Doing something wrong..

[fatelk]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here, or in lubes or molds.

I just tried my first boolits from my Lee 6 cavity TL452-230-SWC molds. It was also the first time I tried the JPW with alox and mineral spirits lube.

The boolits come out of the mold about .451 at best. I tried varying the temp and a couple things. I think they're just undersized (mentioned them in another thread last week).

I mixed the lube following the thread about it, think I got it right. I applied it pretty thin, so you can barely see it; too thin??

Anyway, I only fired 16 rounds, and have never seen so much leading in a barrel. It's pretty extreme. You would think I shot dead soft lead with no lube. I'm still trying to scrape it all out.

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong here? Too little lube? Undersized crappy molds that need to be sent back?

[docone31]

Good photo. Lots of detail.
It looks like the mold is still too cool.
Also, Lee molds work best with straight wheel weight, or Lyman #2.
I have a feeling, your lead is too pure as well as still a little cool.
One of the reasons I run mine thru a sizeing die, I can make the castings consistant. Even though, I run .452, if I size .452 and one goes through without any sizeing, I can reject it to remelt later.
I might try adding more wheelweight, and heating the mold up more.

[canyon-ghost]

We just did a 9mm in chat that way, it took two coats of lube to stop the leading. I personally don't tumble lube or use LLA, using hard lubes and heat instead.

[lwknight]

Even straight wheel weights don''t have enough tin. The boolits look like they have almost no tin in the pictures. You can have antimony in the lead and make it seem hard but, you really have pure lead with antimony crystals in it. It will often lead up.

A lot of auto pistol need hard cast boolits. You really need to know your alloy to have a point of reference to work from.

[OLPDon]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here, or in lubes or molds.

I just tried my first boolits from my Lee 6 cavity TL452-230-SWC molds. It was also the first time I tried the JPW with alox and mineral spirits lube.

The boolits come out of the mold about .451 at best. I tried varying the temp and a couple things. I think they're just undersized (mentioned them in another thread last week).

I mixed the lube following the thread about it, think I got it right. I applied it pretty thin, so you can barely see it; too thin??


Any ideas what I might be doing wrong here? Too little lube? Undersized crappy molds that need to be sent back?

When ever I need to make changes to correct problems I do the easy first (which is usualy the cheapest)way to go I would try second coat of lube looks like the might be a little light. If you have a hardness tester or a friend has one that does makes life much easier. But in all cases Size Matters Most..... Seeing as how you cast the Boolits work with the Lube first.
#2 You can also play with powder wt. which if increase powder will obtruate the boolit and help with fit.
I'm sure there will be more to chime in on this.
Happy New Year
Don

[fatelk]

Dang, there's a lot more to this than I realized. Where can I get tin, other than paying $15 a pound for some solder? I do have several long 22 lb bars that I think are linotype.

I've shot thousands and thousands of cast bullets over the years with no problems, but in the past I always just used wheel weights. I think the lead I have now has a lot of range lead in it. I can't imagine that my molds are very cool. I often had to slow down and let them cool so the lead was completely solid before opening the mold.

I thought I knew a lot about casting because I'd melted an awful lot of lead over the years, using two-cavity lee molds. I'm learning just how much I don't know about the art.:???:

Added: I've been out of wheel weights for a while now, and have been unable to find more. I've looked and looked, and everywhere I check either has a story about a contract with their battery supplier that would get them in legal trouble if they sold them to me, or that EPA regulations forbid it, or they have a guy...

It looks to me that the days of cheap WW lead are over.:(

[randyrat]

That just isen't right,you have a too skinny of a bullet. Don't blame that lube, i use it all the time and it works real good with absolutly no leading. Try to bump a few bullet up in diameter with a hammer and make them fatter and see what happens. Unless you have another way to make them fatter.

[runfiverun]

i'd try the second coat of lube also.
then work on the alloy,throw some tin in there first.
if you need them to be larger an alloy with more antimony/ tin is about the best way to get a mold to pour larger.
i see you need to work on your cadence a bit too, but not bad boolits actually.
if all that fails you could lap out the mold a bit and should get another thou from it.
if you have some lino you can mess with your alloy easily enough,try 10-1 yours to it.

