SpringField 1903 (long)

[dk17hmr]

I just got it this weekend. My parents and I went garage saling, something that happens a lot around here in the summer. But we went to one and the guy had this little beauty along with the bayonet, at a price I would be stupid to walk away from, I was talkin to my dad about it playing the college kid card you know dont have any money blah blah blah. He orginally had $200 on it and I was going to take it anyways so I says "take $175 for it today and you dont have to take it back in the house tonight" he agreed asked if he would take a check and after tellin him who we were and where my parents work ect he agreed to that also had my mother cut a check and away I went a happy camper.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCF0003.jpg
On the way home I was talkin it over with my dad (we both are rifle nuts) and we figured I could get $50 easy on ebay for the bayonet because lets face it I dont need a bayonet to enjoy this rifle, well I got to looking at them on ebay and I'll be damned it they arent going for $200 or better. I am still debating weather to sell it or not. If I could get $200 for it that would pay for the rifle and a 30 caliber mold. I dont know yet.

Well my dad and I both wanted to try out our new rifles the day after, he just got a Savage 23 in 22 hornet to finish off the collection of Savage 23's he has. We made our way out to our range in the back yard and set the bench at 40 yards just to see if we could get paper. I only had a box of Remington 150 grain factory ammo that I wanted to shoot through it, only other 30-06 ammo we have around here is for dads Remington 700 there not really hot handloads but I wouldnt want to shoot them through this right off the bat and screw somethign up. Anyways first 2 shots were very top of the paper but pretty close to center. We adjusted the sight so they were dead nuts center but still 8 inches high. Close enough for me for right now. Me on the bench with my '06
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCF0008.jpg

Dad wanted a run at it so being a good son I let him. The p-dog is a 3/8" thick metal shop project and he blew the center out of it with one shot from the '06.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/DSCF0011.jpg

Being a drafting/cadd/architect student I know what goes into designing parts and I can't believe that this fine firearm was designed with a pencil and paper over a 100 years ago it is as stout as a bulldog and undoubtable will be a favored rifle in my arsenal!!!

Now what .30 caliber mold do I get?

Sorry I didnt see that there was just a Military rifle Section of this Forum....Move if needed.DK

[Frank46]

If I were you I would not sell the bayonet and keep it with the rifle. Chances are the two have been together for some time and if in the event you did sell the rifle you'd get way more money for the both together. Frank

[waksupi]

Good find, great price! Congratulations! And keep the bayonet!

[Antietamgw]

Congradulations on a great buy! Around here (Maryland) you won't find a straight '03 for $500 anymore. I believe I'd keep them together. You can get a good mold reasonable anywhere, anytime (311291 shoots great in my 4 groove '03-A4) . They ain't making anymore orig. bayo's. Enjoy!

[straightshooter1]

Great buy, and it looks like the gun is an original WW1 era model. It appears the bolt is straight down, not slightly swept back, two stock bolts, serial number in the high 800,000s maybe. Not sure from pictures, could be later, but the bayonets often sell for way over $200 with that scabbard. Condition is, of course, the key.

I think you got a GREAT deal and I'd keep the bayonet, at least for a while.

Bob

[corvette8n]

Keep the bayonet, later on you will be sorry if you sell it.
I am a C&R collector and I have a bayonet for all my rifles. I
waited five years on the CMP list to get an '03 Springfield.
You made a great find. Enjoy.

[Char-Gar]

You have a wonderfull rifle.. If you ever sell the rifle and/or bayonet you will live to regret it...trust me on this one!!!!

Almost any good mold will do... 311291 is a good place to start. Make certain you clean all of the old metal fouling out of the barrel before you start shooting case or you are bound for disappointment.

Shoot cast through the rifle and it good care and you can pass it on to your grandson someday.

