35 Rem Small Ring Mauser

[bstarling]

I really don't know where to start this post. Firstly, it is my first even though I've been a board member for sometime now. Anyway, Here we go.

I have decided that I need (want) a small ring Mauser in 35 Remington, and I want to build it. I am familiar with what is needed to do the build, but have never done a rebarrel before. I am thinking that to confuse it even more I might like to do it with a barrel nut for a change barrel set up. I have a 7x14 mini lathe that I've been able to do some barrel tapering with, but can't begin to get anything more than about 0.750" into the headstock. I am guessing I can get the barrel blank part way into the headstock and ride it in a steady rest, but not sure. I can always get a machine shop to thread it if I can't. I need to get a .358 barrel. A pre-threaded one would be great, but so far I haven't found one that I can afford. If it were finish chambered that would be even better. Does anyone have any Ideas or comments. I would appreciate all the help I can get.

Many thanks, and I'm glad to be on board.

Bill:veryconfu

[StarMetal]

I really don't know where to start this post. Firstly, it is my first even though I've been a board member for sometime now. Anyway, Here we go.

I have decided that I need (want) a small ring Mauser in 35 Remington, and I want to build it. I am familiar with what is needed to do the build, but have never done a rebarrel before. I am thinking that to confuse it even more I might like to do it with a barrel nut for a change barrel set up. I have a 7x14 mini lathe that I've been able to do some barrel tapering with, but can't begin to get anything more than about 0.750" into the headstock. I am guessing I can get the barrel blank part way into the headstock and ride it in a steady rest, but not sure. I can always get a machine shop to thread it if I can't. I need to get a .358 barrel. A pre-threaded one would be great, but so far I haven't found one that I can afford. If it were finish chambered that would be even better. Does anyone have any Ideas or comments. I would appreciate all the help I can get.

Many thanks, and I'm glad to be on board.

Bill:veryconfu

I think you may be in luck. I'm pretty sure Larry Gibson has one or done that. He should be along soon.

Joe

[bstarling]

I truly hope so. I've got a bug in my britches and it has to go. They only way is for me to make this work. Thanks for the quick reply.

Bill

[deltaenterprizes]

I think you are under tooled and under skilled. It would be a challenge for a seasoned gunsmith to accomplish that task with that level of tooling. How do you expect to indicate the bore true? the barrell OD is rarely concentric with the bore. Getting a machine shop to thread your barrel would be asking them to do gunsmithing without an FFL which is a felony that can result in 10 yr and/or $10,000 fine. Barrel work is not what you would call "general machine work" it is more in the "tool & die making" realm of machine work. You could be building a bomb and placing it right next to your head, small ring Mauser actions are not the strongest actions , I think a 98 would be a much safer choice.
Will the barrel even fit in the spindle of a 7x14 lathe? My first lathe was a 9x30 Southbend and it only had a 3/4" spindle bore.
I am not trying to offend you but barreling rifles is serious business and if things go wrong the results can be disastrous, if not deadly to the shooter and nearby spectators also.

[bstarling]

I think you are under tooled and under skilled. It would be a challenge for a seasoned gunsmith to accomplish that task with that level of tooling. How do you expect to indicate the bore true? the barrell OD is rarely concentric with the bore. Getting a machine shop to thread your barrel would be asking them to do gunsmithing without an FFL which is a felony that can result in 10 yr and/or $10,000 fine. Barrel work is not what you would call "general machine work" it is more in the "tool & die making" realm of machine work. You could be building a bomb and placing it right next to your head, small ring Mauser actions are not the strongest actions , I think a 98 would be a much safer choice.
Will the barrel even fit in the spindle of a 7x14 lathe? My first lathe was a 9x30 Southbend and it only had a 3/4" spindle bore.
I am not trying to offend you but barreling rifles is serious business and if things go wrong the results can be disastrous, if not deadly to the shooter and nearby spectators also.

I am pretty sure I am under tooled and that may well be the limiting factor. I am not under skilled in machine work, though. It would take some careful work, but I am also certain I can get the bore indicated, so concentricty should be no problem. I am thinking that if I can get a substantial portion of the barrel into the spindle, I can use a steady to get alignment with the bore and cut the threads.

I am aware that a shop cannot build a weapon for sale without an FFL, but I am reasonably certain that cutting threads does not qualify as gun making for sale. I could be wrong, but don't think so.

I appreciate your input and look forward to more.

Thanks, Bill

[deltaenterprizes]

The fact that they need to take possession of the receiver from you to fit the threads (i would not do it any other way) constitutes gunsmithing without a license, unless you stand there with the receiver while the operator threads the barrel. Also is this machinist , not gunsmith. going to dial in the bore to be concentric with the bore, or indicate the OD to .005" and start cutting? And does he know it the threads are 55* or 60*? Next rag in the gears, is the machinist a convicted felon? How many other guns have you rebarreled? Do you have a chamber reamer and GO and NO GO guages and know how to use them, and a barrel vise and action wrench?
Next thing, what is the hourly rate for for machine time in your area? $60/hr is cheap more than likely $80 to $100 and do they want the risk of the gun blowing up and you blaming them for the work they did?

[StarMetal]

deltaenterprizes,

Do you have something against this fellow doing a rifle project? I can understand advice to keep him out of legal problems, but it's almost as if you don't want him to do it. Everyone has to start somewhere.

We're not talking about a bench rest rifle. He probably wants a 35 Rem to shoot cast and deer hunt. You don't have to do all that stuff you mentioned except with for the head space gauges. With pre-threaded barrels you even have to do less, providing he can find one in 35 Rem for a small ring mauser. I know where he can get, but it doesn't sound like it would be in his price range. A short chambered Mauser barrel isn't out of the realm of the do it yourself. You can rent the finish reamer and ream the final portion by hand and often checking with the go gauge.

Or are you trying to show off your gunsmithing prowlness?

Joe:mrgreen:

[lathesmith]

Some guys ream out the spindle bores of their mini-lathes to 13/16" just to be able to do the work you describe. This gives you just enough clearance to be able to handle T/C Contender barrel profiles, especially when you mount a 5" 4-jaw chuck.
Have you considered one of these barrels:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=537134

I believe this barrel profile would fit your minilathe, provided it was reamed as per above and you had a 5" 4-jaw chuck. I don't even think you would need to resort to a steady rest if you use these items in combination.

Good luck with your project!
lathesmith

[rockrat]

-I am sure you can order a short chambered barrel in the contour you want, from Shaw, Pac-nor, Lothar-Walther, or Shilen for your action and then ream to final dimensions

[bstarling]

deltaenterprizes,

Do you have something against this fellow doing a rifle project? I can understand advice to keep him out of legal problems, but it's almost as if you don't want him to do it. Everyone has to start somewhere.

We're not talking about a bench rest rifle. He probably wants a 35 Rem to shoot cast and deer hunt. You don't have to do all that stuff you mentioned except with for the head space gauges. With pre-threaded barrels you even have to do less, providing he can find one in 35 Rem for a small ring mauser. I know where he can get, but it doesn't sound like it would be in his price range. A short chambered Mauser barrel isn't out of the realm of the do it yourself. You can rent the finish reamer and ream the final portion by hand and often checking with the go gauge.

Or are you trying to show off your gunsmithing prowlness?

Joe:mrgreen:


Thanks Joe. I completely appreciate your input. I really didn't want to start a pissin match on my first post, so will continue to bite my tongue. I can have a smith do it, but that doesn't count as far as I am concerned with this project. I want to and will get it done. You are exactly right about the rifle. I want make it on the cheap and for the most part by my own hand. I want it to go bang and shoot lead at paper and hogs. If I could find a prechambered threaded small ring barrel, the rest would be a cake walk. It would even be better if I could find the barred without a shoulder and a long thread. I'd for sure make a Savage, Mossberg barrel nut set up.

Thanks again,

Bill [smilie=w:

[bstarling]

The link to the A&B blank and the comment on boring out the headstock is helpful. Thanks Lathesmith.

I wonder if these are made either in short chamber or finish chambered small rings in the .358. I found some short chambered A&B's in all of the usual small ring calibers, but not the 35 Rem.

Bill

[swheeler]

bstarling: Just an idea here but you could have ER Shaw make up a prefit SR barrel for you. I'm sure they would ream chamber to .100" protrusion(ready to go no reamer needed), thread with a 1.00 inch long shank, contour and crown. Now all you have to do is make yourself a barrel nut of approx .300" thickness, thread it all the way onto the barrel, drop in the Go gage, thread barrel into rec fitted with stripped bolt until it lightly contacts the go gage( this will leave approx .075" between nut and barrel shank-depending on your rec), tighten down barrel, now make sure it wont close on the No Go gage. Now you can assemble the rest of gun, and go shoot. Something real similar worked for Rhineland Arms for several years. As far as I know there will be no extra charge from Shaw for the longer thread shank(there isn't on the lLS turks) Talk to Chris_drawing a blank here_Murry I believe?? About 160.00 to your door. Scot

[Larry Gibson]

I have rebarreled many Mausers over the years including cutting threads. You are indeed under shopped for that, especially if you want to make a barrel nut also. I have rebarreled 3 SR M91 Mausers and a Mexican M98 SR Mauser to .35 Remington. It was relatively painless to do with the Shilen 26" contoured, pre-threaded and short chambered for SR Mausers. These are available from Brownells. They might seem spendy at first but once you start farming out barrel work they won't seem so spendy at all. The nice thing about them is you could easily set the shoulder back with your lathe. The shanks are of M93/96 Mauser length and the M91 requires a longer shank. Makes for easy fitting to the action. I'm not sure why you want to add a barrel nut to a SR Mauser but I didn't. I have my own reamer but you can rent one to finnish ream for a nominal fee from several places. I simply used 3 once fired and then full length sized cases to headspace with. I finish ream so I can just feel the bolt close on those cases. All factory ammo slides into the chamber without problem.