[gasboffer]

I have the same mold. It's not a SWC, but a TC. Don;t have leading problems in Glock 36 or DW CBOB with straight wheel weights. 4.0 Bullseye.
IHMSA70

[fatelk]

Try to bump a few bullet up in diameter with a hammer
I never thought of that. I wonder if I could figure a quick, controlled way to do that in a press.

Either way, I'll try another coat of lube as well, then I guess remelt all 500 boolits and practice a little more. I just finished scraping out the lead, literally. I tried everything I could, and finally used the end of an aluminum cleaning rod to scrape the chunks out.

I tried lapping the mold with valve grinding compound last week, but I can see that it would take a lot more grinding than I did to make much difference. I have a feeling that I'll end up doing that, or just sending the molds back to Lee.

[Gohon]

First thing I would do is stop mixing mineral spirits with the LLA. I use LLA and JPW, 75/25 respectively and the JPW if first melted in a glass container in the microwave and poured into the LLA bottle will by itself dilute the LLA down a considerable amount. But thats just me and I'n sure others will disagree.

Now having said that, I think randyrat is correct. Your bullet is to skinny and in my opinion no amount of lube is going to correct the problem. In my 45 ACP and the 45 Colt I shoot as dropped at .454 to .4545 and that's from a lee mould. This is straight WW with 2% tin added and air cooled. If I'm not mistaken the Lee moulds are cut to drop a certain size using Lyman #2 so things will vary with any alloy deviation. I don't use any of the Lee tumble lube moulds but I don't think that would make a difference. If you want to see some real leading, just try to harden those undersized bullets up and shoot them.

Might as well face it, like a lot of us out here you may have to start buying WW from a scrap dealer. It's still cheaper than buying precast from someone.

[JSnover]

After you bump one up, try tapping it through your barrel with a wooden dowel and a mallet. If you don't know your groove diameter you're sort of in the dark.
As far as Lee mold sizes, their reference metal is 10-1 lead-tin.

[mooman76]

You could beagle the mould. Also did you load and shoot right away after casting? Your bullets will grow about .001 after a week if you wait. What does your barrel slug at? A second coat could help as suggested.

[fatelk]

Please don't laugh at me too much here.. y'all are right about the molds not filling out. Not enough tin, or heat, whatever, but this whole batch goes back in the pot. I just wish I hadn't got carried away and made so many.

The micro bands are supposed to be full diameter, right? I just decided to measure the bullet diameter at the micro bands and some are as small as .447". I think I need more practice to use this mold right, and maybe add some linotype. I'll post an update when I try again.

Thanks for all the help.

[docone31]

Ah, shucks, you learn each time you fire up the pot!
Lee molds need heat. I wouldn't add tin untill after you crank it up some more.
It is a new mold also, it might take a couple of heating/cooling cycles to smooth out also.
Welcome to the club!
Some of us got so frustrated, me, we put it down for several decades.
The time is now! Take the streets! We coming out, guns blazing!
You'll get it. Especially when you do not have to do it alone.

[Echo]

One more thing, fatelk - one pound of lead-free solder from Ace Hdw will fix up 50 pounds of WW's, so if it costs $15, that's about 30 cents a pound, or less than a penny per boolit...

I bought my solder from Grainger - 10 pounds delivered for less than $90. Don't remember exactly how much...

[rhead]

I never thought of that. I wonder if I could figure a quick, controlled way to do that in a press.

Either way, I'll try another coat of lube as well, then I guess remelt all 500 boolits and practice a little more. I just finished scraping out the lead, literally. I tried everything I could, and finally used the end of an aluminum cleaning rod to scrape the chunks out.

I tried lapping the mold with valve grinding compound last week, but I can see that it would take a lot more grinding than I did to make much difference. I have a feeling that I'll end up doing that, or just sending the molds back to Lee.

If you have a slightly larger seating die for a swc and a pedestal from a Lee sizing kit you can get the controlled bump. It takes a 10 count holding the handle in place to get a consistent diameter with a 45 70 boolit in a 45acp seating die. The lead allow flows slowly but it will flow. Measure the result and make the needed adjustment to the seater. It will probably take several tries. I get the best results going a few thou over and sizing back but it will be worthwhile to check both, your mileage may vary.

