WC-852 lot info wanted

[Shuz]

I have a jug of WC852 lot number A-230SL-7254. Does anyone know if this lot is considered "more like" H-380 or "more like" H-4831. I'd like to use this powder with 150 to 165g cast boolits in a .300 Sav, bolt 722 Rem. Any suggestions?--Shuz

[felix]

Shuz, that's an easy one! Assume H380-H414 until case expansion shows otherwise. Start with 38 grains. ... felix

[C1PNR]

Shuz, that's an easy one! Assume H380-H414 until case expansion shows otherwise. Start with 38 grains. ... felix
My lot of WC 852 is 47287. I see some limited data on Castpics, but wonder if the H-380 data is appropriate for this lot.

[felix]

Bill, who knows without some trials. I guess it could act as fast as 4064 in a smaller than 30 bore size. Don't know, but I would venture to say it won't be faster than H335/BLC2 under any circumstance. ... felix

[Marlin Junky]

C1PNR,

Did you recently buy your 852 from Bartlett? If this lot actually burns like H380-H414, (1) I need some; and, (2) Bartlett should remove his remark, "A ball powder which can be loaded using IMR4831 or Hodgdon H450 data".

MJ

[swheeler]

C1PNR; this is what I show for WC852 from 1997/lot47287
30/06-168gr bullet-WLR pr
WC852(lot baj 47-287)
55.0 gr=2551 fps
57.0 gr=2560 fps
Same combo canisterH450
55.0gr=2562fps
57.0=2576 fps

[Marlin Junky]

What I'm getting from this thread and Bartlett's website is that he (Bartlett) currently has the same lot of 852 that he did 9 years ago AND it is new!

All that aside, it sounds like 852 lot#47287 may be a great powder for heavy boolits (e.g. 311284) in the .30US.

MJ

[waksupi]

What I'm getting from this thread and Bartlett's website is that he (Bartlett) currently has the same lot of 852 that he did 9 years ago AND it is new!

All that aside, it sounds like 852 lot#47287 may be a great powder for heavy boolits (e.g. 311284) in the .30US.

MJ

MJ, that would mean, it is not a pull down powder.

[C1PNR]

C1PNR,

Did you recently buy your 852 from Bartlett? If this lot actually burns like H380-H414, (1) I need some; and, (2) Bartlett should remove his remark, "A ball powder which can be loaded using IMR4831 or Hodgdon H450 data".

MJ
Yes, it was from Bartlett. And very recently.

[C1PNR]

C1PNR; this is what I show for WC852 from 1997/lot47287
30/06-168gr bullet-WLR pr
WC852(lot baj 47-287)
55.0 gr=2551 fps
57.0 gr=2560 fps
Same combo canisterH450
55.0gr=2562fps
57.0=2576 fps
Thanks for the data. Very interesting results. I've included them in my "Loads to Try" worksheet.

[Marlin Junky]

Interesting... has anyone tried the Bartlett "BACK-IN-STOCK" new/warehoused for a decade plus, lot#47287 (WC-852slooow) in the 30WCF with circa 200 grain boolits?

MJ

[Trailblazer]

MJ, I tried it with the 200 grain Saeco 301(RG-4). Shot good IIRC. It burned fairly clean. I will have to look up load and velocity. The slow 852 fouled heavily with the Saeco 165 grain bullet. Also dimpled the cases with unburned powder.

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks Trailblazer...

I'll be looking forward to your velocity report with SAECO #301 and WC-852. I've got lots of powders on hand that work well with the lighter boolits (RCBS 30-180FN and lighter) but need to stock up on powder suitable for .30 cal boolits up to and including Ly 311284. One surplus powder I've found that works great for 180 to 190 grain .30 cal boolits is WC-852f but I'm afraid that one has gone the way of the Dodo. My favorite canistered powders for extracting max. performance out of the lil' .30WCF are H380/414/W760.