The only other thing necessary for the M91 is to epoxy/solder a small shoulder inside on each side of the single stack magazine to hold the shorter .35 Rem cartridges to the rear. They are placed where the shoulder of the bottom 4 cases are when to the rear of the magazine. They stop one cartridge thickness below the magazine lips so the top cartridge will feed forward. Before attempting the conversion on a M93/M95/or M96 try feeding some .35 remmington cartridges through the action to make sure they don't prematurely pop out of the action, especiall on the left side. Not always a problem but it can be. Also confirm that the extractor will hold the case tightly in the bolt face during extraction. If the case falls out the bottom of the bolt face during extraction a new extractor may be required. That is not a problem with the M91 as the bolt face surround the casr rim and the extractor always has enough grasp, at least on all that I have checked.

Converting a SR Mauser, especialy the M91, is a very worthwhile conversion. This is particularly the case if shooting cast bullets comes to mind. All the conversions i have done are excellent shooters. Two of us use cast bullets and mine is very accurate with the RCBS 35-200-FN being my favorite hunting bullet. This last November I killed a very nice 8 point buck down Texas way with it and that RCBS cast bullet. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.

Larry Gibson

[swheeler]

Bill; wanted to add I really like the idea of a switch barrel mauser, neat.

[Buckshot]

..............First of all thanks for finally posting :-) How's it feel? Secondly my apologies for the rather poor photo's. A long ago 1st gen digital and it's software.

http://www.fototime.com/89E2F2C1A9E4DC7/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/8A4CCD7559D0176/standard.jpg

I built a 35 Rem on a M1894 Brazilian SR Mauser action (made by FN) with a 16" twist. I'm not much for plastic stocks but this deal was on the cheap and CDNN or a similar place had the RamLine stocks on closeout for $39. It also wears the least expensive Williams sight available.

http://www.fototime.com/DA9985F72A3A411/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/AEC40C4BAA66E93/standard.jpg

The front sight was a Rem 700 ramp out of the junk box. A filler block in the magazine and shortening the follower might be benificial but I haven't had any problems with it, and did no alterations to the bolt, extractor or ejector.

http://www.fototime.com/9CC47DFE32D45C6/standard.jpg

These are some 50 yard 5 shot groups shot with the 200gr Saeco (shown loaded on the follower in above pic) and using surplus WC846 ball powder.

http://www.fototime.com/347AB486CF7FA9E/standard.jpg

A few 'fooling around' light loads. Didn't like that smallish 9mm boolit too much. I size to .359" and the 9mm slug just made .357".

..............Buckshot

[deltaenterprizes]

deltaenterprizes,

Do you have something against this fellow doing a rifle project? I can understand advice to keep him out of legal problems, but it's almost as if you don't want him to do it. Everyone has to start somewhere.

We're not talking about a bench rest rifle. He probably wants a 35 Rem to shoot cast and deer hunt. You don't have to do all that stuff you mentioned except with for the head space gauges. With pre-threaded barrels you even have to do less, providing he can find one in 35 Rem for a small ring mauser. I know where he can get, but it doesn't sound like it would be in his price range. A short chambered Mauser barrel isn't out of the realm of the do it yourself. You can rent the finish reamer and ream the final portion by hand and often checking with the go gauge.

Or are you trying to show off your gunsmithing prowlness?

Joe:mrgreen:

I am trying to make him understand the seriousness of the project and the potential dangers of it not being done right to himself and others in the area. Doing things "cheap" usually involves cutting corners that create dangerous conditions.Do it right regardless of the cost.
Guns have a bad habit of going boom and throwing shrapnel when not put together properly.
Also small ring Mausers do not have the gas venting features of the 98 in case of a ruptured primer or case failure.
Reading a book or two or renting a video to get some idea of what is involved would be a good start. A mentor would even better.
I screwed up a $300 Hart barrel on my first attempt because I didn't set the lathe for the right thread pitch! I recently figured out that the bedding block in the H-S Precision stock is crooked causing the action to only have 25% contact making the thing shoot 1 1/2'' group @ 100 yards! Bedding the action solved the problem.
That little mistake setting the levers on the lathe made me build another rifle on an Turkish Mauser action costing another couple hundred.
"Show off my gunsmithing prowness"? Hell no, I am trying to help him avoid the costly mistakes I have made! With the time and money I spent on machinery and tooling I could have a safe full of pretty rifles and a lot less grey hair!
I want this gentleman to learn from my mistakes and the mistakes of others and take the time and spend the money to do it right so in the end he has a safe rifle that shoots good too.
I think that first rifle has only cost me about $10,000.

[bstarling]

I am trying to make him understand the seriousness of the project and the potential dangers of it not being done right to himself and others in the area.
Guns have a bad habit of going boom and throwing shrapnel when not put together properly.

Delta, I appreciate your concern. I understand that these boards are read by all sorts of folks, some of which may not quite be up to the task of driving a nail. I want to assure you that no offense is taken to your comments. I do, however, have considerable experience in working with tools and completely understand the inherent dangers of 40,000 psi gas. I will sincerely appreciate any useful ideas you may be able to share with me.

Many thanks, Bill :drinks:

[swheeler]

"I am thinking that to confuse it even more I might like to do it with a barrel nut for a change barrel set up." by bstarling (AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE-DO YOU WANT SWITCH BARREL OR NOT)

With your mini lathe you can make the barrel nut, I think you are "undertooled" for the rest, ER SHAW.

[deltaenterprizes]

Thank you, I am just trying to get you to think before you act. Jerry Kunhousen(sp) has a good book on gunsmithing Mausers and another informative book is "Bolt Action Rifles" by Frank De Hass. He goes into the development of bolt guns from their inception to modern day designs. Steve Acker has some good information available and I think Technical Video has some American Gunsmithing Institute videos available for rent.
I have known a few excellent gunsmiths, most were machinists and wish I had been able to spend more time with them to learn more but most of them have passed on a long time now. The couple that are still around are 400 miles away.
I was lucky that my machinist teacher, my mentor, is an excellent gunsmith and benchrest shooter. He taught me how to headspace bolt action rifles on a VZ24 Mauser 98.
We have become good friends and I can call him and pick his brain. He gave me a P&W Model "B" for a graduation present
A good site I found is called "Turkmain", it has info on barreling K.Kale Turkish Mausers that have small ring barrel shanks.
You have to strip the bolt when you are head spacing he chamber and let the weight of the handle cause it to close. Shaw makes the A&B barrels for Midway and a prethreaded short chambered barrel is the way to go for your first project. Mine was an A&B SS fluted varmint weight in a Fajen Ace Varminter stock.

[Willbird]

I say "screw the barrel nut". The bbl nut is only there to make a production mfg process easier. Or to allow you to order a bbl from some gun in OH and screw it on your rifle in AK and adjust the headspace.

If you do good work you will not need or want a barrel nut unless you wanted to use the same barrel on several different actions (and did not want to take the time to make the actions all the same).

The barrel nut is just a shortcut to doing a proper job.

Bill

[StarMetal]

I am trying to make him understand the seriousness of the project and the potential dangers of it not being done right to himself and others in the area. Doing things "cheap" usually involves cutting corners that create dangerous conditions.Do it right regardless of the cost.
Guns have a bad habit of going boom and throwing shrapnel when not put together properly.
Also small ring Mausers do not have the gas venting features of the 98 in case of a ruptured primer or case failure.
Reading a book or two or renting a video to get some idea of what is involved would be a good start. A mentor would even better.
I screwed up a $300 Hart barrel on my first attempt because I didn't set the lathe for the right thread pitch! I recently figured out that the bedding block in the H-S Precision stock is crooked causing the action to only have 25% contact making the thing shoot 1 1/2'' group @ 100 yards! Bedding the action solved the problem.
That little mistake setting the levers on the lathe made me build another rifle on an Turkish Mauser action costing another couple hundred.
"Show off my gunsmithing prowness"? Hell no, I am trying to help him avoid the costly mistakes I have made! With the time and money I spent on machinery and tooling I could have a safe full of pretty rifles and a lot less grey hair!
I want this gentleman to learn from my mistakes and the mistakes of others and take the time and spend the money to do it right so in the end he has a safe rifle that shoots good too.
I think that first rifle has only cost me about $10,000.