[randyrat]

WAIT don't through all those back in the silver stream, that woman sitting on top of that Boolit will be upset..... You'll figure out an easy way to bump them up .001 or a .0005 and they also will grow a .0005 or .001 in a week as stated earlier.
Check them in a week or so so and you se them get fatter. May just solve your problem.

[44man]

Several things yet. I don't know what gun the boolits are shot out of. Is it a Ruger with small throats? Making the boolit larger will not help in that case.
If the gun is good then yes, the boolits are too small.
Or is it a .45 ACP?
Sorry, I did not read a previous post.
LLA is a contentious thing, some love it and have good luck but I get leading from it even with over size boolits. I use regular lube like Felix or Lar's lubes on my TL boolits.
One more thing I found with TL boolits is that too hot of a mold or lead will not fill out the tiny bands. Temperature is much more critical. I would say they are the hardest boolits to cast.
I am different so laugh if you will but I like a LOT of lube. My revolver boolits are covered in Felix, my seating die and any crimp dies need cleaned all the time and when I seat a boolit, a bunch of lube is pushed forward by the brass. I never wipe the boolits, only the brass so I can't carry any in my pockets.
My bench and press handles are always goopy. I am just sloppy! [smilie=w:
Any one of the guys here that would come and watch me would go home with pains in their sides from laughing---at least until they see the groups they can shoot with my guns. [smilie=p:
Try to take a boolit out of my boxes I store them in and you might pick up 3 or 4, they are a pile of goo! :bigsmyl2:

[WHITETAIL]

:veryconfufatelk, Welcome to the forum!:redneck:

[WHITETAIL]

:shock:Now don't fret.
The good thing that came out
of this is you lerned somthing.
And now you are going to try
to resolve it.
And remember you are not alone.
Just keep asking questions and
the people here will help.:holysheep

[fatelk]

Thanks for all the info and suggestions.

I think this batch is just going to have to go back in the pot. They are just too inconsistent, and I don't have a .452 sizing die. All that's lost is a little time, and I have plenty of that lately. I've been going back to school until uncle O can find me a job :rolleyes:, but have had several weeks off for Christmas break. High school was two decades ago, but for some reason school is a lot easier now. I didn't even know you could get a 4.2 gpa.:???:

I'll just try this again, see if I can get it right.

BTW, the gun is an old Ballestor Molina with a series 70 barrel that measures precisely .451, but I also have a Colt series 80 SS, and an old '47 Colt Commercial Government Model. After driving a bullet through the series 70 barrel, I can see that some of the bands don't even touch, definitely way too small.

[fatelk]

Well, crud. I wish I could figure this out. I've tried temperatures between 600 and 800 degrees, I've added more lino and even a little solder (a few ounces of old rosin core I had), and nothing seems to change. I've made sure my molds are plenty hot, to where there are streaks of shiny lead after I open the sprue plate. I don't know what else to try.

The boolits from this mold keep coming out out of round .450x.452 or so on the top and bottom bands, and about .447x.450 on the mini-bands in between. They are also always "frosty" looking, no matter what temp my thermometer says. Is this a hot mold thing?

For comparison, I broke out my brand new TL-356-124-TC six-cavity mold, cleaned it up good and got it up to temp for a few slugs. With the same lead and same technique, these bullets came out measuring a very nice concentric .357 on the top and bottom bands, and .355 on the mini bands between (also very concentric). They are also a very consistent 124 gr.

Are the mini bands supposed to be the same diameter? Do I have something funky in my lead perhaps? I'm getting very frustrated and am ready to chuck these .45 molds.

Added for you lead experts: does this bar look like linotype? I have several of these, they weigh 22 lbs and seem way too hard to be pure lead. This is not the stuff that I added to my pot; I was just curious.

[lwknight]

fatelk, I think you should write down exactly everything you have done while your memory is still fresh. If you add a little this and a little that, pretty soon you don't know which way to go because you don't know where you are to start with.

If you can estimate your alloy to be at least 2% tin it should cast good boolits. Lino cannot hurt your mix because the tin/antimony ratio is a constant.

If you can't get a good cast with 50/50 lino to pure lead then there is a mold problem. Molds have to be really clean and free from any oily contaminates.
I have never cast TL boolits so someone else will have to pick that part up.