[dk17hmr]

The Serial Number is actually in the low 380,000's is there any way I can find out if it was used in a War, on a website or something? Also can anyone explain this sight to me how is it calibrated and to get the sight adjusted lower so I can hit Point of Aim instead of having to hold under? Thanks guys

DK

[straightshooter1]

Low 300,000s you say? It is a Springfield receiver, not a Rock Island, right? If so, it is a "low number" which means, according to some, it is not safe to shoot at all, or only safe with nothing more than factory loads, or only safe with light (i.e. cast) loads, or, some say, shoot most anything you want. "Brittle receivers" is what the problem allegedly is. I am certain these folks on this site will give you the best advice on shooting it. I always used lighter loads in them, but I have heard horror stories that may or may not be true. Gun is still worth lots more than you paid for it.

There's a web site with lots of info about these low numbered guns. If I can find it....

I thought it was later because it looks like two stock bolts and "low" wood on the handguard. What is the barrel information just below the front sight (i.e. SA 15)? Should have who made it and the year. Are there some initials around the left side of the wrist area?

I don't recall how far the battle sight is set for zero, something like 547 yards. All you need to do is raise the ladder, set the slide at about 200 and you should be on paper at 100 with the windage in the center using factory ammo. I would start at 25 to 50 yards since at that distance, it is real easy to find paper and adjust the slider up or down slightly using the small peep or aperture as the rear sight. The windage is easy, too, just remember SMALL movements of both the slide and windage.

[StarMetal]

http://www.armscollectors.com/srs.htm

Joe

[Char-Gar]

The low number 03s are not necessarily "less strong"..it is what happens to them when they go into failure mode that makes the difference.

Thge low number 03 are made of the same single heat treated steel as the Krags. This stuff tend to be brittle. The difference in design allows the 03s to trap and retain gas if and when a case doesn't do it's thing, which does happen.

Krags will break the locking lug or bend a little. The low number 03s will come apart/fragment into many pieces. I have some photos of a good 03 that happend to.

Many folks with these rifles shoot them with low pressure cast bullet loads. However, you have to be careful you don't double charge a case. This is what happened to the subject of my photo collection. The notion being, if a gas leak occures, the pressure won't be enough to send the receiver into failure mode.

The latter double heat treated and nickle steel 03 receiver will lock up, maybe swell up, but won't fragment in failure mode.

[dk17hmr]

Well its in the low 380,000 so its in the upper end of 300k. The date below the sight on the barrel has "SA" the flaming bomb then 9-09. And on the stock it is very light but its has in a box with the letters "RIA" under that "FK" I dont know what any of that mean except that it was made in September 1909.

I read about that heat treating problem Springfield had with the early rifles and Ineed tollok into it more so I can find a Serial Number when the problem was fixed. I will be shooting light load in it anyways. We have loads of brass for '06 and I can make some nice cast or surplus bullets up cheap just so I can shoot it.

DK

[StarMetal]

RIA is Rock Island Arsenal.. What does it say on the front ring of the receiver (breech)? Springfield, Remington, and RIA made 1903 rifles. It will tell you on the front receiver ring who made the rifle. Alot of these rifles were rearsenaled with various parts, for example I had a 1903 Remington that had a brand new Springfield barrel on it. It had the scant pistol grip stock. Then my next one was a 1903 Remington and it had the original Remington barrel and this one had the pistol grip stock.

Joe

P.S. The cut off serial number for Rock Island Arsenal is 286,506 , so you're safe.

[Char-Gar]

Your barrel is a Springfield Arsenal from September 1909. The Springfield receiver serial number range in the 380Ks would be right for that 1909 date.

However you have a Rock Island Arsenal stock, but it is not uncommon to find these rifles with mixed parts.

It was not uncommon for the older barrels to be removed from low number guns and reused on the newer receivers. So the SA 9-09 date does not mean anything of itself.

Any Springfield Arsenal receiver below 800,000K is of the old brittle single heat teated steel. Joe/Starmetal is correct about the serial number cut off on the Rock Island receivers.

So who made the receiver? It is right there in plain view above the serial number on the receiver.

Even if it is a low numbered rifle, it has a collector's value several times of what you paid for the rifle.

[garandsrus]

DK,

Where are you at in Michigan?

Here is a site that has a lot of information about collecting the 03's: http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/03/03config.pl? (http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/03/03config.pl?)

Also, you can check the CMP web site, www.odcmp.com (http://www.odcmp.com) for more information.