Ok..good...we're on the same page then.

Joe

[swheeler]

"Shaw makes the A&B barrels for Midway and a prethreaded short chambered barrel is the way to go for your first project." quote by Deltaenterprizes

Not true as far as I know, Battenfield Technologies ACTUALLY makes the barrels, unless you have some insider information

[StarMetal]

I say "screw the barrel nut". The bbl nut is only there to make a production mfg process easier. Or to allow you to order a bbl from some gun in OH and screw it on your rifle in AK and adjust the headspace.

If you do good work you will not need or want a barrel nut unless you wanted to use the same barrel on several different actions (and did not want to take the time to make the actions all the same).

The barrel nut is just a shortcut to doing a proper job.

Bill

.................and the Savage barrel nut system shoots a heck of a lot better then most regular barrel systems. I don't know about aiding faster production, if anything it cost them more money having to make the nuts.

Joe

[swheeler]

I say "screw the barrel nut". The bbl nut is only there to make a production mfg process easier. Or to allow you to order a bbl from some gun in OH and screw it on your rifle in AK and adjust the headspace.

If you do good work you will not need or want a barrel nut unless you wanted to use the same barrel on several different actions (and did not want to take the time to make the actions all the same).

The barrel nut is just a shortcut to doing a proper job.

Bill

The guy said he wanted a SWITCH BARREL gun in the first post. Savage, and a lot of Savage shooters, may argue your last sentence.

[StarMetal]

..............First of all thanks for finally posting :-) How's it feel? Secondly my apologies for the rather poor photo's. A long ago 1st gen digital and it's software.

http://www.fototime.com/89E2F2C1A9E4DC7/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/8A4CCD7559D0176/standard.jpg

I built a 35 Rem on a M1894 Brazilian SR Mauser action (made by FN) with a 16" twist. I'm not much for plastic stocks but this deal was on the cheap and CDNN or a similar place had the RamLine stocks on closeout for $39. It also wears the least expensive Williams sight available.

http://www.fototime.com/DA9985F72A3A411/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/AEC40C4BAA66E93/standard.jpg

The front sight was a Rem 700 ramp out of the junk box. A filler block in the magazine and shortening the follower might be benificial but I haven't had any problems with it, and did no alterations to the bolt, extractor or ejector.

http://www.fototime.com/9CC47DFE32D45C6/standard.jpg

These are some 50 yard 5 shot groups shot with the 200gr Saeco (shown loaded on the follower in above pic) and using surplus WC846 ball powder.

http://www.fototime.com/347AB486CF7FA9E/standard.jpg

A few 'fooling around' light loads. Didn't like that smallish 9mm boolit too much. I size to .359" and the 9mm slug just made .357".

..............Buckshot

Rick,

Nice job! I don't like plastic stocks either but I put one on my 6.5x54MS Savage cause it was dirt cheap...but they sure have lots of advantages.

Joe

[swheeler]

"I screwed up a $300 Hart barrel on my first attempt because I didn't set the lathe for the right thread pitch!" by deltaenterprizes

I still shoot my first, from 17 years ago, a Wilson contoured blank for 60.00. Even though it cost so little compared to yours I made sure everything was correct, measure twice-cut once.

[bstarling]

WOW! I never dreamed that I would get such a response. This is very encouraging to me. Oh, regarding the grey hair, I already have a head full of it, so a few more hopefully won't kill me. Please everyone keep the ideas coming in. I can see for sure I'm not the first to consider something like this.

On the barrel nut deal, I am thinking about doing it just to do it. That is not required by any means, just a learning experience. I don't think using a short chambered barrel and a finishing reamer would be too much of a task to get it right. I learned a long time ago that you better measure at least twice and cut once. It is by far easier to take it off than it is to put it back if you over cut.

Thanks to all, Bill

[swheeler]

WOW! I never dreamed that I would get such a response. This is very encouraging to me. Oh, regarding the grey hair, I already have a head full of it, so a few more hopefully won't kill me. Please everyone keep the ideas coming in. I can see for sure I'm not the first to consider something like this.

On the barrel nut deal, I am thinking about doing it just to do it. That is not required by any means, just a learning experience. I don't think using a short chambered barrel and a finishing reamer would be too much of a task to get it right. I learned a long time ago that you better measure at least twice and cut once. It is by far easier to take it off than it is to put it back if you over cut.

Thanks to all, Bill

Bill: I really like your switch barrel idea! Finn Aagard(believe it was Finn) had a write up and a bunch of photos of one many years ago, beautiful set up, quick detach forearm too and spanner wrench whole thing was set to switch in field or camp. You could also google Rhineland arms, they sold nutted barrel set ups for LR-SR mausers and SMLE rifles- they were ER SHAW barrels on their kits. Sounds like it is time for you to get an action- or do you have it, that's where to start. Nowdays you can rent about every tool you'll need, didn't used to be that way. Stick with your original plan about the barrel nut- we want to see pictures! Scot

[deltaenterprizes]

"I screwed up a $300 Hart barrel on my first attempt because I didn't set the lathe for the right thread pitch!" by deltaenterprizes

I still shoot my first, from 17 years ago, a Wilson contoured blank for 60.00. Even though it cost so little compared to yours I made sure everything was correct, measure twice-cut once.

This project was the first attempt at machining after a long year long illness and a mind still full of cobwebs from large doses of strong medication that caused short term memory loss, and it ain't much better now. Best part of the whole story is I remembered (wrongly) that a Remington 700 action was 20 TPI and set the lathe to cut 28 TPI and could not figure out why I could not get the action to even attempt to start threading on the barrel! Dazed and confused,
Research led me to find out that a small ring Mauser uses a barrel shank diameter of .985" and my screwed up barrel shank had enough metal left to clean up to that diameter. Further research led me to find out about K.Kale Turkish Mauser actions, made in the 1940s, being a 98 large ring action with a small ring bore and thread and having the benefit of having better metallurgy than in late 1890s when a lot of the small ring Mausers were manufactured. There is more to this story, but it all worked out in the end.

[StarMetal]

This project was the first attempt at machining after a long year long illness and a mind still full of cobwebs from large doses of strong medication that caused short term memory loss, and it ain't much better now. Best part of the whole story is I remembered (wrongly) that a Remington 700 action was 20 TPI and set the lathe to cut 28 TPI and could not figure out why I could not get the action to even attempt to start threading on the barrel! Dazed and confused,
Research led me to find out that a small ring Mauser uses a barrel shank diameter of .985" and my screwed up barrel shank had enough metal left to clean up to that diameter. Further research led me to find out about K.Kale Turkish Mauser actions, made in the 1940s, being a 98 large ring action with a small ring bore and thread and having the benefit of having better metallurgy than in late 1890s when a lot of the small ring Mausers were manufactured. There is more to this story, but it all worked out in the end.

Sorry to hear about your past illness, but common sense would tell you (for one thing) not to run a dangerous piece of machinery like a lathe when you're mind and body aren't up to full capacity. Medications that can effect you say this on the bottle. If you couldn't wait to do the project you should have had someone there to help you and double check you. Now I wonder when you did get that barrel on another action how safe your reloads were under your condition.

Joe

[deltaenterprizes]

No reloads, I was using factory ammo at the time. Medicine had been stopped for over a month. It was a short trip from the house to the garage and my new to me lathe had different type of settings for pitch settings one lever was one notch off. I now write everything down and take drawing with me to the machine. If you have never made a mistake machining you are not doing any work.
One shop I worked in the bosses son made a beautiful brass 3/4'' acme thread valve stem, problem it was right hand thread and it needed to be left hand thread, lucky they has ordered twice as much material as needed. We used the bad one for a hammer to true work in the chuck.

[StarMetal]

No reloads, I was using factory ammo at the time. Medicine had been stopped for over a month. It was a short trip from the house to the garage and my new to me lathe had different type of settings for pitch settings one lever was one notch off. I now write everything down and take drawing with me to the machine. If you have never made a mistake machining you are not doing any work.
One shop I worked in the bosses son made a beautiful brass 3/4'' acme thread valve stem, problem it was right hand thread and it needed to be left hand thread, lucky they has ordered twice as much material as needed. We used the bad one for a hammer to true work in the chuck.

I would have become more familiar with the new lathe before tackling a serious job. I wish you the best and hope illness has cleared up totally and your mine is clear. Stay healthy and happy machining.

Joe

[dubber123]

[QUOTE=deltaenterprizes;767477]If you have never made a mistake machining you are not doing any work.


No truer words ever spoken than those right there...

[bstarling]

Bill: I really like your switch barrel idea! Finn Aagard(believe it was Finn) had a write up and a bunch of photos of one many years ago, beautiful set up, quick detach forearm too and spanner wrench whole thing was set to switch in field or camp. You could also google Rhineland arms, they sold nutted barrel set ups for LR-SR mausers and SMLE rifles- they were ER SHAW barrels on their kits. Sounds like it is time for you to get an action- or do you have it, that's where to start. Nowdays you can rent about every tool you'll need, didn't used to be that way. Stick with your original plan about the barrel nut- we want to see pictures! Scot

I have an action on a Spanish M93 Oviedo 7 x 57, but hate to do in the barrel. The rifle is a real shooter with a nice sharp shiny bore. It will do 1MOA in the hands of someone more steady than I. A friend of mine shot it last week and was shocked how well it shot. I guess, I'll be looking into getting another action since this seems to be coming together.