[swheeler]

Yes that looks like a linotype bar, the color sure looks DARK, picture/lighting I guess. Try cleaning your mold again, use tooth brush and lighter fluyid or brakecleaner. Close the mold, swing sprue plate out of the way and hold it up to strong light checking for any gap. If you see any light look the faces of the mold over really good for lead splatter on them. Pre-heat the mold on top of the range and smoke the cavities lightly on both halves with a butane lighter. Fill the cavity closest to the sprue hinge, farthest from your handles, cut sprue and drop it. Now fill first 2 cavities and dump them, then 3-4-5 until you are filling all 6. Instead of worrying about temp reading on a thermometer just turn the pot up as high as it will go and cast . Pictures can be decieving but looks like well frosted and shiny or partly shiny bullets both, not consistant. I know that I have gotten this look from molds which I smoked to heavily before. Keep trying.

[geargnasher]

Those boolits look like you ran the gamut of temps, full-frosty to shiny. I've had trouble with a two banger version of that mould casting undersized bands, but I cured it's issues by removing the bevel base (resulting in a wider base band) and lubing the, yes, microgrooves, with Felix lube in a Lyman 450. The base and forward bands were sized .452, just under as-cast and they were shot out of a .4510 grooved barrel with no leading.

Gear

[Idahoshooter]

Ive had similar problems with a lee tl 2r 230 .452 mold. Im not sure of the alloy i was using as i had purchased ignots in a box at a garage sale...pretty soft though..could easily scratch with fingernail. I had similar problems..out of round boolits and lousy fillout. The fillout problem i solved by cranking up the heat..and stopping the practice of dropping sprues back into the pot while casting. Im guessing that dropping solidified sprues right back into the pot cooled the lead enough to affect that mold.I was also casting with 2 cavity 358 and 430 molds..would fill all three and then empty and refill in order.358 and 430 molds..no problem..but that 452 mold was all wrinkles and rounded bases. Used a smear of lyman bullet lube on mold locating pins and no more off center bullets.

[rhead]

Make sure the vent lines are clear. It sounds like there is a problem with the mold somewhere.

[gray wolf]

Am I missing something here? you say the barrel slugs at .451--well it seems that you should have a .452 bullet and the correct pressure behind it to make it obturate(bump up).
I don't understand how you could shoot .451 or smaller and not have the problem you are having. I think you are pulling your hair out for nothing. Get a mould that cast at least .454
and size them .452--.4525 and don't look back. Your lube should be fine.

GW.

[**oneshot**]

One thing I see in the pic is that the bullet bases look rounded. If that is the case, then you'll get gas cutting even if they are the right size.

[blikseme300]

oneshot, the molds used are bevel-based. I have had leading with both plain-based and bevel-based molds. The cure is almost always to use the correct size boolit, all other problems were typically wrong alloy or not enough lube.

The OP is using molds that I am familiar with. Before I switched to using my Star's I went the LLA way due to cost constraints. My experience was that these TL designs were often on the small side. Beagling and/or lapping was the ticket. I do suggest to the OP that he try one of these methods and then see how they shoot.

My 2c.

Bliksem

http://bliksemseplek.com/boolits.html

[Down South]

One thing I see in the pic is that the bullet bases look rounded. If that is the case, then you'll get gas cutting even if they are the right size.
That Lee Mould has beveled bases.

[fatelk]

OK, I'm really thinking this is an alloy issue. I cleaned out my pot completely, and filled it with 100% linotype (from that bar), then scrubbed and cleaned the heck out of my molds. These boolits are the result. They are a little more concentric, and measure .453+ top and bottom bands, and .4515 on the middle mini bands. These look like a nice usable boolit, but I hate to use pure linotype.

I emptied the lino out into ingots again, and melted more of my first alloy. The resulting boolits were more of the undersized, frosted-no-matter-what slugs.

A few questions for you experts:

Is it normal for the mini bands to be a little smaller?
What could it mean for the bullets to be frosted at any temperature?
Is it possible that I just need some more tin?


I really appreciate all you help and patience.:)

[243winxb]

You need more Antimony

[AZPaul]

I have this leading problem also.
I used a LEE bullet sizer on my LMB .401 wheel weight lead bullets just to make sure they where sized right and it shrank them down to .400 and .399.
At first I thought it was my caliper until I measured some bear creek bullets I have and they measured .401 consistently.
I sent the sizer back to LEE to get it polished out to .401
Then I moly coated them and did light coat of LLA/JW thinned with MS lube hoping it would fix any problem of being undersized and I still had so much leading I almost couldn't see my rifling in my Glock.
I have given them a second lubing to see if that helps.

