case mouth belling

[johnho]

I am just starting casting and reloading 30 caliber for my 1903A3. My powder die location for my 550B does not bell out the case mouth like it does on my 45 and 38 cases. How can I get a slight bell on the case at this location, or can't I? I do shave some lead when reloading without the bell.

[45nut]

I would call Dillon and ask if a powder die for the 32 H&R or S&W would work.Being straight wall pistol cartridges it should work. I generally just chamfer the case mouths and ease the boolit in but I would like to hear what they say.

[BruceB]

What I've done with my 550B for cartridges like the .308 Winchester and .30-06, is install a Lee "Universal Expander Die" (about $10?) in station 3, after the powder-measuring station. I set it to give a minimal flare on the casemouth, about enough to accept the boolit as deep as the top of the gascheck.

Doing this job at station 3 makes it slightly awkward to seat the bullet at station 4, as I have to reach THROUGH the press frame with my left hand to get to the case at #4 to place a bullet in the mouth. It doesn't take long to get accustomed to this routine, though.

Loading for my semi-auto M1A, I've found that it's NOT necessary to make a separate trip into another die for crimping or removal of the mouth flare, if the seating die is set as follows:

I set the seating stem quite far down in the die body, and the die body is rather shallowly installed in the press. I want the bullet to be almost at its finished seating depth BEFORE the case mouth enters the neck area of the die. This largely eliminates any scraping or other damage to our carefully-cast boolits.

This adjustment is obtained by first, setting the die body to just make contact with a flared casemouth at the end of the upstroke. Try a few sized-and-flared cases, adjusting the die downward until the flare is barely removed, and NO FURTHER. Lock the die in that position. Then, back the seating stem 'waaaayyy out, and start seating a boolit in a flared case, adjusting the stem gradually deeper until the desired seating depth is achieved.

As I mentioned earlier, ammo loaded in this fashion needs no crimping or other treatment to function in my M1A (or Garand). However, if the ammo was for some important purpose, I'd probably perform such a step just to be absolutely certain. As it is, the stuff works great, even in semi-auto rifles.

I strongly recommend using a case gauge to check all finished rounds for semi-autos, both rifle and handgun. Most rounds which fail the case-gauge check do so because of burrs on the rim, but once in a while one can find a round which really does have a problem. Better to find such problems in the shop than in the field! At ten or twelve bucks per caliber for gauges, this is very inexpensive insurance indeed.

[MGySgt]

Johnho - CALL Dillon and ask them.

All my powder dies will expand more then enough. You may have the wrong one.

Drew

[nighthunter]

BruceB's reply makes a lot of sense. I have an RCBS .308 expanding die that I could use in place of the Lee die. I've been trying to figure out this problem also so it is nice to see that I'm not the only one here that needs a little help once in awhile.
Nighthunter

[johnho]

I have already sent Dillion an email on this and will post their reply. I appreciate the responses.

John

[David R]

I chamfer the heck out of the inside of the case after trimming. No need to flare with a gas checked boolit. NO crimp required in a bolt gun.

David

[Ranch Dog]

I also use the Lee Universal Cast Bullet Expanding Die (http://www.bosesguns.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=lee90798&CartID=1). It does a great job and is easy to use.

http://www.bosesguns.com/photos/lee90798-2T.jpg

[BruceB]

Gents;

There's a big difference between Dillon's "powder funnels" for handgun loading and those for rifle loading.

In the handgun funnels there is indeed a flaring function built in, as the funnel slides inside the case to bell the mouth and deliver the charge.

In RIFLE-caliber "funnels", the funnel does NOT enter the case at all. Instead, there's a 90-degree shoulder which is contacted by the case-mouth to activate the powder measure. Therefore, there is no specific "correct" Dillon funnel for flaring the mouths of rifle cases for cast bullets. Whether or not a .30-.32 pistol funnel would work for .308/.30-06, I don't know, but it's certainly worth looking into.

For the minimal cost involved, maybe I'll order a few funnels, since I already need a couple more at this time (especially with my new .223 needing some serious production capacity).