It does look like you got a really nice rifle with an original barrel and receiver combination. The CMP offers high number 03's for sale for $450 without the bayonette. The "finger groove" stock and bayonette are bonuses. I believe the low numbered 03's were either $50 or $100 less expensive.

John

[dk17hmr]

It is a Springfield receiver.

Depends what time of week it is as to where I am in MI John. Start of the week I am in Owosso (college), end of the week I am in Standish area (screwin around/working).

DK

[garandsrus]

dk17hmr,

I don't know if I have ever been to Owosso, but the Standish area is very pretty. I go up to Glennie a couple times per year.

I am in SE MI.

John

[dk17hmr]

Yep Standish is alright its flat as a pancake and there isnt much to do unless you live in the country (which I do) but the fishing is good almost year round in my area, job market sucks but we try to keep the economy going as much as we can buying what we need local instead of traveling to the City. Summer time we get alot of people traveling through town there just isnt anything to keep em here.

What does the Flaming Bomb stand for?

DK

[Bob S]

What does the Flaming Bomb stand for?

DK

It's a cute little "logo" for the old U.S. Army Ordnance corps, sometimes known affectionately as "the flaming piss-pot". They also used crossed muzzle-loading cannons inside a geared wheel. The Ordnance Corps is no more, now there is the Army Armaments Command, or something like that.

I am reading your thread with great interest, as I started shooting high-power in 1965 as a poverty-striken undergraduate student with an 03A3, and Ideal (now Lyman) 311291 mould (and later a 311284), and an unlimited supply of used wheel-weights from the garage ("gas station") where I worked. I went on to get a Master classification with that rifle. Later in my Navy career, I was a shooter, coach and sometimes captain of the Navy Rifle Team ... all starting with a "Springfield" and one mould. You have all the "tools" at your disposal for a good start. Best of Luck!

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[dk17hmr]

Oddly enough Bob I might take a similar route as you. Get my degree in Architechture/Construction managment and then join a branch or Military. Considered the Marine Corp and US Navy. I have friends in California at the Marine Corps boot camp. I am leaning more towards the Navy because of the Seabees. Im not sure yet.

I havent found a range that shoots matchs, still looking!

DK

[bruce drake]

As an Ordnance Officer, [smilie=s: I can tell you that the Corps is alive and well in the Army. Most of the green suiters (Soldiers) are in the operational units but we still have a large number of Ordnance Soldiers and Department of the Army Civilians are still involved with ordnance design and training at our Depots.

The Army is progressing over to a Combined Logistics Corps in which the Transportation, Ordnance and Quartermasters will fall under one controlling branch which will be close to what the Navy and the Marines are like already.:drinks:

Bruce Drake
Captain, US Army Ordnance Corps

[Char-Gar]

Lots of us got started in serious rifle shooting with the 03/03A3. I got into serious competition shooting (small bore) in 1955 at age 13. Started with a Winchester 75 and moved up to a Winchester 52 Bull gun when I could handle the weight off hand. I did love the outdoor Dewar match. You learned to dop the wind when shooting the rimfire at 100 yards and 100 meters.

In 1959 I came by an 03. It was one of the old double heat treated Springfield receivers with a 1932 barrel and a scant stock. It didn't take me long to nail a long slide Lyman 48 sight on her. I used a slip on butt pad as the stock was too darn short when shooting prone.

A couple of years later the DCM was letting loose of 03A3 for less than $20.00 each including shipping.

I have never been without an 03 or 03A3 since those days. I just can't imagine life without one.

My current pet is a Remington 03A3 with a four groove barrel. It was unfired from an Odgen rebuilt when it came to my hands as a gift. When my eyes, and the wind will allow, this rifle has no problems keeping ten rounds in 1.75" at 100 yards. I can put five into 1.5 but not ten.

No other rifle feels as normal and natural in my hands as a Springfield. I comes from many years of hugging their stocks.

If I din't already have a good one, I would seel anything I owned to get one.