[fredj338]

OK, I'm really thinking this is an alloy issue. I cleaned out my pot completely, and filled it with 100% linotype (from that bar), then scrubbed and cleaned the heck out of my molds. These boolits are the result. They are a little more concentric, and measure .453+ top and bottom bands, and .4515 on the middle mini bands. These look like a nice usable boolit, but I hate to use pure linotype.

I emptied the lino out into ingots again, and melted more of my first alloy. The resulting boolits were more of the undersized, frosted-no-matter-what slugs.

A few questions for you experts:

Is it normal for the mini bands to be a little smaller?
What could it mean for the bullets to be frosted at any temperature?
Is it possible that I just need some more tin?


I really appreciate all you help and patience.:)
Alloy greatly affects final diameter. Lee molds can be all over the place. It seems you get a good one or one that only casts the correct dia. from certain alloys.
Shrinkage - Bullet Diameter, Inches
Alloy .308 .357 .452
Linotype .002 .0025 .003
Lyman # 2 .0025 .0025 .0035
Soft Lead .0035 .004 .005
From the above two tables it can be seen that the softer the alloy and the larger diameter the bullet that more shrinkage will occur.
Lino makes great looking bullets, but expensive & maybe too hard for some shooting. I don't have issues w/ leading in the 45acp w/ lino bullets (I used to cast from lino back in the day, almost free from a local print shop) but can get equally good results w/ straight ww or even 50/50 lead/ww mix.
It's tough learning casting w/ Lee gear & even tougher w/ unknown alloy. You now know it's not the mold, at least w/ linotype. Now finding a cheaper alloy that will work is the next step. I would suggest Lyman #2 or sim. I think a 50/50 mix of lino & ww will be close.

[runfiverun]

3 parts ww's and 1 lino will give about a 1 tin 5 antimony mix.
plenty hard enough, [about 15 bhn] i would just try some more tin with the ww's first.
2% should be plenty.
i am not sure what your original alloy was/is though.

[fatelk]

I've made up my mind. I'm going to send these molds back. They are worthless to me, as they are.

I dug out a 10 pound ingot that I know was made from straight wheel weights. I melted it down and made some slugs from it. They were identical in measurements and weight to boolits made from my mystery alloy. I've used WW alloy for years with no problems. I want a mold that makes good bullets from WWs. My new 6-cavity .40 and 9mm molds work fine with the same alloy; that's what I want.

I know lapping or beagling could help, but when buying a brand new set of molds, I think I should expect a product that works without having to re-engineer it. After the hours of monkeying around I've done with these, I realize I just got a lemon. I'll send an email to Lee right now, and get these things in a box on there way back ASAP.

BTW, I thought I'd pick up some solder for the tin, but realize it's been a long time since I've bought any. $23/lb!!! I'm sure it's cheaper somewhere (didn't buy any), but that's just insane! I'm still kicking myself for missing out on 3,000 pounds of WW and babbit ingots a year or two ago. I knew an old gate guard at work who had told me he was hoarding a bunch, then I heard he was moving. I asked him if he wanted to get rid of any lead, and he told me he sold it all to the scrap yard the day before, for 15 cents a pound!

[lwknight]

Oohh the pain!!

I heard he was moving. I asked him if he wanted to get rid of any lead, and he told me he sold it all to the scrap yard the day before, for 15 cents a pound!

[acl864]

FWIW- I've got a Lee 2-cavity 358 148 gr. TL DEWC mold that has a very similar problem. Small and out of round bullets using WW Alloy. It's going back too. I'm tired of fooling around with it.

Also for cleaning a leaded barrel try wrapping strands of Chore Boy Copper scouring pads around an old brass bore brush. Use with your barrel cleaning solvent of choice. Make sure you get pure copper scouring pads. Some cheapo brands are copper coated steel.

