.356 brass from .444

[Marlin Junky]

356 brass from 444 seems doable but how well does it work in terms of feeding through say a converted 336 that started out in .35 Remington? I suppose feeding in a re-barreled 444 should be pretty much flawless. Any help available here?

MJ

[AnthonyB]

MJ:
I use reformed 308 brass in my Marlin and Winchester. Have you tried that?
Tony

[NickSS]

The bolt face would be too small in diameter to work with a 444 sized head. You would need either a new bolt or open up the old one. There might also be some feeding issues. Starting out with a 444 would probably work better with fewer problems.

[Marlin Junky]

The bolt face would be too small in diameter to work with a 444 sized head.

Indeed, but opening up bolt faces shouldn't be a problem once I've set up a lathe. Wait a second... doesn't the .356 have the same basic rim diameter as the 30-30 and 444?


There might also be some feeding issues.

That's my main concern.


Starting out with a 444 would probably work better with fewer problems.

Hopefully, but rebarreling a 444 would be much more work and expense.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

MJ:
I use reformed 308 brass in my Marlin and Winchester. Have you tried that?
Tony

In rifles that were factory chambered for the .356? That's kinda scary 'cause it invites the use of hot loaded .358 ammo in a gun (Marlin 336) that wasn't designed to handle the pressure. I'm not saying it would happen to you, but I think I might understand why there are no new .356 lever guns being produced.

MJ

[AnthonyB]

Yep, both factory chambered in 356 Winchester. According to Speer 13, the pressure limit for both the 356 and 358 is 52,000 CUP, so 358 ammo with RN bullets should be safe in the Marlin and Winchester lever guns.
I use 356 load data in the reformed 308 brass and have had no trouble in either of my rifles.
Tony

[badgeredd]

The Lee manual lists the exact same load for a 180 grain bullet with H4198 and actually shows the end load in the 358 only one grain more than the 356 and a 200 grain bullet. Also H335 with a 250 grain bullet are identical for both cartridges. There does seem to be a slightly higher pressure for the 358 over the 356. Pretty much the same cartridge except the rim type and diameter.

Edd

[Marlin Junky]

It's hard for me to believe that the 336ER is a 52K CUP gun. Isn't 52K CUP roughly the equivalent to 57K PSI?

Are the new .35 XLRs 52K guns?

MJ

[357maximum]

MJ

There are alot of fellas out there running at or very near that pressure in even old 336's. There are even guys running full factory 358 loads in modified 336's that should be called 356 rimless by my thinking, but they get away with it. I would not run full 358 press in a marlin...but alot of em do it and i have never heard of anyone eating a bolt yet. I still would not do it myself...but my pre-micro 336SC in 35 rem gets loaded slightly above book all the time...it was made in the 50's. I almost trust the 336's construction further than I do my Small ring mausers if something ever did go wrong.

[JIMinPHX]

I may have a box or two of new, unprimed, factory .356 brass kicking around in my old-time odds & ends box. How many pieces are you looking for?

[Marlin Junky]

I may have a box or two of new, unprimed, factory .356 brass kicking around in my old-time odds & ends box. How many pieces are you looking for?

Well, I was going to order 50 from Midway to be included in my powder order.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

MJ
... i have never heard of anyone eating a bolt yet. I still would not do it myself...but my pre-micro 336SC in 35 rem gets loaded slightly above book all the time...it was made in the 50's. I almost trust the 336's construction further than I do my Small ring mausers if something ever did go wrong.

Mike,

The only 336 actions I've ever heard of letting go were those housing overloaded 45-70 cartridges and they let go in the chamber area while the locking bolt held fast. That said, the 336 action is springy compared to a bolt action and I would think a steady diet of 50K loads would create headspace issues in no time.

Anybody know the mean SAAMI operating pressure for the .338 Marlin Express?

MJ

[JIMinPHX]

I'm on an out of state job site right now. I should be home by Saturday. I'll check to see if I still have them then. It's a 60/40 proposition if I still have them or not. If you're hot to get some brass quick, then order it. I'll let you know one way or the other when I get home.

[rugerman1]

356 UNPRIMED BRASS, $16.30/50 (http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=867&dir=278|282|285|379)

[JIMinPHX]

It turns out that I do have 2 full boxes of Winchester Western brand unprimed brass in 356 Winchester caliber. They are unused, but probably around 40 years old. Both boxes fit in a $4.95 small flat rate box from USPS. Please make me an offer if you would like them. I have a picture that I can send if you would like.

I have to admit though, that link that rugerman1 posted looks rather tempting, & that's brand new, current production brass.

Regards,
Jim