I went on the Rhineland site and only saw some 45 ACP conversions. I have sent them an e-mail about suppling a 35 Rem set up. I'll have to wait and see. I will definitely plan this project out before I spend my retirement check on it.

Thanks,

Bill

[atr]

Bill,,,
I have a M93 Oviedo in 7x57 also,,,,and I want to get rid of that barrel.....its a terrible shooter
I think you are very lucky to have one that shoots as accurately as you say.....
But,
This thread for the 35 Rem. has me intrigued, and Im thinking about converting my M93 to this caliber

[bstarling]

Bill,,,
I have a M93 Oviedo in 7x57 also,,,,and I want to get rid of that barrel.....its a terrible shooter
I think you are very lucky to have one that shoots as accurately as you say.....
But,
This thread for the 35 Rem. has me intrigued, and Im thinking about converting my M93 to this caliber

ATR,

Jump on in. The more comment we get here the better the outcome of the conversion. I am more determined than ever to make this thing work, barrel nut and all. I may even break down and buy a more expensive barrel that is more or less ready to go. That would be better than making a mess out of the job with my small lathe and having to pay to fix my screw up. I don't think the barrel nut would present any problem on my setup though.


Bill

[StarMetal]

ATR,

Jump on in. The more comment we get here the better the outcome of the conversion. I am more determined than ever to make this thing work, barrel nut and all. I may even break down and buy a more expensive barrel that is more or less ready to go. That would be better than making a mess out of the job with my small lathe and having to pay to fix my screw up. I don't think the barrel nut would present any problem on my setup though.


Bill

Bill,

Be aware that Mausers that have the inner collar have that breech torqued on that collar. With the barrel nut you will have to screw it into the collar at least just snug, then tighten the nut. I would then prefer a barrel where the chamber is just short of fully cut and then finish ream it to the fit of the go and no go gauges.

About the nut. You thinking about making the nut a hex nut? Very unattractive if you do. If you're going to make it the Savage style then you're talking machining it, including the slots for the wrench, and inside threading. I wouldn't get carried away with the torque. According to Savage and one of the top savage builders in the country you can torque it just snug if not swapping barrels out all the time, to torquing it to about 35-40 pounds if you intend barrel swapping.



Joe

[deltaenterprizes]

I don't know how old you are, but this is what you have to look forward to, and its gets worse as you get older. When I was a kid we laughed at my grandparents when they couldn't remember where they put something, but now I understand why I was taught "a place for everything and everything in it's place". Mistakes happen,that is how 90% of us got here.

[deltaenterprizes]

The nut could be made with two flats and oriented where the flats were on the side and the radii are on the top and bottom to give a pleasant appearance.

[bob208]

i did some 95 actions many years ago. they made into nice .35 cal rifles. it was no big deal got prethreaded short chambered barrels. i mite have gotten them from numrich. did most of the work by hand and my 12" craftsman lathe.

i will say you do need a better lathe. a 9" southbend at the least. a 13" would be better.

[bstarling]

The nut could be made with two flats and oriented where the flats were on the side and the radii are on the top and bottom to give a pleasant appearance.

Delta,

That sounds like a good idea on the nut. By the way, I am very familiar with the CRS syndrome. I'm 61 and it has set in I'm afraid. I have had my share of screw ups when working on things. Here lately I spend more time looking for the tool I just put down somewhere than I do working with it.

Bill

[swheeler]

I have an action on a Spanish M93 Oviedo 7 x 57, but hate to do in the barrel. The rifle is a real shooter with a nice sharp shiny bore. It will do 1MOA in the hands of someone more steady than I. A friend of mine shot it last week and was shocked how well it shot. I guess, I'll be looking into getting another action since this seems to be coming together.

I went on the Rhineland site and only saw some 45 ACP conversions. I have sent them an e-mail about suppling a 35 Rem set up. I'll have to wait and see. I will definitely plan this project out before I spend my retirement check on it.

Thanks,

Bill

Yes the Rhineland conversions were for 45ACP and 45 win mag, The barrel nut for headspacing was what I wanted you to look at. Your M93 action will work just fine for a barrel nut set up, barrel torques against front of reciever ring. You don't want a short chambered barrel, unless you WANT to buy or rent a 35Rem finish reamer, and you don't want a deep chambered barrel unless you WANT to face off the breech to achieve .100" protrusion(use this terminology and any gunsmith/barrel maker will get your drift). Personally I would just have it reamed that way and while they were at it I would have the shank and threads made long enough to accept your barrel nut, Unless you just wanted to do it ALLyourself which is fine too, but methinks your are a little under gunned with the mini lathe. Don't give up on your ideas, nut or no nut have fun.

[StarMetal]

Delta,

That sounds like a good idea on the nut. By the way, I am very familiar with the CRS syndrome. I'm 61 and it has set in I'm afraid. I have had my share of screw ups when working on things. Here lately I spend more time looking for the tool I just put down somewhere than I do working with it.

Bill

Another even more attractive barrel nut is the new Savage nut which is smooth all the way around. It has a hole in it which fits to a spanner wrench. Savage has the nut timed so it's inside the stock.

Joe

[deltaenterprizes]

[QUOTE=bstarling;767693]Delta,

Here lately I spend more time looking for the tool I just put down somewhere than I do working with it.

I have that exact same problem and it happens while I am standing in front of the lathe or mill and have not moved a step! It takes forever to get anything done, always looking for my tools.
CRS, I couldn't remember that! I was told that when you get old memory is the second thing to go, I can't remember the first!
Sad thing is I am only 54.

[atr]

I would not go the exchangeable barrel route myself......stick with the one caliber and perfect it.....
but I am very interested in converting that M93 of mine to a 35 Rem....
can anyone recommend a gunsmith ...hopefully in the seattle/tacoma area?
I dont have the tools to do this conversion myself and I think some of the posts on this thread are correct when they say that the job must be done be someone with experience and the proper tools.
this has been a very interesting thread. Before this thread I was thinking of converting my M93 toa a 6.5x55 but the 35 Rem sounds MUCH more interesting

atr

[bstarling]

"another even more attractive barrel nut is the new Savage nut which is smooth all the way around. It has a hole in it which fits to a spanner wrench. Savage has the nut timed so it's inside the stock."

Joe

I just went a took a look at my Mossberg ATR, which is also a very accurate rifle. It has a barrel nut just like the one you described for the new Savage. That is a really smoothly fitted nut and you have to look closely to tell it's a nut and not the shoulder of the barrel.

This whole thing is becoming more and more clear in my mind.

Thanks, Bill

[swheeler]

Now all you have to do is make a list of your switch barrel caliber choices, then start adding them! 300 Savage, 257 Rob,6.5x55,250 Sav, 7x57 this will be fun, and expensive-ha

[Willbird]

.................and the Savage barrel nut system shoots a heck of a lot better then most regular barrel systems. I don't know about aiding faster production, if anything it cost them more money having to make the nuts.

Joe


The barrel nut in NO WAY helps with accuracy.

I DO KNOW about aiding faster production. If you use a nut you can slap the chambers in + - .005 for depth, then use the nut to set the headspace.

A SWITCH BARREL rifle does NOT need a nut, unless your going to use the barrels on more than one receiver.

If things are done properly there is no need to "adjust" things..........they are right when the bbl is tightened against it's shoulder.

If I ever had a savage, when I rebarreled it I would take the stupid nut out and SHOOT it with my new bbl once I had the gun sighted in, the new bbl would have no nut, it would not need one, the bbl would be fit right in the first place.

Bill

[Larry Gibson]

I would not go the exchangeable barrel route myself......stick with the one caliber and perfect it.....
but I am very interested in converting that M93 of mine to a 35 Rem....
can anyone recommend a gunsmith ...hopefully in the seattle/tacoma area?
I dont have the tools to do this conversion myself and I think some of the posts on this thread are correct when they say that the job must be done be someone with experience and the proper tools.
this has been a very interesting thread. Before this thread I was thinking of converting my M93 toa a 6.5x55 but the 35 Rem sounds MUCH more interesting

atr

If you get a pre-threaded and short chambered barrel I can help you. I have all the equipment necessary including a very good finish reamer. As long as I don't charge you for the work I don't need an FFL. I live in University Place so we could spend an enjoyable afternoon rebarreling your rifle.

Larry Gibson

[Willbird]

If you get a pre-threaded and short chambered barrel I can help you. I have all the equipment necessary including a very good finish reamer. As long as I don't charge you for the work I don't need an FFL. I live in University Place so we could spend an enjoyable afternoon rebarreling your rifle.

Larry Gibson


Actually you can charge all you want, just don't keep the action over night :-).


