Cast .44 opinions...

[lead-1]

Looking in the Lyman cast manual at the .44 mag section they list all the loads using linotype. I have some boolits cast already using an unknown alloy but it is a 15 bhn which is closer to Lyman #2.
Do you think that 11-12 grains of Unique will be too much for a Lyman #2 or straight WW boolit without a gas check?
What do you suggest for a LEE C429-240-SWC boolit using Unique or maybe 2400 powder?
For these suggested loads do I need gas checks if they are kept below 1200 fps?

[Wally]

That is a max load---best to start with 10.0 grains and slowly work up. Uisng the Lyman 429244 gas checked mold that is similiar to the Lee 240, 11.5 grains of Unique gave me 1,250/1,190 FPS out of a Ruger Superblackhawk and a S & W Model 29 respectively--very accurate.

[lead-1]

OK, I see that 12 is max on the 240 grain boolit but when I put 11-12 range I was actually grouping 200 grain and 240 grain for a general area which 11 still may be a little high for the 200 grainer. I should have broken it down so I didn't look like a total noob, just to cast.
Wally did you use gas checks in your loads?

[Blammer]

10gr of unique should be good!
19gr of 2400 is another good combo

[beagle]

My favorite cast load for the 429421 for years was 9.2 grains of Unique because I had a Lyman rotor that dropped that weight. 9.5 grains gives me 1152 FPS out of a Ruger SBH and is plenty for loads around the place here./beagle

[runfiverun]

you don't need that hard of a lead either.
the unique load of 10 grs is about a handfull , i use 10 grs of 800-x and 19 grs of 2400 as my walk around [shoot at stuff] loads.
cast from ww's and 25% soft, air cooled.

[beagle]

I use air cooled WW alloy cut with two Lyman sized ingots of pure (almost) per pot in my RCBS Pro Melt and it does just fine.

Yeah, you don't need hard lead for pistol bullets at all./beagle

[Rocky Raab]

Just remember that what Blessed Saint Elmer called "hard cast" bullets were about BHN 12. He ran them more than a bit warm as you might recall, and had few problems.

Load to achieve about 1000 fps using Unique, 2400, Universal Clays, W231, 4756, Blue Dot, A#5 or 800X and you'll have a load that's pleasant on your end while being "modannuff" on the other.

[MtGun44]

Straight lino is definitely NOT required for 1200 or even higher velocities
with good boolit designs without GCs if they are fitted properly to the
throats and bore. Undersized lino will lead like heck in many guns where
straight air cooled wwts without GC will not lead if .001 to .002 over
throat diam in a revolver or groove diam in an autoloader. 9-10 Unique
is usually a gold standard load under a Keith .44 cast of wwts or softer.

I find no actual need that a GC boolit fills in pistols, other than papering
over proper fit and adequate lube quality and quantity. The cost and
hassle of GCs has me avoiding them and I have not had any problems at all
with full power .44 Mag, .357 Mag or (many fewer) .41 Mag loads.

All that said, there ARE some guns that will insist on leading where most others
do not. I am not sure what the issues are for certain, but it seems like
frame constrictions, bad forcing cone or just bore roughness may be the
culprit. What I have stated is true for a very large number of pistols, but
there will be exceptions. Perhaps that is the ultimate application of
pistol boolits with GCs - to stop leading on the small percentage that
defy the normal procedures.

The good news is that I don't own any of these 'bad boys' - and would
probably sell them down the road if I did.

Bill

[lead-1]

Sounding better as we go, when I looked in my Lyman book and seen every load listed Lino for the magnum I almost paniced. I will start out at 8-8 1/2 grains of Unique and go from there. I will run a few of these hard boolits and see how they do but I will probably turn them back into ingots and start over.

[mannyCA]

I use a 1/2 WW & lead mixture for all my casts and have run a 260gr GC NEI up to 1458 fps with 20 gr. of 2400. 18 gr. gave me 1268 fps from my 7 1/2" RSBH w/o any leading or pressure signs.

[fredj338]

Sounding better as we go, when I looked in my Lyman book and seen every load listed Lino for the magnum I almost paniced. I will start out at 8-81/2 grains of Unique and go from there. I will run a few of these hard boolits and see how they do but I will probably turn them back into ingots and start over.

