What are the softer and more reliable primers?

[lwknight]

It was by accident that I got this comparison. I grabbed up a box of recently manufactured CCI large pistol magnum primers thinking that it was the magtech 2 1/2 standard. And also picked a box of CCI LPM primers that were made several years back when they came in the small packets.

I intended to use magnum primers in a full house 44mag load with W296 and I did. Then for a lighter load(plinking) with 8.0 grains WSF , I thought that I was using Magtech Standard primers but, they were the new CCI Magmun primers.

I have a light hammer on my kitted Ruger SRH and it would not fire a single 1 of the new CCI primers D.A. and needed 2nd strike for S.A.

In contrast, I did not have a single misfire with the old CCI primers even in D.A.

So, being things what they are.
What primers are easier to fire than the new CCI LPM primers?

[dubber123]

Federals are the softest, followed by Winchester, then CCI in my experience.

[RayinNH]

That's the new line of primers as mandated by the government, they don't actually fire:kidding:...Ray

[lwknight]

Come to think of it, some of my older ammo that never misfires has winchester primers. I thought that CCI reformulated their stuff for the better in recent years. I guess I thought wrong. Years ago CCI was the scurge then they got more popular.

[imashooter2]

Federals are the softest, followed by Winchester, then CCI in my experience.

Concur.

[dubber123]

Concur.

I figured that out by shooting them in the same 625 Smith you have in your Avatar, with a light spring kit.... ;-)

[44man]

It was by accident that I got this comparison. I grabbed up a box of recently manufactured CCI large pistol magnum primers thinking that it was the magtech 2 1/2 standard. And also picked a box of CCI LPM primers that were made several years back when they came in the small packets.

I intended to use magnum primers in a full house 44mag load with W296 and I did. Then for a lighter load(plinking) with 8.0 grains WSF , I thought that I was using Magtech Standard primers but, they were the new CCI Magmun primers.

I have a light hammer on my kitted Ruger SRH and it would not fire a single 1 of the new CCI primers D.A. and needed 2nd strike for S.A.

In contrast, I did not have a single misfire with the old CCI primers even in D.A.

So, being things what they are.
What primers are easier to fire than the new CCI LPM primers?
Have you tried Fed 150 primers with 296 in the .44? You might double your accuracy.
Light mainsprings also rob accuracy. I don't even like a factory spring in Ruger's and install Wolfe over power variable springs in all of my revolvers.
My friend came hunting on a cold day a few weeks ago with his Marlin 45-70. He was using a good charge of 4198. His first shot was very weak and instead of hitting the deer in the shoulder, he broke her leg with the blooper. His second shot did not fire.
He was using CCI primers and the dents were not deep enough to set them off. Hard primers along with the cold that might have slowed the firing pin or hammer because of oil.
The first thing I would do is to make sure the gun has a strong enough mainspring to fire any primer and to promote all the accuracy from the gun it is capable of. It would feel pretty bad to have a bear standing over you and your gun goes click, click, click! [smilie=b:
The spring has nothing to do with the trigger pull and it is easy to get down to 1-1/2# triggers with a strong spring. I would at least put the original back in the gun.
Anyway, those are the best suggestions I have.

[dubber123]

In my 625 I did the light spring thing for shooting fast DA in competition. Even though it is 100% with Federals, I put the stock mainspring back in, and left the lighter return spring. Mine is a newer gun with those damnable cast parts that are lighter than the older forged stuff. The guys with the older Smiths have no trouble running the light mainspring due to the heavier hammer.

[lwknight]

I think I should cancel a back-order for cci primers and re-order federal. cci is so cheap that I might just put the stock spring back in. The original in the SRH was #14 and I put in a #10 to test. It definately lightened the DA trigger but I'm getting better with it and might be OK with the factory childproof mainspring.

[405]

Oil, grease on or in gun parts during cold weather will affect firing pin energy
Grunge on or in gun parts will affect firing pin energy
Weak or "tuned" mainsprings will affect firing pin energy
Worn or mis-aligned gun parts will affect firing pin energy
FIT of primer in primer pocket will affect primer ignition
Some primer pockets are smaller or larger than others
Some lots and/or brands of primers are smaller or larger than others
Primer not seated to bottom of primer pocket will affect primer ignition
Different brands of primers are different
Primer cups and compounds have changed over time within same brand
Certain primers like the CCI milspec types are harder to ignite on purpose

If in doubt or have a choice of brand... I use Remington

[imashooter2]

In my 625 I did the light spring thing for shooting fast DA in competition. Even though it is 100% with Federals, I put the stock mainspring back in, and left the lighter return spring. Mine is a newer gun with those damnable cast parts that are lighter than the older forged stuff. The guys with the older Smiths have no trouble running the light mainspring due to the heavier hammer.

E=MV^2
Heavier hammers decrease firing pin engery with the lightened springs because their velocity decreases. The guys that want to go to the very edge of low weight trigger pulls in USPSA radically lighten the hammer to do so.

[dubber123]

E=MV^2
Heavier hammers decrease firing pin engery with the lightened springs because their velocity decreases. The guys that want to go to the very edge of low weight trigger pulls in USPSA radically lighten the hammer to do so.

I dunno, 2 of us with the new guns tried it, and got misfires with anything less than Feds. 3 other guys shoot the old style guns, no problems. Same kits, installed by me. Maybe the Clinton lock drags on the new guns?

[fecmech]

I dunno, 2 of us with the new guns tried it, and got misfires with anything less than Feds. 3 other guys shoot the old style guns, no problems. Same kits, installed by me. Maybe the Clinton lock drags on the new guns?
Have you actually weighed the hammers?? When I shot PPC many moons ago I took the target hammer out of my K-38 and replaced it with the standard hammer which was lighter and more reliable with the light mainspring in DA.