MJ

[swheeler]

MJ; Look at Pat's Reloading- Special Ball- non wavered 852- I used to buy it as BB Ball- it's H380

[Trailblazer]

MJ, memory failed me. I have lot#47288 and it is slooow. Don't know how it compares to #47287. FWIW I loaded 38 grains with the Saeco 301 and got 1927 FPS. I don't have any notes on grouping which means it wasn't that good and I didn't bother measuring it. It seems like I tried it once and it grouped fairly well and then tried it again when I chronoed it and it grouped poorly. The barrel was heavily fouled when I chronoed it because I did it after a match so maybe thats why it shot poorly that time. I picked up 3 lbs. of 760 for cheap and have just been using that. Probably ought to try the 852 again with a cleaner barrel.

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks for trying just the same, Trailblazer.

swheeler,

I purchased a jug of "Special Ball" and "Special Ball-5" from Pat both within the last couple years and like them both. The former is about a grain or two faster than canistered H380 in my 30-30 with RCBS 30-180FN and the latter is a little closer to H380. I have been looking for something in a spherical powder that burns more like 4350 and that's why I'm considering a jug of the current 852 from Bartlett. I've got so much powder now though that I want to make sure what I order from now on is as close to what I need as possible. If I already had that 30-40 I've been meaning to buy, it wouldn't matter but right now my "high velocity" rifle is a 30WCF. Oh sure, I own an '06 but, I just don't enjoy shooting that big ol' clumsy scoped M70 that much anymore.

Yeah, yeah, if I'm gonna be that picky I should probably order a jug of H414 or W760 but there's a certain satisfaction associated to doing this shooting thing as cheaply as possible... even if I do own 32 pounds of powder that don't get used much at all :-)

Has anyone tried Ram Shot Hunter in the 30-30 with heavy boolits?

MJ

[felix]

I think Corky got some of that as a Data ## and he gave me a pound or so. We both tried it, and it is at least as slow as 4350 as determined by using normal boolits for the bore. Maybe it will work in the 30-30 with a 200 grainer plus, but I would not place money on it. Just too slow. ... felix

[Marlin Junky]

Felix,

What does "normal boolits for the bore" mean in your opinion? Does it mean 150 to 170 grain GC's? I'd appreciate it if you could check your records and report back. There's a world of difference when going from 150 to 170 grain boolits in the 30-30 to something like RCBS 30-180FN weighing 194 to 195 grains checked. In my experience, H380/Fed 210 is the power of choice for the 190+ grain boolits and H414/760 produces great results with the 215 primer behind this .30 cal middle weight. Are you speaking from experience with 24 to 26" barreled 30-30's? I'm looking for a powder that'll work well for SAECO 301 in the long barreled 30-30's and up to Lyman 311284 in the .30 Army. When I find it, I think I may want to buy a life-time supply.

MJ

[felix]

No help here, MJ, because I don't shoot the heavies in any bore size. I stick with the light to mid-weights for the most part. Yes, 200-220 is heavy for the 30's. I don't think there is enough capacity in the 30-30 to handle anything slower than H414 no matter what weight the boolit and still get a good burn. However, accuracy might surprise you with some of these slow ones, but what a waste unless the powder is dirt cheap. WW748 is an ideal powder for the 30-30 size case in 30 caliber, and we need to find that one in particular on the surplus market for you to buy a ton of it. However, it very well could be that the faster lots of 852 might be an intentional slower lot of 748 or 760 or whatever. Wild guess of what Olin would do instead of remelting the powder when some reasonable variation which cannot be modified cheaply into the required canister speed. ... felix

[Marlin Junky]

Felix,

748 is too fast for the heavy weights. 33 to 34 grains of H380 with the right primer will break 2100 fps from a 24" barrel with RCBS 30-180FN (195 grains checked) and deliver single digit SD's, 1.5 MOA or better accuracy AND long case life. 36.0 grains of H414 with a Fed 215 equals the velocity and does just about as well on target. Granted that extra 2 to 3 grains of H414 does really nothing for performance and I suppose one can say it's a waste of powder, but what happens when we place it behind something like SAECO 301 or something even heavier? I'll let you know when I get there. With that in mind I'll keep on the lookout for a 4350 to 4831-like milsurp spherical powder that burns a bit slower than H380, to hopefully drive somewhat heavier boolits to 2000 fps. The worst that can happen is I'll be forced :) to buy that 30-40 to burn it in. Or Heaven forbid! dust off the ol' M70.

