best non-optical sighting solution

[DeadWood]

What does everyone use besides a scope to improve accuracy for paper punching and hunting purposes?

I have always wanted to try the XS SightSystem

http://www.gunblast.com/Ashley_Ghost_Ring.htm

BUT had read a thread on the Williams 5D aperture sight, that served double duty when aperture was removed they used it like a ghost site.

Looking for something that i can work up loads with and do a little precision shooting with my Win. 94 and hunt with.

[Larry Gibson]

I have used the Lyman 66 receiver sight for many many years with nothing but excellent use on numerous M94s. I also use the Lymans and old Redfields on numerous other rifles. I prefer the Lyman over the Williams be cause the Lyman is more readily adjustable than the williams. If you are going to zero for one load and leave the sight alone then the Williams is fine. However, if you have different loads or want to adjust for longer range shots then the Lyman is the best.

I also prefer a hooded post front sight on my M94s although my Black Shadow (Modernized M64 configuration) M94 AE has a globe front sight with a post aperture in it.

Larry Gibson

[stubshaft]

I have used the Ashley Ghost sight on all 3 of my 1895's. It is bulletproof! Truly a set and forget type of sight. It is rugged and I can't imagine the type of abuse you would have to put your gun through to get the sights to shift or move.

It is fast to pick up and with the vertical white line on the front sight it is extremely accurate if you have the time to "aim small".

I have used Williams, Lymans and Redfields some of them are still mounted on my rifles. BUT, if I had to do it all over again I would mount ghost sights on all of them (except the Mdl 52 with the Redfield Palma).

[Jacko.357]

I am impressed with the accuracy gains I acheived with my Rossi M92 24" barrel .357 mag after I fitted a .050 wide Skinner front sight blade and a Lyman Tang sight, it's very fast to acquire a sight picture and shoot quickly in hunting situations with a .093 aperture. Running shots are no problem. On targets using a .050 aperture my groups sharank by half at 50 and 100 yards. I have practiced to 200 yards and have grouped into 8". I have hunted and shot targets with the aperuture removed and accuracy was excellant with the Ghost ring effect evident as well.

I put a Williams Foolproof on my 1894 Marlin .44 mag, it works far better than the factory Buckhorns with my eyes. I cant stand the factory bead sight, a .040 wide Skinner arrived yesterday. I should get it fitted this weekend and am expecting a similar improvement to the sight picture that I acheived on the Rossi. I would have fitted another Tang sight to the Marlin but it's not drilled and tapped and I was not forking out the $'s when the FP will do a similar job and it's a bolt on.

As the Marlin has about a 7" shorter sight radius than the Rossi I have found a .093 aperture great for hunting and .050 great for punchin paper. I have used it without an aperuture, it ghost ringed but I shot better with apertures, just my eyes.

regards Jacko

[doubs43]

A tang sight would be my choice. Lyman makes a good one but I prefer the Marble's because it has windage adjustments. I have Marble's tang sights on both of my lever action rifles and couldn't be happier.

[DeadWood]

Don't like the way the tang sights look and afraid if stumbling through the woods it might be prone to accidents, for my purpose i think the reciever mounted sights might be better. never used any of these sights before so its like decieding on a car you haven't driven.

thanks

[jh45gun]

I use a peep sight I have a WIlliams now but I would like to find sooner or later one that is easier to adjust so I can switch between cast and jacketed loads easier. I have a fiber optic front sight on my 94 and it is really a nice set up that way. Easy to see at dusk and dawn and good any other time too.

[DeadWood]

I use a peep sight I have a WIlliams now but I would like to find sooner or later one that is easier to adjust so I can switch between cast and jacketed loads easier. I have a fiber optic front sight on my 94 and it is really a nice set up that way. Easy to see at dusk and dawn and good any other time too.

What fiber optic front sight do you have?

Haven't found anyone that has or used the XS system. the discription says it can be adjusted for elevation and windage. My problem is not knowing enough about this type of sight in gereral if this site is user friendly enough to do exactly what you and I want....switch between loads

[yondering]

The Marble's Bullseye rear sight is another option. See my thread here: http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=70386

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Misc/IMG_2815.jpg

[DeadWood]

For $15 the Marble's rear sight sounds to good to be true. Worth trying just for that price. Did you have to buy a different front post? they have lots of options and sizes thats for sure.

