New Trail Boss Info

[KCSO]

The trail Boss page on the web site now has a formula for using T/B as a reduced charge load in all cartridges. They are also showing loads for evrything from 22-250 to 416 Magnum.

www.hodgon.com and hit Trail Boss

[swheeler]

hodgon? hodgdon.com

[Willbird]

http://www.hodgdon.com/

maybe ?

[Boz330]

I tried to find that info and had no luck.

Bob

[rugerman1]

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

[Charlie Sometimes]

Thanks- I'll check it out.
It's about time they did this.

[JesterGrin_1]

I think those loads would be great for reduced loads for young shooters. :)

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Notice they say that jacket is ok, not that I'd wanna use it, but it has been much debated . . .

[halfslow]

This is wonderful.
Black powder velocities with a case full of powder.
Looks like I can stop using Pyrodex altogether.

[jdgabbard]

I know that trailboss is bulky, and it could be useful for light target loads for small framed shooters... But with the cost of it, I see no need in switching over from unique or bullseye...

[Boz330]

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Thanks Rugerman, I sure couldn't find that.


Bob

[GrizzLeeBear]

Notice they say that jacket is ok, not that I'd wanna use it, but it has been much debated . . .

It was much debated because when IMR first came out with it, they only had cast boolits data (which is what it was originally designed for). When asked for loading data for something they have not done any testing for, powder companies will almost always say "Don't do it."
I think they are responding to a lot of customer requests for reduced jacketed loads with it. Many of their cast loads have starting loads at around 50% case full and go up to around 75%. Some of the starting loads have velocities around 500 - 600 fps which is ok for cast, but would risk a stuck bullet with jacketed. With the jacketed loads the starting (minimum) load is 70% case full which keeps the velocity up around 1,000 fps. I'm sure they did this to eliminate the possibility of a stuck bullet.
I think it would be neat to have "22 mag" type Trail Boss loads to go along with regular .223, .22-250, etc. loads for woodchucks, etc. Use the regular loads for the ones way out there and use the "22 mag" loads for the ones inside 100 yds.

[TAWILDCATT]

why would you use reduced loads with jacket bullets.I load 30/06 with 311291 and red dot 13.5 gr.and get 1680 fts and 1 inch at 100 yds.all my pistol loading is lead.I do not load any hot loads,and don't have magnums,dont want them.my big gun is 45 colt. I know the 06 will kill a deer at 100 yds.and my 30/30 will with same bullet.:coffee:

[NHlever]

I haven't tried Trailboss yet, and may not.......... perhaps others feel that way too, and that is the reason for more load info being developed. I seem to be pretty well served by the old standards, Unique, 2400, IMR4227, and the relatively new Titegroup. I haven't used Bullseye recently either, but I would if I had some I guess. It seems I have far too many different kinds of powder on the shelf now, and some of them are kind of redundant so I'm trying to cut down a bit........ One of the things I did to meet that goal is to go out, and buy a can of Re7, and PowerPistol which I didn't have.......... that should help! :D

[Artful]

why would you use reduced loads with jacket bullets.

Some of us do it because we shoot thru suppressors that can't be cleaned, so we can't get the lead out easily. :cry:

My next 30 cal. suppressor will be cleanable.
:cbpour: :bigsmyl2:

[geargnasher]

The concept of a bulky, light, reduced-load powder is great, but I don't think TB has achieved what we wanted in some cases. For example, in .45 Colt (probably THE best application for such a powder, if it worked like it should) the pressure/velocity curve is screwy: Max load with 250 grain boolit is 5.8 grains for 727 fps and 12,700 PSI, where a max load of Autocomp gets 923 fps for only a 500 PSI increase. I only compare these two due to the units both being in PSI. Starting loads show the same low velocity/high pressure for TB. The only way you get pressures like that and pitiful velocity is if your powder is very spikey, building all of it's pressure early and dropping off dramatically before the boolit clears the barrel. If I wanted pressures that high for plinking velocities I'd use Bullseye or Titewad and save money.

If I were to make a suggestion to a powder manufacturer's R&D department I would lobby IMR to develop a version of Unique that was exactly double the volume with the same or slightly slower burn rate, that would be useful with cast boolits in just about every cartridge in existence.

'Til then, I'll keep using HS6, and also Longshot with filler.

Gear

[303Guy]

Hey - I didn't find any Trail Boss data on that first link but I did find "Lonely Housewives"!:mrgreen:


'Til then, I'll keep using HS6, and also Longshot with filler.What filler do you use? I've started experimenting with fillers. For now, I'm getting real pleased with 4350 and filler - I am a little scared of the reduced slow powder SEE effect but my filler raises the pressure, so maybe I'm safe. Don't know until the gun blows up! Hence my interest in Trail Boss.