Bill

[bstarling]

I am overwhelmed with all of the helpful advise I am receiving. There is a wealth of knowledge on this board and I intend to use it fully. There's a couple of gun shows over my way in the near future. I'll be at them looking for a donor action and then the fun will begin! I have a line on a 98 right now, not 100% sure it is available but also not sure I want a 98. I sort of have my heart set on doing this as a 91-96 project. I'm afraid if I go with a 98, I'll be tempted to go with something that will kick hell out of my worn out old shoulder and put me out of commission for a while. I've been there done that and it's not fun. I know if I went w/ a 98 I'd think about a 35 Whelen I'd load it up to hot for the old bones and be sorry.

Thanks all,

Bill:D

[swheeler]

I am overwhelmed with all of the helpful advise I am receiving. There is a wealth of knowledge on this board and I intend to use it fully. There's a couple of gun shows over my way in the near future. I'll be at them looking for a donor action and then the fun will begin! I have a line on a 98 right now, not 100% sure it is available but also not sure I want a 98. I sort of have my heart set on doing this as a 91-96 project. I'm afraid if I go with a 98, I'll be tempted to go with something that will kick hell out of my worn out old shoulder and put me out of commission for a while. I've been there done that and it's not fun. I know if I went w/ a 98 I'd think about a 35 Whelen I'd load it up to hot for the old bones and be sorry.

Thanks all,

Bill:D

Bill; stick to your original idea of a nutted switch barrel mauser! Heck everybody and their nephew has done a prefit short chambered mauser(cheap-fast-easy) we've seen enough of those! Walk to the beat of a different drummer and TAKE PICTURES!

[scrapcan]

I had always wondered about using a milled slot in barrel shank and a spanner fit to it. Fit the barrel as normal and use the spanner to switch barrels. You could make barrels the same contour and bed the rifle by filling the slot with silly putty/modelers clay.

Or you could make flat on bottom of barrel once setup and a witness mark on top. And use a wrench that slips over the barrel with a matching flat. That wrench could be easily made. Use a lathe turned bore the same as the barrel, then grind one side down and use a piece of heavy strap/swuare bar stock to make the handle. To take barrel off all you would have to do is turn teh wrench around and use your acton vise. If you are nto torqueing highly you can make the action wrench in a similar fashion.

How much torque is to be used on the savage nut?

[StarMetal]

I had always wondered about using a milled slot in barrel shank and a spanner fit to it. Fit the barrel as normal and use the spanner to switch barrels. You could make barrels the same contour and bed the rifle by filling the slot with silly putty/modelers clay.

Or you could make flat on bottom of barrel once setup and a witness mark on top. And use a wrench that slips over the barrel with a matching flat. That wrench could be easily made. Use a lathe turned bore the same as the barrel, then grind one side down and use a piece of heavy strap/swuare bar stock to make the handle. To take barrel off all you would have to do is turn teh wrench around and use your acton vise. If you are nto torqueing highly you can make the action wrench in a similar fashion.

How much torque is to be used on the savage nut?

The top Savage smith (recommended by Savage themselves) said just snug if you're not switching barrel and up to 40 pounds if you plan on switching off and on.

Joe

[Dutchman]

Buckshot & LarryG

Are there any bolt face or extractor mods required for the .35 Remington conversion?
I recall hearing that there were but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread.

You guys measure only twice? Sometimes I have to wait overnight before I make a cut :).


Overnight = FFL required.

Dutch

[StarMetal]

Buckshot & LarryG

Are there any bolt face or extractor mods required for the .35 Remington conversion?
I recall hearing that there were but I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread.

You guys measure only twice? Sometimes I have to wait overnight before I make a cut :).


Overnight = FFL required.

Dutch

Dutch,

On the small base Mauser what could be done to the bolt face? I mean the 35 Rem rim is smaller then anything they were made for. Larry said sometimes the extractor may not grab the rim good especially if the extractor is worn and to just replace it with a new one. Take my Savage 6.5MS. Although not a Mauser action, the bolt face is for a 308 class. I figured there's enough extractor catching the rim and the chamber centers the round so what the heck. Turns out that was right. There is an after market extractor for the Savage for the PPC class round and I could get that if needed but it's not.

Joe

[swheeler]

Bill; So I guess it is settled, SR mauser WITH barrel nut in 35 REM to start, then add other cal. I want to see pictures!

[docone31]

The Turk Mauser, K-Kale, is a large ring, small ring thread reciever.
Why not go there for the extra strength?

[atr]

the Dutchman posed a good question about the extractor,,,I was wondering that myself,,

I am also wondering if the operating pressures of the 35 Rem are within the recommended 45,000 psi pressure usually associated with the small ring Mauser actions.

Larry,,,,thanks for you offer !!!...you will be hearing from me regarding this
art

[StarMetal]

the Dutchman posed a good question about the extractor,,,I was wondering that myself,,

I am also wondering if the operating pressures of the 35 Rem are within the recommended 45,000 psi pressure usually associated with the small ring Mauser actions.

Larry,,,,thanks for you offer !!!...you will be hearing from me regarding this
art


Good question yes, but I fill it has been addressed. Larry has an operating rifle with the 35 Rem. I tried to address the question but apparently the answer didn't suit you. I do not mean that as inflammatory.

I feel the 35 Rem can operate successfully in small ring mauser and a plus is the large 35 caliber bore drops pressure fast as the bullet moves down the bore. In addition do you think that a Model 336 Marlin is stronger then a small ring mauser....I don't.

Joe

[robroy]

I'm not sayin' don't use a barrel nut. That said, when I rebarreled my savage I cut the shank long enough to accept a tubb lug and fitted it to the action without a nut. Now if I can just get done with the stock mods we'll see how well it shoots.

[Dutchman]

This is a cartridge with a medium to heavy bullet that has moderate recoil based on a moderate pressure level of 33,500 CUP as set by SAAMI.[1] The normal factory load consists of a 200 grain round-nosed bullet with a muzzle velocity between 1950 and 2100 feet per second.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.35_Remington

That's a big YES, the Swede and other small ring actions are A-ok with .35 Remington, and for that matter, .30 Remington & .32 Remington & .300 Savage ".300 Savage is set by SAAMI at 46,000 CUP". The handicap with the .300 Savage being the same short neck as the 7.65x54 Belgian/Argentine Mauser. No such handicap with the .30/.32/.35 Remington.

The extractor issue may be similar to that of the 1867 rolling block 12,7x44R Swedish when using cartridges made from .348 WCF in that the rim diameter is somewhat smaller and once in a while you accidentally slip a rim past the extractor and have to sit there for some minutes trying to extricate the stuck cartridge from behind the extractor. You'll do this only a couple times before you pay closer attention to the chambering process.

Rim diameter of .35 Remington is .458" versus .480" for the 6.5x55. .022" difference. Since I have no experience with this conversion I'll contemplate a ~possible~ solution being to open up the bolt face and soft solder a partial ring, or circle segment, of the correct size. (thinking outloud).

Interesting about the .30 Remington case head diameter of .421" and it being the parent case for the 6.8 mm Remington SPC. I'd think that would certainly require bolt face and extractor mods that may rule out this particular path. At the least you wouldn't have problems with case availability though you'd have to load to .30 Remington levels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Remington

I still think the .35 Remington route is pretty cool.

Hmmm... metallurgy of a 100 year old umpteem times fired Swedish Mauser versus a new high proof pressure Marlin 336. That might be a tougher argument than you think, Joe :).


Dutch

[StarMetal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.35_Remington

That's a big YES, the Swede and other small ring actions are A-ok with .35 Remington, and for that matter, .30 Remington & .32 Remington & .300 Savage ".300 Savage is set by SAAMI at 46,000 CUP". The handicap with the .300 Savage being the same short neck as the 7.65x54 Belgian/Argentine Mauser. No such handicap with the .30/.32/.35 Remington.

The extractor issue may be similar to that of the 1867 rolling block 12,7x44R Swedish when using cartridges made from .348 WCF in that the rim diameter is somewhat smaller and once in a while you accidentally slip a rim past the extractor and have to sit there for some minutes trying to extricate the stuck cartridge from behind the extractor. You'll do this only a couple times before you pay closer attention to the chambering process.

Rim diameter of .35 Remington is .458" versus .480" for the 6.5x55. .022" difference. Since I have no experience with this conversion I'll contemplate a ~possible~ solution being to open up the bolt face and soft solder a partial ring, or circle segment, of the correct size. (thinking outloud).

Interesting about the .30 Remington case head diameter of .421" and it being the parent case for the 6.8 mm Remington SPC. I'd think that would certainly require bolt face and extractor mods that may rule out this particular path. At the least you wouldn't have problems with case availability though you'd have to load to .30 Remington levels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Remington

I still think the .35 Remington route is pretty cool.

Hmmm... metallurgy of a 100 year old umpteem times fired Swedish Mauser versus a new high proof pressure Marlin 336. That might be a tougher argument than you think, Joe :).