[Naphtali]

What does everyone use besides a scope to improve accuracy for paper punching and hunting purposes? . . .
An interesting question. My cartridge rifles are Marlin 1895s, one XLR (24-inch barrel), one Guide Gun (18.5-inch barrel). Both have Brockman's wing-protected adjustable aperture sight assemblies. I should be more than satisfied with well-made, all-steel sights. And I was . . . until I shot Jimmy Harrison's (Double H Custom Hats, Darby, Montana) new 476 Turnbull, on a Winchester/USRAC 1886 Winchester rifle (26-inch barrel). On this rifle Mr. Turnbull mounted a Marble's standard tang sight. This was a revelation on many levels.
1. The sight did not hit me in the face or scratch my spectacles during this Boomer's recoil.

2. The sight did not interfere with normal lever/bolt manipulation.

3. Jimmy and my shooting partner, Bob, were able to consistently hit targets 830 yards away. Yes, the target was a large rectangular metal plate, but I could not see it without binocular.

4. The sight appeared to acquire targets more quickly than I would have expected.
***
Okay, I have bought Marble's adjustable tang sights for both 1895s. Bear in mind that this tang sight is adjustable for windage and elevation while Lyman's is not. My gunsmith is mounting the sights on the 1895s. Rather than guess or pontificate whether tang sights are superior to receiver-mounted sights, I intend to test. What I'm interested in includes the following:
A. Does my accuracy from the bench change from sight-to-sight - that is, does the longer sighting length of tang sight make a difference with either barrel length? If it does, do I consider the change significant?

B. From off-hand, sitting, kneeling, and hasty rest, does my time acquiring targets for the first shot change? If it does, do I consider the change significant?

C. Repeat "B." for two-shot "burst."
***
When I've completed the tests, I'll dispose of the sight that tested as being inferior - for me. This might mean a Marble's sight on one rifle, and a Brockman's on the other. That's the beauty of testing.
***
I do not appreciate receiver sights that mount on the side. I strongly prefer the less obtrusive top mount. I also loathe aluminum sight assemblies when more attractive, more durable, more precise steel assemblies are available.

Among such sights, the most attractive to me is Grizzly Custom Guns' sight. While beautiful, it is large and very expensive. Brockman's sight is much less expensive, also all-steel, petite, and as protected as Grizzly's.

XS' sight assembly? - interesting but appears to have lower designed-in durability than Brockman's. This, I think, might be quibbling since Marble's sight is naked.

Hope this helps.

[jh45gun]

What fiber optic front sight do you have?

Haven't found anyone that has or used the XS system. the discription says it can be adjusted for elevation and windage. My problem is not knowing enough about this type of sight in gereral if this site is user friendly enough to do exactly what you and I want....switch between loads


Pretty sure it is the Williams fire sight one made for the Model 94.

[Jacko.357]

Before I fitted the Tang sight to my Rossi I was using a Skinner Dovetail mounted peep , worked much better than the factory Buckhorns but I wanted to try the Tang and I'm glad I did. I had concerns about them hanging up or affecting my grip, they have proven unfounded. They been around since the mid 1800's for a reason.

When I chose the Williams FP sight I had an image in my head of easy adjustability so I bought a set of target knobs not giving a moments thought to the fact the FP uses lock screws. In hindsight I should have bought the Skinner receiver top mounted sight and saved a bunch of $'s and had a more compact look to the rifle.

The Skinner sights are compact, well made, very tough and well priced

http://skinnersights.com/

regards Jacko

[Okie2]

I have a Winnie 94AE in .357 that came with the XS & I love it....my old eyes suck & the white blade on the front sight ist great for all conditions. That being said, I just installed a Marbles Tang on my Puma 92 (also a .357) & used a HiViz front blade...also easy to see & readily adjustable. Scott

[NHlever]

I've used a lot of different sights on 94 Winchesters, and Marlins over the years. I tried the Redfield "sourdough" gold ramp front, a 1/8" white bead one year that you could see in the moonlight, and various other combinations. Recently I found that Millett makes a steep ramp front sight for both the Marlins, and Winchesters that have a dovetail in the barrel. It is available in both white, and orange, and is about .100 wide. I have shot some very good groups with the orange one, and I can assure you that you can see it until past legal shooting time in the woods. I remember once I bumped into a doe, and fawn on my way out from my stand, and I could see that orange post against her when I'm sure I couldn't have seen crosshairs. The sharp flat top makes for good sighting against most targets too. I have used it with both Lyman, and Williams receiver sights. Brownells stocks them, but I've never seen them aound locally, or read anything about them. Sure are more inexpensive than the XS, and more visible to my 62 year old eyes.