[garandsrus]

DK,

There are some matches in Cadillac, but that's about an 80 mile drive from you. You could check with the Michigan Rifle and Pistol Association to see what else is available. Their web site is www.michrpa.com

I was asking about where you are in MI because we have a High Power league at the local club I belong to and I would invite you to attend, but it is in Utica, so it would be a 2-3 hour drive.

John

[dk17hmr]

Awesome John, thanks for the info. Im trying to find something closer to Mid-Michigan to shoot in. My budget isnt as large as I wish it were and my 4x4 Ranger only gets 17-20 miles to the gallon.

Tomorrow the 1903, if the weather is nice, is going to back yard range to do some 200-300 yard shooting, after I get it on paper at 100 yards.

DK

[Four Fingers of Death]

Keep the Bayonet, the $200 will be gone before you know it and the Bayonet will be gone forever. I'd go back and politely ask the guy what the history of the rifle was. He may know and if so, this will increase your pleasure of ownership immeasurably.

Good luck, I have a No4, a 1936MAS, a 1917 Remington made Mosin nagant, 4xM17s, 1xP14 and some Israeli Mausers and an old 8mm, best be getting me a Springfied!

[db2]

DK,

I agree with garangsrus, jouster is the place to ask questions about your 1903. A lot of those guys are die hard collectors. As for it being a "low number" I would not worry about it as long as I was just shooting cast, or mid-loads, not the light mag factory loads. Anougther web sight to look at is: http://www.armscollectors.com/srs.htm

Left hand side is U.S. military Serial Numbers click on that and find 1903, then type in your serial number. Chances are you will not get a hit but it will show you the ten below and the ten above your number that they do have on file.

If you are looking for some books get on jouster in the 1903 fourms and look up Rick the Librarian and ask him which books to consider for learning more about your 1903, who knows you might have a correct piece. Or find out if the rifle was rebuilt, or imported from overseas.

If it was me I would KEEP the bayonet.

Yes, get back to the person you bought the gun from and try to get any history you can from him. I know you just want to shoot it and have fun, however later on in life when you have a little more time on your hands you might wonder just what the story was behind that old rifle. Putting it down on paper would also be a good idea. (This is the collector in me talkin, if you really want to see me get anal get the paper notarize :) ) 15 or 20 years ago I remember my dad and my uncle playing with M1 carbines. At that time you could not give them away. I wish I had all the ones they played with and tore up, cause now good ones are a grand apeice. Every year it seems like you can add 50 bucks to the price.

A warning, it just starts with one "old" rifle. After some time the bug hits, and one is no longer enough. Thats how it happened with me. Every now and then my wife catches me fondling these "old" rifles, and shakes her head in disbelief, and tells me I need to rethink my priorities, I do not dare tell her I already have.

Well I'm feeling a little needy now, I think I need to go and do some fondling. :)

DK enjoy your 1903.

db2

[db2]

Here is anouther web site to look at.
http://vishooter.home.att.net/

db2

[dk17hmr]

Shot my '06 today a little, put about 15 rounds through it. Got the sight figured out thanks for tellin me how it works guys. I had it on paper at 50 yards on the first shot actually about 2 inches high. I went back to 200 yards and shot at the buffalo I made my sophmore year of metal shop, its 3/8" about the size of the 400 yard rams they use in Silhouette shoots. I was layin prone and fired 4 shots at it and only heard one ting conferming a hit from 200 yards but it didnt fall, I wasnt happy. I walked to 100 yards layed back down and fired one shot it fell over. I went to go stand it back up and notice 5 fresh holes in it. I hit it every time just hit it a little to low to knock it over at 200 yards. That was with the rest of the box of Remington 150 grain soft points. In the late afternoon I made some light handloads with the remaining 8 bullets in one of the Nosler Ballistic tip boxes. I was able to hit a 8" steel gong off hand every shot at 100 yards with them and had a 2" group at 50 yards off the bench. Man this is a fun rifle just need a mold now so I can shoot cast.

Tomorrow on the bench is my custom 25-06 wtih 90 grain Seirra BTHP's over a healthy charge of Varget. Hopefully I get .5" or better with this load. I have been messing with the scope debating if I should try and trade it for a differenet one. Tomorrow will tell.

DK