MJ

[Trailblazer]

MJ,

I chronoed 32 grains of 760 with the Saeco 301 and WLR primer. Velocity was 1822 FPS from a 24" barrel and good accuracy with five shots at 1-3/4" at 100 yards(iron sights). I have some H380 that I will try too since you find it works. I am looking for an accurate load for the Saeco 165 grain bullet around 2000 FPS. Maybe H380?

[Marlin Junky]

Trailblazer,

I'm getting about the same feet per second per grain of powder using W760 with RCBS 30-180FN as you are with SAECO 301. The last time I tested 760 in the 30-30, I used a slightly compressed 37.0 grain charge behind 30-180FN (195 grains checked) and Fed 210M primers for the following stats:

# of rounds =10
high = 2133
low = 2102
range = 31
average = 2119
std dev = 9.2
percent dev = .43%

This string was shot in March '06 and the temp was in the 60's.

Last Autumn/Winter I clocked 35.0/760/Fed210 at 1994 (20 rounds) and 36.0/760/WLRM at 2073 (also 20 rounds).

How much do your checked SAECO 301's weigh? I wish there was someone out there who has tried Bartlett's recent acquisition of WC-852 under similar conditions.

I don't know about the 165 grain SAECO on top of H380. You'd have to try it but if I was going for 2000 fps from a 165 grain bullet, I'd step the burning rate up somewhat. It sounds like a job for one of the BLC2-like spherical powders or Re7 to me.

MJ

[Trailblazer]

MJ,

The Saeco 301 drops at 205 grains. I never weighed one with check and lube. Probably about 210 grains?

The 165 shot good with 4198 at about 1800 FPS. I am out of 4198 and tried BLC-2 and it didn't shoot well at all. I also have H322 and I am going to give that a try.

[Marlin Junky]

Trailblazer,

Do you have a BHN for your 205 grain SAECO 301?

If you're only shooting for 2000 fps while using H322, I suggest starting with 25 grains and a whole grain of Dacron on top. It's my feeling that H322 doesn't like air space and works better at higher pressures. Use a tight fitting boolit too.

MJ

[BD]

I still have some WC852 lot #47287. I have been using this in the 6.5x55 for years and it loads right in between IMR4831 and H4831 under 120 to 140 grain condoms. I have some pressure data for my lot with the 120 grain Nosler BTs, and it gave the same velocities grain for grain along side 4831 at a slightly higher pressure. I bought this at least seven years ago from Bartlett. At that time he had two lots, one of which was faster. BD

[Heini]

I have read everything on these two pages written about WC852 but I still need some help. Can I interchange 852 for IMP4831. More specifically, can I load 53 grs of 852 in 25.06 cartridge with a 117 gr, Hornady BT.

[swheeler]

Heini; You will need to work up from a start load, just like you did with IMR 4831. I don't know what lot of WC852 you have(burn speeds can be very far apart H380 to 4831) but if you have the SLOW lot(4831 speed) 53 grs still might be a little hot. Lot BAJ 47287 was just about a perfect match for speed to canister H450. Hodgdons Manual # 26 shows 25/06-117 gr bullet-H450 START 48.0@2694 Max 52.0 @ 2981 fps. If you don't know what lot speed you have, START LOw assuming H380, around 42 grs. If you do have H380 speed powder it probably won't give you the velocity you want with the 117 gr bullet(powder too fast for cartridge/ bullet) may be better with lighter bullets. Be careful, first sign of sticky extraction stop- you're too hot.
Scot

[Heini]

Thanks for the help, I had loaded 11 rounds and planned on trying them next week in West Virginia while deer hunting. After reading your post, I think that I will pull them. The rifle that I shoot these rounds in, is a Mauser that I put together 20 years ago. I have had great success with shooting deer at 500 yds with this rifle. It has always seemed that the more 4831 I could get in the case the tighter the group.