SHoot em first, then recover them & cast your own. The ulitmate recycling program.

[Judan_454]

I use 10.5 grains of Unique with a Lee 240 grain SWC fb tumble lube out of a SuperRedhawk and SW 629 with good results.

[geargnasher]

There are a lot of things in the Lyman book, and many other books as well, that have been successfully debunked. Lyman has us using lino for anything over 1k fps and also recommends sizing TO groove diameter (maybe they think linotype is hard enough to withstand gas-cuttin) in many cases. Also, cast loads are typically anemic compared to J-words, probably because they haven't figured out how to shoot lead pistol boolits yet. Not to bag on Lyman, their books are good resources, but not "The Word" of cast boolits.

So size properly for your gun, cast with air cooled wheel weights, shoot them to 1300 fps with a GOOD lube, and be happy!

Gear

[lwknight]

Oh,!! Please. Don't waste good lino by making boolits out of it. At least cut it 50/50 with lead and thats still a 15 BH air cooled. And thats still harder than most anyone would ever need in a pistol.

[44man]

Oh,!! Please. Don't waste good lino by making boolits out of it. At least cut it 50/50 with lead and thats still a 15 BH air cooled. And thats still harder than most anyone would ever need in a pistol.
I have to agree with this. Too hard and too expensive is not good.
As you know I say to use harder as powder gets faster but there is also too hard and a lot of my shooting is based more on the alloy then the BHN numbers. I like water dropping and letting boolits age, expand and harden. My average will be 18 to 22 BHN.
My first test to see what a certain hardness does is to shoot groups at 50 yards with my revolvers. When groups can not be tightened, I make the boolits harder. If I need a softer boolit for hunting because of high velocity, (45-70) I need a gas check to tighten groups.
This is probably my most definitive test for my guns.
I never worry about leading and get none anyway with about any boolit alloy. Real soft lead is another story though.
My last test with fast powder showed around 2" to 3" groups at 25 yards and as I hardened boolits I was able to approach 1" at 50 yards.
The next thing I look for is if the rifling marks on the base are the same size as the rifling. I recover boolits and any alloy that shows land marks that are too wide on the base, the boolits will be made harder again or I go to a gas check.
Boolits too soft for the starting velocity will also skid a gas check so I don't expect them to cure the problem. A balance still needs to be reached with hardness so the check does what it is supposed to do and that is to grip the rifling and provide a seal. You need the boolit to start to spin and take the rifling before the check is reached.
The range of powder burn rates and initial starting pressures all dictate a different alloy and hardness.
Many will not agree with me and have different opinions but I find shooting, testing and inspection is the best way to see what alloy you need for the loads you want to shoot.
Anyway, if you tell me you shoot 7 gr or 10 gr of Unique, I can't tell you what hardness to shoot because it will depend on the toughness of your alloy too and how it engages the rifling.
So shoot what you have and see what it does and to prove it better, shoot a lot farther then you are used to.
I don't like to get into the hardness thing because I just can't tell you anything and feel you need to do some work.

[kingstrider]

I had over a ton of linotype and wound up selling most of it on the S&S board this year. I kept a small supply but figure 90% of what I shoot is straight WW and the other 10% is pure Pb in muzzleloaders so still haven't found a use for it yet. And most of my centerfire shooting is with .44 magnum and .357 magnum loads through a variety of revolvers and lever actions.

[Bass Ackward]

Looking in the Lyman cast manual at the .44 mag section they list all the loads using linotype. I have some boolits cast already using an unknown alloy but it is a 15 bhn which is closer to Lyman #2.
Do you think that 11-12 grains of Unique will be too much for a Lyman #2 or straight WW boolit without a gas check?
What do you suggest for a LEE C429-240-SWC boolit using Unique or maybe 2400 powder?
For these suggested loads do I need gas checks if they are kept below 1200 fps?


One quick test that has been working out very consistently for me involves the use of LLA as a secondary lube. The LLA is NOT the primary lube and because it adheres, it answers possibilities that hydraulic lube can not. Or visa verse I suppose.