Dutch

I'd put my money on the small ring beating the Marlin. The Marlin doesn't really shoot any really high pressure rounds if you think about it. Let's see how long a Marlin would hold up shooting a 308 or 243.

Depending on what small ring he goes with I think the extractor, if if in fairly good shape with get a grip on the case.

I too like the idea of the 35 Rem on a small ring.

Joe

[deltaenterprizes]

I had to play with the extractor on my Spanish Mauser converted to 7.62x39. I had to grind the part that rides in the groove in the bolt to allow it to grab the rim consistantly and relieve the back of the claw to allow for the thicker rim. I had read about it on another forum and it worked well.

[StarMetal]

I had to play with the extractor on my Spanish Mauser converted to 7.62x39. I had to grind the part that rides in the groove in the bolt to allow it to grab the rim consistantly and relieve the back of the claw to allow for the thicker rim. I had read about it on another forum and it worked well.


Big difference between the 35 Rem and the 7.62x39:
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd35remington.jpg
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd762x39.jpg

Joe

[deltaenterprizes]

I was pointing out the extractor can be modified with minor metal removal to insure reliable extraction.

[bruce drake]

I converted a Large Ring - Small Thread Turk to 7.62x39 a few years back. A new extractor from Brownells fits the rim just perfect so I don't think you'll have a problem with a 35 Rem which has a larger diameter rim. And the 7.62x39 is also about 10k more psi than the 35 Rem. If the Turk Mausers can handle the European 8mm loadings they can handle the 35 Rem cartridge.

Either a 35 Rem or 358 Win Mauser is in my future in a few years as well.

Bruce

Bruce

[deltaenterprizes]

All this talk has me considering a 35 cal rifle also, not sure which one.

[StarMetal]

I was pointing out the extractor can be modified with minor metal removal to insure reliable extraction.

.....but it doesn't need it. Give it up, the extractor will work without having to fool with it unless it's totally worn out.

Joe:bigsmyl2:

[NHlever]

Extraction has been a bit wimpy, and limp in the .35 Remington Mauser conversions I have handled. I'm certainly not saying that would always be the case. I've converted a bunch of Mausers, and understand they can be a lot more individual than you might think. I do thin that the idea of relieving the part that rides in the bolt groove is good, and I have often thought of soft soldering a shim in the bolt face. Temperatures involved in soldering get close to some heat treat temperatures though so I've always had some slight reservations about that.

Mausers are tough, and have forward locking lugs, but I have drilled, and tapped a few old Marlins for scope mounts and I have to say that they have very tough receivers. New Rugers, and all Mausers I've worked with are easier. The Marlin was chambered for the .307 Winchester, and the .375 Win. and those pressures are in line with what small ring Mausers are considered safe with so I'm kind of holding my money on that one. I do think that if things go wrong, the Mauser will probably handle things more gracefully. Feeding can be an issue with Mausers, and the .35 Rem too, so make sure you work that out before you get too involved in expensive barrels, etc.

[Tazman1602]

I'd put my money on the small ring beating the Marlin.
I too like the idea of the 35 Rem on a small ring.

Joe

+1 Joe. I know I'm a neophyte here but I know Mausers.

Lap the lugs, square up the boltface and barrel mating surfaces, get a decently chambered barrel and nothing will shoot like a Mauser larger or small for the price. I just wish I could find the cheap actions that were around ten years ago................

Art

[bstarling]

I would have never imagined this thread would have generated the amount of participation that it has. I think this speaks volumes about the caliber of people on this forum. I have gained a wealth of knowledge and have really gunned up my enthusiasm for this project. I am actively looking for a suitable action, and will let all know when I find one.

Thanks for all of the help.

Bill[smilie=w:

[Tazman1602]

I would have never imagined this thread would have generated the amount of participation that it has. I think this speaks volumes about the caliber of people on this forum. I have gained a wealth of knowledge and have really gunned up my enthusiasm for this project. I am actively looking for a suitable action, and will let all know when I find one.

Thanks for all of the help.

Bill[smilie=w:


1910 Mexican SR would be nice for that if there were any left. You know Bill, I may have an old ratty 1910 Mex that needs some work and a bolt out in my shop still. Let me know if you're interested and I'll look. I mean it's ratty too but the price would be right. Still gonna need a bolt IF I've still got it. A young gunsmith I know tried to weld on his first bolt handle to it and broke/melted the........well, I guess you get the story. Anyway if it's something might interest you get ahold of me and I'll trudge through the snow tomorrow.

Can't wait to see how it comes out. I haven't bought a short chambered pre-threaded barrel in a few years from Brownells and almost DIED when I saw the prices.

[357maximum]

All this talk has me considering a 35 cal rifle also, not sure which one.

Once you go .35 you will never go back.[smilie=w: You have been informed and warned.


Over 1/2 of my toys that require a pre loaded brass case are in 35. Your in trouble once ya stick the toe in that water.

As far as 35 cal choices.....is there a bad choice in .35??????????? NOPE


I will say that since I have my very own 35WHELEN the rest seem rather redundant, as I can load up or down to match them all. The 35Whelen does fast and accurate a little easier also....I would call it the MOST FLEXIBLE 35. I would not give up any of the other children though. The 35Rem just does what it does so nicely and rather cheaply........there is no BAD 35 choice IMHO.


DID I HELP YOUR ISSUE??????[smilie=s:

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/E937DDB87BA3853/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/30499B76EFA873D/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/8DDF21B9754E8F1/standard.jpg

Small ring (M1894 Brazilian) Mauser 7.62x39. No extractor mods done, and none required for THIS rifle. However, EJECTOR mods were done. In addition a filler piece had to be added to the follower to bias the top round over to the right more.

http://www.fototime.com/AEC40C4BAA66E93/standard.jpg

Same action, NO extractor mods required on this rifle conversion either. As mentioned in my previous post, while I've encountered no problems with feeding, extracting or ejecting, a filler block might be a good idea ............just because:mrgreen:

Not all extractors are going to grab the much smaller 7.62x39 reliably, and possibly also the 35 Rem. If they don't there are easy fixes.

..............Buckshot

[swheeler]

Rick; I really like the red in the stock, but could live without ever seeing a bolt handle like that again, Numerich Arms, I've had several of them.

[docone31]

I have one of those bolt handles, actually a complete bolt.
I like it. It is no my heavy barrel and quite easy to throw. I have very large hands, and the bent bolts are an issue for me. MY hands hit the stock and they are quite uncomfortable.

[KYCaster]

1910 Mexican SR would be nice for that if there were any left. You know Bill, I may have an old ratty 1910 Mex that needs some work and a bolt out in my shop still. Let me know if you're interested and I'll look. I mean it's ratty too but the price would be right. Still gonna need a bolt IF I've still got it. A young gunsmith I know tried to weld on his first bolt handle to it and broke/melted the........well, I guess you get the story. Anyway if it's something might interest you get ahold of me and I'll trudge through the snow tomorrow.

Can't wait to see how it comes out. I haven't bought a short chambered pre-threaded barrel in a few years from Brownells and almost DIED when I saw the prices.


Tazman, if Bill isn't interested in your Mex action, I am. I sent you a PM.

Thanks,
Jerry

[StarMetal]

Once you go .35 you will never go back.[smilie=w: You have been informed and warned.


Over 1/2 of my toys that require a pre loaded brass case are in 35. Your in trouble once ya stick the toe in that water.

As far as 35 cal choices.....is there a bad choice in .35??????????? NOPE


I will say that since I have my very own 35WHELEN the rest seem rather redundant, as I can load up or down to match them all. The 35Whelen does fast and accurate a little easier also....I would call it the MOST FLEXIBLE 35. I would not give up any of the other children though. The 35Rem just does what it does so nicely and rather cheaply........there is no BAD 35 choice IMHO.


DID I HELP YOUR ISSUE??????[smilie=s:

Mike,

I dunno.......for example I owned a 7mm Rem Mag, but I still liked my smaller 7mm's better, like the 7x57 and 7mm08...even though I could load the Mag down it wasn't the same. I do see you point though. Looks like you need a 9.3x62 now Mike. Then after you own that and think the others are redundant, buy a 375 H&H Mag.[smilie=s:

Joe

[SCHUETZENBOOMER]

Since I always choose to "be different" why not consider the 9 x 57 necked to 35cal......it's really a .35 anyway. Use a 1-14/.358 barrel.

Cases can be made from cheap 8mm brass. Rails or bolt face do not have to modified. Start reading up on the 9 x 57 and you might rethink your conversion. It's done nearly everything in every corner of this earth. It's a reloading proposition anyway, so you have full control over pressues. .35's LOVE cast boolits.

I have several Turk Lg ring/Sm thread K. Kahl trued actions that I am going to put up for sale soon. (my FFL to your's) PM if interested.

[bstarling]

I may be able to get a Swedish M96 action for my project. The problem is that it is only a stripped bolt and receiver. Can the striker and associated parts from a 93 or 95 bolt be used in the Swedish. I also would need an extractor, trigger group, ejector box, and trigger guard assembly. I've looked into some Swedish replacement parts and they are way more expensive than German or Spanish for the 93/95 series.