[Jumping Frog]

I bought my solder from Grainger - 10 pounds delivered for less than $90. Don't remember exactly how much...
Grainger had solder on clearance last month. I got almost 40 lbs. for about $70. [smilie=w:

[TAWILDCATT]

I use WW and dont add anything,in the past I used backstop lead and did not add anything.I dont thin my lube and I have the SWC 200 gr.used in comp for 30 yrs.with saeco and H&G.now lee.lee molds like heat.and the bases are round so they are not filled out.also cut back on the load a gr.I use 700X with 3.6 gr.:coffee:

[fatelk]

Just an update: I sent the molds in question back to Lee, and received a new replacement yesterday, with a note saying that the ones I returned were found to indeed be undersized, and were replaced under warranty.

The bad part is that I just got done preparing the new molds, getting them up to temperature, and making some boolits. They are undersized like the others!!

You would think that they would check molds that they send out as replacements. This is going to be an expensive set of molds, with return shipping, if I ever get a set that works.


the bases are round so they are not filled out
Bevel-base. They are filled out fine.

[Bret4207]

Okay, I didn't read all the posts, but- from what I see in the pic in the opening post your mould may still be a bit oily and I think it needs more heat for better fill out. I think that's a BB design and if you have the combo of a BB, incomplete fillout and a hot load is certain to lead. Your mould will cast slightly smaller if there's oil or other gunk in the cavity. I think it's the oils gassing off making the boolit smaller. A completely filled boolit will be a littler fatter all else being equal. A hot mould (not alloy heat- mould heat- two different things) will let the boolit reach full size because the alloy will remain liquid longer allowing air to pass. It looks like you could also use a bigger sprue and a touch longer wait to fix the holes in base.

WW alloy with a tiny bit of tin will work for any non-magnum pistol application. Water quenching may be needed, but it's not a must. WW alloy also takes about 2 weeks to reach it's hardness and it'll often gain a half a thou or more over that time. Some folks say they've seen over .001 increase, but I've never seen that much. An alloy richer in antimony will tend to cast fatter than one with less Sb (antimony).

Lube...Mule Snot ( Lee Liquid Alox) can work in many guns up to and over 12-1400 fps. I have some rifles going over 1600 with zero leading using Mule Snot in a 308, but the boolit really fits good.

[243winxb]

The bad part is that I just got done preparing the new molds, getting them up to temperature, and making some boolits. They are undersized like the others!! Add antimony or linotype for a larger diameter bullet. OR
Increasing mold diameter

If you need the mold diameter of your cast bullets to be increased just slightly, there is a way to accomplish this with negligible ballistic results.

With the mold open, be sure you liberally lube the mold blocks in front of and behind the bullet cavity. Place a small section of cigarette paper or writing paper to the lubed block . This prevents it from burning.

When casting the bullet, the diameter of the bullet will be increased by the paper width. You can actually go up to about .010 before you begin to see lead flashing appear. While the bullet will be slightly "out of round", this very minimum amount will not effect accuracy or the manner in which the bullet travels through the forcing cone and barrel of your gun.
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

[Dale53]

fatelk;
What you really need here is to harden your alloy (to increase the size). Try adding your linotype to your present mix (I would start with one part linotype and eight parts present mix). That will add all of the tin you need together with some antimony. That will do two things - increase the bullet diameter and make a better alloy for your purposes. It will be easy to try and you will NOT be "working in the dark".

Let me know what happens.

I use standard lubes (Lars Carnauba Red) and a Star luber. However, a lot of people get good results with Lees liquid lube.

Just try the alloy I suggest and lube with Lee's lube. That'll not cost you anything and won't require major effort (tool changes, sizers, etc).

Dale53

[shootinxd]

You could beagle the mould. Also did you load and shoot right away after casting? Your bullets will grow about .001 after a week if you wait. What does your barrel slug at? A second coat could help as suggested.

Does this mean a person should wait 1 week before using the sizer?Sorry for the hijack but had to ask.:bigsmyl2:

[fatelk]

The leading is because the bullets were undersized, because the molds were undersized, as I wrote earlier. Tweaking with alloy and heat wouldn't fix it, unless I used pure linotype, and even then just barely.

Thank you all for the advice, but I'm not going to get that far into it. I plan on using WW alloy and not tweaking that much with alloys, temperature, etc.

I've used WW and range scrap lead for years with my old 2 cavity Lee molds and it's worked fine. The molds were very clean, and I had tried them at different temperatures. In one of the photos, some of the bullets are not that great, because the photo was of bullets cast at different temps, trying to get it right.