It's function is a test for adequate lube at the velocity / hardness of the load I am using in a particular gun.

Once I apply the LLA, if there is no difference in group size between the LLA bullet and the uncoated loads, OR accuracy gets worse, then there is plenty of lube and chances are that load / gun combo can handle PB use at that hardness or to try a design without the check. If the accuracy of the loads improve, then lube / hardness combo is marginal WITH THAT LOAD and chances are removing the check won't work well unless you cut the charge / go to a slower powder. Remember, you will be losing lube in the amount that was in the GC groove itself.

So .... it is a quick check that can save time. Coating with LLA also can be used to determine adequate bullet hardness, bullet design, lube quality requirements, determine gun break in status or problems once you learn how to diagnose with it.

[runfiverun]

i don't like to fill the g/c area with lube and just use the regular grooves.
if i am seeing an issue down the bbl then i work on the powder, either upping the charge or going to a slower burn rate.
i save the extra lube for a last resort,if the load is showing good accuracy,and is in the velocity range i want, i try the extra lube and compare.
sometimes just lubing in front of the g/c is all i need, even in the bigger magnums.

[lead-1]

I have these boolit that I am going to try pan lubed with a Barry Darr's type lube and the gas check groove is bare. Hopefully I can go out this weekend and give them a try.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Lead-1: Don't remelt your lino boolits use them to sweetin up your soft lead by just adding a few at a time to find the hardness you want. Remelting them is just time wasted. You will probably find that 8 or 10 of them will be enough to harden up a pot of pure lead with a little antimony. Water dropping will make them hard enough for plinking and wabbit control. GCs are not need for general purpose shooting. Use them when you want to load some hot ones for larger game. I use 7.0 grs. Unique for plinking loads and small game hunting they will graph at about 750 to 800 fps out of my 6" bb. 2nd model Mod. 29 better known as the 4 screw.

[Lloyd Smale]

I would nomaly say a bullet running 15-20bhn is fine for about any handgun use. But your load kind of raises my eyebrows. 12 grains of unique is going to kick a bullet in the but fast and your probably going to want a harder alloy or a gas check if you continue to use that load. Back it off to 10 grains and i thnk youll do better with your alloy and plain based bullets. 9 would be even better.

[9.3X62AL]

I normally use half Linotype/half lead as my magnum revolver and rifle boolit alloy. I gin this up by blending those two elements, or adding foundry type 6:1 with WWs, or 4/6 Lino/WW. Results are approximately 92/6/2 alloy, sometimes called Taracorp. BHn is about 14-15.

One benefit this alloy has over WWs is its relative strength under pressure in plain-based boolit applications like the 9mm, 40 S&W, and 10mm autopistols. In my experience--and if sized properly--there is quite a bit of "cheat" in its ability to withstand pressure and not leak past boolit sidewalls and set up leading scenarios. No special lubes or double-coating, just Javelina Alox/beeswax old-school "goose grease" in the groove.

These harder alloys also get along better with autopistol feedramps than do softer WW alloys. This is much less a problem in modern pistols than in years past, since modern pistols are expected to function with hollow-point j-word bullets in place. Such was not always the case 30 years ago.

Magnum revolvers running castings past 1200-1250 get gas-check boolit designs in most cases. I don't load or shoot very many of those any more, but when I do I'll just use the copper base plates to keep life uncomplicated.

[44man]

I don't know if more Unique will boot the boolit any harder or some will burn down the bore more. Will 7 gr boot any less then 10???
I use 7 gr for my light loads but might go to 8 once in a while. These are great to 50 yards and are accurate enough for tin cans and tiny targets. Brings back the old .38 days with recoil! :bigsmyl2:

[lead-1]

Lloyd, I will be backing off to the 7 1/2- 8 1/2 range and going from there. I got to talk with a guy that shoots 9-11 bhn with 7 1/2 grains of Unique in his Redhawk with no problems.
It is interesting that when I worked up a load for my rifle with cast that it was right on the max with the Lyman book but from the sounds of things the book is way high compared to real life shooters. Even if I picked a mid range load from the book it would probably be on the high side, it sure is nice to have this forum to collect help and opinions from.