Oh for the days of the $25 actions!! :groner:

Bill

[Tazman1602]

I may be able to get a Swedish M96 action for my project. The problem is that it is only a stripped bolt and receiver. Can the striker and associated parts from a 93 or 95 bolt be used in the Swedish. I also would need an extractor, trigger group, ejector box, and trigger guard assembly. I've looked into some Swedish replacement parts and they are way more expensive than German or Spanish for the 93/95 series.

Oh for the days of the $25 actions!! :groner:

Bill

Bill,
A good trigger you should be able to get from Timney for $50, and GOOD LORD I just priced out those parts!!!!!!! I've paid less for entire rifles!!!! ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

"Where have all the mausers gone
LOOONNNGGG time passing......."

I'm guessing "Mauser guys" at the guns shows may be a lot cheaper IF they are still around, used to be at least three of them at the major shows in my area but man I just don't know anymore! The last extractor ring I bought still has the price on it, I just looked $.50........................

[bstarling]

I can buy a new action from lots of places for what some of these folks want for some of these Mausers. I am not going to give up, but man, I didn't want to have 500 bucks in a toy. I don't need another gun, but I really do want to do this build. I even thought about a Mosin, but that didn't make too much sense and would have taken a load of work. At the rate it is going I can buy a Savage at the pawn shop and build the 35 Rem easier than I can do the old Mauser. Trouble is that is NOT what I want too do.

Bill:violin:

[Tazman1602]

That was my way of thinking Bill, Geez I can buy a Savage used for less than a Mauser to do this with now or a used Marlin or..........take your pick. I'll keep my eyes peeled at gunshows, got a few coming up this spring and see what I can find but I don't know with what I've been seeing on the web lately.

Christmas even the old Enfield actions seem to ALL be GONE.....................wonder if this would work with a Springfield 03-A3 action, nah, that would be 35 Whelen..............

[bstarling]

I have run across a couple of possible candidates for a receiver for this project. Both are small ring 98's. One is a Mexican 1910 that has had it missing bolt replaced with an intermediate bolt. I don't know what kind, but the guy has some rifles he has built on these so I guess it works. The second is a Turkish SR 98. It has had the receiver faced to remove the lip and looks pretty good. The issue I am having is the fact that these have two torque shoulders, the "c" ring and the receiver face.

I am thinking that the inner ring will interfere with my barrel nut switch barrel idea. Is the "C" ring essential? Can it be removed without compromising the receivers strength?

Does anyone have any ideas about this?

Many thanks, Bill

[swheeler]

I WOULD NOT REMOVE it, nor would I face it off, it will not affect you one iota, PERIOD! Now if you MUST mess with it, and later want to rebarrel in the normal fashion, no big deal, but you will have to barrel in the M48 safety breech fashion with extractor cut in breech face. THIS IS NO BIG DEAL< EXCEPT YOU NEED A LATHE AND A MILL IS NICE FOR THE CUT!
You say you have the Turk action in your hand, close the bolt and look inside the rec ring, look specifically at the extractor, LIGHT COME ON FOR YOU??????????

[HangFireW8]

"Shaw makes the A&B barrels for Midway and a prethreaded short chambered barrel is the way to go for your first project." quote by Deltaenterprizes

Not true as far as I know, Battenfield Technologies ACTUALLY makes the barrels, unless you have some insider information

Battenfield Technologies is just another brand name held by Potterfield's MidwayUSA.

I don't know if it is still the case, but ER Shaw was making A&B barrels for years. I've owned both from the same era and the type and quality of rifling was identical, that is to say, adequate.

For initial horsing around on a lathe, an ER Shaw or A&B is a good choice to risk ruining, when you're ready for something accurate and not much more expensive, get a Lothar Walther or Douglas. When you really know what you are doing, or are willing to pay someone who does, then move up to the Lilja, Hart, Kreiger, MacMillan or Shilen.

When you own a barrel that breaks in with 10 shots and cleans all the (very little) copper out in ten minutes and the cotton patches go through it (when brand new) smooth as hot butter, then you'll know the difference.

I had to learn the hard way. I have lots of bucks tied up in a custom ER Shaw barreled rifle that shoots near one hole groups. I'm still waiting for it to finish breaking in and become easy to clean... maybe another 500 rounds will do it. :shock:

-HF

[swheeler]

I don't know if it is still the case, but ER Shaw was making A&B barrels for years. I've owned both from the same era and the type and quality of rifling was identical, that is to say, adequate

I don't know if this was EVER the case. I have seen it referenced many times on the internet, but that doesn't mean it is true. So until someone can give me proof, I have to say "just another cyber myth"
In an email from about a week ago Battenfeld Technologies(never heard of Battenfield Technologies) said they never heard of ER Shaw.
ER Shaw never replied to my email.
My oldest daughter was living in Columbia, Mo and going out with Midway/BT employee, when asked he told me they made the barrels themselves, there.
So I will say I have no proof that Shaw makes them. Someone on here has to live in Mo close enough for a tour, then we all could know the truth.

[swheeler]

I might add that I asked ,just recently, where someone read that A&B barrels were msade by Shaw, he replied that he read it on BT web site. I logged on to the site and read everthing, or atleast I thought I did, NOT A SINGLE WORD ABOUT ER SHAW!

I'm not from Missouri, but "SHOW ME"

[Dutchman]

I may be able to get a Swedish M96 action for my project. The problem is that it is only a stripped bolt and receiver. Can the striker and associated parts from a 93 or 95 bolt be used in the Swedish. I also would need an extractor, trigger group, ejector box, and trigger guard assembly. I've looked into some Swedish replacement parts and they are way more expensive than German or Spanish for the 93/95 series.

Oh for the days of the $25 actions!! :groner:

Bill

No other Mauser parts will fit the Swede.

Extractors are not difficult nor expensive. I can help you with the ejector box assy, triggerguard assy, guard screws, trigger & sear assy, new main spring, new unnumbered bolt sleeve, new unnumbered cocking piece. I don't have a spare firing pin or extractor I want to part with presently. Sarco may market a reproduction Swede firing pin, or so I heard.

I would suggest you get what you can from Ken Buch and what he doesn't have I may have. But the above mentioned parts I do have enough of to sell. I'll be ~gentle~ on your wallet as I can be, as well as for anybody else in this forum.
http://www.kebcollc.com/index.html

I also have m/96 stocks if you want to chop a stock into a sporter stock. I'll even cut the stock but you'll have to plug the cleaning rod hole and file-shape the front of the stock. I have beech and walnut stocks. One that needs refinishing would be perfect for a sporter. Cheaper, too.

I'll also barter parts for bullet molds or wheelweight ingots [smilie=s:.

Dutch

[bstarling]

No other Mauser parts will fit the Swede.

Extractors are not difficult nor expensive. I can help you with the ejector box assy, triggerguard assy, guard screws, trigger & sear assy, new main spring, new unnumbered bolt sleeve, new unnumbered cocking piece. I don't have a spare firing pin or extractor I want to part with presently. Sarco may market a reproduction Swede firing pin, or so I heard.

I would suggest you get what you can from Ken Buch and what he doesn't have I may have. But the above mentioned parts I do have enough of to sell. I'll be ~gentle~ on your wallet as I can be, as well as for anybody else in this forum.
http://www.kebcollc.com/index.html

I also have m/96 stocks if you want to chop a stock into a sporter stock. I'll even cut the stock but you'll have to plug the cleaning rod hole and file-shape the front of the stock. I have beech and walnut stocks. One that needs refinishing would be perfect for a sporter. Cheaper, too.

I'll also barter parts for bullet molds or wheelweight ingots [smilie=s:.

Dutch

Dutch, thanks for the offer and the web link. This project has taken a turn since I found a M98 FN 30 to work on. I was most fortunate that I was able to but it for $50. After I had looked at other sites for Swedish parts and almost fell over at the prices I got busy on another action. Look at 35 Rem Mauser Part 2 for the progress thus far.

Bill

[Dutchman]

Yeah, I saw Pt.II after I did that note.

Dutch

[acsteve]

I havent been on in a while, but I think the 35 rem on a small ring action sounds great. Happy hunting for a small ring in good condition. I would love a 35 SR in a short handy mannlicher. Will this require any boltface or extactor alteration?

[bstarling]

My project has taken a turn since I got a FN action. Now it is looking like its a 35 Whelen or a 338 Federal on a 98. But to answer your question, it looks to me as though the 35 Rem would work ok on the stock SR bolt face. I am no gunsmith by any means, but I have done a lot of research and questioning and that is the general conscience. One resource I have found helpful is Wikipedia. The have a lot of info on various cartridges with all of the dimensions. Try Googling "35 Remington dimensions"

I may well still go with that original plan if I can run across a decent SR action. I just haven't seen one yet.

Good luck if you find one, I'm sure it would be fun.