[softpoint]

Here is a Skinner ladder peep. I've just got this sight from an individual. Skinner is out of them until Feb. he says. I'm going to get another in steel . This one's brass, but that is what I could get. A very unique sight. low aperture for close range, flip up for distance. back side of the ladder is graduated in marks(no numbers) for reference. Windage can be adjusted independently for each aperture by the slotted screw holes too. I have a Lyman globe on the front of this 1895 CB
The Lower aperture comes with a larger hole than the ladder. The ones on mine are about right, too,but he will make you whatever size you want.

[Tazman1602]

Never been a big open sights person.........but, I made a rifle trade with a local guy for my 45-70GG and it had $100+ worth of XS Ghost ring and williams (I *think*) firesight front site on it. Shoots GREATS and sight aquisition even with my old bad eyes is really good. I also have a 450 Marlin GG and have the old Ashley Outdoors (predessesor to XS...) scout scope mount and a Leupold IER on it. Love that setup too. I've got one other Marlin, a 444GG and on that one I just have a regular scope mount with a Bushnell 1.75-4 (again I think...) and that can get awful close to giving you scope eye if you don't have ahold of it --- it did give my wife a case of scope eye and she won't shoot it anymore.

NOW that being said for the price, if I was shucking out my hard earned money I think I'd try one of those Brass Skinner ghost rings, those look NICE!

For the tang sight crowd I've got a buddy who has an original Savage 99 300 Savage with the old Marbles tang sight (the sight is probably worth more than the gun...) and for 30 years I've watched him put that rifle up, take the sight off and put it in his jewlery box then put it on the next year and next even shoot a sighter and he's never missed a deer with it.

To carry all day through the woods my 45-70 with the XS Ghost rings is by FAR the easiest to latch on to and carry with no sling.

Art

[yondering]

For $15 the Marble's rear sight sounds to good to be true. Worth trying just for that price. Did you have to buy a different front post? they have lots of options and sizes thats for sure.

It's worth trying for sure. I put it on my Mossberg 500 slug barrel, and didn't have to replace the front sight. YMMV. I did find that I got the right elevation with the elevator removed.

My only complaint was the dovetail slot was a little large, BUT my Mossberg barrel may have a slot that is too small, so I'm not 100% sure the sight was at fault. A minute or two with a file fixed it.

[EdS]

I don't think anyone mentioned that Williams also makes the Foolproof receiver sight. It looks similar to the 5D but has accurate 1/4 MOA click adjustments for windage and elevation. I have one on my Marlin 30 AS and it is great with a flat top post front sight at the range and for hunting. Good Shooting, Ed

[Rodfac]

Over the years I've shot both receiver mounted and tang mounted peeps on a variety of rifles. Currently I have a tang on a Win Model 62A, Win 1894 in .38-55, Win M-65 in .25-20, a Marlin 1889 in .38-40, and a Win M-92 in .32-20. Shimming with paper or plastic colored black is not a problem so I wouldn't discount any of the tang types for lack of windage adjustment. The tang sights look a little flimsy but in use are no problem, even in a saddle scabbard.

I've also use Lyman's 66, and Williams 5D and Foolproof on two Win M-94's and a Marlin 336.

To be honest, I can't see any difference in the speed of the sight...ie, my ability to snap the rifle up and acquire the target. The book answer is: the closer the peep is to your eye, the faster you can acquire the target. For me...the M1 Garand, the '03-A3, and the M1 Carbine have the perfect set of iron sights. Fast, with large enough peep apertures and good adjustment features. For all but high level hi power competition at ranges over 200 yds, one MOA sight adjustment is fine.

I've tried the "ghost ring" type and could see no difference in the plain peep with its disc removed allowing more light to pass through. If the stock fits and you've practiced enough with that rifle, getting a good stock weld with your eye positioned directly behind the peep is no big hurdle...the peep with it's disc removed will allow you to see through to the front sight. You shouldn't even be aware of the rear peep in use...you sight only with the front post.

Of more import in late evening or early morning hunting is a front sight that is visible...and does not reflect glare...white out typing correction fluid serves this purpose just fine and is easily removed when you want to punch targets against a black bull-target board backround and a 6 o'clock hold.

My thoughts...50+ yrs of doing it my own way...your's may and most probably will vary...Rodfac

[405]

Got both tang and receiver peeps on levers. The tang sight is closer to the eye and gives a longer sight radius but the tang is more "in the way" than other sights. The receiver sight has a slightly shorter sight radius but is much less "in the way". The barrel sights no matter the type have the shortest sight radius and potentially are the least accurate. For the Win 94.... I prefer the receiver peep. Most have a removable eye disc so can be changed for larger or smaller aperture or removed entirely for more of a "ghost ring" type doohickey.