[mooman76]

From the reports I'm hereing on Wolf primers, they are similar to CCI.

[dubber123]

Have you actually weighed the hammers?? When I shot PPC many moons ago I took the target hammer out of my K-38 and replaced it with the standard hammer which was lighter and more reliable with the light mainspring in DA.

No I haven't, they are very similar in size and shape, (basically identical), however the sides of the new cast ones are hollowed out where you can't see it in the frame. Quite a bit of material has been removed.

[imashooter2]

Check out Randy Lee's work over on Apex Tactical. Randy is cutting edge on low pull weight S&W revolvers.
http://www.apextactical.com/

Mike Carmoney over on Enos also sets up very light competition guns.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=192

[lwknight]

I have a SW 29 that I have not shot all that much because it misfires. I tried a lighter spring right after I got back interested in shooting it and even with the tension screwall the way in was not reliable. So I put the original spring back in and the same thing.

Now looking back, I think I used mag-tech primers. And the reason that it used to work flawlessly was that I was using Remington primers till I had to reload again and could not get Rem. primers.

I really doubt that this has merit but I will tell it anyway.

There is an old mechanics tale, that if you take a coil spring out of an "A" frame that it will be harder to put back in than a new one that is even longer on the strech out. They say that if you let the old spring relax for severa days that it will go back in easier.
It sounds like a legend to me but, if there is any truth to it, that may be why the SW29 would not work as good as it did before messing with the springs.

Now I have to go back to all my ammo and try to remember back 20 years to try and figure out what batches have what primers. I will load up some more with the old CCI primers that I have and I will bet that it does not misfire.

It will be sooooo great when I can just go to the local sporting store and get a few of whatever primer I want instead of having to order 15K at a time just to save hazmat and shipping for what is not even my first choice primers that are backordered 12 weeks if I'm lucky.

[44man]

Not all springs are equal. Some are light yet real fast so they work fine because they get the hammer moving with some speed. Some take a set and lose power.
Ruger mainsprings always gave me trouble when I shot silhouette and when accuracy fell off, I had to put a new one in. There is a great difference in length if you lay a new one alongside an old one.
The magazine springs in Ruger .22 pistols really are bad and if you leave shells in them, you can never fire all of them so the spring has to be taken out and stretched. I have never found a replacement for them.
Remington shotguns go to pot in a hurry and fail to feed even if you just hunt a day. I was buying those magazine springs from Wolfe by the dozens, had to change everybody's springs when they had trouble.
Now find a WWII 1911 magazine that has been loaded since the war and the darn thing will still work.
I just use Wolfe springs now because they work. Makes life easier.
Ten fellas can all have the same gun and some will have trouble and others can shoot forever without any.
It is amazing how the mainsprings can affect accuracy so if your old gun is not shooting like it used to, try a new spring.

[dubber123]

Check out Randy Lee's work over on Apex Tactical. Randy is cutting edge on low pull weight S&W revolvers.
http://www.apextactical.com/

Mike Carmoney over on Enos also sets up very light competition guns.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=192

Both look like they do nice work. I see Carmony recommends only Federal primers, and wants them seated until they are "slightly crushed below pocket height" Must be pretty light hitters. I'm guessing maybe 5# DA pulls?

[GabbyM]

Sinclairintl dot com has Remington and Federal large pistol primers in stock today.
Federals have been scarce for a long time. Catch is they have no small pistol and limited rifle primers so it's hard to stock up with one haz-mat fee.

[Char-Gar]

Very seldom in discussion of primers are Remington primers mentioned. I have found them to be as good as any and better than some for most cast bullet applications in either rifle or pistol.

[dubber123]

Very seldom in discussion of primers are Remington primers mentioned. I have found them to be as good as any and better than some for most cast bullet applications in either rifle or pistol.

I would mention them if I had more experience with them. They are a rare item around here. I can only recall ever firing maybe 1-200 of them period, and I can't even recall where I got them.

[Bullshop]

Sorry I didn't have time to read the whole post here but just wanted to add a tidbit.
For the softest primer I have found it to be the Rem 1 1/2 for small pistol.
I have not tested to see if all Rems are softer but I am absolutely sure the 1 1/2 is softer than any other small pistol.
For dependability I have to go with CCI. My single six conversion to center fire has the firing pin off center just a bit. The one single primer that is absolutely certain to fire 100% is the CCI.
So for light firing pin strike I go Rem and for off center strike I go CCI.
BTW the only primers on the shelf at our Sportsmans warehouse are Rem's.
BIC/BS

[imashooter2]

Both look like they do nice work. I see Carmony recommends only Federal primers, and wants them seated until they are "slightly crushed below pocket height" Must be pretty light hitters. I'm guessing maybe 5# DA pulls?


Yep, both Randy and Mike are at 5 pounds. I do my own work on my USPSA and ICORE revolvers and get to 7 pretty easily with a full weight hammer and 14 pound rebound spring. But they are only 60% or so with Winchesters.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I started using Rem SP this summer, I got them from Cabala's . . . gone through about 1400 of them, all work just fine, use to use CCI's . . . I would buy either again, actually gonna go to "town" today and look for some . . . 80+ mi one way!

Question for 44man:

I'm wondering (not debating or arguing) . . . when you say the mainspring makes a difference in accuracy, is this because there is quicker primer ignition, more complete ignition, more reliable ignition?

Just wondering . . . as I put Wolfe reduced springs in both our DA's . . . both trigger & hammer . . . I've never been a great shot . . . but a little help sure would help!

[smilie=s:

[Daddyfixit]

I've had that proplem with CCI, I now use Winchester primers. I've also had issues reloading with the CCI primers being VERY hard to seat sometimes, I have not had a problem now that I use Winchester