Bill

[marlinman2008]

I lucked up this weekend,im an apprentice gunsmith and I was helping my buddy this weekend parkerizing a few rifles when he asked me if i'd be interested in a Mauser 93,I said well i cant afford another rifle no time soon.He said,did i say anything about buying it?Anyways now im a prould owner of a Mauser 93 with a new barrel chambered in .35 remington.Its one of those mausers that was re-chambered during the nato era for .308 but when he got the gun the magazine hated the 7.62 (cartridges was too fat) so with a little figuring he decided to turn a new barrel in .35 and the rifle absolutely loves it.I have always loved the old remmy cartridge and cant wait to work up some loads with that cartridge using some boat-tail balistic tips.

[82nd airborne]

im 23 and ive rebarreled 3 mausers from blanks, all shot fine. id say youd be hard pressed to be more underskilled than I. You have the capapility to do the work, just think it all thru twice before turning a dial. however, the mini lathe is out of the question, if its like my grizzly of the same size, youll want that barrel choked right up to the chuck with as little as possible hanging out in the wind, which isnt possible. I hope this help, I see no need to insult anyones capabilities without knowing them. good luck with the project, im looking forward to seeing pictures.

[82nd airborne]

Delta,

Here lately I spend more time looking for the tool I just put down somewhere than I do working with it.

Bill

like looking for the safety glasses that are on top of your head for ten minutes? not much makes me feel dumber than that.

[357maximum]

I really wish you all would quit talking about bolt action 35 remmies.....you are not helping my yearning for one at all and have me looking at my SR mausers with a look they do not appreciate. [smilie=l: It is one of those odd wants on my bucket list, but my bucket is low on money at this time and you are killing me. I have a perfectly great 1951 marlin 336SC in 35 rem, but I have always wanted a SR mauser in 35R..........a condition you fellas are not helping 1 iota with.:p

[bstarling]

I lucked up this weekend,im an apprentice gunsmith and I was helping my buddy this weekend parkerizing a few rifles when he asked me if i'd be interested in a Mauser 93,I said well i cant afford another rifle no time soon.He said,did i say anything about buying it?Anyways now im a prould owner of a Mauser 93 with a new barrel chambered in .35 remington.Its one of those mausers that was re-chambered during the nato era for .308 but when he got the gun the magazine hated the 7.62 (cartridges was too fat) so with a little figuring he decided to turn a new barrel in .35 and the rifle absolutely loves it.I have always loved the old remmy cartridge and cant wait to work up some loads with that cartridge using some boat-tail balistic tips.

You have made me envious. I wound up building a FN 98 into a 35 Whelen, that I truly do love, BUT, still want the Remington 35. The Whelen can always be loaded down to the Rem specs, but it ain't the same. I knew when I did the Whelen I would load em up big, and I have. Surely the dog sized deer we have in my neck of the woods will probably be killed by the muzzle blast if the round only hits near them! All joking aside, I have found that .357/.358 handgun bullets shoot nicely in the Whelen and I am certain would in the Remington as well. I'll likely hunt with a 200 grain J-word or a cast in the 250gr range. I have to find a reasonably prices mold for some of the 250+ boolets first though.

Good luck with the new 93.

Bill

[Molly]

On the subject of wanting a switch-barrel rifle: The locking nut is the way to do it, but I don't recommend it. I've made up a couple of switch-barrel rifles, and both times, I ended up getting fond of one particular caliber, and just letting the other barrels gather dust. 'Taint worth the trouble, in my experience. Make the rifle for what you want, and make another for anything else you want.

I really like the basic idea of a 35 Rem in a bolt though. You could use 38 Spl bullets for plinking and small game, and use factory ammo for most American big game. Shoot! You could even use the plastic Speer wadcutters and shoot in the basement.

[hicard]

I have a question for all you mauser experts. I just purchased an Argentine 1891 and an 1895. The 1895 has a pitted bore and I am wondering if I can convert either rifle to a 35 Rem. I would also like to know if they are sm or large ring? I believe they are in 7.65x53mm but are not marked. I was told they were 7X57 but that is not the case.

[357maximum]

Both are small ring. The 1891 (7.65X53)is a small ring with a slightly longer threaded shank, the 95 is a normal shanked small ring...no biggie to put any small ring barrel on the 91 or the 95 for the qualified. I have a 35REM sporter on an 1891 ...you are gonna like it. Either the 95 or the 91 action would make a nice 35REM, but that 91 is ooh.... so slick.


The 7.65X53 is a great caliber in it's own right on that 91 action too...you have some decisions to make. The 1895 is most likely 7X57...or 8x57.

[hicard]

Thanks for the info 357 Maximum. I just got off the phone with my gunsmith who gave me the same info. What puzzles me is that the 1895 has a larger bore sthan the 7mm bullet as it slips right in. I guess I will have to shoot it with some 7X57's and see how they shoot.

[357maximum]

If you are checking the bore at the muzzle it could simply be cleaning rod wear....quite normal for these guns...it also quite normal for the bores/throats/chambers to be quite generous too. The 1891's can be quite big in all the same areas also. My second 1891 in 7.65X53 would almost accept an 8mm bullet.

[brstevns]

Thanks for the info 357 Maximum. I just got off the phone with my gunsmith who gave me the same info. What puzzles me is that the 1895 has a larger bore sthan the 7mm bullet as it slips right in. I guess I will have to shoot it with some 7X57's and see how they shoot.

May have a counter bore. some imports had this done. Had one that a 30cal bullet would drop in at the muzzle for the first inch. Still it was a 7x57. this was a old model 95

[nekshot]

Yup, shoot them first. If you then want to change midway or er shaw would be my next move. I would get a 35 case and check how much meat is on the extracter yet to make sure it will grap the smaller case. You can get a new extracter which is not that big of a deal if you can change it yourself.

[bstarling]

I have an Argentine 1909 in 7.65 and it is a wonderful gun. More or less an old version of a 308. You can make the brass from 8mm Mauser or 30'06 if you can't run across the real stuff. If I had the two rifles you have I would really consider keeping the 91 in 7.65 and going for the 35 rem in the 95.


FWIW, I am still looking for a decent SR receiver. I have an old Spanish 1916, but it is somewhat setback. It is also a super shooter in 7x57, though I don't shoot it much. Anyone have a 93 or 95 that wants to shuck it let me know.

Bill

[kens]

I am just now finishing up a small ring 98 converted to 7.62x39.

[kens]

Can someone say how to make a 95 or 98 mauser feed smaller diameter cartridges out of the magazine?
How do you make the mauser feed 7.62x39, or, 35rem, or other small diameter brass.?

[HangFireW8]

Can someone say how to make a 95 or 98 mauser feed smaller diameter cartridges out of the magazine?
How do you make the mauser feed 7.62x39, or, 35rem, or other small diameter brass.?

You need to narrow the opening at the top of the mag/bottom of the receiver, and maybe change the angle a bit.

Use a welder to add to the rails, file smooth and then file little by little until it feeds dummies.

Since it is a shorter cartridge you might also need to block the back of the mag and shorten the follower.

-HF

[Buckshot]

.............I have 2 altered small ring conversions I did. One was to 35 Rem and the other was 7.62x39.

http://www.fototime.com/B3E68687A5CB3CA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/A104557D374CF87/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/8DDF21B9754E8F1/standard.jpg

The above is the 7.62x39 conversion. At one time GPC offered a kit, which included a chambered barrel, a short follower & spring, and a nylon block to shorten the space in the rifle's magazine. The barrel was perfection. The mag follower was plastic (Probably from an AK magazine) with a funky long aspect coil spring. No issue with the nylon insert other then I had to drill a hole through the rear mag wall. Then run a short wood screw through it into the block to keep it from moving forward, due to recoil.

I finally ditched the plastic follower and modified a steel one. One issue with the mag blocker (and the short cartridge) is that you have to drag the empty case all the way back to the issue ejector. On occasion, due to being dragged back over the next round, the empty would fall off the bolt face to lay atop the next round in the mag. In picture 3 you can see the longer finger I welded to the ejector. The yellow piece atop the follower is a piece of brass I soldered in place, and then modified to take up the room of the smaller case OD. Didn't have to do anything to the claw of the extractor.

http://www.fototime.com/AEC40C4BAA66E93/standard.jpg

The above is the 35 Rem conversion. Both actions were 1894 Brazilian contract models made by FN. Notice that neither action has the thumb cut in the left sidewall. The 35 Rem required no mods to the ejector, extractor, the follower, or the action frame rails.

...............Buckshot

[Texas by God]

Buckshot, I love seeing your sporters. I'm currently building a 1926 vintage Oviedo 30-30 Win. Is it ok for me to pick your brain when problems arise? Surely you've done one? I'm glad to hear that x39 barrel is good because that's what I'm using. Best, Thomas.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, I love seeing your sporters. I'm currently building a 1926 vintage Oviedo 30-30 Win. Is it ok for me to pick your brain when problems arise? Surely you've done one? I'm glad to hear that x39 barrel is good because that's what I'm using. Best, Thomas.

..............Nope, haven't done a Mauser to 30-30 :-). However you'd be welcome to ask, not that I'd be able to help out. But who knows?

..............Buckshot