[zuke]

No filler in Trail Boss. 15 grain's is just about 2/3 of a 45-70 case.

[PAT303]

The reason behind Trail Boss was to have a powder that cannot cause SSE and cannot be double charged.It was not made to replace another powder or load.I'm going to switch to TB because it gives above average accuracy and I like the idea of filling the case,it's very easy to loose 10grns of red dot in a 303-308-30/06-8x57 case.It is also made in Oz and I like to give my hard earned to an Oz company. Pat

[jandbn]

I’m questioning the use of max loads of Trail Boss using Hodgdon’s 70% “formula”. And by all means, please tell me if I am still “wet behind the ears”. As an example of a questionable use of the formula, consider the voluminous 45 Colt case. Without specifically looking at other cartridges that have similar case volume and charge volume ratio, I would assume this could also apply to like cartridges. (As an FYI, I have been using TB in a 45 Ruger Bisley – the wife really liked ‘em. I also did some pressure interpolation of 454 Casull TB loads prior to using some culled 325 grain LFNPB’s with TB in a Ruger Bisley.)

Here is an example of a scenario: A shooter with a 45 Colt revolver (or clone there of) decides he/she is going to start reloading for it. The shooter has heard good things about Trail Boss from other shooters and as part of the example, has also heard that a 280 grain LFNGC is an accurate bullet in a couple other shooters Colt clones. (I know, a GC is not necessary but bear with me as I used one for measurement purposes.) The shooter, now a new reloader, does not see a load in Hodgdon’s Reloading Data Center for the 280 LFNGC but reads Hodgdon’s IMR TRAIL BOSS REDUCED LOADS FOR RIFLE AND PISTOL (http://hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf). The reloader will start reloading at 70% of the Max charge that was determined by Hodgdon’s formula.

By Hodgdon’s definition, a Max load of TB is partially defined as a load for which they (Hodgdon) do not list a load in their Reloading Data Center. Another portion of the definition when a load isn’t listed is how to measure for the Max load and calculate the Start load. (The following four paragraphs are Verbatim from Hodgdon’s IMR TRAIL BOSS REDUCED LOADS FOR RIFLE AND PISTOL http://hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf. See bolded text for the applicable definition which the new reloader will adhere to.)

Listed below we show a few examples of such loads throughout the Reloading Data Center, but the fun doesn’t stop there. If you don’t see Trail Boss data for your favorite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it’s simple to follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications:

1) Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to the mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is you maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly save to use!

2) Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load.

3) Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!

Using Hodgdon’s Formula in one of my 45 Colt Starline cases @ 1.275 long with a 280 grain LFNGC, the Max charge is 9.7 grains. 70% of the Max charge is 6.8 grains. In the scenario, the new reloader is completely satisfied with the starting charge weight because that is how Hodgdon said to calculate a Start load of TB and the reloader doesn’t bother to compare and interpret the load data on Reloading Data Center website.

As an FYI, the Reloading Data Center website shows TB loads for the standard Colt 45 cartridge for Colt and clone revolvers as follows:

230 LRNFP Min 5.5 grains-9,100 PSI/Max 6.5 grains-12,400 PSI
250 LRNFP Min 4.5 grains-8,800 PSI/Max 5.8 grains-12,700 PSI

The max PSI for any standard 45 Colt load listed on the Reloading Data Center website is 13,700 (max CUP pressure was 14,000). From what I gather, SAAMI max pressure specs for the standard 45 Colt cartridge is 14,000 PSI as measured with a piezo-electric transducer, or 15,900 CUP as measured via copper crusher. As mentioned above, 70% of the computed Max charge for the 280 LFNGC is 6.8 grains. Just for comparison purposes only using the 250 LRNFP to show an estimated progression of pressure vs. increased charge weight, a 1.3 grain increase from 4.5 to 5.8 increased the pressure 3,900 PSI. This equates to 3000 PSI increase per 1 grain of TB. In other words, 6.8 grains of TB under the 250 LRNFP would approximate a pressure of 15,700 PSI. Again, for comparison purposes only and generalizing with 454 Casull TB loads listed on the Reloading Data Center website, average pressure increase per grain for all TB loads listed is 5,100+ CUP per grain. Average PSI increase for the Reloading Data Center 45 Colt TB loads is 2600+. Keeping in mind the scenario of a new reloader loading a 6.8 grain Starting load of TB under the 30 grain heavier LFNGC in a Colt or clone and I think there may be room for trouble. Or am I “still wet behind the ears” and misinterpreted Hodgdon’s “IMR TRAIL BOSS REDUCED LOADS FOR RIFLE AND PISTOL”?