1898 Winchester 95 (.30 U.S.) issues

[Char-Gar]

Well, I am still trying to get all of the copper fouling out of this vintage rifle, but several issues are coming to the fore. The bore is going to come out darn near prinstine, with nary a pit or hicky and a nice shiney surface. That is good!

I have sluged it three times and each time I come out with .311 grove diameter. That is neither good nor bad, but I wonder if the barrel was not a .303 Brit barrel they stamped .30 U.S. or maybe in 1898 they didn't give a hoot. It is not unsual to find a Krag of that vintage run as big as that.

This rifle barrel is nor particularily worn in the throat either. That is good!

But, the throat won't accomidate bullets larger than .311 without serious shaving of lead. So it look like groove diamter will be the size we must use. That is not what I would like.. I would like to use bullets of .312, but that isn't going to work.

Now the sights. The barrel has been shortened from 28 to 24 inches and a ramp front sight installed. The rear is a Lyman 77 globe front mounted on the rear of the bolt with two screws from underneath the bolt. That presents an apeture rear sight but is not adjustable for squat.

Bullet POI is 16 inches low at 50 yards. No amount of shortening the front sight will compensate for that. I am going to have to add a spacer under the rear Globe sight to get in the ball game. Not a serious chore, but a chore none the less.

Why do we keep jacking with these old rifles..why...tell me why?

[45 2.1]

Why do we keep jacking with these old rifles..why...tell me why?

Because they shoot cast better and are prime examples of the gun makers art that aren't available now, thats why.

[Bass Ackward]

I have sluged it three times and each time I come out with .311 grove diameter. That is neither good nor bad.

But, the throat won't accomidate bullets larger than .311 without serious shaving of lead. So it look like groove diamter will be the size we must use. That is not what I would like.. I would like to use bullets of .312, but that isn't going to work.


Chargar,

Neither good or bad? I think it is great! Assuming the bore is still close to .300, you have taller rifling. Except for problems with some factory molds, I say you hit a homer. You ought to be able to use ACWW just like you would jacketed in that piece.

When you are cleaning with Sweets, just push the patch into the throat and let it sit there while you are waiting on your 20 minutes. If it was coppered that much in the bore, chances are the throat is the worst. But even at that, throaters can be rented for $20 and the job done by hand in less than 1 minute. You can get them in any size you want. Personally, I would want about .313. Leaving .0005 for clearance upon chambering this would allow you some flexibility in your mix hardness if you used a .312 sizer. ACWW should size about .3122 and lino about .3125-6 and still chamber. Add a coat of LLA and you got a soft seal that you can't buy.

[John F. Lang]

Charger,

You might want to do a chamber csat of the gun.

They (Winchester) made more of that model in 7.62 x 54R than any other caliber, I believe.

That may account for the bore size.

I've been looking for one in that caliber (7.62 x 54R0 forever!

So far I've come up dry. I'll keep looking.

Congratulations on the gun. It's a neat rifle.

JL

[felix]

Shoot it with high antimony boolits and the throat will soon fit perfectly. Use high pressure loads, meaning using a slightly faster powder than you otherwise would use. Download for accuracy point. ... felix

[Char-Gar]

Couple of answers and a question.

The rifle is indeed a 30 U.S. (30-40) and not a Ruskie. 30-40 fired rounds still come out 30-40 cases.

Felix... About high antimony bullets...will Linotype do? That is fairly high antimony. I have a goodly supply of antimony. When you talk about fast powders I think of 2400 and 4759. Is that what your are talking about?

The bore is .301 with a very short spot at the muzzle where it is .302. I take this to be cleaning rod wear. I suppose I could ream out this section, but don't think it will be necessary. So I make this rifle .301 X .311 with a .311 throat.

I might end up reaming the throat to .313 but that is a last resort issue.

[felix]

Yeah, Charger, that will do, and woud be a lot cheaper if your lino is worn out, i.e., not much tin left. Check your lino for the slush time. If little or no slush between completely-melted-completely-frozen then the lino is too good and should not be "wasted". In that situation, cut the lino 50-50 with currently available WW (not the old stuff, which is also too good). Your powder choices are good. Start out around 23-25 grains and work towards full case swell, and then back down for accuracy. I do NOT know this gun and how strong it is, so others might help you to get the "heat" up. Whenever leading appears, add tin back into the alloy, but slowly. You want the tin percentage to be as low as is feasible for the job on hand. ... felix

[Wayne Smith]

You can get a copy of the Lyman sight made for that rifle from Buffalo Arms, but - it's over $200 if I remember right. I have one on my current made 405 Win. 1895. It appears to be very well made, nicely detailed with two aperture sizes.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The 1895 is an exception, but it is funny, I seem to lavish more attention on the ex mil rifles which are the cheapest rifles in my 'collection' than the others. I think it is that they demand a level of respect from thinking people with soul and in return give great satisfaction.

[Char-Gar]

Felix.. The 95 action will handle 50K psi rounds, but when you get much past 40K psi, you do get some action flex/spring with all the problems that cause with case life, a la SMLE thread. I want to keep the loads well below the 40K area. The rifle is 108 years old and I want to keep it around for many more years.

Wayne.. I ordered one of those Buffalo Arms Ukranian made Lyman clones to put on my Brownchester 95 in 30-40. But after a year or so delay in delivery, I went with the Ashley for the rifle. At this time $200.00 is more t han I want to pay for the sight and I don't want to drill any extra holes in the old Winchester. I can make a riser block for the existing rear sight out of scrap I have around the house and a little time. Me...I am cheap!!!

4fingwemick... The Winchester 95 is the best levergun every designed and built at least in my humble opinion. Like you, I tend toward the military rifles with history, but these old Winchesters do have allot of panache.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have always fancied an 1895. I can't understand why the SAS don't allow them. They wouldn't be all that competitive in 'long' range side events being restricted to 1400fps anyway.

I have never seen ant surplus ones in Australia, just the new ones. I'd like a trio in 3006, 303 Brit and 7.62x54 Russian. I'm not greedy, I just want one of each :-)

[flhroy]

Chargar, do you have access to a copy of 'Pet Loads' by Ken Waters? Mr. Waters had a lot of good things to say about the 1895 in 30US in that book. He had one of his own and it seems to me it was one of his favorite rifles. If you pm me I'll send you some of his loads if you would like. I came across a sporter Krag not too long ago and some of the loads he says are too hot for the military surplus rifles but were just fine for his 1895.

Roy

[Char-Gar]

flyroy.... I have Ken Water's Pet Loads and have read his 30-40 section a number of times. I am just about a 30-40 nut! I have the Winchester 95 a Browning version of the same rifle in 30-40 and two Krags.

I have just acquired a third Krag for the action. I will fit it with a new Remington 03A3 two groove barrel. It will get a new stock and all of the fancy stuff.

I shoot nothing but cast bullets in all of my 30-40 rifles... well for that matter, I shoot nothing but cast in all of my rifles.

I killed my first deer in 1960 with a Krag and hope to kill my last one with the same rifle.