoors in constant temps in pressure barrels. You are shooting at low temps with the barrel warming up over the course of shooting, I assume.

No, I don't expect you to explain the why's of your answer, I'll accept a simple answer.

Larry Gibson
01-08-2010, 10:20 PM
Ditto's to the above, Larry! Very well done and well reported. Thank you.

One question did occur to me and I don't know the answer. Is the pressure measure sensitive to or insensitive to the varying temps of the barrel? I know these measurements are usually taken indoors in constant temps in pressure barrels. You are shooting at low temps with the barrel warming up over the course of shooting, I assume.

No, I don't expect you to explain the why's of your answer, I'll accept a simple answer.

It is probable that there is some effect, whether it is measureable is another question. There was no indication of the psi's started out low with the cold barrel and then increasing as the barrel warmed up. In a couple instances the highest psi measured were the first few shots. The variation of the ES of psi was the same as recorded on warmer days.

Larry Gibson

Kirk Miller
01-08-2010, 10:47 PM
Larry: I genuinely appreciate your time and effort, and especially your willingness to share your findings.
Kirk

fecmech
01-08-2010, 11:19 PM
Thanks Larry for doing the work. A few years ago I still had some Hercules 2400 in the square metal can even. I chrono'd it against the new stuff from Alliant in the .357 and did not see any big difference between the 2. To me it doesn't even make sense for a powder company to make a popular powder like 2400 faster. There is old data out there and people use it, so why ask for trouble? If anything as a powder manufacture I would err by making it slightly slower not faster. Again, thank you for taking the time to test and post your results.

PS. A couple weeks ago a friend gave me a partial 1 lb. container of Hercules 2400, container looks like it's from the 70's!

AZ-Stew
01-08-2010, 11:44 PM
A very well planned an executed report. Thanks, Larry.

Regards,

Stew

MT Gianni
01-09-2010, 01:43 AM
Great Report Larry. Could I have your permission to move it to the Stickys?

Bass Ackward
01-09-2010, 08:25 AM
Great write up.

What I found the most interesting was the magnum primer section.

Shuz
01-09-2010, 10:14 AM
Great job,Larry! This needs to be a "stickey"!
Ray

Larry Gibson
01-09-2010, 12:24 PM
Great Report Larry. Could I have your permission to move it to the Stickys?

Yes.

Larry Gibson

felix
01-09-2010, 12:38 PM
Impressive, Larry! Job very well thought out and done well. ... felix

Uncle R.
01-09-2010, 12:43 PM
Very impressive!
Thank you for your reasearch, and for posting the results here in such a clear manner.
Kudos!
Uncle R.

Char-Gar
01-09-2010, 12:50 PM
Thanks Larry for you good work. It reinforces the fact that any differences between the old and new 2400 are well within the limits of lot to lot variation. That is pretty well where all of this has shaken down to be after the initial nonsense about the new version being significantly hotter than the old. Glad to see your proof in print.

theperfessor
01-09-2010, 12:57 PM
Very, very nicely done. One FACT is worth a thousand opinions. Thanks for sharing!

MtGun44
01-09-2010, 01:28 PM
Gentlemen,

My theory on the old manuals having hotter loads is that in the old days (which was NOT
that very many years ago!) many companies did not have access to actual pressure
measurement technology and relied on case head expansion and other indirect and only
moderately accurate (at best) methods to judge pressures.

Once actual pressure measurement equipment has become widespread, many of the
old loads were found to be a bit too hot, and the newer manuals reduced accordingly.
Also, there were no SAAMI specs many years ago and everyone was a bit more free to
set their own standards.

I expect that there is no real differences in most of the powders, but we do have some
better and safer data.

Isn't wonderful and a bit amazing that advanced reloaders can have their own pressure
measurement equipment nowdays!

And one more "THANKS" to Larry for the testing work. A chrono is a pretty good tool, but it
is still indirect - does not actually measure pressure, only the results of the pressure - time
curve, not the same thing, altho related.

Bill

Larry Gibson
01-09-2010, 01:34 PM
All; FYI

In researching previous tests I added this to the report this morning: "Added: With regards to the seemingly low psi; this test was conducted at 39 -43 F. A check of previous test with this same bullets and same lot of 22 gr of Alliant conducted when the temperature was in the high 70s revealed an increase of 5,000 psi over what was obtained in this test. Obviously the ambiant temperature is a variable that must be considered."

Thank you for the remarks. It is always my pleasure to share information with all of you. That's what this forum is all about, the sharing of information.

Larry Gibson