The point here is that the new Lee molds were DEFECTIVE (undersize), I returned them, they checked and determined that they indeed WERE defective (in writing), and sent me a replacement that is also defective.

I probably could screw around and tweak these molds and get them to work OK, but I don't think I have the time and patience that some of you guys have. I also don't think that I should settle for an out-of-spec product when I buy something brand new. I'm really unhappy with Lee right now, and think they should pay for return shipping on this second set of crappy molds.

On a positive note, I was able to pick up another 150+ lbs of odd-and-ends scrap lead a couple days ago. Melting it into ingots, I was able to determine that I've got about 60+ pounds of dead soft lead (from nasty looking old pipe rings), about 15 pounds of babbitt, and three 25 pound bricks of pretty-sure linotype. For .35/lb I guess that's OK?

[leadman]

Having spoke with Pat at Lee this week concerning and off center group buy mold I learned that they changed how they make the cavities. They no longer lath bore them but are doing it in a milling machine. Don't quite understand the process but Pat said the mold is cut when the halves are seperated with a carbide cutter.

I have the group buy mold that is off center along with a 40 cal. 175 gr. Have 2, 200gr molds that are undersize, a 429 and a 452. These are convential bullets but the centers are undersized.

The 40 casts well so I am keeping it, will send the group buy back for replacement as the bullets hang in the left side. I will lap out the other 2 myself.

[AZPaul]

One thing about this I dont think my mold was under-size. When I was sizing them I almost had to use a crowbar to get them through the sizer, I'm pretty sure my sizer was under size.

[shootinxd]

I'm just soakin it all up.I am going to load my first today.

[Tazman1602]

I know the guys here hate ebay and I'm working on a plan to get tin affordably to sell it to you guys but meanwhile this seller on ebay has treated me pretty good and the product has worked well. You only need to add about 2% tin to get the hardness you need. Also as the guys have said -- that mold is too cold. Try heating it up on a small hotplate first, 2-cavs are easy to get up to temp but I've found my big molds take a bit to heat up. $25 for two lbs of pure tin lasts a long time........about .4 (four tenths of a lb) to a 20 lb pot is all you need so that's a few pots you can get out of the two lb lot.

If you need tin, try this person and tell them I sent you:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-LB-PURE-TIN-4-LEAD-INGOTS-SOLDER-BARS-SOLDER-TIN_W0QQitemZ150407026888QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item2304f518c8

Art



Dang, there's a lot more to this than I realized. Where can I get tin, other than paying $15 a pound for some solder? I do have several long 22 lb bars that I think are linotype.

I've shot thousands and thousands of cast bullets over the years with no problems, but in the past I always just used wheel weights. I think the lead I have now has a lot of range lead in it. I can't imagine that my molds are very cool. I often had to slow down and let them cool so the lead was completely solid before opening the mold.

I thought I knew a lot about casting because I'd melted an awful lot of lead over the years, using two-cavity lee molds. I'm learning just how much I don't know about the art.:???:

Added: I've been out of wheel weights for a while now, and have been unable to find more. I've looked and looked, and everywhere I check either has a story about a contract with their battery supplier that would get them in legal trouble if they sold them to me, or that EPA regulations forbid it, or they have a guy...

It looks to me that the days of cheap WW lead are over.:(

[243winxb]

Lee does say to use 10 parts lead to 1 part tin alloy to get the correct diameter. I wonder if that would make a difference?:confused: But Lee also said bullets should drop .003" over the diameter marked on the mold. Seems very few do this:confused:http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

[fatelk]

You all keep telling me that the molds were too cold. If they get so hot that liquid lead smears across the top and the sprue takes a long time to cool, is that still too cold??

I tried every different combination of lead temp and mold temp, none producing good enough bullets except pure lino, and that just barely. Using the same technique, alloy, and temperature, my new .40 six-cavity molds cast them .004 oversize, and my new 9mm six-cavity molds throw them .001 oversize (perfect!). I'm not impressed with Lee QC right now.

I remember reading that bit in the Lee instructions 20 years ago about using 10 to 1 lead and tin. I checked the price of solder, figured they were crazy or smoking something they shouldn't, and went with whatever wheel weights I could find. It worked just fine for me through many thousands of rounds using my old molds.