[Larry Gibson]

If I'm doing the complete loading on the Dillon I use basically BruceB's procedure loading cast on my 550B except I use a Lyman Mdie at station 3. The M die makes a step inside the case mouth instead of a flair. I set it so the step is just about GC deep. That way I set the bullet into the neck just before rotation of the base plate. The bullet is held in place for seating at station 4. This alleviates having to reach through the press as Bruce does. Of course I clean, deprime and inspect on single stage (or stage #1 as a seperate operation). Then a NS die is used in station #1 for NS'ing and priming. I use this procedure with cartridges that do not require a crimp.

However, most often I will NS, deprime, inspect the case and clean the primer pocket prior to loading on the 550B. In this case I use the M die at station 1. The powder funnel has sufficient cleareance that it does not resize the neck. If it does simply order a .31 funnel for the 7.65 Argie, .303, .762x54R, etc. from Dillon. Then the case is flaired and primed at #1 with the M die, powder thrown at #2, bullet seated at #3 and crimped at #4.

Larry Gibson

[Swagerman]

Heck! Why strain yourself placing the bullet in station 4, just use station 3 after you bell the case mouth lower ram and set the bullet in brass top and rotate the shellholder star to station 4.

Jim

[Throckmorton]

I just orderd a .30 carbine powder funnel because I'd heard that it would bell a 30-30 case.Well,it did,but the rifle powder bridged something fierce in the funnel part.I'll have to look at opening the orifice to be able to use it.Actually it wasn't really a rifle powder,was Trail Boss...the 'cheerios' looking stuff.

[BruceB]

My only reason for NOT placing the bullet in the casemouth at station 3, is that with the minimal flare that I use, the bullet's not very secure.

Trying it yesterday on a ten-round sample run, the bullet fell off (out of?) the casemouth rather easily, unless the shellplate's rotation was very slow and careful. After this limited trial, I concluded that it was worth the minor inconvenience of reaching through the frame openng to station 4 with the bullet.

[Swagerman]

Bruce, I see your point. My experience with doing thhis has only been done with .44 and .45 caliber brass...which seems to work OK at station 3.

I can see where long narrow rifle boolits would present a whole new set of stationary alignment problems before reaching station 4 to be seated.

Kind of glad I don't load rifle anymore, it was always something like this that would cause me problems.

You're right, me wrong. :mrgreen:


Jim

[straightshooter1]

I just bought the Lee Universal case expanding die and was just getting ready to put the results on the board when I saw this thread.

!. The purchase of anything "Lee" was a big deal for me. I am from the era, twenty or so years ago, when Lee, at least to me, meant JUNK! I know their quality has improved and I suppose their warranty is better (IIRC you got a replacement for 1/2 of suggested retail on defective/broken items. Big deal since, at least in those days, no one paid suggested retail with Midway's FFL dealers' prices and half of MSRP was as much, or nearly as much as a new one from Midway). And, yes I know, those glory days at Midway, cheap prices for FFLs or free shipping for everyone are over.

2. Yeah, I have a "U" die for 40 S&W and a factory crimp die for that caliber, but nothing else with the "L word" on my bench. I can excuse that 'cause it's a 40 thing lots of shooters do.

3. But, by chance, I read a report on the Surplus Rifle forum concerning this die and, tired of my M dies not being exactly what I wanted, I bought one.

WOW! This is the cat's meow (that means it's great for those of you north of the Mason-Dixon Line). You can control the exact amount of flare and it is so easy even I can do it and I didn't crush a single case or over flare one so much it had to be dumped. In fact, I got it right on the first case with only a couple of adjustments. Again, WOW!

I use a 550 and I have used the carbine funnel to try flaring, but it just never worked quite right. The quickest way to reload for me if necksizing, it to necksize separately using one toolhead, then put the Lee (can't believe I am using that word in mixed company) in station one and flare and prime there. I have tried the other ways, but I get confused easily.

Again, the Lee tool is great, I may buy a couple more for cartridges I use a lot just so I don't have to reset this one. But, if I don't, this tool is truly easy to use and reset.

Bob

[johnho]

Bruce B and others, you have sold me on the M die in station 3. with directions like Bruce gives how can anyone go wrong? thanks a lot.

John