[Tazman1602]

........let the sprue cool for a longer period of time man. When the mold gets TOO hot the bullets will come out looking "frosty". I usually let my sprue cool until I can see that it's no longer shiny then wait a few more seconds.

If you decide you don't want that mold give me a price quote on it and I may take it off your hands. All of my Lee molds work good and if they don't I figure out how to fix them -- don't get me wrong here, no disrespect intended, but I can buy 3-4 Lee cheapies and make them work for what one of my custom molds cost me.

I do have to admit I like my custom molds and they don't take the "tweaking" my Lee molds do, but to me that's half the fun...

Let me know and if you need me to I'll overheat a mold and post a pic of what a "frosty" bullet looks like for ya'

Art


You all keep telling me that the molds were too cold. If they get so hot that liquid lead smears across the top and the sprue takes a long time to cool, is that still too cold??

I tried every different combination of lead temp and mold temp, none producing good enough bullets except pure lino, and that just barely. Using the same technique, alloy, and temperature, my new .40 six-cavity molds cast them .004 oversize, and my new 9mm six-cavity molds throw them .001 oversize (perfect!). I'm not impressed with Lee QC right now.

I remember reading that bit in the Lee instructions 20 years ago about using 10 to 1 lead and tin. I checked the price of solder, figured they were crazy or smoking something they shouldn't, and went with whatever wheel weights I could find. It worked just fine for me through many thousands of rounds using my old molds.

[fatelk]

Sorry, I think you misunderstood. I know very well that the mold is not supposed to get that hot. I was just illustrating that I had tried everything because people kept saying that the mold needs to be hotter.

No, I won't sell these molds. I'll keep sending them back to Lee until they get me some that are in spec. Yes, I know they are cheap molds, but when I buy something new and pay a fair price, I feel that it is completely reasonable to expect that product to be within THEIR specs according to their warranty.

I don't feel that it's reasonable to have to fiddle around with something just to get it to work, just because it's cheaper than the competition.


they don't take the "tweaking" my Lee molds do, but to me that's half the fun...

I can understand that, and I think a lot of folks on this forum are like you and enjoy the challenge of tweaking something to get it right. In this case, I don't. It's not fun, and I just want to make some boolits that work.

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy a challenge now and then, and have been known to waste inordinate amounts of time tinkering with something just to prove I can, but this is a new product that I paid a new price for. I just want it to make some good boolits like it's supposed to...

[Crash_Corrigan]

I run two Lee 4-20 pots at once. One to melt ingots and that one feeds hot alloy to the other. I run the casting pot at setting 7 and that alloy is kept at 750 degrees according to my thermometer.

I never let the casting pot level get below 1/3 full as I want an even flow from the spout. I flux frequently with Pat Marlins California Flake Flux.

I use straight ww's with nothing added. I dip the Lee molds into the alloy to get them hot. I have never warped one. I use Bullshops Sprue Plate Lube as instructed and cast using Bruce B's method.

From the same mold you have my boolits measure .452 to .4535 depending on how fast I cast them. I lube with Mule Snot and JPW after sizing in a Lee push thru sizer .452. I lube the sizer with boolits dipped in warm water and dawn.

After drying they get the Mule Snot and JPW and are left to dry on waxed paper overnight on the porch. Then they are stored in airtight ammo cans or immediately assembled into rounds.

They do not lead my barrels and they are accurate and easy to make.

I agree with you on getting the correct sized molds from Lee. But it wouldn't hurt to try to beagle the mold to increase the size. However I do think that you would benefit from a cheapo Lee push thru sizer in .452 die to at least get consistent sized boolits.

[Bret4207]

Does this mean a person should wait 1 week before using the sizer?Sorry for the hijack but had to ask.:bigsmyl2:

No, size them right off and for top performance wait a couple weeks to shoot.

[Bret4207]

Fatelk- if you're getting frosty boolits and still getting incomplete fillout then either the mould is still dirty with oils or maybe your lead alloy is bad. Could be zinc. As a general rule a good hot mould that drops frosty (lightly frosted ) boolits will exhibit complete fillout. Poor fillout is usually a sign of inadequate venting (not a normal issue with Lees), cold or oily mould, cold alloy or too slow casting speed, contaminated alloy....maybe a couple things I've forgotten.